>>65259633
There's already a new seeker revision in the works, so it won't go unupgraded in any event.

>>65259633
Depends on how drones evolve over time. For now, it's got a substantial advantage in time from "oh shit, tank, 2000 meters" to a hit than current FPVs, but there's no promise that it's going to stay that way.

>>65259633
>Is there any reason why it shouldn't (unupgraded) see service into 2050 and beyond?
Yes, the countermeasures invented in 2029 and the armour upgrades unlocked by material science advances in 2034 will render weapons like this obsolete.
The hard-light chassis/force-effector defence technology of 2047 will make all forms of explosives and projectiles irrelevant anyway.

t. time traveller

>>65259633
>unupgraded
ATGMs that can't do NLOS belong in the trash heap. A dedicated, heavy, purpose-built anti-tank system that needs you to sit there and watch at what you want to kill when you've got dozens of drones in the sky is just awful.

>>65259756
Who's gonna tell him?

>>65259778
Just the fact that you're comparing it to company- or battalion-level weapons instead of RPG-7 or NLAW says everything I need to know about how bad it sweeps the field in its actual role.

>>65259821
hella expensive tho
an FPV drone will have way more range for much the same lethality, lower weight and much lower unit cost

>>65259827
It'll also take a lot longer to get out of the rucksack, assemble (because you're not walking around with those propellers stuck to a rigid frame right next to your ammo cans) and guide onto target. And they still have the sit-and-stare problem, exacerbated by their low speed compared to missiles. Again, tech develops, but for now, those limits push FPVs further up the org chart than the level Javelin operates at.

>>65259827
>for much the same lethality
FPV drones have like a 20% hit rate at best, take around 40 minutes to achieve a kill and in the very worst cases have taken +40 drones to kill a single MBT.
A Javelin takes ~1 minute for a kill and has something like a 0.9 chance of destroying an MBT.

>>65259679
HEH, I see you're a weaker time traveller. Modern brahmin channellers guide FPS through samsara to strike the armor before it even leaves the factory.

>t. knower

>>65259829
I'm walking around with an XL pizza box molle'd to my daypack and my glasses on my forehead ready to go in about 10 to 20 seconds
I have a spotter/nanny/schlepper with another three disassembled drones
you need three men to set up a firing position in about 3 to 5 minutes, you have maybe two reloads (but realistically you just have one because they're expensive as fucking fuck so unless hattalion command says they want a blocking position...)
we are not the same

>>65259829
with a few surveillance drones nearby a tank isnt getting anywhere near a trench, ukraine has been hunting them inside fucking depot were zigger repair them

>>65259834
>FPS
first person saaaaaaaars
What horror war makes of men

>>65259832
>take around 40 minutes to achieve a kill
that is the length of the entire killchain, including detection by another asset, target ID, designation of firing platform, 10 to 20 km of flight to target
if you're in a bush with the pizza box in another bush 50 meters over, looking for tanks with your field periscope, it's another matter altogether
that 0.9 is a bit more like 0.8 because APS and reasons
realistically a light drone will have a .1 or .2 pK and a heavy one will creep towards 0.6
the cost calculation still favors the drones
javelin is a perfect AT weapon for a war that never happened
by chance it is pitched against tanks that were meant to fight that very same war so it is doing great
you should not take from that that it is in any way relevant to modern warfare

>>65259839
Yeah, that is above the level of Javelin. Javelin is for when all that shit fails, because surprise surprise, you spend enough time on the battlefield, something is going to go catastrophically wrong. It's just survivibility onion: FPVs are taking over the TOW/CAS role, Javelin is the "oh shit oh fuck" button for the individual rifle squad.

