>dropping an aircraft carrier at 7km/s on earth would have less energy than a strategic nuke from a submarineSo even aliens would just nuke us instead of dropping giant rocks that would shatter in the atmosphere
>>65336811No. Aliens would just park in orbit and watch civilization crumble as everyone panics because humans are fucking stupid and greedy. We would just mop up after the major powers destroy each other trying to secure resources.
>>65336822>cattle-mutilating anal-probing fingers typed this
Why would they, when there's perfectly good rocks just floating around up there? I think you're downplaying how impressive it is that just dropping something large from height has similar effects to nuclear weapons that took our best minds decades to figure out. Rods from god was certainly shit, but they were never supposed to have big yields, they were supposed to have high penetration and not be easily intercepted.
>>65336811>I can't figure out how a non-nuclear strike that completely ignores all early warning and defense systems can be useful>I'm going to make everyone aware of my intellectual disabilitiesWell done OP, you have convinced us you are an idiot.
>>65336838>Why would they, when there's perfectly good rocks just floating around up there?are you really suggesting flying out to capture an asteroid and then keeping it in orbit to wait until you need it? or are you going to have your space force fly out to the nearest one on emergency mode every time you want to provide orbital support? versus just putting that effort into more missiles?god i fucking hate rockfags.
Getting an Aircraft Carrier into LOIC would be exponentially more expensive than just making more strategic nukes.
Fucking LOIC. LEO of course.Although LOIC would be cheaper.
>>65336811The amount of effort it would require to take a rock of sizable mass out of our own asteroid belt to fling at us is reason enough to ditch that idea entirely and simply nuke us to oblivion
>>65336850Theres a massive rock sitting right next to the earth, and an interstellar civilization would have no trouble breaking pieces off to throw at us.
>>65336811depends on their intentions. radiation universally fucks shit up, and is a pain to deal with. laser bombardment is impossible through thick enough atmosphere. anti-matter particle bombardment may also be difficult-to-impossible through atmosphere, and could induce radioactivity, but it is a particularly efficient way to destroy things if your civilization can produce enough of it.in a war of conquest for resources though, coilguns and railguns are the easiest to use for bombardment of a planet with atmosphere, even if the effect is less than a nuke. but for raw resource extraction, unless organic materials are what they need, many other planets in the solar system would be easy to mine, and once you induce Kessler Syndrome you can safely ignore the monkey planet for a decade or so, having completely stripped their ability to do any spece logistics, while you strip mine the area and figure out what to do with them long-term. depending on the power you're slinging about you can try to deorbit the moon and induce exceptional natural disasters as a result, sufficiently dislodge a large chunk of the moon and you can hurl that at earth for for a double whammy if you can only get a large explosion rather than a slow push over a decade, there's options.though if it's just pure 'extermination' yeah just nuke 'em with thermonuclear/fusion bombs.
>>65336872>radiation is hard to deal with >a complete vaporization of tectonic plates via moon crash is easy peasy come on now
>>65336872>though if it's just pure 'extermination' yeah just nuke 'em with thermonuclear/fusion bombs.Just deorbit the moon.
>>65336869versus just shooting us with missiles or generic orbital bombardment? it also leaves the planet fucked up.
aliens with interstellar travel would be so insanely superior to us that it would be like a /k/ommando going out of his way to magdump into an anthill 45min away. not saying it doesn't happen, but its retarded
>>65336869In one of his books Thomas Friedman predicted a resurgent Japan doing pearl harbor 2 on the US with moon rocks from their eventual lunar base
>>65336811If they have the ability to travel space in a time frame that is suitable for well, living, they can do a lot worse than we can imagine.
Aliens don't exist
>>65336945why not
>>65336847Thanks for revealing you don't know what you're talking about
Any space faring civilisation that wished harm on another civilisation wouldn't bother with conventional weapons if they wanted to wipe them out. They would abduct a few thousand, experiment on them, work out their body defences, then create a pathogen to wipe them and only them out. Any that survive can be removed via conventional weaponry or by another, different pathogen. No enemy is ever going to land on Earth and start firing laser beams at people and be defeated by 5.56 rounds. They just wouldn't care if they were desperate for Earth for some reason.
