Feudalism was closely tied to the military importance of mounted knights. New technologies and tactics reduced their dominance and therefore directly weakened the political power of aristocratic families. Right now we see that drones reduce the military importance of conventional military units. Russian and Jewish forces struggle against plastic toys with warheads assembled in decentralized cottage industries. I therefore propose the theory that home-made drones will end the state's monopoly on violence which will eventually bring an end to the state form that emerged in the cold war. The modern state will become a thing of the past, not only as a form of human organization, but also as a form of organized warfare.
I had these same thoughts anon, I dont know how democratisation of violenece is not being talked about more
>>65256925I can see where you are coming from. but a centralized state would still have an advantage in drone production and employment.in a way this mimics the early adoption of firearms. their production was often quite simple and crude allowing for decentralized home manufacturing.but centralized states where far more able to mass and employ them successfully.what we are more likely to see is a blooming of small and middling drone makers entering the market and offering their products to statesthe end to the monopoly of violence is just retardation on a stickThe monopoly doesn't just mean the ability to kill but the ability to force others by any and all other means.me having a drone won't end the tax monopoly, it won't end the jail monopoly, it won't end the drivers license monopoly, it won't end the regulatory framework monopoly. never mind allow others to impose theirseven in borderland failed narco states it will only allow the cartels to impose more violence not to dismantle the state. because in the end they still depend on the states infrastructure to carry out their trade.the only thing it does is give "confused men witha knife/gun" a new toy
>>65256925>Feudalism was closely tied to the military importance of mounted knights.Mounted kinghts came hundreds of years after medieval Europe and all its kinghips, aristocracy, etc had already established themselves.>New technologies and tactics reduced their dominance and therefore directly weakened the political power of aristocratic families. That is not what happened at all and aristocrats ran pretty much the whole show long after the death of knights and introduction of mass levies.Etc., etc.The idea drones would disintegrate modern states is just as absurd and misplaced. Yes, if all the serfs "went on strike", feudalism would be dead in a month... but they did not. If every non-aristocrat attacked the aristocracy they'd be toast no matter how big a residence they lived in and how well-made their armor was... but they did not.And the idea that modern people would all start mass-producing drones and create a lawless El Dorado from their cushy modern life in doing so is the exact same sort of nonsense.
>>65256925You know a state can produce drones too, on a far greater scale than any non-state actor. You want a direct comparison, look at Myanmar. As soon as the regime mass produced Drones and integrated them into their small unit tactics, the rebel advance has been haltes and everywhere besides Rakhine they got pushed back.Israel has not even failed, they are still slowly progressinf with their expansion, just slower than anticipated because most of the Israeli infantry has no real combat experience as they always had the Air force do the job for them. But eventually they will get drones too eventually they will develop countermeasures, what is Hezbollah supposed to do then?
adding to my previous postyou can drone the guys checking if you've got your permitsbut than the state can just drone youyou are gone the state still has people to sendit's not a good trade for the state but they can afford to run repeat exchanges for a very long time because they have centralized resourcesyou can't afford to run repeat exchanges because you are deadothers might be willing to run the same exchange and they might be willing to keep going for longer than the state can keep going but you and those others don't know if that's the case since they don't have centralized resources so you can run the exchange for it to achieve nothing so why risk your life to do so?even if you are super dedicated others probably aren't so again the repeat exchange goes in the favor of the statedrones also fundamentally don't allow you to do much more against the state you already can do with guns.
