Does anyone even want this? The universal reaction to it, appears to be contempt
>>65364415Corrupt siggers
HICAR is better in every way that matters. A couple weeks ago there was a sad noguns motherfucker sig employee who piss and shidd for 200 posts about this thing.
>>65364415(((Cohen)))
>>65364415Most people think it's cool. Normal people don't go crazy over guns being 5% more inconvenient, believe it or not.
>>65364995>5%The only "people" who like this thing are retarded airshitters
>>65364415Considering the other options was a ruined LSAT and... a bullpup, it was the most conservative choice at the time. Should've canceled the entire project and just handed people AR-10s. Proper DI ones, not that short stroke shit, or KAC's slick-side trash.
no one wanted it, but it doesn't matter. it exists for the MIC to humiliate you and assert their dominance over you. the fact that you posted this thread proved it worked.
>>65364415As the other anon said, normies don't care about the pros and cons of the rifle.>The universal reaction to it, appears to be contemptOh it's an ESL bait thread, carry on.
>>65364415It looks like the biggest heaviest army rifle I've ever seen. Don't want to hear shit about bullpups or hob anymore.
Not in a war fighting capacity but the .277 Fury is actually an interesting round I think it'd be a cool semiauto .308/6.5 alternative
>>65365593Denounce the talmud right now.
I fucking love sig, love how much they make you faggots seethe
>>65365644I would be perfectly happy posting a video of myself wiping my ass with it but that won't stop you from crying about jews when you can't argue a point.>>65365634Garands are actually heavier but soldiers carried a lot less back then.
>>65365679Clever, but that wasn’t a denouncement.
>>65365881>notably not a point madeJesus fuck anon, we get it you hate jews. Seethe about it privately so we can talk about guns.
>>65364415Id rather be sent into a warzone with pic related
>>65365902>still hasn’t Shit, that other guy is onto something.
>>65365915>ironsOof bud
>>65365922Not that guy chief
>>65365932He shows up in every NGSW thread to screech about jews and Cohen, it doesn't matter what or how relevant to the topic it is..
>>65365656you're a retard who would cut his nose off to spite his face
>>65365958>s-stop noticing things!
>>65364415Probably no, like>>65365158 said ita humiliation ritual for the us gov and taxpayers, especially seeing as sof are going with a 5.56 AR and HICAR.>b-but sof and line troop rifles serve different purpos-ACKliterally irrelevant
>>65366552Realistically, how long do you think it will last? I reckon it will be another M14 situation. We'll stick with it for like 10 years at most.
>>65364415The fact this POS was chosen over the LSAT made me abandon small arms defense desu, shit legit made me depressed>>65365158this
>>65364995Oh trust me when you have to carry a rifle 12 hours a day you'll notice every single added pound. Noguns fag.
It's been a complete waste of time and money.
>>65366582you think i dont know that, you dumb ass? I'm not even the retard you were replying to, bitch.
>>65366556The M14 was a genuinely shitty rifle.
>>65366592>the widespread acceptance of high pressure ammunition is a waste of time and moneyWhy virtue signal on an anon website?
>>65364415what does it do that the SCAR-H couldn't do, that was worth designing a while new gun and not a better projectile for a cartridge we make millions of every year and which already have supply chains and low cost of production in place because of said supply chains, volume production, and large government contracts?The government could have redesigned the penetrator core instead of "oh look we need a whole new everything else"
>>65366699It effectively engages targets out to 800m while having a 10.5 inch barrel, for starters. And at close range, it defeats body armor.
>>65366734There has never been any evidence that .277 sigger can penetrate anything that .308 can't with the same bullet construction.>b-but buffman with his 300 fps over spec pissin hot handloads...Retard.
>>65366734What percentage of infantry soldiers are capable of effectively engaging targets at 800m with any non-crew-served weapon?
>>65366754How many could do it with crew served weapons before fire control systems did the aiming for them? That's where the NGSW optic comes in. It brings the aiming efficacy of a tank's FCS and shrinks it into something that fits on a rifle. With this thing, any grunt becomes a top tier marksman.
>>65366754that's what the magic scope is for
>>65366734If it can't beat quality Level IV without the use of tungsten AP then it has no dice against actually modern plates.>>65366741Buff can't even get XM1186 to reliably pierce IVs man.
>>65366734wow the SCAR-H does that too. Maybe the barrel is longer, but it doesn't burn out nearly as quickly. We also have some old Mk14s in inventory that can reach out and touch someone at 1,000+ yards.
