How did Japan manage to take the Philippines when the US had more troops than the invading Japanese forces?
>>65312961Japan wanted to completly genocide the people there while the US wanted to control it. It's easier to conduct a war when the objective is to kill everything not in a Japanese uniform
>>65312964But Japan literally had to launch an amphibious invasion while being outnumbered by the defenders
>>65312961Complete lack of sea and air support. Notably of the few hundred air craft most were destroyed on the first day due MacArthur's incompetencestill>The campaign to capture the Philippines took much longer than planned by the Japanese
>>65312961Did you read the dates? An army that size can only last so long when completely cut off.
>>65312961naval supremacy, aerial superiority, and the magic of counting every colonial garrison clerk and bottle-washer the same as a battle-hardened Jap rifleman
>>65312961>2x the aircraftGee I wonder
>>65312961>151,000 troopsyeah, how many of those were Americans and how many were Philipino garrisons?Also having total air superiority must have helped alot.
The real question is whether OP is baiting or just genuinely retarded.
DUGOUT DOUG MACARTHUR LIES ASHAKING ON THE ROCKSAFE FROM ALL THE BOMBERS AND FROM ANY SUDDEN SHOCKDUGOUT DOUG IS EATING OF THE BEST FOOD ON BATAANAND HIS TROOPS GO STARVING ON.DUGOUT DOUG'S NOT TIMID, HE'S JUST CAUTIOUS, NOT AFRAIDHE'S PROTECTING CAREFULLY THE STARS THAT FRANKLIN MADEFOUR-STAR GENERALS ARE RARE AS GOOD FOOD ON BATAANAND HIS TROOPS GO STARVING ON.DUGOUT DOUG IS READY IN HIS KRIS CRAFT FOR THE FLEEOVER BOUNDING BILLOWS AND THE WILDLY RAGING SEAFOR THE JAPS ARE POUNDING ON THE GATES OF OLD BATAANAND HIS TROOPS GO STARVING ON...
FDR should have ordered MacArthur to shoot himself on Corregidor. Would have saved everyone a lot of trouble.
>>65312961MacArthur could not organize a defense to save his life, and his revisions to pre war defensive plans did more to help the Japanese victory than anything their own generals came up with
>>65312961MacArthur fucked up the defense.
>>65313906> baiting or just genuinely retardedjury's out tbqhon the chans it's easy to say it's a baiting pajeet or snownig, but on the other hand, one can also read equally-retarded conclusions from historiansa lot of which fuddlore is still repeated with zero review on that great arbiter of modern opinion, Wikipedia
>>65312961McCucktor was worried he has to rough it out in the jungles. Where will he put his four post bed and how will he get his morning tea and cookies? So, he panicked and ran away, leaving tens of thousands of local troops to be massacred by the Japs.
>mfw MacArthur haters don't even read the litGlownigger revisionist propaganda from the 60's, unironically.
>>65312961>when the US had more troops than the invading Japanese forces?the germans in france vastly outnumbered the americans on dday.
>>65312961Because Dugout Doug was very selective about the orders he refuse to follow and rules he was willing to bend.Instead of saying fuck that shit and digging in for a fight he ran away.
>>65315320There were only 50,000 German troops defending against the160,000 men on the beach with air and naval domination.
>>65312972The Lingayen Gulf was manned by a poorly equipped Filipino Constabulary unit which didn't have heavy weapons and couldn't hold the beach. By the time US armor arrived they had been routed into the jungle and the Japs had set up defensive fires. The tanks and Bren Gun Carriers were too valuable to risk on a yolo charge against an unknown force since there were no more reconnaissance aircraft and the literal Filipino street cops didn't know how to collect intelligence or fight combined arms alongside armor, so they just kept falling back any time they would see jap armor or anti-tank guns.Interestingly, this was in line with the prewar plan to contain a Japanese invasion, but they fell back to quickly without infantry support and left all the stockpiled supplies and logistical equipment behind, which really bit the Allies in the ass later during the fight for Bataan.
>>65313149The Japanese 20th Infantry Regiment of the 16th "Wall" Division was completely destroyed by Army Air Corps airmen and Navy sailors when they tried to outflank defensive lines on Bataan by an amphibious landing. A unit which had been hardened combat veterans in China for the last five years got completely destroyed almost to the last man by a group which had less than five days of combat training. I think in total there were less than 30 survivors, and in the 21st Pursuit Squadron's sector there was only one POW out of the 800 Japs that landed, and he only got captured because he tried to kill himself by jumping off a cliff and fucked it up, only breaking both his legs. He ended up dying several weeks later from infection, so I guess you could say it was a clean sweep.The Japs were so used to the Chinese being experts in guerilla warfare, and the legends of US superiority from the Perry Expedition days that the Japs got psyched out on first contact and were so confused by the Americans lack of attention to combat discipline (talking loudly, lighting fires after dark, failing to fortify their positions, the Navy sailors accidentally stained their dress white uniforms bright yellow, etc) that they were convinced the American troops were acting retarded on purpose to try and bait the Japs to attack, when in fact they were just being retarded. Instead of quickly pushing off the beach, the Japs held back which allowed US tanks to arrive and push them back into the sea. Interestingly the 16th Division would be stationed in Leyte during the occupation and got completely destroyed again during the attack on US airfields in 1944, giving that unit the humiliating distinction of going 0-2 against untrained Air Force mechanics and ground troops.
>>65312964If the objective was to kill everything not in a Japanese uniform, why did they do the Bataan Death March for the POWs? I'd have shot them all right there. Far easier.
