the planned 6 ships will not be built, the decision was announced todayinstead the alternative initially portrayed as a "stopgap", the MEKO A-200 DEU by TKMS will be built8 of the TKMS frigates instead of 6 of the previously planned Damen shipsthe TKMS ships will likely be somewhat less capable, but they are ~4.000 tons instead of ~10.500 tons like the Damen design and also less expensive
>Rheinmetal stock is down almost 18%Oof, today would be a good day to buy. Fuck you, conflict of interest...
>>65270382Rheinmetall are a bunch of greedy fucks and should be seized by the state
>>65270387>should be seized by the stateI was in a NATO-meeting about a year ago, some of the delegates was complaining about Rheinmetal being slow as fuck to implement some updates, and one of the poles suggested that Germany should nationalize them "like in the 40's". Things got quiet after that
>>65270387If you were german you'd know the german state is also extremely greedy.
>>65270354>10,500 tons>64 VLS cellsit was too based for the krauts
>>65270466it had 16 cells.you may be thinking of the F127, which is NOT cancelled and will have 96 cells.
>>65270354Kek, so their new frigate was so shit they're having to go back to their old frigate that Australia just actively decided wasn't good enough for them.Sick.
>>65270414>Germany should nationalize them "like in the 40's"Them who? Poles?
>>65270513Rheinmetall, but i like the way you think
>>65270507yes, if you want to phrase it like a faggot.in other words, the Australians just decided the upgraded Mogami was better and the MEKO is good enough + can be produced relatively quick and at reasonable cost.
>>65270507Thats more a case of Germany wanting an ASW-frigate while Aussies went with a more multi-purpose design
>>65270354That's what happens when you move to a new CAD software without prior training or experience
>>65270531the MEKO is a general purpose frigate too, not designed specifically for ASW duties. It can perform them, but it's not ideal for them. It's chosen bc it's a safe bet and because it's German.
>>65270541MEKO yes, but the A200 DEU-version is specifically built to meet german ASW needs
>>65270473Oh I thought those were the F125sOh well
>>65270354Good, F126 was basically a bigger F125 with a small VLS, which was an absolutely retarded route to go. Going for a smaller and cheaper design that can carry more weapons is the better choice.
>>65270589it will be adapted somewhat, but it's not a purpose built asw ship. The basic hull is still that of a general purpose frigate.>>65270593the 4 F125s are already in the water, but they will get 32x IRIS-T SLM each, so they will be ok tier frigates in a few years.>>65270595agreed. Not ideal for asw duties probably, but definitely better than the f126 imo.
>>65270601>it will be adapted somewhat, but it's not a purpose built asw ship. The basic hull is still that of a general purpose frigate.Yeah my bet is on some extra ASW systems etc, not much more
Just get more Poseidons for ASW.
>>65270382Rheinmetall wasn't involved with these ships, Damen is based in the Netherlands, and this is a good decision because they just tried to get more and more and more money while promising less and less.
>>65270507No. The F-126 was designed to be a "multi purpose" ship with different modules that could be switched out depending on the need, it was going to be disappointing in every role, but that was fine because Germany had decided that they didn't really need true "warships".Now that this changed switching to the MEKO is a good thing, it's a workhorse that does it's job well.
>>65270691yes it was. Damen originally designed the ships and fucked up bigly, so the plan was to transfer the project to NVL which is owned by Rheinmetall since recently.
>>65270354In a conventional war scenario, the Northern Fleet doesn't pass Norway and the Baltic Fleet gets sunk by land-based aircraft and missiles. So Germany just needs a halfway-decent ASW frigate for Russian subs?
>>65270841>So Germany just needs a halfway-decent ASW frigate for Russian subs?cant they just let the Netherlands expand and encompass the entire north sea?
>>65270354The German navy is totally fucked, you've got the Baden-Wurttemberg and the F126. The F127 (German Burke) can't come soon enough.
>>65270841>So Germany just needs a halfway-decent ASW frigate for Russian subs?Of the Russian navy the strongest part is their sub fleet, but maybe Germany would face another nation in the North Sea.
