>Germany had ~40,000 men garrisoned on the Channel Islands on D-Day>30,000 still remained after D-Day>Extensive fortifications were also built thereWHAT WERE THEY THINKING?
>>65345564The Germans thought the Allies were going to want to take the islands to use as a base for an invasion of France, then after the invasion happened without the islands being taken the German garrison was effectively cut off and could not be evacuated.
>>65345564IIRC, by the time the High Command realized they should've withdrawn them, the soldiers were stuck there. Any attempt to evacuate would've had the transport flotilla bombed to pieces.
>>65345564I don't know why but both the Germs and Japs thought the Allies would need to capture every fucking island of theirs before they could invade their homeland
>>65345564They weren'tThat's why they lost and did retarded shit like that
>>65345583It's the chud way. Chud games work on the same basis.
>>65345583Yes, it makes no sense. If your island garrison cannot meaningfully interfere with the enemy's naval ops, your troops are de-facto stuck in a self-constructed internment camp.
>>65345583In Hearts of Iron 2, you can't annex the US without occupying Hawaii
>>65345608denying the enemy a forward base makes no sense? the channel islands would have been a perfect base to launch a landing operation with litte warning time from. and air strikes on the mainland. it would have been incredibly stupid to leave them undefended, especially since there was no way to retake them once lost.
>>65345654Nobody is launching an invasion from the channel islands
>>65345608Not capturing all the enemy's territory is very dishonorable. The Allies may have won but their victory has an asterisk
>>65345663yeah because there was a german garrison there. the bretagne would have been a good place for the landing because it was very remote and the germans would have had even more trouble relocating troops there than they had in normandy. the area is still hard to get to even today while there is literally a highway fromparis to normandy. plus it has several deep water ports so would have offered good supply hubs to immediately follow up the initial landing with a large army, while normandy has 0 deep water ports and the americans struggled with having no ports well into winter and were thus very limited in how many troops they could actually supply in france.
To stop the British from occupying them and using themBeing a garrison troop in the channel Islands for the war must have been the cushiest posting
>>65345679Brittany is much more of a bottleneck, and significantly further from the UK ports
>>65345692immediately having 4 deep water ports vs. 0 matters more i think. the americans could have fielded a much larger army because of that right from the start. there would have been no slow zog through france and belgium and no opportunity for the germans to counter offensive (battle of the bulge).germans knew this and built heavy fortifications in the bretagne and garrisoned the channel islands. it made sense.
>>65345654Retarded wehrapoo
>>65345701>double spacedopinion discarded
>>65345679>>65345701Uh huh. On the other hand, and this is somewhat important, my team won and yours lost.
The volume of materials consumed by the V-weapon launch sites and the fortification of the Channel Islands must have dealt a significant blow to Germany.
>>65345679>while normandy has 0 deep water portsLe Havre and Cherbourg.
>>65345914cherbourg was taken 4 weeks after the invasion and by that time the germans had made the port unusable. took a month to make it usable again. le havre was taken 3 months after the landing and was also not usable immediately, repairs took until octobre.
>>65345654Why don't they just launch an attack from England itself? Oh wait.
>>65345962as an allied supreme commander i personally would have boosted the forces in italy instead and landed in the south of france. normandy was a waste of time and effort.
>Thirdie zoomer that can't even work out how to capitalize words correctly thinks they're hot shitLol. Lmao even.
>>65345564Hitler ordered that they be fortified and garrisoned like that because they were part of the UK.And if the Great Dictator orders something, you do it even if it's sheer idiocy or you get shot/go to gulag.For other great episodes of this, look to 'not one step back' by J.V. Stalin
>>65346088>Hitler>gulagI share a board with these people
>>65346001I would have invaded Denmark and punched down into Northern Germany, ending the war fastier.
those troops wouldn't really have made a major difference, how much heavy equipment did they have?
>>65346151the luftwaffe would have liked that. directly outside or at least at the extreme range of allied fighter coverage, they could have caused serious damage.
>>65346572They didn't even exist post 1941
>>65346088>they were part of the UKThey're Crown Dependencies and were separate in the peace treaty, like the Isle of Man, when it was signed. In fact, the Isle of Man was left out of the original peace deal so technically was still at war with Germany until like the 1980's or something and the Isle of Man said something like>The German people can sleep in their beds peacefully knowing they are at peace with the Isle of ManOr something funny like that.Jersey and Guernsey have totally different laws and rules to UK (and the nations of the UK have different rules to each other, which is why you can CC in Northern Ireland but can't even own a handgun anywhere else without a special permit). Jersey, on the other hand, has basically no firearm laws outside of 'no fully auto'.
