>As the Canadian newspaper The Globe and Mail reports today, the Canadian government has decided to buy 12 U212 CD from the German company TKMS. The exact financial volume of the procurement is not yet known, but is expected to be between 60 and 80 billion dollars. The German submarine concept was thus able to prevail over the competition from South Korea.>“The Canadian government, according to two sources, has commissioned the German company TKMS to build a submarine fleet for Canada,” the newspaper The Globe and Mail said, “‘The Globe and Mail’ newspaper does not name the sources because they were not authorized to comment publicly on this matter.”>Overall, the order is to be the construction and maintenance or continuous modernization of 12 U212 CD submarines from TKMS, according to the Canadian newspaper. The Canadian government will also announce this decision before the NATO summit in Ankara, which begins tomorrow. At first, Bild had reported on this procurement decision in Germany, but also referred to the article of “The Globe and Mail”.>However, this decision is not yet to be regarded as a contract, as the more detailed negotiations – for example regarding production lines and supplier chains – are only beginning now. Nevertheless, it is the decisive step and an enormous success for the German U-boat producer.1/2
>The Conformal Sonar Array of the U212 CD, arranged in the bow area, has a location capability that is superior to many other submarines. The flank array also has a significantly increased performance than older models, as is mentioned here the factor of ten in the number of acoustic reception channels.>The need for improved stealth properties also led to a novel design in terms of ship lines to reduce the location of the boat with active sonars as much as possible. The demand on low noise emissions is based on the U212A – and this with an increased size.>Thus, the length of the U212 CD is 73 meters, the displacement appears at approx. 2,500 t, dipped at approx. 2,800 t. For comparison: U212A has a displacement of approx. 1,500 t (appeared) or 1,800 t (submerged).>The U212 CD is already being procured by Norway and Germany, and Canada would now be the third nation.2/2https://defence-network.com/tkms-auftrag-12-u-boote-u212-cd-fuer-kanada/
>>65307111Who cares
>>65307225>seething intensifiesPooplakgooktrannyshills pretty quiet today huh?Canada also asked if there is a chance they can join germanys domnestic 6th gen fighter program and Spain will order german subs too, to be constructed in navantia yards. We can't stop winning
>>65307280Was this revealed to you in a dream while praying towards Mecca?
>>65307420No, but i do see our famous gookshill with a raging seethe for Japan now on suicide watch and frantically rambling about how redditor opinions swayed by gook retarded ads and VANKbots on every social platforms somehow mattered more than a TEMU copy of type 214 couldn't compete against top-of-the-line 212CD, though.https://nitter.net/FacelessManTwit/with_replies
gooks on suicide watch
>>65307111>The exact financial volume of the procurement is not yet known, but is expected to be between 60 and 80 billion dollars60 billion dollars for 12 AIP submarines is criminal. Like holy fuck.
>>65307111>However, this decision is not yet to be regarded as a contract, as the more detailed negotiations – for example regarding production lines and supplier chains – are only beginning now.Canadians are going to fuck this up. Just watch.
>>65307745$24 billion is the purchase price>It is believed, however, that the purchase of the submarines could run up to $24 billion. With lifetime maintenance and sustainment costs added, the overall program will likely hit $100 billion or more.
>>65307745Canada costs their defence procurements using lifetime program spend. So that $CAD 60-80 Billion would also include operating and maintaining the boats for 30+ years, not just the purchase price.
>>65307790yeah, building and maintaining all the infrastructure will cost a lot and that's part of the procurement cost too
>>65307654>>65307280I have no idea what kind of mental illness you're spouting but canada is an irrelevant country and so is their military.
>>65307774>$24 billion is the purchase priceStill insanely high price for overengineered, unreliable German rust buckets. Could develop and built these boats entirely in Canada for that amount of price. Also, there is something inherently wrong about these expected "sustainment costs"
>>65307829lol nowe can't build anything in canada
>>65307763They usually do....Glad to see some one made a thread on this.Wonder what was the deciding factor
>>65307839At $2 billion per unit, you could design and manufacture the entire project within Canada. That kind of funding is enough to start the industry from the ground up. My knowledge about Canada and its industry is limited, but i think you guys have very, very corrupted people there.
>>65307654Holy shit, he's averaging 10 posts an hour. Actually psychotic obsession.
>>65307654I don't see anything wrong with this dude's posts.