>>65270382>decent EUR 10 billion value gone in a dayOof
>>65271141>face another nation in the North SeaThen they should just saturate the Atlantic with more uboats, just in case of another tonnage war *wink*
>>65270382Kek, make it make sense, they had absolutely nothing to do with the dutch built F126 - if anything their stock should go up, because they will in part built the domnestic german replacement (Meko A200DEU) and are part of F127, 128, F125 refurbishment and F129
>>65271196see >>65270703before today's decision, the official plan was for Rheinmetall's NVL to realize the F126 after Damen had fucked up.
>>65271212And a fairly large % of RHM's stock price is based around current and future orders, the F126 would have been in the ballpark of 15 billion
>>65270354Waste of money. Should’ve just kept the F127, it’s not like they can staff them anyways.
>>65271357the F127 and F126 are separate projects, the F127 is still being pursued.
>>65271141The Baltic and Murmansk naval bases are all within cruise missile range. In a hot war, those naval bases would stop existing within days, which means all conventional submarines would be one way weapons at best, while the nuclear subs would be busy escaping to the Pacific.
>>65271212There were also rumors that Rheinmetall intended to massively increase the price.So the gov telling them to fuck off could also be seen as a sign that they cant just charge whatever
Is the same shitty companies making the F127?Also there seems to be a lot of issues with German surface ships as of late, what's going on?
>>65271892>Is the same shitty companies making the F127?NoF127 is TKMSF126 was Damen Group
>>65271902>They are the ones that made the Baden-Wurttemberg Considering the issues with the BW I'm not that confident for F127 now.
>>65270354Holy shit, these things were gonna cost $2.6 billion each. That's roughly the predicted total cost for each ASEV ship which also ended up increasing in price. How the fuck did they manage to make a stopgap frigate with 16 VLS cells cost as much as one of the most advanced AEGIS ships being built with 128 VLS cells.
>>65271993If a German frigate costs 2.6bn, how much will a German Burke cost?
>>65272111Current estimate is €3.25 billionper ship, around €1.25 billion per ship of which is just american systems (SPY-6, AEGIS, Mk45, Mk41, etc). Actual domestic hull construction is estimated at €2 billion per ship.There is also another €3 billion or so that has already been spent to buy missiles to outfit the first 2 or 3 ships.So if you include the missile loadout and likely program bloat/delays over the next few years I'd guess somewhere in the €4.25-€5.25 billion range per ship.WIth 8 ships, it's looking to be ~€40 billion for the whole class.
Germany should cancel the F126 completely and order more F127 instead.
>>65272132>€4.25-€5.25 billion range per ship.>WIth 8 ships, it's looking to be ~€40 billion for the whole class.Fucking insane prices and considering issues with construction we've seen on the last two naval classes. It could easily hit cost overruns. Maybe they should build something new but smaller just to hone their skill.
>>65272138The bow pisses me off. I don't care about radar or any of that gay shit, make it pointy and upwards!
>>65272132>>65272176>Roughly the cost per ship for the QEs.If we go based on the 4 billion guess, a single ship costs about as much as Japan building both Izumo and Kaga + their carrier conversions + 24 F-35Bs to outfit them.
>>65272176>>65272200To be fair ~€10 billion or so is going directly to american contractors for ship systems/sensors/software.Another €8-10 billion is paying for the missiles to put on those ships and extra missiles in storage in case of a war.The final €20 billion is what actually builds the boats.
>>65272227>>65272200>>65272176Also, Flight III burkes are running ~$3.25B, germany is paying an export premium for most of the american systems, so yeah, $4-5B sounds about right.
>>65272200Do they not have anime girl avatars?
>>65272230American ships are hardly known for being cheap compared to European alternatives.
>>65272273Considering it's a euro-bruke I think it should be compared to the latest burke being produced.
>>65272273European defence procurement in general is not known for being cheaper than American
>>65270419>If you were german you'd know the german is also extremely greedy.
>>65272192Straight stem is very traditional.
