>2026... i am forgotten
>>65330071.450 bushmaster mogs
>>65330071for her pleasure
>>65330075yeah I'm a "bushmaster" myself if you know what I'm freaking saying
>>65330490Sounds like something that Carl from ATHF would say.
>>65330490in english doc
>>65330075Nah, .458 is a bigger number than .450, therefore .458 SOCOM is better.
>>65330490Based bushmaster
>>65330587
>>65330071Boomerslop spawned entirely from gun rag articles about Mogadishu in the 90s talking about how you needed more STOPPIN POWA to kill 80 pound Somalians.
>>65330490I’m a bit of a bushwacker myself. If you’re picking up what I’m putting down here.
>>65331412.223 goes through them like pencil through paper. You need as much diameter as you can with floppies
>>65332095This is fuddlore, people just weren't fucking hitting them and if they were shot placement wasn't good enough to compensate for M855's meh fragmentation at lower velocities.If troops re-ran Mogadishu with .458 SOCOM they'd all run out of ammo two hours in
>>65331412It's a hunting cartridge in all the practical applications which matter.>>65332095lmfao no they fucking don't
>>65332213Those people have muscles and fat to absorb kinetic energy. Somalis are made of mostly nothing. bullets have no mass into which it can deliver force unless you hit a bone. Thankfully they got them lightbulb heads make for easy poppin
>>65332252>The force!Fragmentation pal. That's the golden ticket and has been since Dr. Fackler said it, Doc Roberts said it, Molon said it, I could go on. If 5.56 overpens then .458 will overpen."Force" does not kill. Fragmentation causing a massive permanent cavity ij the right place does.
>>65330071>you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about
>>65332262Hollow points don’t expand if you don’t have enough inertia to give to them. Same thing with frag. .224 going 2800fps entry, 2799fps exit the skinny
>>65332294>velocity, not inertia5.56 has perfectly adequate wounding per >>65332213 if you use correct ammo and good shot spacing. M855A1 resolves a lot of problems and basically rendered .458 SOCOM obsolete.Who da hell wants to cut their mag capacity to a third, eat way more recoil, and pay $2 a shot just to shoot sorta-kinda .45-70 out of an AR? Sounds like a great range toy.
>>65330071.458 SOCOM only exists so retards in ban states can get "10 round" mags.That being said, I've always wanted a rifle in .458 because why not
>>65332213 damn, x39 icepicks like a motherfucker. That one with the knee looks almost exactly like when I bounced a .32 acp off my femur. maybe I made the right call choosing 1:12 twist and m193 for my ar builds, if that's what standard 55gr moving at less fps than the original specified 20 inch barrel will do I really wonder what the early origin loadings of .223 with the 40-45 gr projectile and 1:14 twist with modern hunting bullets would do, there wouldn't be much penetration but I imagine it would shatter the projectile near instantly.From personal preference I like .450 bushmaster, cheaper slugs (.452) so reloading cases that haven't been launched into the stratosphere, my build with a Tromix barrel and bolt recoiled so hard the collapsible stock jumped 3 holes on the adjustment, i'm going to rebuld it with a fixed stock in the future
>>65332362Apparently 8M3 bails 7.62x39mm out somewhat but yeah those terminals are terrible.
>>65332252>Those people have muscles and fat to absorb kinetic energy. Somalis are made of mostly nothing
>>65332303>Who da hell wants to cut their mag capacity to a third, eat way more recoil, and pay $2 a shot just to shoot sorta-kinda .45-70 out of an AR? Sounds like a great range toy.It's for shooting hogs, not people.>>65332362Partially it's that M43 Ball just isn't that amazing (which is why they replaced it with 5.45mm and 7n6). There'd be better projectiles for the cartridge.
>>65332376i've got 2 100 round boxes of it from Tula, but apparently that was the last run they made in like 2016 or something, I should have bought more. I've had people tell me that it doesn't fragment or mushroom as well, and an anecdote about jacket separation. But I don't have acces to near the variety of ammunition or targets these critics have experience with, supposedly Yugo M67 tumbles better.I just wish I was back in 2008 trying to figure out the best brand of .22lr via ballistics gel tests by people with bad cameras in case there were zombies
>>65332396>Partially it's that M43 Ball just isn't that amazing (which is why they replaced it with 5.45mm and 7n6). There'd be better projectiles for the cartridge.M43 is actually the name for the cartridge.It's not like in America where M193 and M855 is the name of a particular loading for 5.56x45M43 is just the official designation for 7.62x39 in Russia.