>>65307854No Canada could not do such a thingJust like we do not and will never have any high speed rail linesWe spent 20 years building light rail in toronto and its slower than the buses
>>65307879It's not wrong if he wants to be an unabashed Korea shill, but averaging a post every 5-6 minutes actively trying to hunt down and replying to any discussion about the 212CD or Canadian sub tender is ill. However this is actually a relative improvement in his posting habits because his usual MO is to hunt down any English post about the nip MIC and come up with the most unhinged shit to bash it. It got so bad that the whatever AI spam filter system flagged his account. And to top it all off when he isn't having absolute meltdowns on X, he comes here to shit up the board for a bit. When he gets tired of getting 0 replies on X for the day, you'll likely see him pop up in this thread to bash the nips for some reason.
>>65307111>decided to buy 12 U212 CDNothing like updating Wiki to validate your jingoism.
>>65307896>We spent 20 years building light rail in toronto and its slower than the busesDog sled options?
>>65307896this is fucked up desu. It would be far more cost effective to simply surrender and pay the jizya upfront to the enemy, instead of handing over $24billion to the Germans for some rust buckets.
>>65307951>rust buckets.You can see that they aren't even built yet, right?
>>65307951>rust bucketSource? Modern submarine don’t come cheap.Or do you honestly think you can pull nonmagnetic steel(1.3964/1.3974) and fuel cell, plus possibly methanol reformer and carbon dioxide discharger out of your butts?And the actual industrial capacity to build them, canada cannot possibly build them all up anytime soon, at all.
>Be Canada>need subs>willing to drop over 1 billion CAD each>could develop their own for that much cash and build defense industrial base>also offered brand new Korean boats with VLS, LI batteries, and AIP>fuck that, pay over 1 billion each for a German AIP boat with no VLS>meanwhile, Israel is getting the same German diesel sub with VLS for probably the same money.Imagine being a leaf.
>>65307966It doesn't need to be 100% Canadian. Just buy the steel from another supplier. Or find a supplier that agrees to start producing in Canada.>and fuel cell, plus possibly methanol reformer and carbon dioxide discharger out of your butts?For $2 billion per unit, they should be able to shit those locally in Canada.
As a "middle power" (quoting Mark Carney), shouldn't Canada be content to have the Germans just build the subs in Germany? Is it really worth it paying a premium in time and money to have a plant running in Canada for a decade? Not baiting, I just don't get the calculus. The River-class has turned into a boondoggle and a shitshow because of this "Build in Canada" shit. If Canada wanted to have a domestic arms industry, they missed the bus way back in the 1960s.
>>65308049Yes, because next time you won’t need to pay this cost again. You are investing in future capability.
>>65308068Unless you are continually building a class of weapons-system, that knowledge and capability will be lost. This is trickiest with modern warships. If Canada was trying to establish a domestic tank plant, that would be one thing, but a Canadian domestic warship industry will never have enough orders to sustain itself.
Holy fucking shit the worst korea shil network is butthurt as fuck.Or is it some ziggerbots because this is an evil wectoid HATO weapons programme?
>>65307828All the >not relevantpostsSomebody is turbomad.
>>65308081>Holy fucking shit the worst korea shil network is butthurt as fuck.They went crazy here. Billboards in Ottawa, constant radio and internet ads They spent a lot of money advertising it to the populace
>>65307854>$2 billion per unit is enough to start the industry from the ground uphahahaha just not, it's not.Think more like $200 billion for ground up.
>>65308076Spain, Turkey, Italy manage to. The trick is to slow roll shit out. If each hull takes 7-10 years you can easily sustain the yard on an order of 15 ships.
>>65308106Fair enough.
>>65307985>2 billionNo, they don’t, not with that amount.And that’s not taking into account if Canadian naval industry could ever sustain itself.For canada, it’s might be better for them to join AUKUS, but even Aussie won’t be getting any hull until the 40s.Carney mentioned “40 days” submerged endurance at a minimum, so could be ~50 days or more, combine with active sonar stealth and austenitic steel, that should be enough for RCAN to deal with any russoid SSNs trying any shenanigans in their water, at least when they aren’t busy killing their own sailors over poorly maintained and defective equipments.And forget the ‘VLS that can launch SLBM’ to deter ‘Murica, the conventional SLBM with tactical range that korean are using won’t do jack shit again the US. Except being another gimmick
>>65308091https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1QCswSCRIYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4jYH7W5q3kit really puts you off. korea i'm sure your ships are very nice but i'm glad the ads will be gone now
>>65308119NTA; a Canadian sub in the Barents Sea launching missiles at the Kola Peninsula would have been cool.
