reddit ammo. nearly a dollar a round. you gotta be fucking kidding me. I use cheap shit. If you use premium ammo, if you use what everyone recommends, you're just a fucking idiot and a sucker. the people who use this shit are the same RETARDS who put 500 dollar dots and fucking flashlights on their handguns. consumerist, brainwashed youtube morons.
>>65333143If you think people are shooting with this instead of ball ammo you're fucking stupid. HST and Gold Dot are the kind of things you should always have a few mags loaded with and set aside, and a box or two tucked away, but when your putting serious round counts down range, we all shoot trash ammo.
>>65333159>If you think people are shooting with this instead of ball ammo you're fucking stupidI don't have anything to add to that, just wanted to second you in regards to OP being a big dumb cocksucking faggot
>>65333143You can buy it for a lot less once you figure out how to use a search engine.
This is literally what reloading is forYou can either stock up on ammo and save money, or shoot more for less
>>65333143I'm a stingy person, but holy fuck what poorfag cope.Bullets designed to maximize shock at the cost of penetration are real, anyone can try it with ballistic gel or a target of their choice.Yeah, you're a retard if you just buy what's popular - you should buy a few of them and see what your individual gun likes the best and run that.
You're all sick people. I hope you all get cancer. Fuck youse all. I put a curse upon you all. Fuck ya mudda
>>65333143>500 dollar dots and fucking flashlights on their handgunspoorfag cope. but if you really can afford it, just get that fiocchi hollow point. it's cheaper and come in a box of 50.
>>65333143Sounds like you're poor
why do poorfags always seethe about optics
>>65335492Optic shill psyop
>>65335535get with the times, unc.
Stop being poor. I have an entire drawer in my desk filled with them. I will use them in my EDC which is an optics cut PX4
>>65333143No. No no no.. you're not fooling us one bit, anon. Tell us how you REALLY feel about this issue. And don't hold back this time.
>>65333896>>65335479>>65335483>>65335543Gentlemen we need to send OP to a job fair.
>>65333143Shot placement is king, penetration is queen and the rest is angels dancing on the head of a pin. That said, expansion can lead to more tissue damage and thus speed exsanguination, cause greater disruption to the nervous system or more heavily destabilize the skeletal structure. The degree to which specific projectiles may perform this way will vary based on dozens of uncontrollable factors but almost all projectiles designed for incapacitating unarmored humans will outperform their ball counterparts with all other factors being equal.A good rule of thumb in my mind is that anything worth shooting is worth shooting with the most appropriate weapon and ammunition I have available at the time.
>>65335492They already can't recover from the base cost of the gun, accessories are literally unthinkable unless they're the most Walmart slop possible, so the cope is ramped into overdrive
>>65335625>exsanguinationWhat are you a vampire or something?
>>65335585Based and truthpilled.
>>65335625>Shot placement is king, penetration is queen and the rest is angels dancing on the head of a pin. I feel like this cliche is only meaningful if you don’t already take shot placement and penetration as a given. Yeah if you shoot at the arms and stomach then you have a problem but that’s just a no shit kind of deal, you should be improving in that area regardless. Penetration-wise it’s so easy to find loadings that penetrate adequately, and the required amount of penetration is not all that high (the 12 inch standard is meant to provide insurance in suboptimal conditions, it’s significantly more than you need most of the time) that this isn’t an issue unless you are ignorant or fire through auto glass all the time.On the flip side you have cases where a dude dumps an entire mag of .25 ACP in his heart and reloads and shoots himself some more, and mouse caliber sized knife wounds to the heart take like half a minute to incapacitate, and people take well placed nonfragging 5.56 FMJ with minimal effect, and brazilian cops and shooters on ASP dump numerous rounds of FMJ or shit-tier JHPs into a robber’s chest and they take a while to drop. Then contrast that with American LEOs with garbage marksmanship who still manage to sometimes put down suspects immediately with their modern hollowpoints, and even when they fuck up and the guy takes a bunch of bullets, an AAR or autopsy reveals that it only took a couple rounds actually hitting the thoracic cavity to punch the guy’s ticket meaning the pig cop didn’t do that much worse than the off-duty beaner in spite of his much poorer aim.
>>65333143Use what works best at the best price available. If you can't hit what you're aiming at then it's a waste of money no matter what you paid for it. And let's stop pretending that everyone on this board is a operator with expert level marksmanship skill. Most anons the days are larping reddit faggots who think vidya and movies are like real life. Again, if you can't hit the broad side of a barn then it doesn't matter how much your setup costs or what type of ammo you use.