>>65346587they are also a hub for all sorts of tax shenanigans alongside other bong dependencies
>>65345583Tbf the island hopping campaign in the pacific was mostly for planes so maybe that thought process was happening
>>65345564the Germans were just stupid (and still are)im reading Irving's Hitler's War and apparently Hitler did predict they would focus their invasion on Normandy. he was huffing copium that the invading force would be pew-pew'd by his wunderwaffles i.e. Me 262s diving fast from the heavens above and spanking the landing forces with their guns and bombs & then the Uboats Type XXI would come in like a boss and destroy everything that was leftmeanwhile the High Command was involved in retarded shit such as what you mentioned
>>65346694>im reading Irving's Hitler's Warthat's literally fanfiction, anon
>>65346582luftwaffe at the start of 1944: 3000 combat ready fighter planes, 2000 bombers, 1000 cargo and transport. another 6000 planes in reserve and production rate 2000 planes per month. the p51d would have had the ability to fly to denmark but not stay there for longer fights. and denmark is so central and close to germany the germans could have easily pooled planes from each theatre.
>>65346701except he learned German and spent a solid amount of time in German archives & then for the second edition (which im reading) he also spent time in the archives in Moscow. he also interviewed the families of high-ranking Nazis. one thing that stuck out to me was how apparently no historian before him was interested in Eichmann's diaries. he came to his widow and she told him that upfront and he was dumbfounded. turns out most historians just parrot what he said she said instead of digging into the base material
>>65346730>the p51d would have had the ability to fly to denmark but not stay there for longer fights.the Allies were routinely bombing as far as Gdańsk & East Prussia, with fighter escorts. consider also the Allied airlift for the Warsaw Uprising (hampered by the Soviets denial to use the freshly conquered airfields on the right bank)
>>65346732Nobody disputes that Irving learned German and found valuable documents. The problem is what he did with them. In the libel case he himself brought, the court found that he had “persistently and deliberately misrepresented and manipulated historical evidence” to portray Hitler favorably. Archival research does not make a historian reliable when the resulting work selectively distorts the evidence, and that's why Hitler's War is a bit of a laughingstock.
>>65346738>the Allies were routinely bombing as far as Gdańsk & East Prussiayeah but we are talking about aerial superiority here and thats pretty hard to achieve when you operate at the limit of your combat radius, as the germans learned during the battle of britain.and you can calculate that yourself;distance england - königsberg = 1400kmdistance england-denmark = 800-1000kmp51d combat range = 1300-1600kmp47 combat range = 600-1000kmso basically allied fighters could make it to denmark from england, but they didnt have the fuel capacity to loiter over the area, basically dogfights wouldnt have been possible. german bombers could have dropped on denmark basically unimpeded by allied fighters and allied bombers would have had little coverage, especially when trying to engage in cas as opposed to random night time bombing raids on towns with an accuracy of a km off target.
>>65346761that case was about his Holocaust denial debacle and didn't involve just that book but the whole of his career. it's funny, when you read the Wikipedia article for that book (Hitler's War) you get the impression it must be mostly about the "Hitler didn't know about the Holocaust" bullshit. turns out it's about WW2... shocker! funnily enough in the edition im reading (dont know if it was there in 1977) he says himself something in the vein of, that by the end of 1943 one can hardly believe Hitler was unaware of what Himmler was doing to the Jews (notably he does not use the word "Holocaust")what's also interesting is he mentions the Posen speeches and he does not try to whitewash them. i even found a review by a neonazi on Goodreads that castigates Irving as controlled opposition (LMAO)anyhow, my opinion is that it's a really good book about the war from Hitler's perspective
>>65346767and im being generous with the d model p51 here because there were about 300 or so of them available in the summer of 1944. so it would have been 300 p51ds over denmark against possibly more than a thousand german fighter planes.
>>65346767>yeah but we are talking about aerial superiority herethe Allies had air superiority over all of Germany including East Prussia. a sizable part of Germany's aircraft production was in caves and specially constructed underground facilities, not unlike the current approach by Iranthe Germans were forced to conduct a desperate and relatively unsuccessful hit-and-run operations
>>65346790>the Allies had air superiority over all of Germany including East Prussianot in june 1944 when the invasion happened.
>>65345668>you didn't win the war
>>65346809you sure?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FTsy7K5Vhc
>le never withdraw, never surrender man
>>65346836define air superiority. if you think 300 p51ds could have successfully covered a landing in denmark in june 1944, then i cant help you. a once per week escort mission for a 600 bomber pulk that is set to unload on some city in germany is something different. these are one-shot raids with minimal loitering over the target area. typical allied bomber raids in germany were in the 1000km range. königsberg was an extreme example and performed in april 45 literally days before the surrender, when there was basically no resistance expected anymore.
