Say something nice about this beast.
>>65303750the anger and disbelief that it's sinking caused amongst russians and their hanger-on's was very amusing.also it looks quite pretty when it's not sinking, those big oversized missile tubes really make it look like a james bond toy, it's cute.
>>65303750>navy of the evil faction all have red-accented color schemes and look extremely evil with comically oversized weapon systemswho the fuck wrote this shit?
>>65303750It makes a better reef than a ship.
>>65303750Same thing as the Kuznetsov and the Peter-the-Great, they drained the Russian Navy's meager funds allocated to the surface fleet, which is a good thing. Sidenote: Vladivostok and Sevastopol seem like really shitty places to live from Google Earth.
>>65303777Trips of trvth.
>>65303777>It makes a better reef than a ship.Sadly, the Black Sea is devoid of non-bacterial life on the bottom. At least it will be preserved as a monument of Russia's hubris.
>>65303750Like alot of russian equipment, it looks really cool and it's on paper stats make it seem very formidable, and in prime operating conditions it very could be. However, also like alot of russian equipment, it is both crewed and maintained by russians, so it doesn't fucking work.Aside from that, it probably wasn't a very good idea to sail with range of know harpoon batteries while having your radar turned off and under surveillance from a drone.
>>65303750They truly live up to the "glass cannon" characterization.
>>65303858A fleet of Slava class cruisers pointed at a 1980s carrier task force would be devastating. They would probably not make it home though.
>>65303915Nah.
>>65303750It would be a good ship if it weren't crewed by Russians
>VGH Russhit gear.... So quirky... So manly... So POWERFVL.... So TRAD....>Okay, it's shit and manned by subhumans but MVH AESTHETICS.... Western ships COVLD NEVER.... >It's total hot garbage but I LOVE IT and you should too... Because it has BIG GVNS and MANY MISSILES...This might have worked in 2021.
>>65303750Russians literally have video game brain in designing their shit
>sir, we made our CIWS bigger and faster than the American one because we're petty like that, but we can't hit anything with it since it works off the main radar and we're too dumb to figure out parallax?>Just put two of them on each station! As long as it looks impressive, it is impressive.
>>65303750Best-looking cruiser of the Cold War>>65303767lol>>65304030>it works off the main radar and we're too dumb to figure out parallaxthe AK-630 fire control radars are not the "main radar", their fire control are the Bass Tilt located just behind the last missile pairs
>>65304058>Best-looking cruiser of the Cold WarIf you're blind
>>65304110Nominate an alternative
>>65303915>3 made>but a fleet against a CSG would totally be the death of the CSGAnd if the USSR wasn't a potemkin empire held together with spit and bailing twine by the 1980s it wouldn't have collapsed.
>>65304117Albany classBainbridge classBaltimore classBelknap classBoston classCalifornia classDes Moines classGalveston classLeahy classLong Beach classProvidence classTiconderoga classTruxtun classVirginia classWorcester classTake your pick
>>65304117The Boston class.
>>65304134>Guns in the front, missiles in the backbit stumpy but alright
>>65304130>Ticonderoga classI like the Tico but let's not pretend there's anything aesthetic about it.
>>65304148It's a 10 compared to the Slavshit though
>>65303780Both those cities would be much smaller if there weren't major naval installations driving the local economy.
>>65304155>10>built like a fat negress on high heels>can't even find room to put Harpoon canisters
>>65304160And yet better than the slavshit, yes that is what I already told you. Would you like it using words with less syllables in them?
>>65304164Yes?
>>65304164No, don't bother, I hate to see you strain yourself so hard like this
>>65304168>I'm mad that no one likes my ugly cruiser-fu(you)
>>65304130>Long Beach classanon... what's it like being blind?
>>65304177>I'm going to continue crying(you)
>>65304188>getting butthurt because I think an objectively ugly ship is ugly
>>65304196just ignore him lolI have
Nice ukie heritage site for divers
>>65303858>and in prime operating conditions it very could beIt wouldn't. Because even the top condition doesn't fix retarded and unsable design of many things, let alone just lying about specs.
>>65304226Shh, you'll hurt the ziggers feelings
>>65303767Anon you were raised with the idea that red = bad guys. To them red = good guys. They didn't pick red to look evil.