>>65307967stay mad, and stay coping for eternity, Gook
>>65308076The way it's currently structured with the National Shipbuilding Strategy, there actually will be continuous warship/coastguard ship construction for decades to come. By the time the last River class is delivered, it'll almost be time to start replacing the DeWolf class AOPVs. There's the corvette program which will see possibly potentially as many as 20 hulls. Nevermind the Coast Guard, which has a significantly larger total fleet tonnage than the navy, and a lot of larger aging ships in need of replacement over the coming decades.
>>65308081Imagine being a dying out nation full of gookincelshills and expecting anyone in the world still buying your stuff kek
>>65307111Not a single one will be delivered to Canada, with the contract being cancelled in a couple of years.
>>65308123I hope they stay up, i want to paint you lost gooktrannyshillbots over it
>>65307420Look how they're laughing at you, gooktrannypooplakgoatfuckershillbotcopefrog
>>65307111Well shit. What the hell happened that got Gay America spooked so bad?
>>65308271they are trying to butch up, but will not follow through.
>>65307280Germany no longer has a domestic 6th Gen fighter program.
>>65307854>At $2 billion per unit, you could design and manufacture the entire project within Canada.2 billion dollars won't even get you a 4.5th gen fighter jet program. Much less a diesel-electric latest gen submarine program.
>>65307111WTF? Why are they buying CD subs? We had Blu rays for 20 years now.
>>65307745It's actually less than what Virginias would cost in current year prices.
>>65308439NTA; the order backlog on Virginia's is a prima facie deal-killer.
>>65308278Counterpoint: With France gone from the program, Germany now DOES have a domestic one.
>>65307854>i think you guys have very, very corrupted people thereYes, we do. We're run by an unelected majority and thus are no longer considered a democracy. We're even in the process of removing conflict-of-interest laws.Our last Prime Minister has been caught in so many criminal acts that he removed the head RCMP investigator and appointed a new one that happened to be his best friends wife. As expected no charges were laid he continued to line his friends pockets who kicked some of it back. Like father, like son (his Daddy was PM in the 60's and 70s and did many horriffic things to Canada that we still suffer today and unable to fix). You have to wonder how he started in 2015 w/ $16 million in the bank and ended up with $345+ million in under 9 years on an annual salary of just ~$380,000. And that's just what he's reported to Revenue Canada. (Panama Papers anyone?).Shits beyond fucked here. At all levels. :-(
>>65307654Lol, he has been on a unrestrained posting spree for almost 12 hours by now. Even Clinton supporters wasn’t this pathetic on the 2016 Election Night. Or they did, can’t remember.
>>65308119>conventional SLBM with tactical range that korean are using won’t do jack shit again the US.Kekkaru, except that was the whole talking points of gookshill brigade in the CPSP bidding process. As if 10 not-nuke capable SLBM would somehow be a game changer, super weapon powered by dicklet gook energy that Canada cannot miss out on. The absence of VLS on Seawolf alone doesn’t make it an inferior hunter-killer to 688i or earlier Virginia blocks, which should be RCAN top priority when acquiring new subs.I mean, TKMS can always offer either Dolphin II or Dakar, both were designed with the sole purpose of glassing Iran. The range of SLBMs equipped onboard either two subs would have to be over 2000km - actually functional and credible as a true nuclear deterrent, unlike smol flying dildos that gook brigade can never stop shilling. Ofc, that’s if Canuck can somehow convince Jew to sell the missile schematic and MIRV design.But desu, the US will absolutely do everything in their power to stop Canuck from ever acquiring nooks or nook subs, so that’s a non-starter in the first place.
What lesson can we learn from Indonesia's defense trade with South Korea? South Korea has matured on aerospace industry, particularly jet fighter. But in terms of naval industry, Indonesia should be careful. Look at the fate of submarine Indonesia bought from South Korea.South Korean allege that loss of Nanggala was due to Indonesian. Despite the fact that defects have been found in every single one of South Korea's locally built submarines, and since Indonesia become submarine operators in 1960s, it only had one catastrophic sub accident with the sinking of KRI Nanggala which was overhauled by.....South Korea in 2012Indonesian no longer trust South Korean products after the loss of KRI Nanggala. Which DSME blamed on Indonesian until defects were found on ALL of ROKN's KSS II Type 214Three of our newest Nagapasa-class submarine, which is made and its construction here in Surabaya is supervised by DSME of SK, cant even submerged let alone fire its torpedoes because of poor construction and material used by the SKan.Never ever make deals with the South Korean shipyards. Just remember what had happened with Nanggala because of cheap MRO by DSME… Those Korean made subs with fake labels of "Karya Anak Bangsa" are just scrappy toys.