>>65314864Kek, took you long enough
>>65312961A large part of those numbers are Filipino militia. They also had air and naval superiority. Not to mention they were attacking with planning while the allies were unprepared for the war. Also MacArthur is bad at being a general.
>>65317662waste of ammunition
Given that Japan also struggled with defense three years later, the terrain of the Philippines may simply be difficult to defend. Even looking at Luzon alone, the abundance of suitable landing sites and the lack of natural defensive terrain make it unclear how the island could have been effectively defended.
>>65317662Because contrary to what that anon said, their objective wasn’t to genocide everything in sight, it was to remove a potential American choke point across supply lines to the Dutch East Indies and to establish a puppet for their greater east Asia co prosperity sphere. Additionally Japanese intelligence was wildly off about how many defenders were in the Philippines, and so while there was a cursory attempt to set up aid stations on the bataan route they were comically inadequate, and Japanese commanders were either complicit with brutalizing the POWs along the March or were unable to control their troops so as to prevent it.As to why it all went tits sideways, the same reasons for the rest of Japan’s chaos throughout the war: military branches with conflicting goals, a civilian government utterly incapable of reigning in its military and large corporations, which were in bed with the military and profiting off its adventures in China, and the military branches themselves unable or unwilling to crack down on lower ranking commanders going off script.Essentially an entire organization of little to no accountability.
>>65312961American and Filipino troops were spread out all over the islands and had virtually no combat experience outside of bullying the Moros (who weren’t even that active in the years leading up to WWII). The Japanese concentrated their strength on a handful of landing sites (in effect giving them local superiority), made effective use of air support, had help from some Filipino nationalists who had never forgiven the United States for crushing their bid for independence 40 years earlier, and many of the men were veterans of China and Manchuria, enabling them to defeat their enemies in detail through a series of rapid maneuvers over what was thought to be impassible terrain.
>>65317748>their objective wasn’t to genocide everything in sight, it was to remove a potential American choke point across supply lines to the Dutch East Indies and to establish a puppet for their greater east Asia co prosperity spheretheir overall objective was to create their own Asian version of the British Empire because "our time in the sun", yes, but the means by which they did it tended to be almost genocidalat the very least it was "cultural genocide", as during the occupation they usually banned local cultures and tried to substitute their own (language, education, holidays and festivals, etc)>comically inadequatetrue, in defence of accusations that the Japs were trying to starve prisoners to death, they themselves were on national rationing before America even joined the war, and their combat rations were sometimes equally meagre and of poor quality>and Japanese commanders were either complicit with brutalizing the POWs along the March or were unable to control their troopsI'd argue that unable to control = complicit, since unlike loss of control in Allied armies, even in those cases where Jap commanders did not approve of the warcrimes, they rarely bothered punishing their troops for itand there are recorded instances of subordinate commanders convincing the CO to permit the warcrimes. in Asian culture, this is often a role of deputies, to be the "bad cop" and hatchetman so the CO can claim plausible deniability>>65317662>If the objective was to kill everything not in a Japanese uniformbecause that was not the objective>why did they do the Bataan Death March for the POWs?the bastard in charge had indeed wanted to kill them all but (according to official account) he had been ordered not to by his commanderso under the guise of "dumb insolence" or the new term "quiet quitting" he marched them in the most brutal way possible so he could claim that he followed his orders
>>65317748Sounds pretty based. Also the Imperial military was notably Spartan even amongst themselves, so to them it was probably proper and appropriate treatment of surrendering enemies.
>>65317774>their overall objective was to create their own Asian version of the British Empire because "our time in the sun", yes, but the means by which they did it tended to be almost genocidal>at the very least it was "cultural genocide", as during the occupation they usually banned local cultures and tried to substitute their own (language, education, holidays and festivals, etc)Sounds like they had the right idea given how the British Empire fell apart and the only thing we got from that are the almost 2 billion jeets walking around on Earth today.
>>65317787no, the jeets, muds, nigs and commies plague us in spite of what the British Empire didthe situation would be much worse without Anglo law and sociocultural moreswhich are, unfortunately, rapidly being overwritten and forgotten
>>65312964Bataan "death march" is nearly Holohoax tier.Groups were breaking off and running into jungle presumably to fight another day. USGIs would've probably just machine gunned everyone if roles reversed.Only reason USGIs were dying was because they didn't surrender until sick and starving.Most of the "march" was a train ride. If I was Jap commander I wouldn't let any USGI POWs anywhere near a train, out of fear they'd do something sneaky to rekt it, and replacement Locos hard to find in Islands.
>>65317804Anglos should've genocided them like what the Japanese would have apparently done.
>>65315350Makes one wonder how it would have gone if Mac hadnt replaced War Plan Orange with vibe-based defence and hid under his table for six hours after getting news of Pearl getting hit
>>65317774>Implying the British empire was any differentI fucking wish, at least then we wouldn't be plagued by an entire subcontinent of shitting ESLs.
Bump.Where can i read about pre-war diplomacy between US-Jap?Wanna compare it to current events.
>>65323765Can’t provide a singular source but it really was a fascinating time. There were parts of the Japanese government that were partial to making friends with America and China and there were the psychos who wanted to go full invasion. Really an Interesting dichotomy.
>>65323765start with wikiif you haven't at least read the Wiki articles and then gone on to read the references read within those articles, then why are you bothering us?
>>65312961MacArthur was a moron.
>>65312961As a general premise, defensive forces on islands are going to eventually be defeated if, for example, the Navy of the defenders had been control+alt+deleted the day before. >>65315424>US Naval Landing Parties continue their incredibly implausible but somehow true 100% victory rate through overwhelming retard supremacy
>>65323765https://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-62-supernova-in-the-east-i/
>>65313906