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>>65259843
>that is the length of the entire killchain
Which is what matters the most.
>if you're in a bush with the pizza box in another bush 50 meters over, looking for tanks with your field periscope, it's another matter altogether
Yeah, it means you're getting blown into pieces as soon as possible. More of a target than flamethrower operators and snipers combined.
>that 0.9 is a bit more like 0.8 because APS and reasons
High angle of attack means practically all fielded APS are ineffective against it.
>the cost calculation still favors the drones
Time and tempo considerations mean the Javelin is favored. Cost calculations are your primary consideration only in a strategic failure of a war where neither side can achieve their objectives and so are stuck sitting in trenches flinging the cheapest shit at the other side.
When you're actually fighting a war of maneuver and trying to achieve your objectives, then having more effective weapons systems actually matters.
>javelin is a perfect AT weapon for a war that never happened
Shows how much you know lmao.

>you should not take from that that it is in any way relevant to modern warfare
God, none of you fuckers understand what warfare is yet you think yourself capable of making these statements.

>>65259845
it's normal for low ranking commissioned officers to try to monopolize the shiny new weapon
it is also completely retarded
a drone team will be part of every normal infantry platoon, for as long as there will still be infantry platoons which is not long

>>65259850
>Time and tempo
I keep telling you you're wrong on this and you keep putting fingers in your ears and yelling LALALALALA
it is much easier to carry and launch a big FPV drone than a javelin
>Cost doesn't matter because muh blitz
that's pretty retarded lol. I'd love to wargame you and show you what a drone blitz looks like
>how much you know
quite a lot actually
tanks themselves are obsolete (now for realsies)
any weapon designed solely to kill tanks, at a unit cost of 0.1 tank, is stupid

>>65259854
>platoon
Exactly. Which means that it is going to be less responsive to an unexpected tank contact, which WILL happen to somebody somewhere.
>for as long as there will still be infantry platoons which is not long
There are about a million ways you could have tried to make that point without sounding completely retarded, and yet you did.

>>65259864
at squad level you have small FPV drones that can deliver tandem warheads or mines for ohshit situations
the heavy FPV, yea it's a platoon level weapon
you're not going to tell me now that every ZOG infantry squad walks around with 200k of gear strapped to pvt. Shartinez' back because they don't - there are specialist squads and those are allocated from ABOVE platoon level

>>65259861
>I keep telling you you're wrong on this and you keep putting fingers in your ears and yelling LALALALALA
You keep spouting bullshit with no understanding or real argumentation, so why the fuck would I accept what you're saying?
>it is much easier to carry and launch a big FPV drone than a javelin
And a Javelin is much more effective weapon system in return. A basic bitch jammer on top of a tank won't stop the Javelin from hitting its target, and the infantry getting shot at by the 125mm main gun don't need to stick their thumbs up their asses, waiting for if the FPV-drone ever manages to make it onto target.
You can operate a Javelin under EMCON and under heavy EW conditions without issue. The same can not be said for these drones.
>b-but fiber optics
Not in your pizza box.

>tanks themselves are obsolete
>mobile protected firepower is obsolete
You are a bona fide retard. You look at a strategic failure and think that's how all wars are going to go in the future.

>>65259876
>A basic bitch jammer
won't stop a fiberoptic drone either
Arena or other hardkill APSs probably won't trigger for targets going 25kph though, which the .Jav is much faster
>infantry getting shot at by the 125mm main gun
are no longer a concern to anyone lol
>The same can not be said for these drones.
fiberoptic. 40 km range for Baba Yaga, easy
>Not in your pizza box.
yes in my pizza box. seriously, you need to get with the times, LCpl Jaquanious
> that's how all wars are going to go in the future
in future wars nobody will bother to try tanks again because armies do learn, albeit slowly

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>>65259882
>yes in my pizza box
You are fitting a fiber optic spool into a pizza box? Ok. I'll fit a Javelin CLU into my back pocket. Very easy to carry if you don't need to consider reality.
>in future wars nobody will bother to try tanks again because armies do learn, albeit slowly
This entire notion is retarded. You need mobile protected firepower if you want to fight a mobile war, which you absolutely need to fight if you want to actually win the war, instead of getting stuck in a 5 year slogfest when you meant to fight a 3 day SMO.
You're essentially trying to argue that everyone is going to choose to fight a lost, failed war, but INTENTIONALLY. That militaries around the world will intentionally choose to not win wars and choose to aim for a strategic defeat for themselves.
You are so fucking stupid it's offensive.

