germany has this in 1939.what changes
>>65344698 Germany surrenders in 1945 instead of ... Oh wait nvm.
They run out of fuel even faster.
>>65344698Nothing, because they still can't match the US for manufacturing or raw materials, still can't attack the US mainland, and still have incredibly incompetent leaders that do dumb shit like not preparing for winter during an invasion of the USSR.
i'm sure all 5 of them are amazing.
>>65344715Why does nobody seem to factor in the fact that, while jet engines burn alot more gas, they use far less refined fuels?
>>65344770early jets had shorter lifespans than flies but the engine intended to power the 183 wasn't the jumo, it was a better engine that only had about 11 units completed before the war ended
>>65344778One thing that was, uncharacteristically for Germany, a good maintenance feature of the 262 was that you could swap the engines out quickly and easily. Have a couple extra sets for each airframe and you could have a 262 in service essentially nonstop, because replacing an engine only required a few bolts and the connections
>>65344786that's still extremely wasteful
>>65344698america gets nukes and hitler is proven to be a servant of beelzebub
>>65344698realistically I can't imagine it doing much. They already kind of stomped the allied air forces during the invasion of France. Next would probably be the BoB but I doubt they'd deploy them over England proper since the risk of losing one and allowing the brits to reverse engineer it would be too great, like how the Meteor was employed late war IRL. It would be good at fending off retaliation attacks on the European mainland since the risk of one being captured would be lower over friendly territory but I don't see that being enough to change the outcome.By the time it becomes relevant they're probably on the back foot anyways against opponents who also have jet fighters and are also going to figure out nukes before they do.In any case the technological value of having an experimental jet fighter from 1945 in 1939 is probably worth more than the fighter itself.
>>65344698Since that's the early model with the bad tail design, a couple of pilots die when it flips over on takeoff and then they get shelved. Maybe later they'll dust it back off and figure out the working tail but in Germany's R&D establishment in '39 an early failure was often enough to shelve a design permanently.
>>65344698>germany has this in 1939.>what changesThe Allies start working to develop their own jet technology earlier except with much more urgency and an unlimited budget.
>>65344698They really needed to not listen to hitler on all matters military. He seemed to be a major stop gap as the war went on. Also it woulda probably helped if more men had the mp40 instead of the mauser. Tbh not invading russia
>>65344698>One...more...gorillawafffe...ack!!!
>>65344905ESL AND a tourist.
>>65344698Looks like the little, fat brother of the Mig 15.
>>65344698they fail to build enough of them until 1943 when the air war is better off for them and they might stall the soviets enough for a cease fire around 44-45.>They have all the tech from 1945 in 1939They likely would win until the allies reverse engineer the tech. A a far better window for decisive victories than OTL for 2 years but then they are fucked the same way with everyone being on the mid 50s late korean tech level>They have themselves from 1945 time leapingTodt is immediately fired and they almost guaranteedly win the war but some people like Rommel get purged from the get go with this being a isekai plot rather than althis desu
>the only thing that ever really frightened me during the war was the U-boat peril.T. ChurchillI am convinced that if the Krauts let Dönitz have his target number of 300 boats that he requested before the war began to cut off England with at the start of the war, Germany really could have forced England to sue for peace. I feel that when it comes to "could Germany have won if they did X or Y", the U-Boat arm is criminally underrated and overlooked.Or if they otherwise managed to create a working number of high speed Walther boats, it likely wouldn't have a war winning effect, but it would've been devastating. Or, alternatively, they disregarded the Walther boats and started seriously designing and building Type XXIs at the time (1942) and fielding them in 1943, it would've been a very rude awakening to convoys. That alone still wouldn't have likely changed the outcome though unless they were fielded in large enough numbers. There's a reason everyone wanted a type XXI after the war. >In September 1944 Schnee took command of the new Elektroboot U-2511, one of only two Type XXI U-boats to go on patrol (U-3008 being the other). U-2511's first and only patrol began on 3 May 1945 at Bergen. The next day Schnee received the cease-fire order, prior to the German surrender, and a few hours later spotted a group of British warships. Simulating an attack, he evaded the destroyer screen, closed to within 500 metres (1,600 ft) of the British cruiser Norfolk, and then left the area without being detected. U-2511 returned to Bergen on 5 May to surrender as ordered. Schnee spoke to officers from Norfolk a few days later, who could not believe that U-2511 was able to get so close without any sonar contact. Schnee is said to have requested a comparison of the respective ships' logs, which confirmed his account.
>>65344698>germany has been melting pilots in peroxide since 1939
>>65344905smg teams are fit for infiltration tactics which the krauts were unsuited for. The ideal for these things are the korean war,soviet SMG assaults and the ''kaiserslacht''. Staggering losses of your best men and your equipment being made of so shit a quality that it disassembles itself if unused for 3 weeks are the main drawbacks to my knowledge hence the WW2 krauts using traditional maneuver warfare whenever possible instead
>>65344778>the engineI believe ? the Heinkel-Hirth HeS 011 was a combo centrifugal and axial flow design
>>65344698>what changesBerlin gets nuked by a B-36 crossing the Atlantic.