>>65256925>Russian and Jewish forces struggle against plastic toys with warheads assembled in decentralized cottage industries.I have to point out that the Jews struggled in South Lebanon in the 90s when Hezbollah was a ragtag militia. Israel occupied it in the early 1980s and stayed. Hezbollah emerged and would blow up an Israeli jeep here, an Israeli patrol there, and then an Israeli helicopter would have a mechanical failure and crash and kill another dozen guys. This went on for years until the home front got sick of it and they pulled out. I think the problem is more that they've just overextended themselves in a landscape created by God for hit-and-run attacks.Drones do seem to be giving small states the ability to level the playing field. I think that might be the real trend of the 21st century. You have middle powers that are now able to punch above their weight and fight big states because of drones. I never saw this crappy movie but it's probably not too long before we see weapons like this:https://youtu.be/Pipr6j3jorU
>>65256925>assembled in decentralized cottage industriesOne thing to consider here is that, while drones may be extremely cheap relative to the damage they can inflict, drones also rely on a very long and complex supply chain in terms of components to get to the point where they can be assembled in those decentralized cottage industries. Ivan isn't making computer chips and batteries out of raw materials in his backyard shed, he's just putting together parts that are already ubiquitous in modern society. I the democratization of violence ever reaches the kind of critical level your contemplating, I doubt that those complex supply chains would be able to survive the collapse of the state. Like, I just can't see how you'd be able to keep a chip plant like pic-related operating under conditions of anarchy.Seems to me that what you'd get is a brief period of chaos until the availability of high-tech devices declined enough that the threat of drones abated and the state was able to reimpose its authority once more. This cycle might end up repeating a few times before things stabilized, but I think the ultimate outcome of democratized violence is likely to be a state that devotes more of its energy to keeping the populace comfy enough that few people want to engage in violence against the state, not some kind of utopian stateless society.
>>65256925The nobility stayed in power for centuries after knights stopped dominating the battlefield.
>>65257041That's a somewhat unsettling thing to say in the present tense, anon.Does the local tech-priest know you're posting 38,000 years into the past? You better watch out that the Inquisition doesn't get you for violating causality.
>>65257042You do not differentiate between feudalism and absolute monarchy.the 15th century started the slow weakening of feudal structures in elite politics. Higher nobility went from semi-independent rulers to state elites. The Lower nobility saw a dramatic loss in power as their feudal military obligations became obsolete.
>>65257041>It is the most effective and stable system.The entire point is that it's stable but ineffective and horrible. Only a retard like (you) would look at 40k and go "Wow how good is it that their society has been politically stable but in progressibe technological, social and economic decay for ten millenia!". This observation about stability and inefficiency is broadly historically accurate too. Systems of government that keep a political underclass with an overclass who monopolise weapons and force tend to be very stable (eg the Spartans, feudalism) and last for a long time, but are very inefficient and get fuck all done compared to less stable and more free systems of government (eg Athens, liberal democracy/capitalism).
>>65256925>the streets are wet>it is raining>wet streets bring rain>in future we just need to wet the streets, e.g. with buckets of water, and drought will be a thing of the past, and we will break the monopoly of the utilities companies
It's Vietnam all over again, isn’t it?In Vietnam a mix of guerilla and conventional fighting managed to humble the US, making a lot of people preach the Gospel of the Guerilla as the greatest thing ever (the Vietnamese use of more conventional forces when suitable being quickly forgotten since that's not New and Exciting™). What they forgot was just how much more Vietnam had to bleed than the US to achieve that. Their approach worked in the end, but it's hardly one you'd want to use if you have any real options.Ukraine? With a mix of conventional forces and drones they've managed to bog down the Russians. So people preach the Gospel of the Drone, forgetting the conventional side since that''s not New and Exciting™. But for all the success they've had, they've also had to endure years of terror bombing, smashed infrastructure, and their soldiers being droned. Their approach more or less works, but comes with a cost that means you don't want to go that route if you have any real alternatives.The various forces arrayed against Israel? Somewhat similar, the keep needling Israel but as you may have noticed the Israeli armed forces have been able and are able to cause massive devastation all around.Oh, and a terrorist could easily have strapped a pipe bomb to an RC plane or helicopter back in the eighties...
Continued form >>65257078All in all, drones are probably in a similar spot now as tanks and air-planes were in WW1. The new and shiny stuff that you suddenly had to have to be a serious player. But at the same time the old stuff (artillery, ships, infantry) didn't stop being relevant. And while many an empire crumbled, the overall geopolitical order ticked along much as before. What we're really getting from OP is just adolescent wishful thinking. He's shaking off the authority of his parents, only to find that there's another layer of people telling him what to do: the authority of the state. This makes his teenage rebel soul howl with butthurt, but as it's a thoroughly impotent rage all he can really do to deal with it is to try and imagine some way in which the authority of the state will crumble so he can, finally, be free form the Absolute Tyranny of having to go to school again on Monday morning. Then tart it up with some very, very shallow historical analogues to meet his daily sophistry quota, and here we are.
