How would you design a tank from the ground up to survice modern warfare like the one in ukraine?
>>65334032You don't. You design a doctrine and force composition that allows the tank to survive and do what it's built for.
Honestly, all that is really needed is an RWS upgrade that protects against FPV style attacks, and a separate active protection system to protect against proper ATGMs. Other than that, modern western MBTs are basically fine, and a ground up new MBT design would end up looking pretty similar to current entries given that upgrade package.>>65334085Against some drone related threats, yes, doctrine is the answer, but FPVs in particular are cheap enough and dispersable enough that eliminating their threat sufficiently with doctrine is basically a fantasy unless you plan to kill almost every uniformed human life within 20km of the front with air power before moving vehicles up to the frontline, so there does need to be some sort of technological solution, and that solution needs to be in extremely close proximity to the assets it is protecting because of how close to the earth FPVs can fly. Which is why the long term solution is likely to look something like active protection + AA RWS to counter small drones, plus interceptor drones of various sizes and cheap guided munitions like APKWS to engage longer range kamikaze drones and observation drones (plus traditional missiles to kill real cruise missiles and unmanned aircraft).
>>65334085Truth, invest in phasers
>>65334032Ukraine isn't a Modern battlefield.Slavs, like Arabs default to ww1 trench warfare even when given modern technology. Drones are only effective in the current conflict because neither side has air superiority
>>65334337profoundly small-minded take
>>65334032>leave existing MBT as is>attach SPAA to armoured units
>>65334337Ukraine is just peer warfare without anyone getting air superiority. We are use to sending the most powerful airforce on earth to bomb mud huts, without it things get bad fast.
>>65334236>unless you plan to kill almost every uniformed human life within 20km of the front with air power before moving vehicles up to the frontlineWell the answer to artillery and machine gun positions back in WW1 was mustard gas. Some pro-Russian sources indicate that the Russians are targeting drone operator stations behind the frontline with ballistic missiles.
>>65334032>modern warfare>like the one in ukrainePick one.
>>65334385>launch a million dollar missile at 2 guys in a dugoutJesus christ are they really this desperate and/or stupid, or are they just lying through their teeth.No, wait, this is Russia. I should just assume all three.>WW1Last I checked, chemical weapons failed to break the stalemate in WW1, while tanks (at its core a technological solution) helped greatly in this regard at the end of WW1 and largely prevented WW2 from also turning into an attritional shitfest.
>>653340321. Starting with running gear needs hybrid electic drive or at least massively improved electric power generation capacity with large battery. It need be able to effeciently support large power demand (kilowatts) 24/7.2. Swap large bore cannon for medium caliber auto canon capable to defeat air targets.3. Vision system should be build around integrated all around multiply visible spectrum and thermal cameras able to spot FPV drones hundreds meters away automatically with AI image recognition.Same cameras feed used by crew to drive tank and attack land targets. No conventional periscopes and direct vie optics.4. Additional armament should be MG armed RWS capable to defeat FPV drones.5. Close range fast reaction speed APS like iron fist with multiply automatic reloads.6. Armor more evenly distributed with more attention to top and read armor.7. Crew of 4. Commander, driver and two gunners. Two gunners needed for constant air defense duty, so two, standing constant watch in shifts.Basically tank should be AA land cruiser, able to defend itself and friendly forces form pesky FPV drones first, and everything else second.
>>65334568>Last I checked, chemical weapons failed to break the stalemate in WW1The ultimate solution to the trenches was- strict and accurate mapping of the terrain&all machine gun and firing position- shitton of livens projectors (primitive, large-bore mortars) delivering explosive and gas shells on the enemy trenches- creeping artillery fire- mustard gas on artillery and machine gun positions to suppress the crew by forcing them to suit up- tanksSo no, chemical weapons themselves did not break the stalemate, but within the mature doctrine, they did their part.
>>65334337How is ground operation to take strait of Hormuz going?Green zone in Baghdad status?
>>65334568>Last I checked, chemical weapons failed to break the stalemate in WW1, while tanks (at its core a technological solution) helped greatly in this regard at the end of WW1 and largely prevented WW2 from also turning into an attritional shitfest.This
>>65334673Stalemate if WWI wasn't broken by any of this, WWI remained attritional warfare to the end.Stalemate was broken in WWII by matured tanks.Now tanks are countered by FPV drones and we're are back to WWI
>>65334568>>65334676The point was that we've dealt with entrenched positions like that before. Mustard gas turned out to be a good answer as it made touching and operating artillery and machine guns a real hassle and force a clean-up if they had any plans to keep using the position. Could still be useful for all the FPV equipment.We know that no major player is going to consider their use escalatory either.
>>65334673>The ultimate solution to the trenches wasRelatively small groups of disciplined well trained assault infantry infiltrating as close as possible before launching sudden and overwhelming attacks with shitloads of grenades, preceded by short but intense and accurate bombardments from artillery and mortars.
>>65334085That's the kind of thinking that led to the TOG. As it stands, the tank's armor remains superfluous in the face of top-attack drones, missiles, AND artillery which all strike at the historically thin vehicle roof. Why armor the front of the vehicle when 9/10, that's not where it's getting hit?
>>65334746Dolchstoßlegende intensiviert.
Something like the EMBT, unmanned turret covered in sensors and APS and with multiple anti-drone turrets.
>>65334032People always talk about flying saucers, but why aren't saucer tanks a thing? Clam shell design would be pretty good i think. Instead of boxes.
