>this after 7 years of kicking Gaulish assHow the fuck did Caesar do it?
>>65238989Believe it or not, ol' GJC actually wrote a book about it, with all the juicy details. You should read it sometime, absolutely gripping stuff.
>>65238989so we all agree that this was a genocide, right?Ceasar targeting specific tribes on the basis of their tribal affiliation, killing all of the men and selling all surviving women and children into slavery for the specific purpose of making sure that tribe no longer exists meets the necessary requirements for that term in everyone's opinion and not just mine, right?
>>65239283It's not really genocide if by the end of the wars, half of his army were Gaulish auxiliaries and he was planning to plant Gaulish lackeys in the Roman senate. His actions were pretty much par for the course in ancient Roman warfare but what Caesar exceeded in, and why he was able to conquer so much with zero support from the Roman state, was that he excelled in divide and conquer strategies by constantly making allies with tribes like the Aeudi and Remi while extending amnesty and military alliance to former enemies like the Treveri. In the book there is even an instance of a civil war breaking out between members of a tribe who wanted to resist Caesar and members who wanted to join him and get their share of the booty. Probably the closest historical comparison is Cortez in Mexico, but if Cortez had a huge well-trained army and wasn't so outnumbered.He was actually pretty notable for an ancient general in his willingness to grant amnesty to former enemies. It served him well strategically during the Gaulish Wars but was what probably led him to being assassinated so easily.
>>65239322hiring quislings isn't going to bring back the cultures and peoples that were extinguished in the massacres, He organised and personally led the extermination of entire tribes, that's genocide. The fact that other, unrelated gallic tribes were subsequently annexed into the Republic (or what was left of it by that point) doesn't change the nature of the crime, and neither does the fact that it was standard operating procedure for most organised states (including amongst the Gauls themselves) at the time
>>65239322>he was planning to plant Gaulish lackeys in the Roman senateWorth noting that a lot of those were cisalpine gauls that had long been romanized, not the transalpine gauls he just conquered.
>>65239283Yes>>65239322>His actions were pretty much par for the course in ancient warfareFtfyThe concept of genocide being wrong was invented by European Christians
>>65239349gaul is gaul though
>>65238989Celts basically lost against every invader ever. Latins, Huns, Germans, Anglos, etc. They were D-list warriors.
>>65239187>bookfucking nerd I need a podcast. did he have a podcast?
>>65238989Reminder that this painting is subversive propaganda.
>>65240187He did, but the only release we got is in midi format so you need a soundcard from 1992 that isn't in production anymore to actually hear anything intelligible.
>>65240187>welcome to a new episode of 'The War in Gaul', where we talk about the amazing military exploits of Gaius Julius Caesar>Im your host, Gaius Julius Caesar and this episode is all about Druids>but first a word from our sponsor and friend of the cast, the Capitoline Brotherhood of Millers
>>65238989>When in doubt, build a wall>If that doesn't work, build another wall>Somehow it worked and solidified Caesar of one of history's greatest generals
>>65240217Sensible chuckle .gif
>>65238989If you read Commentarii de Bello Gallico, he basically rode around with his legions and Gallic allies winning every battle and siege, constantly putting down rebellions the entire time. The anti-Roman Gauls all died or were beaten down enough to stop rebelling. He destroyed entire tribes. The Romans were just tactically superior to the Gauls in every single way, and the Gauls just couldn't find a way to win on or off the field of battle. Having an army of highly-trained professional soldiers with mail armor fighting mostly naked tribesmen might not guarantee you win every fight, but I bet it sure helped a lot. A lot of his battles involved just marching forward and relying on sheer qualitative superiority to win the day. Caesar avoided doing stupid shit like outrunning his logistics or getting ambushed, and that's all he needed to do.
>>65239337Who cares?
>>65239283No, because slaughtering them like animals the women and children too would be genocide, which I believe he did only twice, and those in special circumstances where they killed roman citizens.
>>65240503>with mail armor>mostly naked tribesmen The lorica hamata was a derivative of the Celtic/Gallic armor styles. They had plenty of armor too.
>>65240181But they had heart!
>>65240503>Having an army of highly-trained professional soldiers with mail armor fighting mostly naked tribesmenGaulish armies at this time were more like medieval armies than "mobs of naked tribesmen". They were led by a nucleus of warrior aristocrats and their followers who would have been equipped with steel armour, mail coats and longswords, often serving as cavalry. Each aristocrat then had his own household retinue of similarly equipped warriors and then an even larger body of freemen who owed him military service as part of their client-patron relationship. It was also very common for Gaulish warrior aristocrats to do stints of mercenary service in the Mediterranean world as far off as Ptolemaic Egypt so they would have been familiar with Greek or Roman tactics (indeed the Helvetii are described as fighting in phalanx formation). And don't forget that the Gauls had destroyed entire Roman armies before, had sacked Rome and even killed an Antigonid king after routing his army. They definitely weren't some mass of Zulu tribesmen.We don't know much about how Gaulish tribes were internally organized but it seems they were able to levy manpower is something resembling a draft given by estimates of how quickly oppida were built and how many manhours they required. Some oppida had dedicated arms-producing factory complexes that would have been capable of arming a conscripted levy.