>>65307745>60 billion dollars for 12 AIP submarines is criminal. Like holy fuck.Sweden just paid 2 billion dollars for 40 leo2a8 + upgrading 60 old leo2. Assuming the upgrades cost 10 million the new tanks would cost 40 million dollar a piece.
>>65307113>superior to manyThey couldn't even fit in a better weasel word that means >50%
>>65308754>Assuming the upgrades cost 10 million the new tanks would cost 40 million dollar a piece.That's quite normalA new-build NATO tank of any type is reckoned to cost about 35 million dollars, only 1/3rd going to the hull and 2/3rds going to the turret and all the sweet upgraded electronics and shitIt would not be out of the question for those upgrades to cost closer to 20 million per refurb
>>65308751Oh did you decide not to larp as Australian today and be yourself, indogtard?
>>65308754>Sweden just paid 2 billion dollars for 40 leo2a8 + upgrading 60 old leo2. No, 2,5 billion USD for 154 tanks (110 upgrade, 44 new builds)
Uhhh Gookbros, our response? More shill threads maybe?
They’re probably too busy bashing their own national team over the World Cup.
shitposting aside, I think it's a solid choice for Canada.>stealth hull>no VLS cells which Canada doesn't require anyway>can launch anti-torpedo-torpedos, heavyweight torpedos, naval strike missile might be adapted for torpedo tube launch as well, 3sm tyrfing in the future perhaps as well, potentially also IDAS>adapted for arctic climate by Norway>local production in Canada>interoperability with at least 2 NATO allieshopefully the further negotiations succeed.
>>65307654>all those butthurt repliesMy fucking sides
>>65309053Same account:> One honorable thing Canada can do after the political decision on submarine program is to make the scoring report available and declassified.>Norway did that after the Arctic tank contest where K2 beat Leopard 2A8 in performance evaluation which Korea used to sell K2 in Poland.Holy seethe lol
>>65309090>Norway did that after the Arctic tank contest where K2 beat Leopard 2A8 in performance evaluation which Korea used to sell K2 in Poland.Every fucking time
>U212 CDHow are the cope cages coming along? Surely you develop that in the year of our lord lol. After all, Rusia has them and you wouldn't want a cage gap.
>>65308874There's also the training, spare parts, documentation, simulators, ILS framework..
>>65308139>anyone who thinks Canada is retarded for paying $60 billion for 12 diesel subs is a gook. Even the Israelis got a VLS. Probably paid less too.
>>65309364The Germans are the Israelis' number two defence industrial partner after the US, the krauts are buying their future antiballistic missile system off the kikes. There's probably a significant offset and "friend discount" baked into that
>>65309364that money includes maintenance etc. too.Canada doesn't need an offensive strike sub, they want to patrol their waters and the 212CD is perfect for stealthily stalking Russian and Chinese vessels>>65309364>>65309367it's true Germany buys a ton of Israel, but the German made subs for Israel are heavily subsidized just like the corvette hulls for the Israeli surface navy. It's unironically considered reparations or something which is retarded, but the Israelis do pay like 2/3 of each program and it secures a lot of work for German shipbuilding so it could be worse I guess.
>>65309367>their future antiballistic missile system>futureinitial operational capability was already established half a year ago
>>65309387ah, cool>>65309376>the German made subs for Israel are heavily subsidized just like the corvette hulls for the Israeli surface navy. It's unironically considered reparations or something which is retardedsounds unsustainable to me
>>65309019It's a very good choice, the whines about it not having land attack missiles are completely missing the point of a Canadian submarine.
>>65307280>PooplakgooktrannyshillsSo, average Canadians?>>65307854You can't just turn on the ability to build modern submarines, even diesel electric. If you're going to operate a submarine fleet, there's no point in half assing it with diesel-electric boats in [current year]. Canada would be better just getting destroyers and new ASW weapons.
Qrd why they didn't chose gook subs? Why not have VLS capable sub and "pinky promise swear that we will never develop nuke warheads for them when the US inevitably collapses into a civil war and they won't do shit, we have them to protect ourselves from another evangelical end of times pro israel migger republican that wants to annex us"?Weren't koreans trying to do a big package deal for subs, tanks, artillery and other military equipment?
>>65308483This, its amazing how misinformed and delusional copeshills are kek Helsing just got awarded the contract for 2 unmanned stealth figher jets and are going to lead with rheinmetall the manned version consortium.
>>65308483I also have a domestic fighter program in my garage. No, you may not see it.
>>65309710Because it's a diesel sub with a propietary VLS system designed to launch Korean SLBM's.