>>65259870
>you're not going to tell me now that every ZOG infantry squad walks around with 200k of gear strapped to pvt. Shartinez' back
Not on the regular, they usually leave it in the Stryker or Bradley because lmao implying tanks in the sandbox. But is IS 4 per platoon. Although light infantry do keep the Javelins at platoon level, so fair enough there.

>>65259887
>You are fitting a fiber optic spool into a pizza box?
just trying to give you an idea of size
it's not an actual box anyway, more like a carry frame? like the thing that keeps your TV hanging on the wall so you can watch other niggers play with their balls?
>protected
is not a thing anymore
what can be seen, can be killed

>>65259890
yeah I mean that's my point, when's the last time you saw heavy infantry deployed?
honestly now
nobody sane does tank warfare anymore, there is no need for panzer grenadiers anymore

>>65259893
I'll just leave you with
>implying drones are the only weapon system that will ever evolve again

>>65259898
oh no
the next surprise your sorry ass is going to get is Heinlein-style mobile infantry
right before the wholly automated frontline

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>>65259891
>just trying to give you an idea of size
Oh look at the goalposts go flying.
>protected
>is not a thing anymore
Nigger, you literally talked about active protection systems yourself in earlier posts. What the fuck are you doing?
Armor, jammers, DEW, friendly drones, anti-air systems, APS, etc. are all protection.
Protection is the difference between your target being killed with a single machine gun burst or taking hours to blow up with drones.
>what can be seen, can be killed
When has this ever not been the case?
The question is in how fast can it be killed and how effectively, especially in relations to your own operations. What can the target do to avoid being killed?
Mobility and protection means it gets far harder to kill it and takes far longer to do so, allowing the enemy to perform his own operations.

>>65259903
>you literally talked about active protection systems yourself
as a thing of the past, just like tanks
>When has this ever not been the case?
when you could still point your 960mm of RHA equivalent at the incoming T-72s and hope to hell someone else will eat the GLATGMs
so about 1990

>>65259901
I look forward to it, though we're probably going to need a new weapon to deal with those highly-armored highly-mobile suits. Some sort of high-speed fire-and forget drone, probably rocket powered, and man-portable. Do we have a name for those yet?

>>65259906
>as a thing of the past, just like tanks
Weapon systems that actively destroy drones are a thing of the past?
Defensive developments to counter drones are never going to happen?
You're clearly emotionally motivated here.
Are you some brown who thinks his people finally have a chance to fight against its superiors because they have drones now?

Why are we acting like tank hunting os where you go in the woods and wait for tanks you can kill at leasure? The javelin will obviously always fill a role as an immediate defensive weapon an FPV cant. When your squad has a tank bearing down on you, a javelin will stop it and 10 FPV drones are not an option. 32 simultaneously deployed GBU-39s from an F-15E is better at killing tanks than either option, bit you dont always have such a thing ready, now do you?

>>65259912
they will be lightly armored (against shrapnel and small bullets), since defense even against basic bitch RPG-7V is impossible at the size/weight we're talking about. basically one person APCs with a few goodies
an FPV will STILL be able to kill them, the only serious wins are
- they will be able to function under tube and rocket artillery fire
- they will carry heavier weapons, farther, faster
>javelin to squash a squaddie
lulz. got another 3800000 buckaroos to toss at the rest of his buddies?

>>65259923
Because we look at the war in Ukraine and think that is a representation of all war forever.

>>65259918
war is getting more technical not less, low IQ low education means bad army (which should tell you a bit about your own fate going forward)
I am whiter than you and will stay that way

>>65259923
javelin is for tank hunting
a tandem warhead RPG is much better for ohshitohfuck

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>>65259935
>whiter than you
Ok, so you're brown. Nobody who is actually white ever says this shit. Nobody who is actually white competes over whiteness like it was something special, since everyone around them is white to begin with.
So that confirms it then. You've found a way to believe your race could fight against it superiors and are now emotionally stuck to the idea, rejecting everything and anything that goes against the notion.