>>65304241duh, fucking dumbass, it's just a silly little joke.
>>65304219>Continues to cope, seethe, and mald
>>65304241>They didn't pick red to look evil.Holy fuck are you retarded
>>65303750>Has the space for replacing the AK630's with Kashtans/Pantsir-M's>Doesn't>Gets KO'd by a fucking monkey model version of the harpoonskiLmao!
>>65304117
>>65303925i cant find it :(
>>65304291she's alright, but the hull looks too long for only 5 visible weapons systemsa VLS farm looks more impressive, even if the practical difference is only a few seconds between missile firings
>>65304124>>3 made>>but a fleet against a CSG would totally be the death of the CSGYes! Exactly! If grandma had balls, she would be grandpa, you understand.
>>65304284>monkey model version of the harpoonskiThe moment a piece of gear performs, it stops being monkey model.or the "monkey"ness is defined by it being a defanged export model, which that was not.
>>65303750Slava who? :D
>>65303750VAMPIRE VAMPIRE VAMPIRE
>>65303750they're really shockingly small for what they arevery handsome, though
>>65303777kekles
>>65304410they're launching vampires at ships now?
>>65304392>if they had been built, they would akshually have been the cream of the world's shipbuildingHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I think it looks really cool, it's like if you asked 12 year old me to design a smaller ship, lots of highly visible big fuck off missiles, it looks very soviet too, more utilitarian but less advanced, I 'like' the doctrine too, not going to talk about how effective it was/wasn't but it's very "we know we can't properly beat you so we are going to go all out to try and bloody your nose"
>>65304706>more utilitarian but less advancedthe Russians, very practically I must say, wanted a conservative backup against the technological leap that was the Kirovsconceivably I think it was also the "lo" component of a naval antiship cruiser hi-lo mixall around, very practical, very utilitarian
>>65304160>>built like a fat negress on high heelsjejI see it
>>65304117The Cube...
>>65304981Shh, you'll trigger the zigger
>>65304981
>>65305014The Mosque...
>>65304981minus the Cube, the rest of that cruiser would actually look pretty snazzy
>>65305033how dare you
>>65303750If it already doesn't look like this how long until it does?
>>65303750Its pretty big for submarine.
>>65304148>Nothing aesthetic about it Checkmate thirdie
>>65303750They are good looking ships that in their prime were probably strong assets. Too bad one was made the focus of AA operations when her AA systems were not working. I don't know what the Russian plan was there.I am STILL eager to see images of the Moskva's wreck.
>>65303750Objectively what the fuck is the point of that class in this day in age? Their entire and only relevant offensive armament of 16 P-1000s is barely even a quarter of a Arleigh Burke's VLS count. Send 2 SM-2s or 6s for each missile and there will still be 64 cells able to be used.
>>65305585>P-1000sas we know from the leaked report, the Moskva was carrying P-500s when it went down>in this day and agethese aren't warships from or for this day and age>>65305225>her AA systems were not workingsome of them weren't, but not all of them. they were working at a reduced level that would have been acceptable for the 20th century. unfortunately it's now a quarter of a century past that timethe one that really gets me is how apparently the port decoy launcher couldn't traverse up and down, and the starboard decoy launcher couldn't traverse sidewayscouldn't make that up if you tried
>>65304392Why are Russians so uniquely deluded when it comes to naval combat and design?Even the most weeaboo jap shill will admit Japan could never have actually built the 100 thousand ton giga Yamatos they had planned, and at least those warships WOULD have been exceedingly dangerous to something like an Iowa.Russia had to outright scrap a Soyuz because so many rivets were faulty that re-doing the whole thing would take longer than just building an entirely new ship.They were so fucking incompetent that they copied an already questionable italian torpedo defense system, except they fucked it up so bad that Italian inspectors went 'lmao what the fuck are they doing? it's going to fail against any torpedo' and never bothered checking again.
>>65305598The other two were upgraded to carry P-1000s iirc>these aren't warships from or for this day and ageNever said that? My point is that they're obsolete to all hell yet they're still in full service, they even go the extra mile to kepe them clean and use them in exercises with the chinks.
