Why did stick grenades get phased out for pineapple grenades?
>>65261762Size. You can carry more bomb type grenades than stickers grenades in a container. Range no longer matters with the rise of under barrel launchers.
>>65261768Also wood expensive Can be thrown back easier
>>65261762The size made it harder to carry many stick grenades, as well as fewer per crate which affected logistics somewhat. They were also somewhat more complicated to manufacture. The longer throwing range of stick grenades mean they needed a longer timer, which mean that at short range they gave the enemy time to react. Also the increasing availability of the panzerfaust often proved a more accurate alternative to stick grenades in the 50m-75m range.
>>65261762Those are German, we dont throw things as far as they do
Wasn't super under powered?
>>65261762America didn't use them, and since everybody post-WW2 copies America, that's how it is. Yes, even the Soviets.
When I was very young I thought the wooden handle was just to increase the range and that the grenade would detach itself leaving you holding the handle
>>65261954>the wooden handle was just to increase the rangeit was
>>65261863Around 170g of TNT. Which is quite a lot of boom.>>65261825Sweden made an all-metal version. And he Soviets had their own all-metal sttick grenade. They also designed a plastic handle that could be screwed on to some of their post-war hand grenades
Although it was later simplified, opening the cap on the stick and pulling out the ignition string to prepare it for use was probably cumbersome and dangerous.
>>6526176265% more grenade per grenade
>>65261832>Also the increasing availability of the panzerfaust often proved a more accurate alternative to stick grenades in the 50m-75m range.Post a single piece of evidence fron the panzerfaust being used as an anti-infantry grenade launcher even once.
>>65261954speaking of which... why don't we have atlatl grenade throwers
>>65261863>>65262031>Around 170g of TNT. Which is quite a lot of boom.Irrelevant because it has no fragmentation. Fragmentation sleeves were issued separately, few made it to the front lines and Wehrmacht soldiers weren't properly drilled in applying the frag sleeves under pressure so they seldom used them in combat. Compared to contemporary non-fragmenting (ie concussion) grenades, 170g of filler is on the low side, for eg the US MK3A2 had 225g TNT. Like most WWII German equipment, it just wasn't as good as people want to pretend it was.
Should I go for a thicker case to increase the lethality range, or thin it out for better assault purposes? Decided to go for a pin/level instead of the pull cord under the idea that the stick screws off when not needed
>>65262143What game?
>>65262109If you don't think a single desperate conscript ever fired the weapon that could launch nearly a kilo of explosives at an enemy that wasn't a tank idk what to tell you
>>65262149Rixas. In super-duper pre-alpha so it's pretty much just various designers, but the goal is to eventually make an strategy game where you design literally all of your weapons from scratch
>>65262151Anyone who played any sports as a child can throw something more accurately than they could shoot a panzerfaust inside at least 50m. The panzerfaust was a titanic piece of shit. That's part of why I immediately raised an eyebrow and called you out. Anyway, so when you said:>Also the increasing availability of the panzerfaust often proved a more accurate alternative to stick grenades in the 50m-75m range.You were literally just making that up and there is no evidence at all that they tried to use it as an alternative that way once, nor that when they did it proved more accurate, nor that the usage of grenades declined as a result of any panzerfaust usage.
>>65262184>Anyone who played any sports as a childGermans played footie ball not baseball though.
>>65262220>tfw wehraboos have to admit that in 1943 feeble Hans was a worse grenedier than 2026 Prajeet would be today because the latter plays cricket and both were Ayran ubermensch according to HitlerTruly this is the worst timeline for wehraboos and naziboos. It's like they died and are stuck in purgatory.
>>65262120>why don't we have atlatl grenade throwersA wrist-braced slingshot using exercise bands or medical tubing is more compact and practical for the modern day. Overall infantry teams all have a grenade launcher which hits accurately out to 300m or so, much further than the 30m a human would be expected to throw.Also consider the safety dangers of bad throws or premature release of the spoon.
>>65262143>Weight .922kgMore than twice the weight of a hand grenade.
>>65262109They did experiment with a fragmentation version at the very end of the war.
>>65262184>called you out>when you said>You wereI am not >>65261832 , nor am I arguing that panzerfausts and frag sleeves have any relation to the other's usage. I am only arguing that it is extremely likely that they got used as makeshift AP weapons given their explosive qualities
>>65262249Yes, I was presuming these would be more specialized grenades rather than standard issue. In an assault section of a squad you might have a couple guys with SMGs, then a couple with rifles carrying 1-2 each
>>65262124>170g of filler is on the low side, for eg the US MK3A2 had 225g TNTBut that is wrong. Contomporary Soviet models had far less than 170gAnd the US Mk3 is listed at 200g, up 220g.It is by far the outlier, and never really saw mass use.FWIW, the Germans also produced more 'egg' type grenades, even before you start counting captured stocks. These were better for the simple reason that more could be carried.It is also notable that WW1 stick grenades had an even heavier explosive charge, at around 250g.I read that existing stocks of these were handed over to Fiinland, Poland and Yugoslavia after WW1, but initerwar photos are kinda rare.