>>65344698They'll attempt Sea Lion buoyed by their air superiority and bungle it, then get raped by the Soviets on the ground
>>65344786In WW2 aviation, German planes were the best in the world when it comes to ease of maintenance.
>>65345655>inverted V12s>fuselage gear for the 109Fair enough
>>65345534>if the Krauts let Dönitz have his target number of 300 boats that he requested before the war began to cut off England with at the start of the war, Germany really could have forced England to sue for peaceThe problem with that concept is that the success of the uboats early on was in large part due to lack of Allied preparations, which in turn were a result of Germany's comparative lack of investment in them as opposed to their surface fleet. If the Allies see hundreds of Uboats being built but no/few capital ships, then you can predictably see a shift in pre/early war escort building programs. I also suspect that while it might have gotten more results, the attrition rate of German uboats would have reached unsustainable levels faster, simply due to the odds of any particular ASW aircraft spotting a sub
At peak, Germany had 5000 tons of aerial fuel available to them daily. They had to allocate this for training, intercepting, transport, bombing flights.
>>65344715>They run out of fuel faster.One thing I don't get is If Germany had Romanian oil until the end of the war how the fuck did the constantly have fuel shortages?
>>65345544I think you are mixing up two different planes here, anon.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_163_Komet
>>65347121>If Germany had Romanian oil until the end of the warthey didn't though
>>65347121Romania didn't give them oil the whole war. Even when they were giving it, it was nowhere near enough. Not enough vehicles and not even enough oil for all of them. And people wonder why they used horses from day 1 to the end.
>>65345601Unironically this. We will get the Piecemaker timeline.
>>65345534>they disregarded the Walther boats and started seriously designing and building Type XXIXXI was a decent design, not without its own flaws, but XXI class essentially piggybacked off the XVIII design. And to be more specific, classic diesel electric subs still lack the necessary endurance compare to pretty much any AIP system, which Walter turbine could rightly be considered one.>>65347041>then you can predictably see a shift in pre/early war escort building programsThe main bottleneck for Walterboat operation laid primarily with the shortage of HTP itself. Prewar construction of more HTP production plant would likely flew under the radar against any brits Admiralty nooticing. Their main concern at the time was more on the pocket battleship or the scharnhorst. Even if they start questioning, you can pretty much just>Hey there Jerry old chap, ya hot any loicense for that bloody High Test Peroxide factory there mate? That thing is fockin' nutter to mess with.>No of any worry, Tommy englander my friend :^) Just high performance fuel for Bavarian farmer tractors, they love fast tractor down thereOtherwise, more resources could've been diverted to speed up the development and construction of V80 tech demonstrator as far back as earlier half of the 1930s, except the Kriegsmarine actually wasted so much time and resource on useless hulk like Graf Zeppelin, which was clear that they won't have much, if any use in a prolonged war with the Royal Navy.I don't usually recommend wiki, but German edition actually got most details well written uphttps://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-Boot-Klasse_XVII
>>65347276>lack the necessary endurance*necessary submerged enduranceAnd one thing to add, AIP advantage over classic diesel electric relies solely on battery was the reason why Japanese Taigei/Soryu didn't even make it into the shortlist for Canuck submarine procurement program, while gook and germ subs with PEMFC did.
>>65347276If the type XVIII got into service in appreciable numbers, by say, 1943 or so, do you think it would've had a measurable effect on the battle of the Atlantic? Genuinely curious because there's little documentation about the Walter boats aside from "they went fast but were never made"I think I've seen your posts about the subject before and I've been fascinated by it. To me, the battle of the Atlantic is really the only way the Germans could've "won" the war, or at least got a peace deal on favorable terms.
>>65347393only 1939-41 matters for the battle of the atlantic, they needed to choke the UK comprehensively in the period before the USSR and USA entered the war. That was the only point where the UK might have considered a settlement if they were pushed to the brink.Assuming Germany invested much more in better Uboats, had them ready to go, had better coordination with their airforce (luftwaffe were terrible are working with the navy), maybe they could do what the US did to Japan and cripple the UK. Although that didn't make the Japs surrender either.As the other anon said they needed to distract the royal navy with the threat of surface raiders, but actually have 100-300 uboats ready to go for the war start in 39, preferably prepositioned to do maximum damage, hunt for escorts and carriers, then work over the fuel and cargo ships enough to paralysis the UK.