>>65305585>Objectively what the fuck is the point of that class in this day in age?But existing hull capable of taking on considerable weapon loads without needing a new hull being built.They were just too stupid to realize that goal so they sent a glorified 70's warship into enemy waters and suffered the consequences.
>>65305632>The other two were upgraded to carry P-1000s iircallegedlygiven that the same source (Russian plans*) also claimed that the Moskva would be upgraded to carry P-1000s, that's now in question*more like Russian hopes and dreams>>65305635thiseven if the S-300 sucked, it was at least an S-300 on water
>>65305640They should've stripped the CIWS, replaced them with Kashtan units (might be able to fix six of the fuckers on itThen ripped off the P-500's, replace them with harpoonski units, ASW weapons and fuckloads more light SAM.She's never going to be a 'carrier killer' but at least we can turn her into a miniature arsenal ship to guard other ships.
>>65305655well, they clearly underestimated the air threat, but no,>ripped off the P-500's, replace them with harpoonskihigh-supersonic and hypersonic missiles are the only things getting through to Kyiv right now, subsonic missiles are only for putting defenceless units out of their misery now
>>65305662You shouldn't be using P-500/1000's to smack ground targets. They're AShM's.
>>65304719I never liked the Kirovs t.b.h. quite ugly ships.The Slavas look like the cruiser Saruman would build.
>>65305852>The Slavas look like the cruiser Saruman would buildor Hitler ;)what a lot of critics don't get is scalethe Kirov class is about a third again the dimensions of the Slava classthe Slava clas is nearly the same size as the County and Cleveland class cruisers, like picrelputting that missile armament on something like this is genuinely an achievement
>>65305632>yet they're still in full serviceWasn't that mainly (other than the Grigorovich turbine issues) mainly because Kerch ha that dockyard fire? Kerch was in much better shape (and in some ways more modern) than Moskva.
>>65305870>putting that missile armament on something like this is genuinely an achievementAnd the S-300s take (took) up way more space than they probably needed to.
>>65304567>Thumbnail makes blackbird silhouette look like a predatory bird with vertical slit eyes looking down it's beak Kino, I hope that was intentional
>>65305873yeah but we're just talking about aesthetics, not pure efficiencylike the Mk41 Ticos vs the Mk26 Ticos: a VLS farm is objectively more efficient but twin arm launchers look so cool
>>65305667If the Russians still had 16 Bazalts floating around the Black Sea what would they use them on? Special forces boats?
>>65305888>twin arm launchersThe thing with Soviet ships that doesn't make any sense to me is the overly complicated helicopter hangars, e.g. Udaloys and Karas. The USN figured out just use a big dumb box pretty early on.
>>65305891>The USN figured out*looks at Virginia-class cruiser*hoo boy>e.g. Udaloys and Karasthe Russians never understood the false economy problem of logisticsone of the greatest Anglo inventions is process analysis, in which you look at the effect of actions on the entire process rather than just one stage, to avoid doing things that create trouble further down/up the linegranted this was only invented in the 60s, and therefore the Kara-class might be forgiven for not being au courant, but the Udaloys are clearly trying to overstuff the turkey
>>65305889There's not much you can use them on, and using them against ground targets (do they even have targetting capability to do that?) would be a waste.The Slavas were made when salvo-firing 16 of them could take out a carrier. That time is long past.
>>65303925>Already drunk>See 2Time to go pick up a Dirty 30.
>>65303934It may be shit but it still looks cool, you fucking spastic faggot.
>>65304981I love this fucker and think we should Make CGNs Great Again but it ia not aesthetic.AVE NEX ALEA
>>65304134Lovely, but better looking?>>65304155>>65304164>>65304175>>65304188Your reactionary retardation makes you seem womanly or slavic.>>65304291It's sleek but almost seems too sparse.
>>65304130>AlbanyAre you retarded or joking?
>>65306012>better lookingYes
>>65305994>(do they even have targetting capability to do that?)Every other Soviet/Russian/Ukranian AShM does. Kh-22s, Urans and Onikses are used to attack ground targets by the Russians and the Ukrainians are successful using the Neptune in a SEAD role against S-400s.The Indians even used the old Termit in 1971 to attack land targets.>There's not much you can use them onThe Kh-22 is pretty good at avoiding Patriot/NASAMS/S-300 so Bazalt would probably attack the same heavily defended targets.