>>65262124the standard US Mk2 had 52g of TNTthe Soviet RGD-33 had 85g of TNTthe Mills bomb had 55g of TNTyou're talking complete rot
>>65261762The potato masher is actually more of a stun grenade than a frag grenade. German overengineering is what the potato masher is, it serves its purpose really well but it's way too much for a one-time use thing. Also the reason America started using pineapple/lemon grenades in WWII is that more people had experience with throwing a baseball at the time than anything else.
*Concussion grenadeI mixed it up with stun grenade
>>65262555Lern2read
>>65261863That's why the Geballte Ladung exists.
>>65261762At the end of the war, the Germans starting producing frag coatings for their Eihandgranate 39. Surviving examples are very rare.
>>65262816Total production numbers of the "egg grenade" also exceeded those of the stick grenade models during WW2. But they never entered the pop culture like the stick grenades.
I always suspected it was more to do with keeping track of the grenades so soldiers who weren't trained to use them didn't steal them, frag officers.And also notable, Americans played baseball, the British played cricket, but there was a kind of skittles played with only wooden pegs in pubs which was very popular. It might actually be a cultural factor. Could you throw one further? Probably. But the bigger factor here is probably trying to encourage troops to throw grenades properly, not roll them, sling them sideways, catapult them with something. We see the British in ww1 trying to catapult grenades in a wide variety of ways, which all probably ended in them blowing themselves up and wasting grenades.
>>65262820But because they had both, it sort of raises even more questions about why they had stick grenades at all. >>65262594Just so. The Germans had a very different infantry doctrine, specialised shock units who would use HE grenades because they were using them at very close quarters. The amount of explosives in allied and German grenades was still comparable though, about 6oz.
>>65261762it's baseball relatedthey'll think i'm joking...
Stick grenades are easier to throw when crounching or prone, compared to egg/lemon grenades. Also, hatchet throwing was relatively well-known in Germany at the time (especially the more rural areas), and it's dynamically close to stick grenade throwing.
>>65262555You're right in principle, but those are defensive, i.e. 'splinter' grenades.And everyone except Germany mainly used defensive grenades. Germanny had 'splinter rings' thaht could be clamped onto the offensive grenades, but they were not made in huge nombers.The small number of offensive grenades used by Allied or Soviet forces was probably even less numerically relevant.You can ignore the horseshit about 'hhurr teh g*rmooids wre badly trained annd didnt knooow hhoow oto use ttheiir badly designed gear', that's just zoomie pop-sci revisionism.
It could have been used as a general-purpose explosive, similar to the US MK3 grenade.
>>65263474China used offensive grenades as well.
>>65261762Theyre very bulky and having thrown inert stick grenades they are difficult to throw precisely and tend to land and bounce and/or roll unpredictably
>>65261762There was a shortage of sticks due to the global supply chain disruption.
>>65261762The stick grenade preform ever so slightly better for a WWI trench and fortification environment. Where pressure cause internal damage if not disorientation for the follow-up storming. The egg-grenade out-preform of course as most forces concluded and came to prefer the wonders of fragmentation, and that battlefields had less bunker/trench storming. Most stats I've seen see the stick-grenade to slightly better in range thrown and load of boom powders; but adding more boom in the stick is an empty effort for kill-effect fighting on the field rather than trench. The frag grenade save on boom for... you guessed it: fragmentation that will affect a larger area rather than the boom. Will the stick grenade return? Unlikely, if boom ever becomes preferable to fragmentation again it'll probably be in a cylinder grenade as these are in production.
>>65263599>Will the stick grenade return?If it's required for some reason, just 3d print a plastic handle
>>65263617>let's mass produce a simple shape out of plastic>with 3D PRINTING OH MY SCIENCE
>>65263617How do you jump from>If it's required for some reasonto>let's mass produce?>3D PRINTING OH MY SCIENCEAre you OK? 3d printing isn't exactly new secret alien technology
>eltee the cover is sparse ahead should we try the new stick attachments for the grenades>Heck yeah! I 3D printed some back at the FOB, here>wtf there's only three>Well first I had to level the print bed, then there were some problems with the head temperature, and in the end one of them broke while I was trying to remove it from the bed, and the infill is-->don't they mass produce these things in a factory?>Um, no, you sweet summer child, why would you just assume that?