>>65347393IMO, still a coin toss for Germany to put a stop to the convoy system, assuming they can build at least 100 Walter boats along with sufficient HTP production, to enact an effective blockade in the Western Approaches and other North Atlantic areas and the Mediterranean.Walter Uboats projected submerged endurance is about 6-8 hours at 24 knots, likely longer at lower speed. In term of top speed, they are comparable to early nuclear submarine like Nautilus, so active sonar would be ineffective, contemporary ww2 acoustic homing torpedos like mk24 fido was neither fast enough or dive quick enough to catch them, so i see at least 2-3 years head start for germs in ASW warfare before the allies to play catch-up. Reminder that it wasn't until the Mk 45 in the late 50s that the USN at least had something to counter fast attack boats, and let's not pretend that the USN or RN didn't have the same paranoia with the rising soviet submarine fleet back then.And even mk 45 wasn't highly effective in its ASW role even with nuke-tipped, hence the mk 48. Though, with enigma code broken, there's a good chance convoy casualties could be mitigated to a certain degree. And it's remains questionable whether german industry can sustain a prolonged walter boat for at least 2 years to really bring the Brits to the negotiation table.At least with the better survivability of Walter uboats, serving in the Uboat arms would probably be a far more desirable service choice to freezing in the steppes on the Eastern front.
>>65347276>>65349392>>65349451I have the vague impression that bombing had forced the Germans to build these boats in sections at distributed factories, and overall quality control had become so poor that most of the sections did not fit together in final assembly.
>>65344799Not really.Obviously you could service the spare engines while the jet is in use, it's akin to the power packs modern MBTs use for ease of maintenance.>>65345534I suspect them not having their torpedo crisis would have been a bigger factor than access to better or more U-Boats.>>65349471Afaik construction in sections for local assembly was always intended irrespective of the bombing situation.The big issue was that many of the manufacturers had no experience with subs and in turn dropped the ball hard.
Why do people say the nazis would have won if they did x or y? The only way the nazis would have won is if everyone just gave up for no reason. Hitler and the boys did not have the resources or manpower to win ww2 and they were never going too.
>>65347121Russia has russian oil and yet they're constantly running out now
>>65349451>Walter Uboats projected submerged endurance is about 6-8 hours at 24 knots(X) Doubt
>>65349629>The only way the nazis would have won is if everyone just gave up for no reason.To win Nazis need to not declare war on USSR and USA.It's that simple.Imagine you play x3 and start randomly declaring wars on every other largest military power when your locked in the war you didn't finish yet. Noob mistake. Finish Britain first. Win.Churchill has no answer to this little trick.
>>65349750>Walter was a brilliant engineer that in 1933 worked on a new gas turbine at the Germaniawerft shipyard in Kiel and there his idea of a closed circuit propulsion system was born. He dreamed of making a U-boat that would by driven by hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) in a stabilized form called Perhydrol. Disadvantage of this aproach (besides turning your submarine into peroxide torpedo similar that blew up a Kursk submarine) is that you can't recharge your underwater ranger. Your range is limited by whatever peroxide your are carrying.
>>65349750Nta, but there’s figures on the smaller Type XXVI with Walter turbine.„158 sm bei 22 kn“, so 158 nmi at 22 knots, or 7 hours underwater. Similar maximum underwater speed 24 knots.Book is „Deutsche U-Boote: Hundert Jahre Technik und Entwicklung - Stefan Lipsky Florian Lipsky“>>65349825The sub itself should have their own Diesel Engine, Electric Motor, and Lead-Acid Battery like on Type XXI, just with lower power output, battery capacity and range to be enough to creep into a convoy silently.In a way, those are more similar to modern conventional submarine with AIP
>>65344698Is there ANYTHING that the jewssr didn’t copy from Germany??
>>65349560>>65349560Adam Tooze in "Wages of Destruction" had a section on this as I recall. Basically, German High-Command constantly thought they were being scammed by Naval experts and thought that they knew better. The Navy was constantly screaming for more boats to fulfill their orders to destroy British shipping but the dockyards were already at capacity and couldnt be expanded easily. The solution proposed by Nazi insiders was to ignore the experts and instead construct the U-Boats in standardized sections and fit them together onsite to minimize time in the dock and increase throughput. In theory, a reasonable idea. In practice it was full of holes. They wasted so much time planning assembly and working around obstacles, fixing designs, building new facilities, and fixing the inevitable fuck ups (like the aforementioned dissimilar hulls), that assembly rates actually decreased and the scheme was eventually abandonned. A similar thing happened at Ford Willow Run Bomber Plant where the Ford tried to use automotive industry technqiues to speed up airplane asembly speed. By the time they worked through the kinks in the operation they had given up on most of their "improvments", and the war was basically over.
>>65344698Nothing at all. They are better off sticking with the Fw-187. It was far superior to Bf-110 and could’ve been much more effective against RAF
>>65349820>if only they didnt declare war on the ussr and the USA!>Two countries that were going to get involved anywayOh I am laughing
>>65347014They also used power-egg designs for their planes.So if you need an engine swap you just unbolt the whole radiator/engine/propeller unit, and bolt a new one on. Plane is ready to go.
>>65344698 That would probably have England and the U.S. ramp up their own research into jet technology. There would be a good chance that England and the U.S. would go 50/50 on jet engines.