>>65306083>The Kh-22 is pretty good at avoiding Patriot/NASAMS/S-300 so Bazalt would probably attack the same heavily defended targets.p-700 wouldn't do jack shit because it's a conventional air breathing cruise missile and would be readily intercepted while flying high. kh-22 has 50% higher altitude, a rocket engine(that is an absolute nightmare to load with fuel and store) and so can fly over engagement altitudes of most SAMs when cruising.
>>65305994>do they even have targetting capability to do that?it's simple enough that all 1st gen SAMs had a rudimentary land attack capabiilityin fact the first time a US SAM was fired in anger, it was fired at a ground target
>>65306227P-500 ain't a SAM.
>>65304410acute
>>65306020It's got that Space Age look.
>>65306020Good looking ship
>>65303750I miss the Soviet Union, take that as you may. Post-Soviet shit is such a fucking farcical downgrade. Literally and aesthetically soulless to me.
>It's a tankie self jerk threadCommies lostBRICs lostMultipolarism lost
>>65306481They are still in the process of losing. It will get worse.
>>65306270Arpeggio of Blue Steel my beloved
>>65306481>Multipolarism lostNot yet
>>65305618Details, anon, please. I wish to laugh
>>65303827Too cold? Like the great lakes?
>>65306254yes, it's a surface-to-surface missile, not a surface-to-air missile, which means it's even better equipped than a SAM for land attack. which even earlier Soviet anti-ship missiles have shown they can perform, at least for the purpose of bombarding random square miles of Kyiv
>>65306020>this thing sucks actually *posts pvre sex*Thanks for wrecking yourself like this.
>>65308829It's seething tankies not understand true SOVL
>>65305033Fuck you the C U B EU BB UE B U Cis the best part
>>65308462https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umberto_PuglieseThis dude invented a really complicated system to defend against torpedoes involving a hollow cylinder that is 'crushed' in a controlled manner. In theory and in practice the system worked as intended, it was actually pretty good but it was just too fucking complicated to be worth the effort. It also had to be built to EXTREMELY specific dimensions and with quality materials or it'd fail miserably.Now imagine how well the Soviet Union in the 40's did, when trying to make a monkey-model version. Italians were present as advisors and attaches, they took one look at the copied version and didn't even bother trying to help them. The entire system was so flawed that mid-construction they moved to a different system, resulting in a ship with TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF TDS, which is nonsensical. As for the rivets story, it's a simple as I stated. Stalin wants a new class of superbattleship.Ivan and Igor get to work riveting without actually bothering to check the quality of rivets.Comrade Supervisor takes a look at the specs and is like "What the fuck this ship is going to fall apart if it ever get put to sea, HOW MUCH did you rivet with these!?"The answer?Over 30% of the fucking ship. It's such a miserable failure that even Stalin is too depressed to gulag anybody over it, as the entire ship is scrapped.For context imagine if the IJN Yamato was scrapped 30% into completion because they fucked up the core principle of warship construction.
>>65305655Wouldn't have done a damn thing to help them as their terminal AD radar was still in the caged position when the Neptunes hit>AD status: Cuckchair>Radar status: Caged
>>65308898Kashtans have on-mount sensors like Phalanx. You can set them to automatic and leave them that way.
Reminder that the Georgians sunk Moskva in 2008, in 2022 the Ukrainians sunk the refit ex-Admiral Lobov.
>>65308878To add some fun little tidbits:They could not make armor plate of the thickness they wanted for their projected BBs, specifically.Suggested solution? Actual naval smekalka, just bolt two half-thickness plates together.>You see Artyom, if we take two 20 cm plates and bolt them like so, we have made one 40 cm plate!Except, well, armor doesn't work that way.The other entertaining part are the guns. The Soviets basically forgot how to build big guns in the 1920s.Up to around 6", and mortars up to around 8", tehy could manage.But naval guns are a bit bigger, and a bit more complicated.So they built a 180 mm gun (that is 7.1"), to stick it onto their two cruisers they hab under construction in the 1920s.The gun was designed for a muzzle velocity of 1000 m/s. Fastest and bestest in the world, comrade.To absolutely everbody's astonishment, the barrel life was somewhere between 'lmao' and 10 rounds.They went to their Italian buddies, and literally bought the tech for building modern 8" guns from them. In 1932.You can go and estimate how good their bigger guns, the various design from the 1930s and 40s tehy wanted to put on al their supercruisers and battlecruisers and battleships would have been.