>>65336951The circumstances of the origin of life is so astronomically unlikely that realistically we are the only life in the observable universe
>>65336973nah, that's not even close to true
Why would aliens even bother us? There's nothing on this planet that can't be had elsewhere, and there is plenty of elsewhere *not* covered in nuke wielding monkeys.
>>65336973>astronomically lol that's the point, the are so many (basically infinite) chances to for life to occur that it is essentially guaranteed to be commonplace. look up the Drake equation.
>>65336973There are 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the observable universe. Each one could have dozens of planets around it. You're saying it's so astronomically unlikely that in 14 billion years we're the only life that has ever formed along with the millions of other forms on life on this planet? Just us? Out of septillions upon septillions of other planets? Big if true. There is literally liquid water on moons in our solar system.
>>65336979>Why would Europeans even bother us? There's nothing on this continent that can't be had elsewhere, and there is plenty of elsewhere *not* covered in spear and bow wielding natives
>>65336811it's more efficient to send asteroids a million years before you arrive by using lasers to heat up the edges of a near miss asteroid to actually hit us instead>heat one side, it nudges it over time
>>65337001more like why would you bother to eradicate a bacterium on a gnat's ass in bumfuckistan so you can have that bacterium's resources
>>65336837Oi, no /pol/itical discussion about reps and dems here!
>>65336945Aliens are here and the reason it's been kept a secret is because they can turn off nukes which would completely upend the current world order.>>65336979One can only guess at the motivations of a non-human intelligence
>>65337012Because you can and evolutionary imperative means if you don't eradicate that bacterium on a gnat's ass could eventually become something that will fuck you up. Bacterium kills thousands of people every year. If humanity could wipe out every nasty bacterium, virus, fungus etc, it fucking would. But that's the point, it can't and those things caused us issues. So if a space faring civilisation sees us, why would it ignore us and go>Ah fuck itWhen it is literally easy as fuck to wipe us out or at least knock us back a few tech ages. It's the equiv of the Brits looking at the Zulu's with their spears and shields and going>You know what, forget them, let the Portuguese and French give them guns and shit, I'm sure it'll work out fine.No, they made a reason to go and fight to take over the land.
>>65336887the moon would break up due to the Roche limit, not crash into the planet. i'm presuming we're operating on actual timelines and not space magic instant death where we can shove the moon into the planet. you push the moon towards earth, hit the Roche limit, it breaks up, it no longer induces the same gravitational forces, and suddenly the earth has lost it's normal weather patterns. the ocean fucks up the coasts, the weather induces starvation, and ocean navigation gets real fucky too.you then just tidy up the remaining inhabitants and do whatever it is you want to do to the place. it'd probably be fucking terrifying to be on the receiving end of because not only is there realistically nothing humanity could do to stop it, but you'd see it coming for that entire decade. forcibly relocating populations early would fuck up logistics and induce starvation, if you could even manage to do that without causing societal breakdowns.
>>65336979Certain organic materials are both extremely useful and very difficult to synthesizeLatex, for example, has a myriad of uses but we still milk it from trees because it's very inefficient and difficult to make it in a lab, and there are few, if any, compounds with mechanical properties close enough to latex rubber to be good substitutes
>>65337028you simply don't understand the scale of the things you are talking about. not your fault as nothing in your insignificant experience or evolutionary history has prepared your monkey brain to conceptualize numbers beyond what you can see with your eyes. human hubris in the face of the immeasurable is truly astounding, we still think we are the center of the universe
>>65336973No one knows what the probability of abiogenesis was in the first place since no one knows how it works. Given how quickly it happened after the late heavy bombardment it doesn't seem like it was particularly unlikely.If you meant intelligent life, which does depend on a sequence of seemingly impossible developments then it's a different story, but you said life in general, I doubt you have any basis for that unless you personally figured out exactly how life was made.
>>65337052mate, these are amazinghave you got any maps for the 1,200 or 1,500 light year radius around Earth?