>>65259937
>no, I am whiter!
keks

>>65259944
Funny. At no point in that post did I ever claim to be white.

>>65259946
you claim to be a different race from mine
given that you call me brown, you identify as either white or yellow
you don't identify as yellow

>>65259949
>you claim to be a different race from mine
No, I don't. Feel free to point out where I make that claim.
All you'll find are your own interpretations.

>>65259951
oh so you're jewish?

>>65259928
I mean, if you're going to waste all your mobility sitting still to operate an FPV, then sure. Integrate AI targeting and swap out the warhead for a 66mm single-stage or even an inert rod and you're already cutting most of the weight. Now it gets smaller, faster, cheaper and chumps on your FPV even harder.

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ATGMs? Eh
For me it's the QF 2-pounder

>>65259968
you're going to be tasking FPVs and they will fly themselves

>>65260017
1: that's not an FPV, that's an autonomous drone.
2: now split your recon and strike drones so you're not wasting good optics, and make the strike drones rocket-powered to cut down the kill chain.

>>65260026
>1
no it's not, you still need the wire, you still need to take over if the onboard "intelligence" cacks out
>2
you're stuck in twen-cen thinking, not unusual for a zogbot
drones are modular and configurable in the field to fit a specific mission profile even today

>>65259633
With how rapidly drone tech is evolving I wouldn't rule out a drone that is faster to aquire and fire within the next 25 years while also having longer range and BVLOS capability.
The only advantage this offers today is it's faster to launch than current AT drones but slower than anti-drone drones already in service.

>>65259829
>Longer to get out of the rucksack
Kek no. Fibre optic FPV's can be preassembled, dragged right out of the pack and a simple gaming tablet with a USB broadcomm IR that can be used to control the drone via fibre.
Javelins need 2 mins to get the coolant running cold, FPVs just needs the steamdeck to boot from flash.

>>65260026
>wasting good optics
When total war appears, you will not be lacking in optics.
Hell it might be cheaper to have them all be relatively high quality due to scale.
1080 is already cheap.

>>65260199
fuck that
you need meh optics, they come default
you want good optics, there's a mission package for that

>>65259834
>I see you're a weaker time traveller
Just from an earlier era, every time traveller eventually meets a later one.
Well, up to the temporal singularity obviously.

>>65260199
While economics of scale exist you don't want to be running FLIR on every single drone.

>>65259633
Unless turret tops became immune to a tandem HEAT warhead penetrating 800mm RHA I don't really see why.

>>65260141
>if the onboard "intelligence" cacks out
I think yours just fucking did. I'm calling it now, your physical reasoning is so fucking piss-poor that you have to be a bot.

>>65260284
>hurr u dum bot
you really got me here, I can't really sustain such elevated debate

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>>65260384
>I want my personal drone swarm to be wire-guided
>surely nothing will go wrong

>>65260218
Maybe you poorfags and brownoids don't. A cheap FPV tier FLIR costs $200.

>>65260386
wave density is proportional to distance squared, moron
the jammer always wins

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>>65260403
Any modern phone-camera tier optic can lock on at 600m (people) to 1.5-2km (vehicles). Jammers always lose against western designs. If you're flying an impact fuzed manual input analog slavjank quadcopter I can see how they might be a problem for you.

>>65260403
>no spatial reasoning
>no ability to interpret image-based metaphor
Hand, please.

>>65260401
Go on youtube and watch video footage from one in flight, see how well you could ID targets from more than 20 meters.

>>65259827
>for much the same lethality
well there's the secret: that's complete bullshit and not true at all.
actual evidence IRL shows that it often takes dozens of FPV drones to actually take out a tank.
all either side wants to show is the clips where one of them absolutely obliterates some soft target.

>>65260432
>Go on youtube
This is your mental level? No wonder.

>>65259861
>tanks are obsolete
no, they're not, you zero attention span midwit zoomer.
>b-but look at this clip of a drone destroying a tank
not an argument.

>>65259870
>shartinez
ah, that explains it, you're a thirdie dronenigger who's still harping on about how drones are "le great equalizer".