>>65256925I'm more concerned about the impact of AI. When you've got corporations able to pump out millions of autonomous drones while simultaneously synthesising every bit of information about every person in the country then I dread to think what the consequences will be.
>>65256925Your framework is correct, that the world order forms around the landscape of exclusive right of killing, and technology changes that throughout history. But is is only one group of elite replacing the next.I don't find the conclusion is correct that drones will liberate the civilian of today. Name some group in your community that would 1)prime kids on how drones work, and what can it do 2)train teenagers on how to evaluate, design and make drones while advancing the tactics and operations in a war band, sift through and rank them in tests and competitions and funnel them towards a career 3)rally parents into a party towards securing funds and business relation that for drone and drone production tools, the raw materials/components and made product and services would keep flowing within, in and out of your community no matter the greater political and economic conditions.If you can't, that means you are not in a community and everyone are merely idolizing the stock market, the job market and public education for a future designed for them and has no ties to anyone. Atomized residents won't do shit when technocratic elites using public funds and public traded investment to control the landscape of digital and electronics for their own power. You just love to see more and more software lock, online verification, chip with serial key, kill switch, wifi, camera and microphone being placed even in base model of cars, tools and appliances. All tech company uses the same investment heavy, rug pull model to start their business by offering it cheap at the start to condition their user and supplier into unwarranted loyalty then crank up the heat to cook them alive. And they are about to pull the greatest rug underneath the very public that gave them the public tax funds and public traded investment from stock for their own.
>>65256925>it's another we ignore all the counters to drone warfare being developed episodeso tiring, you retards are already waxing philosophical about fighting the last war>y-yeah but in ukraineukraine is not the standard, two poor shitholes being forced to produce fucktons of drones rather than better, more effective weapons is not the standard, the frontline being slowed to a halt long before drones started becoming so prevalent and causing the implementation of drones to become a priority due to the thin, slow frontline is not the standard.it is not "how wars are fought now"
>>65256946This.
>>65257357>>it's another we ignore all the counters to drone warfare being developed episodein two more weeks we will develop more drone counters, but you are needed on the frontlines now comrade
>>65256925>Right now we see that drones reduce the military importance of conventional military units.Retard take.>I therefore propose the theory that home-made drones will end the state's monopoly on violenceThe only way drones are even effective right now is via mass production and efficiencies of scale that can only be achieved by state action.
>>65256946Aah, but one thing that many states (Israel, america, etc) don't get is that by droning some rando (possibly killing family and neighbours as well in the blast), they are just incentivising the surviving friends, relatives and sympathetic allies of those killed to strike back in a similar manner. If this is performed against a state's own citizens or allies this will also erode their own centralised state as the people end their support or defect to the other side. Violence begets violence.
>>65256925>New technologies and tactics reduced their dominance and therefore directly weakened the political power of aristocratic families.Yeah but no.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compagnie_d%27ordonnanceDevelopment of economy ended value of aristocratic feudal before heavy cavalry became irrelevant military. Aristocracy paid with plot of land was replaced by mercenaries by coin and its compleatly different model making classical feudalism obsolete.
>>65257388>n-noyou're mad lol
>>65256925There is precedent for this in the ancient Greek states. When the pinnacle of military technology is something cheap and widely available, the warrior aristocrat fades away and is replaced with the citizen soldier. This doesn't result in the end of the state but it does result in a significant restructuring.
>>65259614>they are just incentivising the surviving friends, relatives and sympathetic allies of those killed to strike back in a similar manner.yes the complete 1776 will commence again revolution after Ruby Ridge and Wacocertainly not a few loners that commit attacks, get caught in turn.>Violence begets violencethe only violence the drone fags can inflict is drone strikes, strikes they will get wrong as often as the feds.the state can use less violent meanswho would the average citizen side with? the "terrorist" blowing up some random desk jockies and anyone that happensto be near them. or the state that tries to arrest them but will resort to lethal violence.the only reason why drone strikes in the GWOT begotten violence is that you are blowing up near brain dead durkas that live in a honour culture with jack shit going for them.