>>65337002Thats something a intrasystem capable low on resources guy A would do to fuck up guy B planet.If guy B is big on resources hed just make a small nuke bombardment ship thats stealthy fling it via kinetic mean to lower its signature and when its near the planet it just empties its missile bays
>>65336973We have no idea how unlikely abiogenesis is. We know it's happened at least once on Earth and that's the extent of our knowledge. It could be happening on a daily or even secondly basis for all we know.
>>65337076nta, get SpaceEngine
>>65337055>unless you personally figured out exactly how life was made.NTA but >lightning struck carbon soup, carbon soup decided to thinkit all loops back to making rocks think, same as boiling water for energy
How much energy would be need to put a carrier in orbit accounting for air resistance
>>65337093Deuterium helium fussion reaction can produce magnetic field to make electricity without water
>>65337076this is a bit dated but still interestinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKBhvDjuy0
>>65337093There is not even the slightest possibility that lightning striking a disorganized soup of "carbon" produced life on its own all at once in a single, random event. It's just that easy huh? Bzzt, and magically the rocks are thinking? If it's so simple why don't you make some life in your basement?
>>65336822>We
>>65336811Technically the most efficient way to fuck us up would be to alter the course of a semi big asteroid by a bit, while it's still very far away.Assuming you are an interstellar species and your predictive models for orbital dynamics on the scale of a solar system are of much higher fidelity than ours, you could just nudge the asteroid a little and watch it whipe us out a few years later.
>>65337012How many worlds do you know that support life my dude?Maybe that is an aspect aliens would take into consideration.
>>65337771more than your pathetic brain could possible comprehend
>>65336850If you can go from one star system to another you can pop on over to the asteroid belt and pick out a few good rocks for slinging.People also do not contemplate how fucking fast asteroids can go or their scale.Rock that wiped out the dinos?>In media>Dinos looking up at the sky as big rock with flaming trail arcs across the horizon, eventually goes boom, dinos r sad :(>In reality>Rock goes from outer atmosphere to impacting the surface in roughly 2 seconds>It is not the size of a Rod from God, or a bus, or an aircraft carrier. It is 15 KILOMETERS wide.If you were directly beneath the impact point->0 seconds- The asteroid appears as an impossibly bright object streaking across the sky.>2~5 seconds later- It strikes the ground with energy equivalent to tens of millions of megatons of TNT.Several seconds to minutes afterward>Depending on your distance, the blast wave arrives. If you're close enough to see the impact directly, you are already dead.>At roughly 350 km away, you'd see the impact instantly, but the sound and blast wave wouldn't reach you for about 15 minutes. Imagine videos of nuclear detonations where you can see the blast wave approaching, now scale it up so much that the blast wave takes 15 minutes to reach you in London if it impacts Paris.Or, for our Zigger propagandist friends here, if it impacts Moscow you could immediately see it from St. Petersburg... But it would take 30 fucking minutes for the blast wave to reach you there*. Imagine, a wall of instant death visible from the horizon that takes 30 minutes to arrive erasing everything in its path. Don't underestimate the power of "throw a rock at them" on a planetary scale.*I can't be fucked to look at a topographical map to put any real effort in to this hypothetical, things like valleys mountains etc will obviously affect it.
>>65337909I fucked up some of the distance measurements, Paris to London is iirc more like 200km and 350 is Moscow to St Pidorsberg, but you get the idea. Big rock go fast, big rock go boom.
>>65336811Kinetic energy scales with a square of velocity. At about 2% of the speed of light a projectile will have same kinetic energy as nuke of equal mass.So they're capable of traveling at speeds allowing for interstellar travel they could just send projectiles at those same speeds.
>>65336811Non human intelligence would see the opportunity to carry out whatever was in their best interests with minimal resistance. Humanity is tribal, superstitious and self destructive. Humans have a tenuous grasp on reality. We can see something, experience something, physically touch something and then deny its existence because it doesn't fit within our belief system. There will never be a "war" with non-human intelligence because humanity is too primitive and afraid to admit they exist. How do you fight something you won't even acknowledge exists?NHI could have wiped us out at any time with a engineered virus. No need to blow anything up, wasting energy and resources. And since they haven't, the logical conclusion is that they are manipulating our progress and possibly even our genetics. Earth isn't a target for a war. It's a farm. Our ancestors were like aurochs, and now we are domesticated cattle. Livestock. The farmer culls the herd, he doesn't wage war against it.