>>65259891
>not a thing anymore
then why do FPV's need 10+ drones to kill a tank, i thought it wasn't protected? oh and then on top of that the extreme hubris of thinking there's nobody working on a hardkill system for tanks that works against multiple drone attacks.

god, thirdies are just embarrassing, no wonder you keep losing wars.

>>65260448
>using a platform full of FPV video to check video quality
Sorry you have an irrational hate of youtube but anyone building drones uses youtube to help pic camers.

>>65259778
>infantry carried weapon compared to a vehicle mounted one

>>65259930
>we
well, not we, just the retarded brown dronenigger ITT that insists drones are a dreadnought moment because he doesn't like the fact that his shithole has no chance without a dreadnought moment.

>>65259949
well, you act like a brown person who wants to pretend drone spam is the end all be all of warfare, so you get treated like one.
act like a white person, and people won't call you a brown person, dronenigger.

>>65259679
>force-effector
Despite being a joke post, 1900 to 2000 was a massive power gap and 2000 to 2020 accelerated even more. I really do wonder sometimes.

>>65259778
what >>65259821
guy said- also:

Spike NLOS is a LARGE missile compared to a javelin - it's really not an ATGM anymore it's a SSM it's about 2x the size of a Hellfire and it is not man portable its vehicle only.

Spike is jewshit with a killswitch, EUROSPIKE was a mistake, Akeron MP is the missile of europe, but just buy JAV

Javelin's actual competitors are Spike-MR, Spike-LR, HJ-12, Type 01 LMAT, NLAW, GAM-10X, Akeron MP, OMTAS, AT-1K Raybolt, etc

Who knows? My assumption is that we’re getting some rather nifty deploy-and-forget AT drones within a decade or two, but if they’re still easier to intercept than a Javelin missile, that’s a major point for Javelin.

Also, if Javelin somehow gets updated to remove the cooling delay and/or it somehow becomes cheaper to manufacture, it will also be a major point for Javelin. DESU I’d expect that drones and ATGMs will co-exist for quite a while.

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>>65260463
Normal people use the camera itself. Military people use DRI algorithms. Brown retards and boomers watch computer-TV.

>>65259633
Read this poll of GWOT soldiers in Afghanistan. It's praising the Javelin. Now realize that a FPV drone is covering the same requirements but has a further set of key advantages.

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>>65261383
The modern era anti-tank weapon is neither a Javelin nor a FPV. It's a Switchblade 600 clone.

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>>65261430
Speaking of which, Aerovironment chopped 15 pounds off the total weight of the S600 by replacing the airbag/mortar style launch with a rocket booster. The S400 uses the same Javelin main charge.

>>65261421
>ow realize that a FPV drone is covering the same requirements
The Switchblade 600 system (tube, launch charge, command unit, etc.) weighs ~55kg, which means it's not really a squad-level asset at that point.

>>65259843
>javelin is a perfect AT weapon for a war that never happened
It did happen though. Ukraine, 2002-2003

>>65259935
This brownie is having a meltie

>>65260516
>Despite being a joke post, 1900 to 2000 was a massive power gap and 2000 to 2020 accelerated even more. I really do wonder sometimes.
The actual tech was a joke but my point was serious, which was that it's impossible to predict what technological advances will occur in even a handful of years, let alone 24 years plus.

reminder that this is what cope cages were originally built to stop

>>65260461
Javelin can't kill barn tank at all. It would be just hitting air over an over again.

>>65259845
Mass profiliaration of FPV drones changes tactics and need for weapons systems. Squad self defense anti tank weapons become mostly redundant. AFVs can't hide from drone and get destroyed mostly before they enter close combat . And even if tsnks aproach positions most effective and force conserving tactics become hiding in the ground holes and waiting when drones from rear echelons (that tanks can't see and fight) finish these tanks. Instead of popping out of cover and trying to engage tanks themselves, risking exposure and drawing tanks fire at yourself. Over last 3 years you see like zero attempts to engage AFVs with RPGs, when it was stapple action of all wars since RPG was invented.

>>65259778
Botbrained slopposter