How are large, bureaucratic, technological armies designed for large scale maneuvers and combined arms combat supposed to deal with insurgents that don’t identify themselves and blend in with civilian populations?
>>65255599If only there was some kind of conflict from the last 20 or so years we could collect data from. Somewhere where there was some kind of insurgency. Somewhere that had a significant asymmetric tech gap between a large well funded military and guerilla fighters hiding amongst the populace? HmmmWell, I guess we'll never know the answer to your question OP, good luck!
>>65255599by blowing them up israeli style
>>65255599The simple and ugly answer is you find the most likely to survive faction in the area, and have them do your dirty work.Case in point, the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan, warlords and militias who operated and behaved just like the Taliban. Things started to fall apart when the U.S. wanted to raise a non existent modern state, and tried to throw money at it until they acted right
>>65255633Fighting a counter insurgency and ethnic cleansing are two different things with different goals. If you are fighting an insurgency you likely have other motives that make genocide/expulsion not an option.
>>65255621and from what I checked the technologically advanced state walked away empty handed>>65255637Iraq and Afghanistan seems to have broke the American's belief that hearts and minds and nation building is an impossibility when there is a largely forgotten example of a very successful attempt at just that thing: the Philippines roughly 7 years and the US was largely able to pacify 300k sq km of islands on the other side of the Pacific and they did it by using the carrot that is hearts and minds but also did not hesitate to use the stick could that fly with today's optics?probably not, but it's telling that the US's best example of bringing a nation they occupied into compliance had there being for every piece of modern infrastructure built or donation given to the benefit of a village there was a grain storage or a village's farming fields razed to the ground under suspect of the village harboring guerillas and when they were not doing that they were conducting brutal and underhanded hunts of guerrilla leaders and to great effect looking at the results and you could then bring up how Japan's invasion may have something to do with their gratefulness to which I will then point out that that occured 30 years after the fact
>>65255712Afghanistan could have been a simple easy win bush was just a retard. First only one war at a time, don't do Iraq until Afghanistan is over. Two bring the taliban to the table after their defeat, have them part of the new government in some capacity, maybe give them a few seats in parliament, negotiate. Also bring back the monarchy for the country to rally behind make it a constitutional monarchy. This isn't hindsight either all of this was advice from people on the ground that was completely ignored.
>>65255712>and from what I checked the technologically advanced state walked away empty handedExamine your definitions and you'll notice you're mixing them. You've redefined Maoist insurgency into begging the invaders to be merciful.The Iraqi surge proved modern style "kill them so fast they can't organize" COIN works.The Forest Brothers are a good example of how Soviet style COIN works.Basically, guerillas normally lose hard; the 20th century was a golden combo of diesel engines for logistics+guns/HE for power+no/shitty sensors, computers or forensics + a cold war resulting in reliable third party support, giving them a brief moment of relevance that's since ended. Like the boomers of the same period, insurgency fans were living in a pampered world so good, they thought they were doing well because of their own work.
>>65255712>the Philippines It's not forgotten. It's out of the question to modern morality (unless you're Russian or Israeli lol). Read the primary accounts of how they cleared villages. In GWOT, Americans would track down individual terrorists in a town, get witnesses, fingerprints, phone tracking and that sort of thing, and then track down all their buddies. In the Philippines? They surrounded the whole town and burnt it down, shooting everyone as they ran out of their burning homes. Only the kids (the dividing line between life and death seems to have been about age 10) were allowed to live.Anyone can beat an insurgency like that, especially with modern sensors where hiding in the jungle is no longer an option. The question is do you want to? And if the answer is yes, you don't need infantry with modern technology, simply nerve gas the place like Saddam did.
>>65255633What do you use now that they're wary of pagers?
>>65255846Pretty sure the Israeli's tried to do the same thing but with walkie talkies but Hezbollah got extremely paranoid and ditched the ones they were using at the time
>>65255712>The PhillipinesWas handled pretty much as >>65255637Said. An already existing colonial state that had little issue helping the U.S. subjugate its rural population to maintain power.
>>65255901No, the walkie-talkie attack was successful, as it happened immediately after the pager attack - Mossad knew they'd switch to walkie-talkies first, and had already prepared the suppliers. It caused nearly as many casualties as the pager incident iirc. Since then, Hezbollah has relied entirely on face-to-face communications, using runners like an 18th century army.
>>65255599Insurgencies are 99% political. You fight insurgencies mainly by political and socioeconomic means. Negate their basis for rebelling and you win the "war".>how?Most insurgencies are due to these factors:1. Political beliefs2. Religion3. Ethnicity4. Poor people Essentially, all can be overcome by propaganda, education, inclusivity and investing in infrastructure. Fat happy people don't want to rebel. Tamping down hard only suppresses the insurgency for a while, only to fuel worse ones in the future.
>>65256396So it’s impossible to win against religious fundamentalists and other fanatics?
>>65258111You can, but you have to be willing to use genocide as a weapon.It worked for Islam, after all.
>>65258111Not at all.Let's think about Islamists.>most secular Arab leaders were/are dickheads in their own right>there's sectarian violence and minorities so even outside of the insurgency angle there's going to be civil wars and ethnic cleansing/genocide>Iran will support fuckery with money and weapons if it hurts Israel or the US>the economies don't give the people a lot of opportunities so becoming a Jihadist is seen as a way to make a living>rich as fuck oil Sheiks can finance terror and export wahhabism in the pre-MBS era>insurgents will cross porous borders and hide in neighboring countries whenever close to defeat, geographically adjacent dialects of Arabic are sort of mutually intelligible so it hardly impacts their livelihood>tolerant Western countries don't tell mosques to stop teaching extremist shit and gathering donations for jihadism>da Joos!And long as the secular alternative isn't a bunch of sadistic morons, and you don't have a clown car of factors helping the fundamentalist cause, your main concern is having a stable country, educated people and avoiding giving people reasons to join movements.
>>65255599>force elites to do your bidding>kill elites who don't>hunt and kill insurgents through friendly elite networks and secret police actions>destroy any guerrillas in pitched battles"Counterinsurgency" has been the most common form of warfare throughout human history. And they've all been dealt with the same way up until the modern era.
>>65255599That's a man, isn't it?
>>65261441Unfortunately just a common Hue phenotype.Despite what you hear about Brazilian women, a shit ton of them just look exactly like their brothers.
>>65258321>your main concern is having a stable country, educated people and avoiding giving people reasons to join movements.That was literally pre-revolution Iran
>>65255599Ay yooo ill take 5 grams500 pesatas
>>65255642Then don't get involved in a "war" you can't possibly win