>>65345745Ok. And? That has nothing to do with this dicussion
>>65346701Maybe, but Inglorious Bastards was a documentary.
>>65346587Lel based isle of CHAD
>>65346694oh look it's the worst corean anti-german shill again
>>65346001I would've gone all the way into the Baltics and landed right on Berlin.
>>65346572Carriers exist
>>65347436Calm down Jackie Fisher
>>65347444Carrier aircraft traditionally don't perform well against land based aircraft
>>65347444the large us carriers were all in the pacific. only smaller carriers with 12-18 fighters on board where present during d-day and those fighters were mostly wildcats and seafires which were subpar to german fighters. and their low range would have meant that the carriers have to sail very close to the danish coast, well within german bomber range.
>>65347447Churchill wanted to do that, too.
>>65347517>>65347523Cope
>>65347517that was true for early ww2 naval fighters, but the later designs (hellcats, corsairs) were a match for german fighters.
>>65347517Didn't stop British carriers from destroying the entire shitalian air farce
>>65347548it did stop them. british carrier fighters rarely fought italian fighters. the spitfire had the highes kill count against italian fighters, followed by the warhawk.
>>65345679>the bretagne would have been a good place for the landing because it was very remote and the germans would have had even more trouble relocating troops there than they had in normandy. the area is still hard to get to even todayThat would make it a trap, everything that makes it hard for the Germans to defend your assault also makes it hard for you to defend if Germany decides to turn Bretagne into Dunkirk v2.You're bottling yourself up and making forward progress exceptionally difficult.And you're more in range of the Luftwaffe than of the RAF.
>>65347576germoid are too incompetent for that. there's a reason they lost
>>65345654>Because doing what the enemy expects you to do is a surefire strategy for victoryAre you playing stupid?
>>65345564imagine if krauts spent 0.00001% the their resources and money that went into this on intelligence and reconnaissance.
>>65346761>the court foundAnd we all know thoes are infallible
>>65347684afaik german high command saw no strategic value in fortifying the channel islands, but hitler repeatedly insisted on boosting the fortifications there for symbolic reasons mostly.>>65346176>those troops wouldn't really have made a major difference, how much heavy equipment did they have?600 bunkers with ocnnection tunnels30 coastal artillery batteries (305mm (!), 220mm, 150mm, 105mm) in casematesflak towers with 8.8cm guns, 10.5cm guns, 3.7cm flak43, 2cm flak vierlingsmine fields, several radar installations
>>65347748>german high command saw no strategic value in fortifying the channel islands, but hitler repeatedly insisted on boosting the fortificationsPretty much this.The radar and flak was useful, the rest was Hitler being an idiot as usual.
>>65347845>the rest was Hitler being an idiot as usual.Meanwhile in reality Hitler was correct most of the time and the generals just sabotaged him and later pretended he was in the wrong when he was dead and they needed new jobs.
>>65349537Yes yes, fuhrer good, boyars bad.
Honestly, I'm grateful for the occupation. We still rely on the sea defences the Germans built to this day in Jersey, which if constructed today, would cost a fortune and take bloody ages because our government is shit and indecisive, preferring to outsource every important decision to outside consultants. Just look at our hospital. A £1 Billion budget with plans laid down in 2012, now with hundreds of millions of pounds waisted and work only having recently commenced.
>>65345564>Getting posted to Guernsey while your friends are sent to the Eastern FrontMust be so based, like wining the lottery
>>65347706Even worseThe Hitlerite's debatably could have spent less on spies and got better results.
>>65345617In Gihren's Greed you can't invade Kilimanjaro until you take CaliforniaYou can't invade Beijing until you take KilimanjaroYou can't invade Torrington (basically Sydney) until you take BeijingYou can't invade Belfast (Britain) until you take TorringtonYou can't invade the asteroid base Luna II until you take BelfastAnd you can't invade Jaburo (Brazil) until you take Luna II, outside of a very gimmicky special ops infiltration attack that will probably failThe game is somehow fun despite all this nonsense
>>65345600>>65345617>>65345722>>65345725>>65345745This board is so retarded and infested now I am ashamed to even lurk.I think I have to call it quits, /k/omrades.Keep your powder dry and your groups tight. I love you oldfags, no homo.All you shills and turdies will burn in Hell, where you belong.