>>65309186Something to note is that building effective, and reliable large-scale weapons is a bit of an iterative process.To build 16 inch guns you should build some 14 inch guns first, to build those you should build some 12 inch guns first, and so on.Russia skipped straight from 180mm to 406mm guns. Which is basically like trying to skip ahead from the M16 to building a fucking KwK88mm anti tank gun.Japan spent shitloads of money and effort into making the Yamato's 18.1 inch turrets with insane automation and even they weren't as ideal as possible.So take a guess how effective 16 inch Soviet turrets would've been? Oh wait! They couldn't actually BUILD THE FUCKING THINGS ANYWAYS so it's irrelevant, they didn't even pass the fucking starting line."CREAM OF THE CROP IN SHIPS!"
>>65308992>leave them that wayProbably overheating the motors and shooting every passing seagull and sailor on a smoke break
Why do slavaboos snd sovietbros get so asspained when they confront facts and logic about their poor weapons, ships, planes, guns, and gear?
>>65309223If they were capable of sensible choices they wouldn't think that soviet junk was "le heckin' aesthetic!"
>>6530887810/10, would feel inherently superior to muscovites again, thankd anon.
>>65309196According to navweaps it seems the gun itself was designed decently enough, the poor performance it had was because of the shells and propellant being subparhttps://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNRussian_16-50_m1937.php
>>65309228The Knydas and Krestas look cool anon, it's okay to admit it
>>65306020It looks like a floating castle keep. In a good way.
>>65311183>Please admit that this ugly shit is heckin validI have a free helicopter ride for you commie
>>65311155Building a static test gun is piss easy, it's a fucking tube with a lock on the ass-end of it. Even with this simple task, the fucking thing eroded itself in short order and in practice would've had severe accuracy issues as found out by Italy with their guns which had LESS issues with quality than the soviets.So they already failed step one, having a good gun.What are the odds they would've succeeded with the turret mount, the loading mechanisms (they hadn't actually BUILT a fucking battleship loading system since the TSAR days and those were much smaller), safety mechanisms, flash fire prevention, etc.
>>65303750They're good targets.
>>65311155>>65311602>What are the odds they would've succeeded with the turret mountEspecially bearing in mind the condition the useless fucks left Royal Sovereign in by the time they were done with her
>>65311623Oh boy the Royal Sovereign.For context, the battleship was loaned to the Soviets during WW2. They were so incompetent at maintenance that her fucking turrets were rusted in place and no longer able to rotate. Keep in mind that literal fucking south american warlord states owned battleships and kept their turrets working.
>>65303780There's probably dozens of books written on how the US wasted the unipolar moment in the middle east. Has anyone done an analysis on Russia's excuse? How can a country be this rich in resources and geography *and* somewhat forcibly retrenched not prosper post 1990? By virtue of losing the cold war most of their commitments evaporated within a few years. How did this not produce a Manifest Destiny type movement where the Russians cut down trees to build a new life for themselves?
>>65308671Weird conditions of how the salt water flows in from the Bosphorous strait vs the fresh water from the rivers means they hardly mix at all, the 'fresh' (still salty) water sits on top and has layers of stratification so there's no churn between the top and the bottom, which means there's no mechanisms to pass oxygenated water from the surface Completely anoxic environment = no multicellular life on the bottom
>>65303750>Say something nice about this beast.Apparently has nice large compartments that aren't cluttered by firefighting equipment.
>>65303750> Say something nice about this beast.Why? Like all russian equipment it is not up to specification and manned by untrained alcoholics.
>>65311951>nice large compartments that aren't cluttered by firefighting equipmentBest cruiser in the worldIt's so clean you see
>>65303750the swimming pool is nice and there's never a queue
>>65311659Their culture is genuinely inferior. That's it, really. If you're a prick who assumes nothing can get better unless the car dies it for you, and are more concerned with dragging people down than building yourself up, that idea simply won't fucking occur. You'll make no attempt to better yourself because it's impossible, and even if it isn't, the boyars will just rob you anyway so better to go burn your neighbors new house.