>>65256925>>65256939It's the opposite. Automation and drones mean that small elite cadres with expensive equipment will be able to mop the floor with mass mobilized armies of plebs. This is just the stirrup 2.0. It will make elites more powerful in the long run.
>>65260005It also misses that new technology makes mass surveillance, propaganda, and censorship easier.Those with money have all the advantages here. The plebs cannot build their own drones. They only have access to the extent they are allowed to or can smuggle them in. But powerful countries have really good import controls as shown by firearms import restrictions, so realistically randoms won't be able to get their hands in equipment nearly as good as the state.Plus, civvie drones with a but of HE and no SHORAD is going to get BTFO by people operating with SHORAD, EW, autonomous spotters linked to autonomous batteries. The gap is only narrow because the technology is new. Give it 30 years.The average citizen is about to become irrelevant to military success, both as conscripts and as economic labor due to automation and specialization. That's precisely what you see with the stirrup, the rise of the knight, and the rise of feudalism. Already all the rich nations have switched from armies of citizen soldiers to armies of career specialists, plus some short term young labor. As Gibbon wrote of the late Roman Republic (where the switch to professional armies also eroded pleb power and led to autocracy), the move to professional armies: "elevated war into an art, and degraded it into a trade."
>>65260005>the only reason why drone strikes in the GWOT begotten violence is that you are blowing up near brain dead durkas that live in a honour culture with jack shit going for them.And because the US was propping up a failed state, so they had to be on the ground as targets. Extensive drone strikes elsewhere, where there wasn't a ground force to attack in reach, have only produced occasional, small terrorist attacks in response. There is no way to respond in most cases. And note that US fatalities in Afghanistan for many years were incredibly small, like a dozen or two. The problem wasn't US violence leading to reprisals that were seriously damaging US forces, but that the Afghan state remained completely incompetent and shitty so that it couldn't survive without US strikes.
>>65260021Depends on whether or not they can build a working AI, but so far it looks like they can't.
>>65257438Orders are given by one man, which means that one drone is enough if the attacker knows where he lives and where he works.
>>65260075There's no LLMslop involved. The Western concept goes like this:-launch a swarm of 200 drones from trucks-one team of pilots oversees the swarm-another team of infantry checks and mops up anything the swarm misses-repeat
>>65256925Feudalism was killed by mercantilism because markets grew to the point they could change the course of nations and the merchants wanted that power recognized.>I therefore propose the theory that home-made drones will end the state's monopoly on violenceWe are in a limited window where the people could take on a military and get a military victory but counters are being developed constantly and that window won't last long.>bring an end to the state form that emerged in the cold warHow do you think states fundimentally changed after 1944? They remained mostly the same with a little more wealth equality because the ruling class feared the millions of combat vets that had returned from the war.By the 80s the vets were no longer a threat so we saw the fear replaced by greed and we got neoliberalism.Moving forward there are 2 options, the surveillance states the elite are currently building being used to prevent organization and surpess the population or drastic wealth redistribution to return to post war equality.It's clear which the elite would prefer and they are seeing a lot of success distracting the population with culture war bullshit.
>>65256953>what is Hezbollah supposed to do then?Rely on Iran. States won't cease to exist but if other states support rebels, these rebels will be more successful.>most of the Israeli infantry has no real combat experienceThey should send their mohels, they know more about violence than anyone else
>>65260021>stirrupNot that it affects your very correct point, but the importance of the stirrup is vastly overstated
>>65256925What museum?
>Home made dronesBuddy, they are circuit boards, cameras and motors. This is just another iteration of industrial warfare.
>>65264132Royal Armories Museum in Leeds
>>65259614are you 12?
>>65260005>e only reason why drone strikes in the GWOT begotten violence is that you are blowing up near brain dead durkas that live in a honour culture with jack shit going for them.Actually, you have a point: in spite of being one of the first widespread uses of drone warfare, the Taliban didn't collapse just because they got droned over and over again. Drones can obliterate, but they can't occupy.
>>65260054You have it backwards, the Afghanistan government under US provisions was the one using drones to bomb the Taliban; Talis had to resort to suicide bombs because they couldn't secure the resources to make drones on their own in any useful numbers.In this case, it was the drone users that lost to warm-blooded infantry.