>>65349451what sealed the fate for the germans was the invulnerable factory behind two gigantic oceans getting involved with the war and spamming everybody to death with absolutely zero way of seriously hitting back. Tactical and operational data like knots or submerged hours or armor penetration values mattered little in the this context. US remained practically invulnerable until the advent of ICBMs with magic bombs far exceeding whatever conventional explosives could achieve Even in best case scenario of controlling the north atlantic, the pacific would still be open. Which mean infinite steroids flowing into the pidor union. Which they needed to conventionally knocked out for good in order to win the war in mainland europe and entrench the empire
>>65344715They didn't run out of fuel until they lost Romania, smartass.
>>65352894Exactly. The only Wehraboo fantasy that ever made sense was somehow avoiding US entry and hoping for neutrality That means letting Japan in on the plan in 1941 before the Japan-Soviet agreement. If Japan doesnt hit America and helps invade the USSR I think it could fall. They almost collapsed multiple times despite US and UK aid AND withdrawing eastern troops to help defend Moscoe. If you end that aid, remove those troops, and add the Japanese army then maybe you beat the Soviets and can find a way to peace with the UK once you have the Oil and reosurces needed to take the fight to the rest of the empire.Ultimately you still can't likely invade the UK and you still need the US to stay neutral but you'll probably have european hegemony until Hitler dies and your economic house of cards collapses.You still just end up with a different version of the cold war though, IMO.
>Don't do jetplanes, kids. Or you'll end up like me.
>>65352933>If Japan doesnt hit America and helps invade the USSR I think it could fall.Three poblems:1) I really don't think Japan's in a position to refuse the desires of its Navy faction to start a war with the US2) The US is still hostile to Japan mucking about in what it thinks of as its own back yard and about them stopping foreskin harvesting operations within their Empire. It will eventually ally with the Soviet Union to attack them.3) Can the Japanese even support a land war in Russia after they've pissed off the Chinese?
>>65353028 From what I've read, Japan's Navy wanted nothing to do with fighting the USA. They were, insomuch as anyone, a peace faction in the Japanese government because they knew how little fuel they had and how large the US could scale up production. That said, there was a ton of stuff at play. The Navy couldn't outright say they were unwilling to fight or they would look like cowards. Also, they needed to show that they were willing to fight to ensure they got budget and steel allocation. So they put on a tough face about a possible fight with Britain/France/USA if they seized indochina/dutch east indies. The Japanese government were all over the place. They wanted to exploit the rest of Asia but were wary of fighting multiple opponents or the USA. They wanted easy conquests but misjudged the USA's reaction to their Nazi pact, their ongoing war with China, their Soviet pact, and their invasion of French Indochina. They fumbled every step. They wanted to look strong to prevent a war they couldnt win. Unfortunately every move they did made it look like their were gearing up for a fight. Japan's army had recently fought the Soviets at Khalkhin Gol in 1939. They lost. Badly. They were also involved in an ever growing land war in China. Their army would have wanted nothing to do with a land war in Russia which they didnt have the tanks and artillery for. On top of all that, the oil and rubber the Japanese wanted was in Asia, not Russia. It would have been Germany not Japan who would have primarily benefitted from Japanese involvement against Russia and would have been a challenge to get Japan the Oil from wsstern Russia they would have wanted.I mentioned the idea as the sole way for a different conceivable outcome, not as a realistic thing that could have happened. Even if Japan attacks the USSR there is still a good chance it ends up the same way.
>>65352894>Tactical and operational data like knots or submerged hours or armor penetration values mattered little in the this context Disagree. Shutting down any outbound Atlantic convoy would have had more strategic value than tactical, and advanced U-boats would play a crucial role in this. Tanks and jets can't shut down the Lend-Lease route, be it Britain-bound or at least the Atlantic side of Soviet-bound convoys, nor could they ever make up for the german vast manpower and resource shortfall, so they aren't comparable to submarines in any way.And while the Pacific route did indeed handle almost 50% of total Lend-Lease, interdiction of the Arctic and even Iranian convoys (through larger oceanic U-boats) could still hamper a significant portion of the cargo. Even this russian source admitted that even with western engineers help, the Trans-Siberian Railway could only handle about 36 trains x 700t/train = 25200 tons per day.https://bessmertnybarak.com/en/article/lend_liz/ That's still meager compared to what it would take to handle in case the Atlantic supply lines got ravaged by U-boats, and Pacific route remains unimpeded by IJN. It's still a 5000 miles trip from the Far East to the nearest soviet industrial center. 1000 Me-262 or 10000 Panther can only further deplete german oil reserve, but 100 Walter boats would've stood a better chance at kicking brits out of the war, and by that, deny the US a staging ground for any landing on continental Europe. Even a 21st century US still require base in europe to project their power in the middle east.
If they had better uboats they could have kept raping american ship trying to reach engerland for longer.
>>65344839>Next would probably be the BoB>The Channel turns into another MiG alley, with UKistan and Krautland jets dogfightingOh my, the total Kino.