>>65239283Yes
>>65239283>genocideBy modern standards, perhaps? And only the tribes that fought him, those who were allied with Rome not only survived unscathed, they were rewarded and prospered. IIRC 1 millions (out of an estimated 4 millions) Gauls died. Basically compare the fates of Avaricum and Durocorturum.But it's kind of silly to use the genocide label when talking about antiquity, the mentality was just too different.
>>65241900If what Caesar did was a genocide then what Han China did thousands of years before Rome was actually the first genocide. Or genocides really.
>>65241847>HeuneburgThose were German Celts, not French ones.
>>65242231>german/french>when talking about the Celtsnigger why?
>>65240217Verus Romanus panus pro verus Romanus civis.
>>65239187>all the juicy detailsDoes it include how he was buggered by a greek pirate and his crew while a prisoner in his teens and he enjoyed it?
>>65238989>>65239187Play Never Second in Rome and you'll know. It goes through the whole war in detail and you take part.>>65239283>>65239322He killed 1 million and enslaved 1 million.It was a lot of genocides.
>>65240217I could legit picture this in my mind being read by this character.
>>65242467Or just watch history civilis.
>>65242506He's gay though
>>65242506he's not just a fag but a passive faghe'd have been over the rock back in the good old days when we still honored the morals that made Rome
>>65242584>when we still honored the morals that made RomeCan you even speak latin?
>>65239187>corn supply was securedThrilling narrative.
>>65242592scribe paulum, non loquens
>>65239283>so we all agree that this was a genocide, right?if Napoleon was born today people would be complaining about his greatness
>>65242619bar bar bar bar lol
>>65242599This but unironically
>>65242722My master's degree in that dead language compels me to call you a nigger. Be nice to the mute.
>>65242035>then what Han China did thousands of years before Rome was actually the first genocide. Or genocides really.I doubt anyone would seriously deny the genocidal nature of Chinese history. It's relevance to Caesar might be questioned though.
>>65241638>>65241847>Trying to gloss over the fact that mail was only used by the elite of Gallic society, probably only 5% of all the men in an army that was facing Caesar's legions, if you was being really generous.LMAO
>>65239283Kinda? Though the numbers of deaths were absolutely made up by him and likely 10x lower at minimum.In any case, who cares? Genocides happened all the time in those times. The fall of carthage was a genocide per example.
>>65242625People complained a LOT about Napoleon in his own time
>>65240181They just weren't united into a state so would lose in the long run. They actually resisted harder and for longer than most of the peoples the romans conquered.
>>65243889Depending on the era that is perfectly applicable to medieval warfare.
>>65242625He was kind of a retard though. He was capable but he seriously thought he could go up against all of europe and win just because he btfod the germoids a couple times during an era when 90% of them were shit at fighting and used to surrendering fast because no one cared whether Count Wilhelm or Poopdorf or Duke Wilhelm of Shartzdig was the one ruling.When it came to countries that actually resisted, he couldn't even fully defeat a weakened Spain despite already having armies inside when he dethroned the royals, and yet he seriously thought beating Russia and later england would be somehow feasible.Some of the shit he did would become useful later on to more constructive societies, but at the end of the day he was just yet another egomaniac that tried to take over europe and only achieved causing the deaths of millions and making their country go back to the previous decaying system for a while more.
>>65239283Brennus did it first
>>65239337lol, cry harder
>>65240181That was the strategy, let them conquer you and then they die from the local cuisine
>>65239283>Nooooo, not muh based heckin' barbarianinos!
>>65242625Mao killed even more, though.
>>65242625all napoleon ended up doing was decimating the population of his own country devestated and setting the stage for germans to assfuck france in the future.
>>65243909Napoleon was the Hitler of his day. Time heals all wounds. After a century people stopped giving a shit about Napoleon. I don't see Hitler being rehabilitated so quickly though, he angered the Jews.
>>65238989Isn't it obvious?