>>65307854>My knowledge about Canada and its industry is nonexistent
>>65310023So? Isn't that good? What's wrong with korean missiles? We probably couldn't nuke the whole United States but nuking big costal cities like LA, New York and Washington DC would make the miggers think twice before threatening us again
>>65310064>nuking big costal cities like LA, New York and Washington DCPlease doCould you add Minnesota, Seattle and Boston? Thanks
>>65309710Thirdie delusions continue to entertain.
>>65310064They are Korean, and you aren't Canadian.
>>65310075>>65310094>>65310095Why you so butthurt? Getting nukes is a reasonable reaction after threatening to annex us and having a trade war. Water wars from the future guarantees us being in the sights of miggers
what are subs for? swimming around doing nothing?
>>65308774At these prices tanks arent cost effective any more.
>>65310064Because1. Canada wouldn't be able to make SLBM's for it2.The US is Korea's most important security partner and would never sell Canada nuclear-capable SLBM's without US approval3.The US would immediately invade Canada if it was seriously pursuing nukes4.Diesel subs are a garbage platform for nukes, you need something that can sustain itself far away for months and not nearby for a couple of weeks.It's just a stupid idea all around
>>65310103>why are you butthurt>proceeds to rant about his Orange Man delusions
>>65310115Thank you for your opinion
>>65307854You have no idea how corrupt and incompetent our shipbuilding industry is.
>>65307111Anti american EU-Canadian Alliance when?
>>65310125Wrong on points 1 and 3
>>65307896>We spent 20 years building light rail in toronto and its slower than the busesAnd we could fix it with a fucking software patch to the traffic signals, BUT WE WONT BECAUSE LMAO, THANKS FOR THE TAX MONEY NOW GO SUCK A FUCKING DICK
>>65310295Canada does not have the industry to produce such missiles so 1 really isn't wrong.The issue with 3 is again that Canada doesn't really have a way of obtaining nukes, but that scenario relies on delusions about American annexation anyway so its not really relying on realism.
>>65310064>What's wrong with korean missiles?
>>65310125>Diesel subs are a garbage platform for nukesDakar and dolphin 2 are good enough to carry nukes>inb4 no iranian navyThe AIP propulsion on a small 1800t 212a can go for 2-3 weeks at 6-8 knots. A scaled up SSBK can certainly capable of much more.Ohio wont be racing around in the ocean at 25-30+ knots either.Words around is Dakar displacement will be over 4000t, probably closing around 5000t when submerged
>>65310356>missile fails and falls>OK that's not ba...>"On land"Hoew does this happen on a fucking
>>65310370>Ohio wont be racing around in the ocean at 25-30+ knots eitherAnon the only time nuclear powered ships are not cruising at high speed when under way is when they are in formation with other ships who can't maintain such speeds without inhailing their fuel supply.
>>65310370>4000t, probably closing around 5000t when submergedOff topic, but why is surfaced displacement of a submarine even worth a mention? If you have a submarine that's 10,000t submerged, that tells you how large it is. What do you gain from the knowledge that it displaces 1,000 or 9,000 tons while surfaced?
>>65310562i'm saying SSBN, and it's hardly classified intel that the collision incident between frog and brits SSBN in 2010 was because both were moving so slow to keep their acoustic signature to a minimum
>>65310390>Hoew does this happen on a fuckingidek as they basically tried to cover the whole thing up. It's more hilarious considering that this was an attempt at a show of force by SK after NK did its own ballistic missile test the day prior.
>>65310619Yes European tabloid speculation is not classified intel.
lmao canada wont ever have enough sailors to man any of these boats so it will never happen anyway
>>65310370the only reason the Dakar isn't retarded is because their expected enemies have no naviesyou're doing the equivalent of claiming A-10s are good enough as multirole jets on the basis of all its enemies being Toyota Hiluxes>>65310562SSNs still slow down to track enemies, and SSBNs still slow down to minimise sound generation>>65310565some morons only quote the surfaced tonnage
>>65309710What kind of third world cope is this?