>>65344698nothing
>>65344698See >>65344715 >>65344900Even greater early successes embolden the Germans to try their luck with Sea Lion and it explodes in their face.Also Berlin gets glassed by Stratojets in 1945 (kino)>>65345615>get raped by the Soviets on the groundOr worse, be so economically bankrupted that they can’t even think of Barbarossa and Nazi Germany winds up a de facto Soviet client state.>>65349629The absolute best Nazi Germany could’ve ever hoped for, short of discovering how to split the atom a decade earlier, was a negotiated settlement where they would likely have to grant significant concessions. And that’s only if they didn’t do stupid shit like Lidice or the Final Solution that effectively torpedoed the regime’s PR globally made any outcome short of its total destruction politically unacceptable.Frankly Hitler is overhated for his shortcomings as a military strategist (his generals were quick to scapegoat him for mistakes that they were just as, if not more, culpable for) and not hated enough for his diplomacy and international PR failures which were Islamic State-tier.
>>65344698Does it come with fuel? If not, nothing.
>>65351646Yeah imagine been Churchill losing war and going to Stalin>Stalin-sama declare war on Germany, pweeese!
>>65347212In fairness everyone at the start of the war was using horses, the French artillery was completely reliant on them for example.
>>65344839>ike how the Meteor was employed late war IRL.Complete rubbish. The Meteor wasn't reversed engineered from me 262, it made its combat debut 3 months after.The first British jet-engined plane flew in 1941, and Frank Whittle had been working on jet engines since the fucking 20s.
>>65345534The "U-boat peril" is somewhat over-exaggerated imo, they never seriously threatened Britain with starvation as some claim; the big threat to Britain was the raw materials needed to sustain the war, particularly oil. But even at their peak "happy times" most merchantmen were still getting through and the u-boat fleet would have had to keep inflicting those type of losses for years rather than the several months they did. >>65347041>>65347276I'd actually say the bigger area of British lack of preparation in anti-submarine operations was in the use - or lack of - of long-range aircraft. Despite the evidence of early success with the Sunderlands and even in ww1, Coastal Command was still continually over-looked and under-invested in until quite late in the war.
>>65344698Lmao now we see where the soviets stole the designs fucking losers
>>65345534Uboats were only a huge danger in the first 2 years of the war when the Brits where using WWI tier ASW tech (depth charges flung from corvettes and destroyers). Once they started applying radar, sonar, hedgehog rockets and especially naval bombers all German submarines became giant floating coffins.
>>65352933>If Japan doesnt hit America and helps invade the USSR I think it could fall. They almost collapsed multiple times despite US and UK aid AND withdrawing eastern troops to help defend Moscoe. If you end that aid, remove those troops, and add the Japanese army then maybe you beat the Soviets and can find a way to peace with the UK once you have the Oil and reosurces needed to take the fight to the rest of the empire.Japan didn't attack the USSR because they had already waged a huge border war with their most battle hardened land units and finally got their teeth kicked in at Khalkin Gol. People think of it as just a skirmish between border forces but it was a full on battle with about 60k men on each side. The fantasy scenarios about how "Japan could have helped Germany during Barbarossa" completely ignore the fact that the Japs already had their ass handed to them, realized they couldn't win a conventional land war against the Russians if they attacked again, and the Soviets maintained a huge reserve army (something like 1.5 million men) in the far east anticipating this exact scenario.
>>65357775Type VII and IX were also largely WW1 techs with some minor improvements. Hence the what-if scenario where German focused more on developing Uboat techs during the interwar period
>berlin gets nukedStatisticaly 55% of all bombers crews died durying the war.it would get shootdown before it can release its bomb, or the bomb would get shreded by flak either way
>>65344756>>65344713>nothingMidwits detected.Of course things change, but you're do butthurt about a war that happened almost a century ago that your emotions blind you to nuance because you're spiritual homosexuals without human souls.
>>65344905>They really needed to not listen to hitler on all matters militaryHe had a lot of very good ideas, was very informed on the newest military literature and people not listening to him caused much more damage than vice-versa.E.g. he was clearly right about his sickle-cut in France (Manstein came up with it independently too, no other general agreed with it), he was right when he demanded the long 75 to be the standard gun of all tanks before the war already and he was right about the Kübelwagen and MG needing to be air cooled. Having to carry water to MGs in WWI seems to have driven that lesson home quite well.
>>65349820>Imagine you play x3 and start randomly declaring wars on every other largest military power when your locked in the war you didn't finish yet. Noob mistake. Finish Britain first. Win.Arrogant retard.America was at war with Germany in all but name and American ships had orders to fire on German ships already while Stalin was preparing to go to war himself.Everybody involved was more informed and intelligent than you. Have some humility, nigger.
>>65357334>and not hated enough for his diplomacy and international PR failures which were Islamic State-tier.He was pretty well-regarded pre-war. Propaganda and unprovoked hostility by paid off traitors like Churchill has people projecting later opinions. Chamberlain was a weak but good man and overall much more representative for his people and politicians than Churchill.