>>65311623Revenge-Class SEXO!
>>65311659>>65311659>how the US wasted the unipolar moment in the middle east. Has anyone done an analysis on Russia's excuse?The Soviets did the same thing in Afghanistan but without any sort of conception of logistics, and at roughly the same time had to divert practically their entire industrial output towards partially addressing their fuckup at Chernobyl.
>>65312584>same thingExcept for all the casualties
>>65305632>Never said that?ZIGGER COPEIGGERCOPE
>>65303767how dare you assume the Russians are evil when there was a technical reason for that. The decks were red because because of special anti-corrosive compound. The same paint wasn't used in the West because it contained lead and it was tox.. yeah the Russians are evil
>>65311623>>65311635That's because ships like the Royal Sovereign weren't built to operate in the far north like they ultimately did. It's the same reason why the Kuznetsov is partially the way it is propulsion-wise, because it was built to operate in the warmer Black Sea, not the Arctic.
>>65312781>>65305632>zigger cope>ignoring the sentence literally right after >"My point is that they're obsolete to all hell yet they're still in full service, they even go the extra mile to kepe them clean and use them in exercises with the chinks."
>>65313575>De wuz good commies who dindu nuffinFuck off zigger
>>65313619Illiterate retard or false-flagger, take your pick
>>65303750That is the single most Slava looking cruiser I have ever seen
>>65304567Always have been.
>>65303750>Looks over Slava weapons load and size>Looks over the projected weapons load and size of the Nork missile cruiser under construction>Looks at Varyag then realizes it will no doubt be forced to sail alongside the lead ship of the Kim Il Sung Megadeath Fleet Exterminator Apocalypse Class April 1912 Missile Cruiser in a joint fleet exercise I would normally apologize in advance for what an insufferably smug shitposting cunt i will be in a year or so when this happens. However, since i will be mostly mocking Russia i have no regrets for my planned 30 days of non stop bullshit.
>>65313965>projected weapons loadI know they're planning on building 10k ton cruisers but have have gone into details?
>>65313985Yes and not planning, it is being built at Nampo. No pictures yet because it's being made at Nampo shipyard, it's the DPRK, there is a gigantic seawall* and they don't let tourist visit that part. Basically it will be a double sized version of the destroyers from what Kim has demanded and said. Keep in mind the future versions of the destroyers will not have the 130mm, that duty has been assigned to frigates so they can fit more missiles and point defenses. If they follow those directives (the fucking better) the layout of the missile cruiser is clear. As far as anyone can tell and what they say it is nothing but 10k tons of missiles, AA and point defenses, it is an Arsenal Ship. They are making two, they will be the flagships for their two fleets and the one assigned to the East Coast will be the core of the Blue water Navy they are trying to build. They are also building at least one replenishment ship from a 8-10k cargo ship. So the initial Nork High Seas Fleet (East Coast) will be a 10k arsenal ship, 3-4 destroyers and a half dozen or so frigates with at least one replenishment ship and in theory the big nuclear sub. In practice it will be that and probably a few Russian escort ships and subs. Past Japan the Nork Sub fleet (besides the big nuke) can't keep at sea that long. It couldn't defeat a US (and allied) carrier group in a conventional fight but could give one hell of a broken nose.The West Coast Fleet will be the same and included alot more of their older major combatants and littoral ships, Chinese violators of fishing rights be warned. It will also have the bulk of their nasty little subs and coastal defenses so avoid that part of the ocean if you can. It is worth noting that combined with their coastal defenses and land based system they could all but exterminate everything that floats on the upper Yellow Sea including things with a Chinese flag. *Image: Why you can't infiltrate Nampo and also how big they can make the ship.
>>65314094Addendum: >how big they can make the shipIn theory the Nampo wall can accommodate a 50k ship, in practice it is half that and it takes a very long time to fit them through the locks. They use bollards, bumpers, tow pulleys (and half a day at best) to move really big ships through it but a 10k warship shouldn't require more than a hour or so if it was planned, with a good helmsman it should go through fine. There are drawbacks to having a port that is unassailable to naval attack but they seem OK with that. Yes, those control towers are also Flak towers BTW.