>>65262820Featured prominently in Downfall, though
>>65263736Downfall was pvre kino
>>65263437Ammo accountability quickly goes out the window in war, even with the modern US army, so I cant really buy that.Americans play baseball but you dont throw a grenade like a baseball, and the american attempt to capitalize on this skill was a failure (probably mostly due to the impact fuzing, which has never really been done well despite many attempts all over the world).I bet the stick grenade can just be thrown better by people with zero althetic ability. For some reason for the germans this was a priority over physical volume and awkward shape, until it wasn't. I've seen some pretty horrendous grenade throws.
>>65262184Obviously Panzerfausts got used for anti-infantry purposes on occasion. It'd be stupid to suggest that it simply never happened just on balance of the odds.It wouldn't be 50-75m range though. The Panzerfaust 60 (the most numerous version) is literally "60m" range (30m for earlier versions). Also not sure where you're getting the idea it was a "titanic piece of shit from" it's one of the few Nazi weapons recognised as actually being pretty effective and influential. Multiple nations even made post-war copies and I've seen videos and pictures of dug up warheads penetrating post-war M48 Pattons (turret sides) in controlled tests.I'm not a Wehrb so forgive me for sounding like one but there has been a big movement in recent years online for people to simply call anything made by the Nazis terrible (or to minimise its importance) as a signal of some kind of higher taste or expertise. It's a bit silly, we can recognise they were a retarded corrupt mess of infighting who mostly invested in pipe dreams whilst recognising they did make some good kit or at least concepts (with poor execution coz slave labour).
>>65261832>well as fewer per crate which affected logistics somewhat.Underrated point. With ammo everyone likes to talk terminal effect but getting the ammo to you counts for a lot. I like to point out that BCL for 5.56 is 240 rounds, 7.62 was 100, 30-06 was 88. (YOU) may feel you're a badass that can hump 240 rounds of 7.62 but that logic doesn't apply to the helicopter supplying your FOB or the C130 flying it in to Bagram. In the era of fire superiority terminal effect is an easy tradeoff, especially since 5.56 keeps heads down and enemies pinned just as well as 30-06, round for round.The weight difference between a stick and an egg grenade is tiny compared to the difference in cube, and as the war turned against the Germans cube started to matter more.
>>652636283d printing would be so fucking stupid and time/resource intensive when you could just use plastic injected molding when mass producing it.
>>65263811In 1920's Germany "club throwing" was invented which used stick grenade dummies as a sport equipment. You can still buy them today.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHS5r6vCEkA
>>65263836To clarify the range thing:Most success seems to come later in the war during city fighting. So the range wasn't "50m-75m" it would be more like typically 30-60m especially considering earlier versions could only reach out to 30m. The warhead design doesn't ever really get much more advanced than a wooden tube with some spring steel sheet fins either so not the most accurate thing in the world.Yes I know the Panzerfaust 60 has an 80m sighting position. I'd suggest the name tells you even the Germans considered that optimistic.
>>65263628NTA, but 3D printing of all kinds is dogshit at producing things at scale. Traditional manufacturing techniques can pump out simple objects in vast quantities for a tiny fraction of the price of what it would cost with a 3d print farm. 3D printers are only good if each product's expected production run is very small, which makes it amazing for consumers and for certain specialized commercial applications, but abysmal for anything where traditional methods for manufacturing at scale are practical.
>>65261762Stick grenades are optimized for WW1 conditions where men attacking in the open needed to throw grenades as far as possible, and with minimum fragmentation in case they missed."modern" era grenades (starting with WW2 onwards) don't need to maximize range. That's what rocket launchers, recoilless rifles, grenade launchers, tanks, etc are for. They are mainly for throwing around a door, into a window next to you or around a corner.
>>65263474>splinterfragit's a pointless distinction to me in this case>>65263774fact>>65263811>probably mostly due to the impact fuzingwrong context; the baseball factor influenced the shape of American grenades in general, not the fuzing
>>65261863They are huge by granade standards but with the state falling apart they were often issued without the frag sleeve turning them into offensive concussion grenades.
>>65262143When were grenades added? I should check this out again.
>>65263811RGN impact fusing works pretty well these days after they blew up enough guys to increase the arming delay to 1 second.Both Russia and Ukraine are still producing it.
I like to add that there existed two different frag sleeves for the stick grenade. One designed for the Wehrmacht and one designed for the SS. Information on the frag sleeves is really hard to come by, especially the one for the model 39 grenade.
Stick nades are 'offensive' whereas the pinaple nades are defensive.O-nade have a significant amount more explosive 2:1 than D-nades.D-nades rely on fragmentation while O-nades rely on explosive power.
>>65261762Too many privates using them as dildos and blowing their squad up in their sleep
>>65262039Go home, Cave, you're drunk.
>>65261762Germanic pastime : axe throwingUS pastime : baseball
>>65261762people were told that the extra range is not needed anymore because they will be equipped with a grenade launcher each (spoiler: they weren't)