>>65358405Hitler miscalculated going into poland, he did not expect the UK to throw down into a total war. But he forced himself due to the nature of the military build up. he also ordered a delay during the battle of france which allowed the brits to escape, he pushed them to do barbarossa which was an incredibly irresponsible military operation and ignored all the logistics guys who said it was impossible, he further delayed the opening of barb by charging into the balkans. He distracted the potentially earlier push on moscow by redirecting army group centre south. He allowed huge inefficiencies across the entire war economy by allowing duplications and empire building by various factions to run rampant. speer was able to make improvements but by then it was too late. declaring war on the us was also foolish and rather he should have done everything possible to restrain japan, no sure if that was possible but there was no way to win against both the us and ussr simultaneously.
>>65358451>Hitler miscalculated going into poland, he did not expect the UK to throw down into a total war. But he forced himself due to the nature of the military build up. He did not underestimate the brits, he overestimated their foresight, humanity and ability to resist traitors like Churchill. His anglophilia was among his greatest faults.>he also ordered a delay during the battle of france which allowed the brits to escapeHe didn't, the guy he put in charge did and after the brass had repeatedly disobeyed him and outran their supply-lines Hitler said they'd better start listening to him or heads would roll. Bad timing, really.>he pushed them to do barbarossa which was an incredibly irresponsible military operation and ignored all the logistics guys who said it was impossibleWhat would be the alternative? Let Soviets build up and roll them?>he further delayed the opening of barb by charging into the balkans. May wanna look up why there.>He distracted the potentially earlier push on moscow by redirecting army group centre south. Which worked really well. The USSR likely would not have magically fallen due to Moscow.>He allowed huge inefficiencies across the entire war economy by allowing duplications and empire building by various factions to run rampant. speer was able to make improvements but by then it was too late.Vastly overestimated compared to other nations (see: bomber mafia) just like Speer's role in fixing it. The guy who out that in motion had worse propaganda though.>declaring war on the us was also foolish and rather he should have done everything possible to restrain japan, no sure if that was possible but there was no way to win against both the us and ussr simultaneously.See >>65358432
>>65358470>propaganda*PRCan't even remember his name which kinda supports my point. Similar to Guderian, Speer gets tons of credit for things people did who couldn't contradict him since they were too busy being dead.
>>65358470>He didn't, the guy he put in charge did and after the brass had repeatedly disobeyed him and outran their supply-lines Hitler said they'd better start listening to him or heads would roll. Bad timing, really.For context: The Haltebefehl happened like a day or two later.Though with how stretched the lines were it's questionable whether much would have changed about the British evacuation even without it
>>65358451>But he forced himself due to the nature of the military build up.Pre-WWII diplomacy is a complicated topic, but Tedor wrote about it in Hitler's Revolution with lots of it based on French and British diplomatic sources.Too much to discuss here, but the tldnr us that Hitler really did try to give mutual disarmament a chance in the first years, made lots of concessions, was ready to take the first step repeatedly and it was met again and again with insane demands by Britain and France, often after already coming to a provisional agreement that was then undermined by new demands (usually by France with British tacit agreement, sometimes both) shortly before signing or working out the details. Eventually Hitler left the league of nations precisely because it was a pointless organization just meant to bog him down due to the bad faith negotiations by Britain and France. THEN he started seriously building up his military as a diplomatic tool.I could mention plenty of other things, like the Carte Blanche for Poland or French continuous attempts to get Germany embroiled in a war in the east contrasted by Polish continuous attempts to talk France into attacking Germany together (ecen before Hitler took over), but you should probably just read it yourself. It's interesting and the diplomats quoted were pretty candid about some of the reprehensible shit they did in internal communications
>>65358470only traitor I see is a guy who thinks uk giving up hegemony of europe to nazis is good. And looks like you agree it was an error to pull the leash in france, k. with the ussr, you have no shot at beating them with uk blockading, but you have a chance at strangling the uk if you can focus 100% on it, while trading with the ussr which they were doing till the last second. doesnt matter why you went to the balkens it cost them weeks, there is plenty of history about the battle of kiev and it does not look like the proper choice, of course barb was not the right choice either way, it was unwinnable. The german war eco was massively more inefficient than any western country, canada made more vehicles than germany. im sure everyone here has read tooze and that explains why nicely. there is a huge difference between america fighting a war of choice with all the political calculations needed to balance the non interventionists, vs. a war which the usa was attacked and declared war upon. rather than having the dickhead republicans trying to stay out of it they could complain about how the war was not being fought right, completely changing the calculous. its easy to wait out the us in a war they dont want...
>>65344698They are forced to abandon them because they cost too god damn much
>>65358518"complicated" bro, germany immediately repudiated its debts, by 1936 germany was out there spending an unprecedented amount of gpd on a military build up while invading and pillaging its neighbours. but sure blame the brits and france for playing hardball in the face of that.
>>65358672You know that Germany wasnt spending money they had right? MEFO was a scheme to get German industry to build military goods for promises of payment that were funded by plundering conquered territories.