>>65333143op doesn't have a reloading bench, core swaging dies, precise scales, primo powder selection, proper boollit lube, primer Lacquer, chronographs, or FBI Rated ballistics gelFuck me I don't expect my Lyman Keith +p 160Gr handcast .38 Spl FBI loads to work like Hydrashocks, but I don't expect my home grown refrigerator pickles to be as mildly salty, crisp and evenly flavored as something from Grillos.I cant really understand getting so butthurt you blame people with money who want to know that the expensive ammo they've been paying for actually fucking works. Idk go to a racetrack and get pissed off because the cars go fast and the people are cheering them on
>>65333143This is "I wish to cease this plasma physicist's biological function" ammo not "magdump at trash" ammo you dimwitted cumfunnel.
>>65335778Only poors reload
>>65335752my EMT grandfather actually responded to a an hero attempt with a .25 the guy didn't live but he suffered immensely and the gun was empty, he didn't go for his head.
>>65335782Retards like you buy construction tract houses that fail inspections
>>65335752>take shot placement and penetration as a givenHence the statement. I specifically said those things at the beginning so as to preclude any statements like "if you hit them in the right spot and your bullet goes deep enough, what bullet you used doesn't matter." Which, on it's face, is a true statement and history has proven that holes of almost any size in major parts of the circulatory system, central nerve core and structural bones tend to incapacitate in short order. Exceptions exist, of course, but this holds true much more often than not. I'm unsure if you're trying to add to the discourse or engage in some sort of debate; your post doesn't clearly convey intent. But my point was that projectile design does provide advantages that cannot be ignored and you'd be well served to select the proper projectile for a given target if allowed the opportunity. To me, this means arming defensive weapons with loads specifically engineered for optimal performance on soft targets. Just the same, I'll be shooting powder-coated lead at paper. The right bullet for the intended target.I don't intend to disparage anyone who doesn't have the luxury of discernment be that a result of their financial situation or another factor not immediately under their control. But I do intend to defend the proposition that bullets designed to perform better on soft targets can and do provide meaningful advantages over those designed for range use or another purpose.
>>65333143>I use cheap shit. If you use premium ammo, if you use what everyone recommends, you're just a fucking idiot and a sucker.Why are you shooting home defense ammo extensively? You should be shooting cheaper ball ammo to practice and stockpile. I have couple boxes of hornady critical defense that I keep as emergency ammo that I rarely shoot.
>>65333159/thread
>>65335625If you hit them in the right spot and your bullet goes deep enough, what bullet you used doesn't matter.
>>65335821>holes of almost any size in major parts of the circulatory system tend to incapacitate in short orderThat doesn't seem to happen though. Even the high profile shootings that supposedly demonstrate .22's ample lethality are frequently very underwhelming from a defensive perspective, Mark Coates for example stayed on his feet for over 20 seconds after getting hit in the aorta and remained lucid for even longer. Then you have accounts where MP7 users are needing to put over half the mag into their targets to put them down, and all the other shit I mentioned.>structural bonesI don't know about that either. Fackler comments that a small hole in the pelvic girdle isn't likely to do much to compromise structural support, and out of all the large structural bones in the body, it's by far the easiest to target. I think he underestimates the effect of well-designed service caliber JHPs since they tend to produce significant shatter and cracking around the point of impact, but I wouldn't expect nearly as much out of FMJ, especially not smaller calibers.>I'm unsure if you're trying to add to the discourse or engage in some sort of debateI'm offering critique on the old saying. It implies that, if your shot placement and penetration are fine, then nothing else matters very much. In reality it seems to be very common that good shot placement and ample penetration coupled with poor terminal performance results in underwhelming effect.Likewise you would get the impression that almost no amount of accuracy or penetration are worth sacrificing for increased wounding effect, but this is just not true either. What I mean when I say "take shot placement and penetration as a given" is that, if your marksmanship skills and bullet penetration are already reasonable, then it's folly to continue to hyperfocus on modest improvements in those areas at the expense of near complete neglect of other factors.
>>65336268To offer parallel to this, it might be like saying "Sword material is king, technique is king, and sharpness is an angel dancing on the head of a pin". Yes, if you show up with an aluminum or plastic sword, or you swing your weapon around like a chimp with a baseball bat, then you are lost, but then you're just defining and minimizing the usefulness of the third element in reference to bottom tier retards. It's not all that useful of a statement for anyone who's actually competent.But if you look at more sensible levels of proficiency and quality, then factors like medieval vs modern spring steel, or a fencer who's 10% "better", aren't likely to matter nearly as much as a sword honed sufficiently well to bisect a man versus one that can't even hack an arm off with a fully powered blow. Same deal with guns really, almost everyone is gonna shoot better with 5.7 or .30 SC flat point FMJ or AP nondeforming solids than a hot service caliber JHP, and most people will probably shoot better with a P90 loaded with said solids than a 5.56 AR loaded with fragmenting hollowpoints, and in some cases those less damaging rounds have better penetration too, but those aren't actually likely to be better choices in spite of common appeals towards an extremely disproportionate importance of shot placement and penetration.
>>65335463Ahh a classic. I used to hate seeing this but now it’s a nice touch
>>65336428>optic crutch cope