>>65310293Lmao
>>65308049Canada missed the bus on purpose. Canada's head of state is the (now)king of England. Now, the education system here and abroad likes to pretend that this is just a ceremonial role. That is bullshit, the same powers that control the UK control Canada, whether rothschilds, the house of lords/king or whoever else. Because Canada is a huge, resource rich country development and population growth has been kept low over the last few centurys as opposed to the explosive immigration and growth in the US over the same period on purpose to prevent any possibility of it threatening the power of Europe and their sovereignty over the land of Canada. Also to prevent the useful resources here from being depleted just to grow the population. This is responsible for the insanely high quality of life for Canadian boomers.They don't want a massively populated country with its own military complex just so it can revolt against their TOTAL SOVEIRGNTY over the highest position in Canadian government, one that's never excersised publicly, head of state. This allows the king veto power over parliamentary proceedings. To imagine this power is never excersised is silly, it is just via a private phone call. After all all Mbers of parliament swear an pOath of allegiance to the King, one with police and military.Seen through the lense of Machiavellis "The Prince" Canada makes perfect sense. It's a foreign principality of the UK alongside the rest of the commonwealth. The current immigration surge makes perfect sense this way. They need bodies to work to extract the resources Europe needs to fight Russia and the US os currently unfriendly. Their turning Canada on to do what is was saved for.TLDR: understand Canada is LEGALLY the UKs resource colony and it makes perfect sense.
>>65311341It makes perfect sense though:>Canadian identity built on not being Americans>US/Canada relationship isn't really required if they join the EU>EU gains major foothold in North America to hold US Territory, waters and military capabilities at risk (canuck sub's hunting US ships on their shores)>Canada can supply EU with boundless energy supplies to keep industry going.It was always the missing piece in transatlantic warfare.
>>65310562>nuclear powered shipsNow think real hard for a second and I think you can come up with a very good reason why that would not apply to submarines.
>>65312429I don't think the argument you are trying to make is as good as it sounded in your head.
>>65311613>thirdie delusions of grandeur
>>65311613>>Canada can supply EU with boundless energy supplies to keep industry going.
>>65312459>Europe and Canada are the thirdies, OK cletus>>65312461As in they just secured their first LNG deal with Germany? As in Canada has made it it's mission to double non-US trade?>https://www.canada.ca/en/natural-resources-canada/news/2026/05/canada-secures-first-european-lng-deal.htmlOn top of that the US is deliberately excluded from SAFE, while Canada is allowed to participate. Then there's CETA, SDP and so on. I think we will see greater interoperability in 5 years, with likely basing agreements in Canada to deter US aggression by 2030 or so.TL;DR: noone trades with the US because they want to, but because they have to (for the time being) and everyone is working to change that dynamic.
>>65312555>with likely basing agreements in Canada to deter US aggression by 2030 or soYou gotta love how deeply Euros have drank the koolaid.
>>65312555Delusional cope
Lol they are mad
>>65307280>Canada also asked if there is a chance they can join germanys domnestic 6th gen fighter programJesus christ I hope everyone is smarter than doing that. Germany doesn't need and cannot afford a domestic fighter. We should buy GCAP and so should canada.
>>65313643I think OP was confused. It was GCAP that Canada applied to join, not the defunct FCAS. Even if the French tried to revive FCAS with Canada as a partner it wouldnt make sense because we have no Carriers and our needs would be too divergent. I agree that Germany and Canada should both join GCAP. Lessen US reliance, build NATO interoperability. More users drives down unit costs and extends service life.Also, unlike Germany, we don't have crazy requirements for export vetos and workshare. GCAP is likely fine having us join as long as we don't try to be too greedy with changing specs/workshare/timeline and help pay for development.
>>65312624>>65313008Lmao. Still stuck in 1994 are we?There is zero reason to align ourselves with the US.Weapon Systems?>america can't build them at competitive prices or meaningful scales. See patriot or 155mm>even if you buy american you're stuck with ITAR/EAR straight jackets>non zero chance your arms shipment gets diverted to IsraelDeterrence?>B61 gravity bombs lol>"presence" missions with non credible equipment like the FF(X)Economy?>temu trinket driven consumer economy that can't into productivity, automation or quality.Politics?Do we even need to go there? Unless the US becomes more obedient culturally and politically it's best to ignore them.
>>65314180You aren't Canadian.
>>65314180Brics inbred cope on overdrive lol
>>65314180>2 more weeks zsisters
>>65314286>>65314484I guess we'll see who's delusional in 10 years or so. The way I see it the US has no real leverage because your trade relations are only based on consumption and also you're not offering an alternative vision of the future to le multipolar order. I may not be on board with everything Canada, the EU or even brics does but at the very least there is a coherent vision for the future that comes with none of the downsides that come with dealing with america. >>65314609>brings up ziggers out of nowhereYup it's burger coping hours.
>>65307111Why does Canada want conventional subs in this day and age anyway?>The German submarine concept was thus able to prevail over the competition from South Korea.This was a humongous mistake. I TRIPLE PROMISE YOU that Germany can't deliver on time, on budget, potentially at all. SK has an actual functional ship building industry, Germany is having a nation wide industrial anal prolapse that's dragging the entire continent down with it.I don't expect it to be quite as bad as the Australian submarine deal because that's really hard to match but it'll be a trail of shit stretching out across decades, I'll promise you that.