You would use a time machine to travel back in time to help Nazi Germany win the war. I would use a time machine to travel back in time to help Nazi Germany design and build more weapons of war, so that they will make an appearance in video games in the future. We are not the same.It is imperative that the Ta 183, turbine powered Panther tank (BMW GT 101) and the Entwicklung series are built.
>>65357689That's not what he was saying. He (correctly) said that the British were extremely adverse to operating the Meteor over German territory over fear of it being captured, and speculated that the Germans would have a similar fear about using any theoretical early-war jet over Britain
>>65358518>he thinks Hitler was totally reasonable to demand Czechoslovakia and Poland and it everyone else was in “bad faith” go back to stormfront retard, or perhaps try reading an actual book not written by a Nazi-apologist.
>>65352933>somehow avoiding US entry and hoping for neutralityWhich was never part of German planning, they just hoped that they would win against the soviets before america could mobilise its army and economy. Had they won the hope was to negotiate a peace that would let them rule Europe, lick their wounds for a generation or two and prepare for a rematch.
>>65344698 >germany has this in 1939How?
>>65344698Nothing, because they entered a war of trucks with horses and carts.
>>65358672>>65359693>reading comprehension level: subhuman>>65358554>only traitor I see is a guy who thinks uk giving up hegemony of europe to nazis is goodBecause splitting up Europe between commies and Americans worked out so well lmao>Canada made more vehicles than germany.And most of Russia's trucks weren't Russian.It's almost like different situations in war can free up a lot of capacity or deny them when you're completely safe from attack or get massive lend lease.Don't be a one-step thinker.Didn't read anything else from your post since you genuinely seem kinda retarded and unable to comprehend complex scenarios.
>>65354554>Shutting down any outbound Atlantic convoy would have had more strategic value than tactical, and advanced U-boats would play a crucial role in thisYou simply don't shut down US convoys. The US was building more escort carriers than most nations were building destroyers.They quite quickly invented ahead-firing ASW weapons and excellent sonar systems.Even the XXI would've only had a limited time to stunt the convoys before they themselves would become prey.
>>65358753I would help France to not be shit, but not to much so war turns into stalemate like fist one. So we would have more French tanks
i will never understand how retarded tankie-ism has become more widespread and prominent instead of more laughable and reduced. why is everyone so retarded?
>>65358470>>He distracted the potentially earlier push on moscow by redirecting army group centre south.>Which worked really well. The USSR likely would not have magically fallen due to MoscowThis was probably his greatest strategic insight that led him to start micromanaging for the rest of the war. The entire general staff was obsessed with seizing Moscow which Hitler intuited would not lead to the collapse of the USSR but a repeat of Napoleon's 1812 campaign on a larger scale. The Soviets had already withdrawn their industry to Siberia and would have also withdrawn to another city further interior. The German army was exhausted, overextended and running low on supplies and he was aware that the Soviets would fight for every inch of Moscow's soil in an urban combat meatgrinder that would make Stalingrad look like a skirmish.Hitler's goal for Barbarossa in the long term was always to seize the Ukraine for is agricultural land and the Caspian oilfields. If the invasion had started the way he envisioned it, the German army would have drive straight to Baku via Ukraine and sidestepped Moscow entirely.
>>65344698Can they fuel then , produce them, train pilots?X weapon would have saved Germany is a low IQ take, their problems wouldn't have been solved by anything short of nukes.
>>65344698germany hemorrhages pilots faster while stukas are left defenseless since theres less bf109 coverage and jets dont cover to londonallies target manufacturing harderus advancement in tactics fighting zeros pushes in the shit of germanys remaining aircraft post blitzgermany runs out of strategic materials fasterallies get jets before d-day, pushes germanys shit in harder during the bulge
>>65349560the abrams is a wasteful hunk of shit
>>65357793As you can see in my follow-up post, >>65354118, I am aware of Khalkhin Gol and Japan's subsequent reluctance to fight the Soviets. That said:1. The Soviets did remove something like 400K troops from the east during various points of the war. They only replaced them once the crisis was over. While Japan dramatically scaled up its involvement in China all the way up to 2.5M men which could have been used against the Soviets. Japan did seek US help to negotiate an exit from China multiple times. Maybe Germany could have figured something out which would have freed forces for Russia. 2. 50% of all Soviet aid passed though the east without molestation from Japan. This would be cut off by Japan in a theoretical war. The Persian corridor was vulnerable to being cut off if the Nazi advanced to the caucuses and had throughput issues. 3. Japan's Navy consumed vast amounts of Steel and investment leading up to 1942 which prevented their army from developing the artillery and mechanization needed to properly fight the Soviets. If Japan knew they were fighting Russia they might have been able to redirect investment as soon as 1938. 4. The Japanese did consider the Soviets their main adversary which is why they joined the Anti-Comintern Pact. The Nazi's doing a 180 foreign policy-wise without consulting Japan made the Japanese wary of them. Despite this, Yosuke Matsuoka the man who NEGOTIATED the pact with Stalin still advocated betraying the Soviets and joining the German invasion before the Pearl Habour attack.5. They Japanese don't actually need to destroy the Soviets in the east. Tying up men, materiel, cutting off critical supplies, and attriting the eastern army might be enough to create a victorious feedback loop in the west. This isn't a realistic thing, just the only way I can see an actual Wehraboo fantasy victory. Russia falling and the US not entering the war is the only way I can see Britain being willing to negotiate.