>>65314094>>65314124Makes senseRegarding the gun I find that interesting cause from what I've read the US might just do the same thing with DDG(X)
>>65314154If your arsenal ship needs a 5 inch or 130mm gun then you have probably failed at the whole concept of 'fleets' or 'escorts' required to make a arsenal ship in the first place.You don't use Best Girl to attack the enemy, you use her to delay the enemy so you can have time to hit back.
>>65314184Your assertion and your explanation doesn't seem to connect, and hence doesn't make much sense
>>65305211its a floating brick of technology
>>65313985>I know they're planning on building 10k ton cruisers but have have gone into details?No details yet, but their 5000 ton glorified frigate has 88 fucking missiles.Ships get more efficient as they get larger, so a 10k 'cruiser' could have anywhere from 120-180 missiles.
>>65316975>5000 ton glorified frigate has 88 fucking missiles>10k 'cruiser' could have anywhere from 120-180 missilesProbably the higher end of that 120-180. We aren't even looking at the final form of the 5k ship, Kim announced that future members of the class will ditch the deck gun to fit more missiles and point defenses so it will probably have closer to 100-112 missiles. The 10k ship might very well have close to 200 missiles and almost enough dakka.
>>65316975>their 5000 ton glorified frigate has 88 fucking missilesof what capability?
>>65318776Of not-US but at least Russia tier capability.The point is that the Norks are going all-in with glorified arsenal ships.
>>65318776No clue. They themselves have admitted their S-300 at home needs work, the rest seem to work just fine and tend to have more range than Russian analogs. Here it is firing off 10 cruise missiles:
>>65303750I remember when you blew up a bunch of them in the 3rd modern warfare game.
>>65318823>work just fineI doubt their seekers are anywhere near NATO precision>>65318800an "arsenal ship" carrying 88 Iglas and 88 Triumfs is two different things
>>65319105>an "arsenal ship" carrying 88 Iglas and 88 Triumfs is two different thingsThe 88 number refers to the ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and anti ship missiles not the CWIS system. >I doubt their seekers are anywhere near NATO precisionProbably not.
lolthis is going to have jack shit for enduranceand no helicopter hangarand I bet the vast number of VLS cells is to make up for not quad-packing any
>>65319157The endurance issue is probably why they are making a replenishment ship. It is clearly not a wonder weapon but they seem to be doing all the proper things one does when building a navy with minimal outside assistance..
>>65319272>they seem to be doing all the proper things>put your fuel tanks on a separate ship with little self-defensive capabilitySupreme Leader, here's a thought, what if we put the VLS farm and fuel tanks in the same hull?
>>65319276But the USA does the same thing with replenishment ships! We have no idea what it's range is, it might be just fine. Or not.
>it took decades for missile equipped ships to move from box or arm launchers on the deck to VLS cellsWas it because older missiles couldn't effectively track a target if initially fired upwards? Or was it just no one thinking of stacking missiles upwards in the hull?
>>65305618To be fair to them, the Soviets/Russians did actually have good designers and engineers. And that's just a matter of population statistics.Things like t-34's and their bigger warships and jet birds weren't shit designs. They were fast and loose on safety sometimes, but the designs were good.The problems came at every single fucking stage after the designers though, that they'd be lucky if the finished product resembled the design at all.
>>65320338T-34 is innately a shit design.Christie suspension eats up shitloads of internal volume, makes for a shitty ride anyways, and the crew were surrounded by fucking diesel fuel and ammunition that all but guaranteed the thing set on fire and exploded from any penetrating hit.
>>65319412>the USA does the same thing with replenishment ships!US escorts have way longer endurance>We have no idea what it's range isthere's no way they're packing that much shit in a one-shit trumpetsomething's got to give
>>65320360>shitloads of internal volume, makes for a shitty ride anywaysAnd doesn't give any benefits from bogies or torsion bar, the drivers hatch design limits frontal armour thickness as well.>set on fire and exploded from any penetrating hitLeaving aside later tanks, was it more likely to burn than a Cruiser Mk.IV of Pz.III?