>>65315136>The way I see itAlso known as thirdie seethe.
>>65315245seething
>>65315136>your trade relations are only based on things people both need and want to buyBased indeed
>>65315366>can't make the things you need>have to print money to buy the things you wantTruly an economic strategy of all times.
>>65315425Yes that is why your country has a tiny economy while America is a juggernaut.
>>65315425I can guarantee that whichever shithole you're actually from, you're printing money to stay afloat even more than the burgers are
>>65315366. . .but that is literally why any trade ever happens, has happened or will happen.From Ea-Nasir to Temu.
>>65315482Precisely.Shitholeanon doesn't understand that because his civilisation is probably barely above subsistence level, let alone at the point of asking "hmm what shall we produce to trade with?"
>>65315245>SK has an actual functional ship building industryReminder that the last time UKistan navy went to gooks for some naval tanker, they had to sit impotently on the cuck chair for 18 FUCKING months for gooks to iron out all the defectshttps://www.theregister.com/offbeat/2017/01/19/britain-collects-new-naval-tanker-a-mere-18-months-late/1347341And the SSN that gooks has been boasting about will only have a targeted 70 MWt LEU SMR, so its electrical output would only be around 20-23 MWe at most, despite a whooping displacement of 9000 tonnes. To take things into perspective, Frog has a habit of doing things on a shoestring budget, yet atl least the Suffren class has a 150MW LEU reactor despite displacing just over 5000 tonnes. That’s broke yet technologically backward gook is.https://sejong.org/web/boad/1/egofiledn.php?conf_seq=22&bd_seq=12692&file_seq=41163Anyone retarded enough to buy into gooks SSN hoax will only get a crippled, yet expensive SSN. And you can be sure you cannot get a succeed class for such thing from gooks, due to their apocalyptic birth rate.Imagine shitting up everywhere with your poorly executed bidding campaign, badmouthing your competitor's competency, only for TKMSchad to beat you up even harder in the final race.https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/article/this-is-nuts-the-hard-fought-race-to-build-canadas-next-submarine-fleet/TLDR: you still lost, slanted-eye bug. Keep seething. And don't forget to dilate.
I'm glad TKMS won, but why were the gooks even shortlisted over the French offer? The French sub is designed for long range missions too, the Dutch ordered it for that reason.
>>65315983The kraut hydrogen PEM is the most advanced fuel cell-based AIP, plus Indret have apparently abandoned R&D on their special snowflake diesel-powered fuel cell. There's no mention of it in post-2021 marketing materials. Plus it's traditional to snub frog products in Canada, due to de Gaulle's little indiscretion 60-something years ago.
>>65315983AFAIK, Frogs hasn’t got a functional AIP developed yet. They had some concept for closed cycle diesel AIP, but no functional prototype since 2017. The Dutch Orka will be a classic diesel electric with SAFT Li-ion battery (first batch 212CD will also sourced from them, at least until Canada set up domestic LIB production).Diesel electric LIB can’t provide the same submerged endurance as PEMFC AIP, a must have for Canada if the boat is to transit 3000 nmi+ under Arctic ice, since no snorkeling. It’s written in their requirements.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Patrol_SubmarineSmaller 212A did a 2800nmi submerged transit back in 2013 at 6-8 knots, so it’s reasonable to assume a much larger and modern 212CD can too, if not more.Also snorkeling with diesel engine running in a ASW heavily-infested area is a death sentence for any sub. And you can be sure Arctic will be a hot spot for years to come, unlike Dutch boats with their missions mostly involve patrolling the Caribbean. Pidor and Chink won’t bother much in that region, but not the Arctic
>>65315983i don't think the french diesels can stay submerged for 3000 nmi so they didn't meet the basic requirements
>>65315245Kek gookshills still in panic mode - the gooks entire submarine knowledge is tech transfer from TKMS hahahaha
>>65316046>>65316067>>65316170interestingso the Dutch chose an inferior sub?
>>65316254There,s a difference between "better/worse than x" and meeting your specific requirements.
The funniest trick, a Western country could pull, would be to do a reverse technology theft, and steal the zhangistani micronuclear reactor design for their new SSKN. That one's basically the perfect AIP solution.
>>65307111*Das boot soundtrack intensifies*
>>65316521nice try, but no, chang
>>65316608Wait, is that a mod?I may have to fire that up again and autistically set scout plane search patterns.