>>65347121Fuel trucks ran out of fuel
>>65360764>Can they fuel thenYes, jets work with fucking kerosene which is far more common than 100 octane avgas>produce themYes, jets are actually cheaper to make than piston engines.>train pilotsAbsolutely if they are getting them in 1939 of all years lmao. Less will be shot down if they're flying Ta-183's up against LaG-3's.
>>65359968>The US was building more escort carriersEscort carriers didn't sink subs. The aircrafts onboard it, did.>They quite quickly invented ahead-firing ASW weapons and excellent sonar systems.It's called the Hedgehog, you might as well throw in Mk.24 Fido, which again, would be highly ineffective against fast attack subs.And ww2 sonar was useless for speed regime above 10 knots, which brought a whole new degree of problem in ASW back then. Sure, the sub itself would also be literally deaf moving at 20 knots, but you don't catch them with 12 knots acoustic torpedo, as the case with Fido, or unguided Hedgehog or depth charge, either. And they can sustain that 20 knots for many hours.http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/S/o/Sonar.htmSeriously though, that's a lot of buzzwords thrown around without any substance.
>>65366542>Escort carriers didn't sink subs. The aircrafts onboard it, did.Good thing America had infinite fucking aircraft lmao.>It's called the Hedgehog, you might as well throw in Mk.24 Fido, which again, would be highly ineffective against fast attack subs.Both would work against the XXI, just not as well as against the VII and IX. The XXI could not go full speed nonstop, and you're implying that advances in ASW would not take place to counter such a submarine in the first place?
>>65360110A combination of shit here getting way worse for living prosperously, the left exploiting our system and liberties to convert people, and the right continuing to be more inept despite majority victory.
>>65366554>Good thing America had infinite fucking aircraft lmaoAnd how will you get the carrier-based ones to operate in the middle of the Atlantic, smart ass?Was CVE supposed to be immune to torpedoing or something?>Both would work against the XXIExcept the discussion is about the boat operating on Walter turbine. Are you being intentionally retarded?And even against XXI, aside from some odd(more like vintage) ones like RBU-6000, both depth charge and hedgehog were all phased out from ASW.Now, what's the primary ASW weapon in every major martime power? It's called Acoustic homing torpedo. And you're trying to say countering a 24 knots submarine with a 12 knots torpedo would work? Guess the first dedicated ASW torpedo? It's the Mk 45 with 8-11 kT warhead. As seen from Hardtack test results, specifically shot Umbrella, 6000ft is a guaranteed safe distance for a ww2 sub hull targeted by a Mk 45 type warhead. So even nuke-tipped ASW wasn't all that effective, save for the giga huge ones.And it took the USN until the 70s to come up with a non shitty solution for fast and deep diving attack sub in the Mk 48, despite things, and sub arm race already been heating up on both side of the Iron Curtain for over two decades.>you're implying that advances in ASW would not take place to counter such a submarineDo cite anywhere in my posts to ever claimed that counter to fast attack submarine was ever impossible? The point being raised is whether the advatange of Walter boats could ever enable a blockade of Britain for at least 2-3 years, and to a larger extend, even a complete shut down of any Lend lease convoy on the Atlantic side, to completely nullify the Arctic and Iranian route.And the potential of Walter boats wasn't something i pulled out from my ass, several authors, even in german has been discussed that. But yeah, congrats on earning your well earned, and last (you) for being a dense bonehead, it has to be a special kind of halfwit to be this dense.
>>65344698>what changesnothing, because wunderwaffles don't decide wars
Just as fighter sweep operations drove German fighters into a corner during aerial combat, hunter-killer groups were able to break away from direct convoy escort duties to focus exclusively on hunting submarines. Had there been multiple defensive lines to penetrate, it likely would have been difficult to effectively employ the Walter propulsion system, given its limited operational range.
>>65367763>redditspacingJej, you almost had me there, cool ragebait bro.
>>65357987Nah Berlin is getting vaporized, B-29s were made to look like weather and recon flights and they carried out fake attacks with a single bomb tons of times before the actual attack to see how they would react. The Luftwaffe in 1945 was in a pathetic state with fuel and pilot shortages, there's no way they'd prioritize the opening act over the rape train that would follow and even if they did there's no guarantee that the pilots would even make a successful interception.
>>65357987>Statisticaly [sic] 55% of all bombers crews diedNot relevant to the result.
>>65360780>>65360781Is this LLM-generated ESL posts?