>>65336811>he thinks ayys would drop shit on us at mere orbital velocityHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>65336811>Dyson sphere which only purpose is to power capacitor banks for a railgun Imagine the LHC but diameter measured in AU and powered by an enveloped star.
>>65337909>If you can go from one star system to another you can pop on over to the asteroid belt and pick out a few good rocks for slinging.Not necessarily true
>>65337939https://youtu.be/s7dSfHbfyjY
>>65336973>realistically
>>65337939Humans are the vatniks of the galaxy. Not sure about the universe though, I've seen my share of retardation.
>>65336919This. People underestimate exponential growth all the time. One department where it's really underappriciated is detection. We went from not knowing that there's no galaxies to taking pictures of them from the dawn of the universe and from discovering our own solar system to spectographing exoplanets atmospheres. Species capable of interstellar travel can easily scan every single planet in the galaxy for biosignatures long before they produce any sentient species. Then you just park a drone to the system and give it conditions for sterilization if you're scared of a possible hostile civilization rising up. Both sophisticated bioweaponry and big rocks work.>>65336973Wouldn't be so sure about that. There's lots of other later filters which might be also significantly relevant. Symbiogenesis(mitochondria and chloroplasts), multicellularity, near total freezing of the planet due to biological factors 700&600 MyA and intelligence for example. Humanity came to be in the last 1/10th of this planets habitability. Abiogenesis also happened suspiciously early during this planets lifetime for life to be stupidly rare. We'll have some answers in 20ish years from the missions to moons of Jupiter and Saturnus and maybe mars.>>65337028Not the dark forest meme again. Supervision is easier and more profitable than eradication. Once they/we start building too many datacenters or other scary technology just give them a warning shot from the oort cloud and keep producing some kino interstellar reality TV.
>>65336811no, you attach an engine to a meteor or comet and crash it into earth at speed
>>65336987>look up the Drake equation.I met Drake at a SETI event, sharp even at his age.
>ywn be abducted in a space invasion and forced to have sex with a chinese girl who falls in love with you after knocking her up and living happily together in a human internment camp
>>65338249Why?What benefits are there for doing this? Humanity isn't a realistic threat to any civilization that exists outside of our solar system, and at this stage humanity wouldn't even be a threat to a civilization within this solar system. So why would any advanced civilization waste resources to wipe out an entire planet that could do nothing to them? It's a ridiculous premise.
>>65338271Why would you waste fuel and ammo to invade Sentinel Island? Same thing.
>>65337157does it have to be kept the right way up
>>65336811>dropping an aircraft carrier at 7km/s on earth would have less energy than a strategic nuke from a submarineThose are rookie numbers.>7km/sThe sun orbits the galaxy at 250km/s. The sun's velocity relative to its nearest neighbours is 20km/s. We orbit the sun at 17km/s. Ayys have to go that fast just to get here.>aircraft carrier sizeThere are 140 asteroids just in our solar system with a diameter >100km. There are thousands with a diameter >1km. The density of an asteroid is, on average, almost exactly double the density used to state the displacement of an aircraft carrier.
>>65338267Holy shit I recognise this reference lmao. Shit books though. I often find myself thinking about that series all these years later, wondering how the fuck people like Harry manage to get shit like that published.
>>65336811Considering how many people think dropping a 'rod from god' literally means it falls out of the sky instead of a ballistic path as it deorbits.
>>65336811>Kinetic Bombardment taking out a CarrierYou just played Call of Duty Ghosts, didn't you?
>>65336973>Life beyond EarthExtremely likely>Intelligent life?>Intelligent life that that becomes spacefaring ???Nobody really knows and you also shouldn't just assume that Ayy's will have some scifi technology that enables easy interstellar travel. For all we know, even getting a spacecraft to 70% c is pretty much the best anyone can do. Fermi Paradoxfags also completely ignore how fucking expensive and hard it is to become space faring, even just on an interplanetary level. There could be other Earth's out there in our own galaxy harboring similar assholes like us who all just end up repeatedly blowing themselves up with nukes every now and then and never venturing out because it's just too damn expensive.