>>65315983Man, the Spanish fucking up their S-80 really caused them no end of grief. A pity, too, since the powerplant concept is quite elegant, if somewhat inefficient.
>>65316067>AFAIK, Frogs hasn’t got a functional AIP developed yet.NTA, but France really does not have a pressing need for AIP, they do have a working nuclear design afterall.
>>65317768and a strong civilian nuclear industry, and a powerful pro-nuclear cabal both in and out of the Navy that has historically stonewalled suggestions to go conventional
>>65315458>US GDP 30 trillion USD>EU GDP 21 trillion USDDang you're rig...wait. What's that? Oh hold on most of your GDP is not actually producing anything. Let's look at the competitive industrial performance index. Let's look at MVA figures and economic complexity.Oh never mind the EU actually leads in all of those.>>65315467>EU debt-to-GDP: 80%>US debt-to-GDP: 120%real burger coping hours.
>>65316254Dutch SSK is a slimmed down Suffren SSN. While it might not have the same submerged time as fuel cell AIP, SSN-based hull should allow for more crew supplies and fuels for better overall endurance, which probably was the deal breaker for the Dutch. Germs also offered larger 212CD E variant, though it's unclear why it lost against French. https://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2024/03/orka-class-specifications-table-dutch.html
>>65317915>most of your GDP is not actually producing anything. Let's look atthe device you used to post this and what operating system it runsinb4 Huaweialso,>EU debt-to-GDP: 80%>US debt-to-GDP: 120%at least 45% of annual EU GDP is used wholly on government servicesand real EU GDP growth for the past 20 years has been half of the US, but also better-performing OECD countries such as Australia
>>65318033There was likely a fair bit of politics involved. At the time of the tender, the Dutch and the Germans were blaming each other for the frigate program's delay. So they weren't on the best speaking terms, naval-wise. The one good thing about Orkas is, they have a fuckton of internal space, for a conventional boat. This gives them a massive range on diesels, we're talking better than a Tench-class fleet boat (which remained the gold standard for conventional subs for over half a century). They also carry a shitload of weapons, 30 "torpedo-sized effectors". By contrast, Type 212CD only carries a max of 14 torpedoes and missiles.
>>65317915Notice how you didn't post anything about what drives the EU GDP.
>>65307111Huh, Norway is now looking at nuclear civvies vessels. Conventional submarine is always a waste of timehttps://www.vard.com/press-releases/nuproship-ii-pioneering-the-future-of-sustainable-marine-propulsion-with-nuclear-reactors
>become independent of a country 90% of your populous lives within spitting distance ofBecome a European backwater would be better than the current state of sino-jeet brothel and staging ground.Canada becoming the best Korea of NA in the future NATO divorce war is where the real pod racing startsTriple kino if somehow Trudeau comes back just long enough to play the part of bleeding woman, getting one to attack the other for the hand of leaf landia.
Pretty sure European shipbuilding sucks compared to East Asia, especially warship building, too much tonnage and cost for too few weapons, but I'll give the Germans a pass for submarines.
https://europeanspaceflight.com/what-does-isar-aerospace-have-to-do-with-canadian-submarines/It turns out having sovereign space launch is what won the selection for Germany.>>65320843Anon you show your ignorance by thinking weapons are what drive tonnage.
>>65321879It's not sovereign for Canada. It belongs to us Germans.
>>65321879I wonder if Isar will indeed launch first or if RFA is going to beat them at the last minute. Isar was clearly ahead but had to reschedule its second test launch multiple times in the last 6 months, so RFA is actually catching up. Both should attempt a launch this summer.
>>65318612is it ai?
>>65320843Indeed, you can save a lot of tonnage when you built your war ships with a single hull frame, that sinks in your own ports during the slightest storm or when meeting a fishing trawler like the chinese kek
>>65310064In that case, you might as well procure/build up the capability to churn out cheap GLCMs, much like what Ukraine is doing. There will be a massive market for cost effective GLCM and associated turbojet in the coming years. Korean short range SLBM is a very niche weapon and not effective at all against the US navy, Best Korean navy is a circus show no matter how much Little Kimmy trying to flaunt. Ursa Major sinking will likely set their SSBN program back even more.Take the FP-5, it can be concealed easily in any big rig. And look how much chaotic it’s doing to vatnikstan.The submarines can stay in their role of harassing enemy sea lanes, which is what their primary role in the first place.
>>65325197>Korean short range SLBM is a very niche weapon and not effective at all against the US navy This. It's a specific system, designed for a specific situation (the need to keep up with their northern neighbors).