>>65320546The fact that the DPRK are making underway replenishment ships should scare the fuck out of you.
>>65320634No doubt it's a concern, but at the same time, it's not a "we have a DPRKirov surface action group operating off Hawaii" sort of concernwhat would DPRK name their biggest baddest battleship, if they ever managed to build one? Kim Il Sung? or is the God-Emperor's name off-limits, like YHWH?>KM L SNG
>>65320634By the end of next decade the Norks will have 3 DDGs, 8 FFGs, 18 AORs and 22 AOEs. And by declaration of bluewaterness be the most powerful navy on the planet.
>>65320631>Leaving aside later tanks, was it more likely to burn than a Cruiser Mk.IV of Pz.III?Yes, because those tanks didn't encase the crew in unprotected diesel tanks as well.
What's the best ship the Soviets could have realistically made in the 1980s?Udaloy II with Buk rather than Tor?
>>65320675https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_battlecruiser_Pyotr_Velikiy
>>65320634Not really. Maybe if I was an ROK or Japanese fisherman. Their East and West flotillas might be able to link up now I guess?I thought their main focus was on subs from dinky little SOF midget affairs to SLBM boomers, anyway
>>65320783>Gets sunk by a diesel boat in Red Storm Rising™
>>65311659Their entire culture is based around alcoholism and a hierarchy based on gay rape.
>>65324900crazy how that was actually more realistic than the Dance Of The Vampires
>>65324925I read Red Storm Rising at the start of summer. It was wildly unrealistic. Even with its own logic.
>>65324929wasn't it found that after the cold war ended the Soviets never planned to flood the Atlantic with subs for trade interdiction like Germany, but rather the subs were to keep American CVs out of range of the Soviet coast?
>>65324992Pretty much. The Kremlin from 1945 to 1991 was in a perpetual state of terrified paranoia that the Americans were always about to wipe out the USSR's second strike capacity. They kept their nuke boats in "bastions" and assumed that the Americans always had attack boats shadowing their boomers. So Soviet attack boats were tasked with protecting the Soviet boomers inside their bastions. I have a bunch of problems with the book, but the submarine warfare isn't one of them.
Need it or keep it?>>65325006I still love it and find it a great read thoAlso Clancy would probably die from an orgasm if he was alive to play Sea Power
>>65325093>I still love it and find it a great read tho>Also Clancy would probably die from an orgasm if he was alive to play Sea PowerMy biggest issue is that Clancy seemed to forget that air-launched cruise missiles exist.
>>65325006>>65324992>never plannedI believe it is more accurate to say>after developing good-enough SSBN technology that they could just nuke the East Coast from the Barents Sea, they decided to just stay in their bastionshowever, in the wholly-conventional "limited" war of Red Storm Rising, it is still likely that they would have tried to interdict NATO supply lines the way NATO expectedif they hadn't, it would actually be easier for NATO, because REFORGER would just stream in unopposed>>65325103>Clancy seemed to forget that air-launched cruise missiles existthe only NATO one was the AGM-86 ALCM. that's literally it.he forgot or did not describe, for whatever reason, far more weapon systems than just that.
>>65325199what are some key ones he missed?
>>65325398pocket sand
>>65303750I had major good time when that onw sunk, kek10/10 more of this
>>65303780>Vladivostok and Sevastopol seem like really shitty places to live from Google Earthit's Russia
>>65325398just thinking off the top of my head, on the NATO side,nearly every single European-built armoured vehicle besides the Chieftain, Warrior, and Leopard; the major land-based US SAMs like Nike, Hawk, and Chaparral (he did mention the European Roland offhand); MGM-52 Lance, the predecessor of ATACMS and equivalent of the Soviet Iskander and which equipped nearly every major NATO army at the timeI'm not accusing Clancy of not knowing about them, just saying that for whatever reason, they were not mentioned in Red Storm Rising
>>65313827Nah, you're just fucking retarded.
>>65325398>>65326354At one point, the book offhandedly mentions VDV drops on the Kiel Canal, which are never mentioned again. I can only assume that they were massacred.
>>65311659They fucked up the transition to capitalism and let their industry and government essentially get taken over by the mafia. Also they waste their time and money on revanchist adventures like Ukraine that isolate them from the world business / financial community.