>>65336973christfags are so unbelievably stupid
>>65338493Riding on the coat tails of a Confederate tomboy waifu is a power not to be reckoned with.
>>65338648>Fermi Paradoxfags also completely ignore how fucking expensive and hard it is to become space faringWe're at a relatively unique disadvantage on Earth in that a significant chunk of the energy to get anywhere in the solar system is spent getting to LEO in the first place.If Earth were any larger we probably wouldn't even be able to get to space.
>>65338136The Culture a shit
>this threadAny of you read The Killing Star?
>>65338773Wed be limited to probes but once we figure out fussion its not a problem anymore
>>65338549
>>65338267i have read doujins with this plotline.
>>65338773to be fair, a planet much smaller than ours likely wouldn't be able to hold onto an oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere as thick as ours, both because of it's lower mass and the fact that smaller planets tend to not have very strong magnetic fields.oh, even more important: plate tectonics, people tend to gloss over this, but without plate tectonics, water cannot be recycled as it slowly penetrates into the earth's crust, mars would be a dry shithole even if it never lost it's atmosphere, all the water would be locked up in minerals because the planet has no plate tectonics and thusly no vulcanism recycling water back onto the atmosphere/surface.ultimately there's no real way to know because we have an absolutely tiny sample size of well-studied planets (our solar system) but i'd hazard a guess that the earth is actually about the right size balancing between long-term habitability and accessibility to space.
>>65339289>just completely cancel your orbital momentum lolyou're not dropping a piece of inert mass anymore, you're dropping a very heavy rocket performing an incredibly fuel-expensive de-orbiting burn.Also, the entire point of one of these things is that it goes very fast (because of orbital speeds) and therefore transfers all that kinetic energy to the target. You're proposing to make it bleed most of its kinetic energy before it hits anything.the only even somewhat realistic way of creating the concept in the real world would be dropping these things and letting them fall in a ballistic trajectory
>>65336811Aliens have a proper civilization and see earth as a gang of psycho violent rapists who are only contained by our own lack of development, and by the time we threaten the stars it is projected these civilizations will have translated to a higher dimension. So earth will be left to mop up The Undevelops.
>>65336919Sir, that's the vibe of the universe. You're an ant and you built an awesome city and a bear just wanders by and shits on the whole thing, killing half of your family. You're left covered in shit.Think aliens won't do that? And just wander off forgettting it two seconds later?
>>65336979They don't have our really weird porn
>>65339337NTA, but you need to use an eccentric orbitthat way you can lower your orbit with a short burn at Apogee, i.e. you drop your Perigee to be entry interfaceYou still obviously lose energy, but not nearllyas much as by actually cancelling your orbitall velocity.But yeah, it's not like you actually shoot the rod 'downwards' at you target. Orbital mechanics are a little weird for our monnkey brains.
>>65339499it gets really intuitive how orbits work once you've played a bit of KSP but explaining it to the uninitiated through verbal means is really difficult.
>>65339501I know. Pic related, it's pretty accurate.You can read books about transfer orbits and plane changes and circularization burns all weekBut a week of KSP will make you actually understandIt's really sad how KSP2 ended in greed and idiocy.
>>65339522i'm content with modded KSP1.our only hope for a successor is that KSA thing not getting completely ruined by mentally ill discord goblins.
>>65339480That's basically The Roadside Picnic, except even more Russian.
>>65339522>It's really sad how KSP2 ended in greed and idiocy.Elaborate? I'm completely out of the loop.
>>65339701>Elaborate? I'm completely out of the loop.It gets political and there's personalities involved and genuinely discord groups and, somehow, culture-war bullshit is involved, because why wouldn't it be. They sold off the IP to a shell company and they abandoned it apparently.I've never gotten a straight story about it but I also go out of my way to avoid the places that might actually know because I know how much bullshit I'd have to filter to find anything and I'd have to do a very deep dive to even work out who's story to believe in the first place.
>>65339732the main issue with the sequel is that it's still ultimately a carbon copy built on unity, they had barely any actual technically minded coding people working on the backend and everything that made the game tick, they had like 1 or 2.the majority of the team were a bunch of overweight visual effects and audio artists, not people who can actually build a game from scratch.