>Pompey Magnus. I have a question concerning your friend and co-Consul. The Darling of Venus, Gaius Julius Caesar.>Why does his chair remain empty? Why does he not come home? His illegal war is over. Gaul is long since on its knees. Why does Caesar keep his brave soldiers from their families and friends? >For eight long years, he has gorged himself like a wolf on the blood of Gaul, and thereby made himself monstrously rich! Why?! >Why does he ply the mob with races and fights, and gaudy feasts? Why has he paid the debts of every reprobate fool in this Senate house?! Why?! >I'll tell you why he does these things. He wants to buy himself a crown. He wants to destroy the Republic and rule Rome AS A BLOODY TYRANT!>Therefore, I move, that Caesar's governorship in Gaul be terminated immediately, that his armies be disbanded and that he be recalled to Rome to answer charges of illegal warfare, theft, bribery, and treason!
>>65245220Why was Cato such a hater?
>>65243561Because anytime this is brought up everyone makes a big deal about how it was the first genocide in history while the half dozen now extinct genomes littering central China’s historical bed 2000 years before Rome ever existed are conspicuously unmentioned
>>65244542I don’t see Hitler being rehabilitated because he was actually pretty shit at warfare and his only accomplishment was deficit spending and lying until the Germany economy could either collapse or start ww2 which he then proceeded to lose badly by declaring war on the USA for literally no reason
>>65239283Yes, although as more than one person has pointed out, compared to the fate of the Carthaginians or the Samnites (who were Roman citizens with full civil rights mind you), the Gauls as a whole got off lightly.>>65239322>It's not really genocide if by the end of the wars, half of his army were Gaulish auxiliaries and he was planning to plant Gaulish lackeys in the Roman senate.That's not the genocide part, the genocide part was>wiping out 250,000 Helvetii and then enslaving the surviving 100,000 in a single day>"nearly annihilating the entire population and name of the Nervii">executing the tribal leaders of the Vanetti and selling all members of the tribe into slavery>ordering cavalry to literally ride down 400,000 German civilians trying to escape across the Rhine>exterminating the Eburones quite literally down to the livestock, so completely that the tribe vanished from all historical records after that point>slaughtering the entire 40,000 population of Avaricum>refusing to allow the civilian population of Alesia safe passage or even sale into slavery and leaving them to starve to death in no man's landThese were all things Caesar proudly admitted to in his own writings. He later used the profits from looted wealth and slave trading to finance his war against the Senate that ultimately brought down the Republic so it didn't even benefit the Roman people in the end.>>65242625Napoleon was (rightfully) shat on for being a bloodthirsty retard in his own lifetime. One need only read of the fate of the Vendeans or the Spaniards to see that Jacobinism was a fucking disaster for France and everyone around it.>>65245246Cato saw Caesar for the blood-soaked would-be tyrant that he was and made no attempt to conceal it when denouncing him.
>>65240503>Caesar avoided doing stupid shit like outrunning his logistics or getting ambushed, and that's all he needed to do.>avoided getting ambushed>avoided getting ambushedAn impossible feat even for modern militaries.I need to read JuliC
>>65245246He was a staunch moralist and Roman "morals" were all about maintaining the privileges and power of the aristocracy. As a populist, Caesar was a dangerous threat to the established order.
>>65241847>steel armourWhere did Gaul aquire steel technology.When did the Gaul enter the iron age?
>>65245471/hist/let detected. Not only did Gauls have steel they were basically masters of ironworking, with their iron being extremely valuable and better than Roman ironworking (though Romans had better steel as they had a quenching process Gauls didn’t) which was one of their primary trade goods which was traded across Europe and into Africa and the near east. What the Gauls had were as noted a feudalistic system of artisans with a warrior elite, including some of the best metalworkers and blacksmiths of the era. What the Gauls did not have was a centralized authority and any ability to coordinate industry on a large scale. As a result, even though Gaelic armor and weapons were usually far superior among their elite warrior class compared to Roman gear, every Roman soldier had metal armor and weapons, while most Gauls were not armed and armored in artisan blades and maile, they were peasants with a spear and a shield and maybe some cloth armor and if they were part of the elite’s retinue maybe some metal armor. Armor that the Romans outright copied, btw, as Gauls invented chainmail. Steel is actually a very old discovery, and it was known that steel was very strong and harder than iron, the issue was that the techniques of the day did not allow for controlling the carbon content added to the steel in a reliable way and alloys were poorly understood so most steel was specialty usage or very soft because otherwise it would be far too brittle.
>>65245380It’s called spamming scouts everywhere and it’s extremely simple and easy to do and military commanders just forget or decide they don’t need to do it but Caesar just kept constantly sending out Gaelic and Roman scouts out everywhere. He also maintained very good alliances with what amounted to half of Gaul so even in instances where he didn’t have scouts he was getting reliable and trustworthy information from his allies which he actually listened to.
>>65245276>everyone makes a big deal about how it was the first genocide in historyNAYRT but so are you; genocidal warfare began when Cromagnons wiped out Neanderthals
>>65245326t. CiceroThe Republic had already fallen long before Caesar came to power, he just made it official.