>>65332425You're right about that, actually. Although it's technically still true in that 7.62x39mm isn't that great of a cartridge, either, it's just somewhat better than 7.92x33mm.
>>65332294If this were true then 5.56 hollowpoints wouldn't expand on small varmints, but they can and they do. The primary driver of expansion is inertial pressure *per square unit*, not overall inertial resistance, contrasted against the bullet's construction and hardness. If you exert the same pressure per sq mm and the metal is equally soft then the metal will still want to deform.>>65332406There are numerous 7.62x39 softpoints and polymer tipped hollowpoints out there that will offer consistent performance. M67 is a fairly mediocre performer because tumbling by itself is a highly inefficient wounding mechanism, this is somewhat mitigated by the fact that M67 does actually seem to fragment a bit at close range (according to Da Joos anyway) in contrast to Dr. Fackler's comments, but it's still not as good as even M193.
We've simply already perfected the infantry rifle cartridge, which is why the Soviets went "Damn, we should do that too." and made a copy of it, because it was way too good not to, they couldn't afford to stick with 7.62mm.A good chest plate can stop a 5.56mm/5.45mm from killing you (a particularly heavy chestplate can even save you from .50BMG), but that's sure as hell not going to make you invulnerable to taking fire overall, that shit is still dangerous as hell, which is why defeating armor with infantry rifles is a spook.Everything from here on is going to be bullet design, and then minmaxing casings (either polymer cases, or if cased telescopic ever works out). Even if we DO make magic aimbot optics that work, that will not change this meta. We would genuinely need a new revolution in chemistry and materials science to progress meaningfully from here, akin to the great leap which was the move from blackpowder to smokeless powder, and the development of metallurgy allowing its proper exploitation. That may one day happen, but it's probably gonna take a couple of centuries at least.
>>65330071Has anyone tried dropping one of these big uppers on an scr lower? I know it sounds retarded but I always thought it would be cool if it worked like some badass pirate gun
>>65332095So that's how black holes work. Thanks, doc.
>>65332713does the .458 use a different bolt?
>>65332095>You need as much diameter as you can with floppiesThis logic becomes so especially goddamn insipid when you think about how fucking insignificant the larger projectile size actually is for hit probability.>>65332769It uses its own bolt, but it will fit in any carrier which can take normal 5.56mm AR15 bolts (the face and extractor is where it actually differs), so they'll work with that articulated tail carrier for the angled buffer.Pic related is an SCR rifle in .458 SOCOM
>>65330490you're whistling through the wheatfield?
>>65330490>hehehehe>Tonight!
>>65332473When weighing its pros vs its cons, you're right, it's not that great of a cartridge.Calibers like 5.45 and 5.56 are superior on balance.7.62x39 is basically .300 blackout, without the easily accessible subsonic loads.While its not the *best* for warfighting, it's certainly not terrible. And depending on the context, a single round of 7.62x39 can be more deadly than a single round of 5.56x45
>>65331412I just actually got done with the book about black hawk down and they claimed m855 wast to dense and meant for light armor and that the skinny high on kot were sometimes completely unfazed>>65331314Also this gun is beautiful I want thisWhat about a pistol in 460 rowland?
>>65332934Saying this as a 5.56 fan - I think that’s unfair. 7.62x39 works well out of short barrels, has good barrel life, demonstrates excellent all around performance at closer range with the right loadings, and it doesn’t have to sacrifice tissue damage for adequate barrier performance to the same extent that smaller rounds do.It’s not quite as well rounded as 5.56 and, as you’ve pointed out, is probably not as optimal of a choice for standard issue. But I don’t think that objectively it’s a worse round.
>>65333019I didn't mean to imply that it's objectively worse.I was more so getting at what you said, that it's probably not as optimal of a choice for standard issue.
>>653329347.62x39 would really shine as a low budget CQB round out of short barrels but most organizations that aren't the GIGN figured they can afford fancier rounds and fancier guns
>>65333051Still don't understand what the fuck GIGN was thinking.
My favorite part of 458 socom was buying 10 round magazines that were actually 30 round 556 mags in California.
Big heavy boolit good for CQBBig heavy boolit good for subsonic>mag dumping a thumper should be called mag thumping