>>65350904Sorry to hear you're leaving forever, see you next week.
>>65346730Pilot and fuel status?
>>65346587You're probably thinking of the Isles of Scilly(supposedly at war with The Netherlands for 335 years) or Berwick-on-Tweed(a Scottish town supposedly at war with the Russian Empire then the USSR from 1851 to 1966). The latter is where the "sleep peacefully in their beds" quote comes from. The mayor said that to a Pravda correspondent in a mock peace ceremony in 1966. The Isles of Scilly have a slightly stronger claim to actually being in a state of war, but both stories are more myth than fact. Shame really.As a crown dependency, The Isle of Man cedes control of it's foreign policy to the English Crown(not the UK government, the Crown specifically) and is automatically folded in to peace treaties, war declaration, and so on. It's a relic of the feudal system. At various points all the crown dependencies pledged allegiance to the crown in exchange for the crown recognising and protecting their sovereignty. Apart from that they're basically micronations with full control over domestic affairs and their own governments, passports and legal systems.
>>65345745>my team
>>65345583That's actually understandable considering how wars were fought previously and the state of the war up until then. That's basically that the US did across the Pacific
>>65345564Imagine how quiet a nights sleep would bee in these things if you put windows in those openings.
>>65350904>wehrboo gets laughed out a thread>I-im never coming back!>two days from now>ok here's how a mass produced Maus would have changed the outcome...
>>65346115>Hitler le evil STALINESQUE Dictator!>You vil go to ze German gulag, le nahzee Soviet!My brain melted a little, too. They think if they add buzzwords to anything related to the NSDAP, they're owning the chuds.>Hitler mocked >WE DID IT REDDIT!
>>65346115Also, you ever notice how exactly none of them actually understand anything about what they support or claim to hate? They have about an equal firm a grasp on both, ala not at all. It's like when I go to the gun show and because I'm an actual combat Infantryman who fought in early to mid GWOT (04-12) I'm automatically MAGA and all that, it breaks their brains when I tell them I would have fought with the Germans in WWII and I hate Israel. I obviously don't parade around with my heart on my sleeve but I have little patience for people who have no convictions and will beat around the bush to fit it and not be "that guy" and will tell you outright my stances >tl;drI hate people who blindly follow one position or another out of fear of social admonition and worse when they're over the top with their ignorance
>>65346115>>65352608>>65352630You're all misreading that post.In the first line, anon is talking specifically about Hitler but in the second line where they say "the Great Dictator", they're talking about dictators in general. This makes the gulag threat generic rather than a Stalinesque practice being attributed to Hitler.Also, there's not a lot of difference between Nazi concentration camps and gulags, you could totally end up in one if you weren't loyal to the fuhrer.
>>65352641Maybe I misread it, I'll give you that, but it still written in the same hysterical manner I mentioned. People have to make sure they let you know just how much they're "on the right side of history" because they can't bear to think someone might think they in any way support Hitler. It's as cringe and cowardly as people who qualify their statements ahead of time, people really are ruined by social media and virtue signaling
>>65352680>Maybe I misread it, I'll give you that,Cheers, that was an error in grammatical understanding, not a moral failing or political wrongthink.>People have to make sure they let you know just how much they're "on the right side of history" No, Hitler is being mentioned here because it was something that Hitler, the literal guy, ordered. It's not virtue signalling to bring up Hitler in a question where the name "Hitler" is the actual correct answer.As for the dictator/gulag thing, that was just explaining why nobody told Hitler it was pointless and it gone done even though the people doing it probably knew it was pointless/wasteful.>It's as cringe and cowardly as people who qualify their statements ahead of timeThat pisses me off too, even though I do it myself a fair bit. We hate most in others what we do ourselves, after all.Don't blame the people doing it though, blame /pol/ak debatebros that speciously pounce on the slightest grammatical error, misinterpret it and claim victory because of it.It's like if I went:>HAHA, YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND A GULAG REFERENCE, YOU'RE WRONG AND RETARDEDPeople being overly defensive with qualifications are just trying to make themselves as small a target as possible for this kind of arsehole. They're technically doing the right thing by reducing the amount of hot air generated by political wonks nitpicking irrelevancies.
>>65345564Yes
This was fortunately par for the course for the retarded Nazis. In fact it wasn't even the worst example.The had 200,000 men in Atlantic France, 300,000 in Norway, 100,000 in Denmark and the low countries, 350,000 in Latvia, a few thousands scattered in the Balkans, plus the 300,000 who surrendered in the Ruhr pocket three weeks earlier. All in addition to the main force squeezed between the US/UK and USSR.