>>65339701the tl;dr is that the publisher got greedy, plus>>65339732>>65339759To understand how greedy, they were hyping it up in internal emails as 'the new LEGO'This was obviously delusional
>>65336811>7km/sReal meteors are faster
>>65337001timber alone would have made some colonization of north america happen
>>65339863this, the main economy of the early united states was all lumber.
Is there a tutorial for KSP?
>>65339934more than you know what to do with, mike aben's are pretty good for the uninitiated though. the game itself also has a little manual on different aspects of the game, though it's not that extensive and it's missing a lot of common player knowledge.
>you will never call Max a Billy while shitposting in his chat with other Manpats again Thats a feel I didn't know I missed.
>>65337771Theres simple organisms on mars and venus, supposedly.
>>65339477>civilizations that reach Kardashev 2 must necessarily be nice reasonable guys who talk out their problems, don't eat meat, go to therapy; believe in common-sense gun control and think Francis Fukuyama is cool It perhaps implies a lot of cooperation and agreeability within their civilization (but perhaps even that much is assuming too many human thought processes), but it in no way implies that they treat out-groups as part of that. The British empire was at one point the most advanced civilization on earth, and they sure didn't care how many africans or jeets they trampled. If anything their decline began when they stopped brutalizing thirdies.
>>65340473there aren't. it would make headlines all over if there were.as always, it's just "scientists discover more factors which might be conducive to life"naturally, they also never publish as widely when these factors are disproven
>>65336811Who gives a shit about total energy most of the energy in a nuke is wasted anyway, just pick the right target at your leisure and win instantly. If you wanted to dominate the earth with rods from god you just drop them on Dams and power plants and wait for the economic collapse to reduce the population by half in a year.
>>65336979If you're not hyper-ideological you don't get to form space polities, you'd still be on your alien planet shoveling birdseed into the mouths of infinite alien degenerates while the sneaky type of alien drinks your alien children's alien blood.In other words, if you're in space, you're hyper motivated by ideology, and thus what you consider your spiritual imperative when encountering other life forms will be determined by that ideology, not what you actually "need" from them which is nothing.
>>65338136An actual cock worshiping culturefag complaining about Dark Forest, which is just the zoomer generation's gay head up it's ass sci fi concept that needs to die faster.
>>65341295Is Dark Forest bullshit?
>>65341300yes, because you don't get to launch an RKV or anything else for that matter "quietly", everyone else is gonna know where it came from.if every other species notices that your first reaction towards detecting another species is to glass them, your ass is getting glassed too.
>>65341390>everyone sees that you used an RKVAnd how do they do so.
>>65341390>you glass a glasser>an undetected glasser then glasses you>...Yes. The whole point of dark forest to to stay hidden. If there is someone in the forest shooting at every shadow and they suddenly stop shooting, will you yell out?
>>653368117km/s is slow as shit. LEO speed is over triple that.
>>65336811Aliens capable of relativistic speeds don't need nukes either, much less falling rocks. Just don't hit the brakes on one of your approaching spacecraft and the entire planet gets an extinction event.
>>65336822>We would just mop up after
>>65341489Well yes, but to get down from orbit you have to decelerate.And then there is air in the way.
>>65341478no, the point is that most people's reaction to detecting another civilisation is NOT to throw an RKV at them because of this very sequence of events i just describeddark forest is horseshit.
>>65341390Therefore it behoves you to throw as many pre-emptive rocks as possible, just in case. Suddenly, you're the reason the forest is dark.>>65341620>the point is that most people's reaction to detecting another civilisation is NOT to throw an RKVIf that reaction is not completely categorical even among regular everyday humans, how can you make that assumption about an alien intelligence; something we have zero point of reference for?
>>65341620Dark forest is not exclusive to RKV. Humans get dark forest'd with a dimension folding bomb. The method of elimination is not important. But that's not relevant to the thread theme of RKV.
>>65339499This greatly limits what you can target and how long you are actually in firing position
>>65336822>we
>>65341509not by that much. The drag would be ultra low because it's a dart
>>65336822Ayyylmao
>>65336822