>>65366734>Long range with short barrelGET. A. FUCKING. BULLPUP.
lol mr. cohen is getting humiliated just like last thread.
>>65366769>>65366785where is it?
>>65366769Noshoots
Mr. Cohen does not give me good vibes
>>65366769That's not what it does.>>65366785There's nothing magic about it, it just has a built in rangefinder and ballistic calculator. It lets you do exactly what you could have done before but slightly faster.
>>65365679>won't stop you from crying about jewsthe absolute pathetic state of this board
>>65366830>it just has a built in rangefinder and ballistic calculatorYou clearly didn't even read the image about it.
>>65367029It doesn't even work
>>65366769>an auto-BDC turns every 11B into a marksman Confirmed for never having shot beyond 200y.
Israel does, hey a free gun is a free gun.
>>65366804the one .308 bullpup we have:Florida man space magic
>>65367029>Okay, let's see what the image has to say about it.>Combines glass optics with a laser range finder and ballistic computerWoah...
>>65366699>what does it do that the SCAR-H couldn't doNot beat its optics to death, weigh less, fire very high pressure ammo.
>>65366741Just the VLD design alone means it retains energy far better than 7.62x51, but you already knew that and are hoping others are ignorant.
>>65366790M1186 is also an EPR, not an AP.
>>65367186Cope. M855A1 is an EPR and pierces a variety of basic Level III plates. There are two major kinds of 6.8, M1186 and then the actual tungsten M1184 which basically performs like 7.62x51 M1158.>>65367182And it's down on core mass versus 7.62x51 which matters if you're trying to engage high-level ceramics.
>>65367176>Not beat its optics to deathYeah, about that...
>>65365593What's wrong about that sentance?
>>65367176>weigh less than SCAR>fire high pressure ammowish the noguns understood what this results in
>>65367197>level III platesIs this supposed to mean something? NIJ III is merely lead core projectiles.
>>65367197Oh its the anon who fixates on ~10gr of core mass because in all other variables 7.62x51 loses badly.
>>65367315M193 pierces steel Level III but not PEM855 pierces PE Level III but not steelM855A1 does both and requires a robust ceramic "III+" like the Hesco 3411 or LTC 19513. All of those plates fall under III.
>>65367318That makes more of a difference than you'd think. 7N37 is a lot slower than M993 but trashes it in AP. Why? Core mass.
>>65365927Just say you can"t shoot, anon. It's ok, we won't judge.
>>65367326lmao you just did it again by comparing two 7.62 cartridges while ignoring one being a much hotter loading
>>65367365>much hotterHeavier and lower velocity homes. Pressure is comparable. Retained velocity doesn't matter as much if the penetrator is that much larger. 6.5 Grendel and 6mm ARC get their ass kicked by 7.62x51mm in AP even if you give them a penetrator advantage.
>>65367383Okay I guess I have to dumb this down for you.If you took two M993 cartridges and waved a magic wand so that the projectile in one was swapped with a 7N37's projectile, then fired both cartridges out of the same gun, the M993 cartridge with the 7N37 would have a much lower velocity than a proper 7N37 cartridge.Conversely if you did the opposite where you took two 7N37 cartridges and swapped one's projectile with an M993 projectile it would have a much greater velocity than a proper M993 cartridge.Do you understand why?
>>65367449To add, an M993 projectile is 128gr while an 7N37 projectile is 188gr. An M1186 projectile is 120gr.We also have not addressed sectional density.
>>65367449>Man tries to use semantical tricksYes it's called pressure and it's comparable because they use different propellants. Next cope.>>65367460Core mass matters if the strike face isn't beefy enought to break a 10gr larger core up. Plates are not made with a lot of safety margin.>muh sectional densitySwiss P AP and 7N37 have similar sectional density but 7N37 has a larger core. 7N37 trumps.
>>65367485>it's called pressure and it's comparable because they use different propellantsExcept its not comparable because 7N37 is not nearly as slow as it would be if they were, I guess I am not smart enough to be able to translate this into retard.
>>65367519And the 7N37 would probably still beat the M993.I get Cohen is paying you but you're tripping over yourself. Core mass > muh external ballistics cope because 6.8 won't pierce armor worth a fuck.
It’s going to be very funny to watch the contrarians reverse themselves on this rifle just like they did for the F35 circa 2015
>>65367534Except the F-35 actually does cool shit now that the kinks are worked out. This rifle is a turd.
>>65367485Swiss P AP has a larger core than 7N37 and slightly higher sectional density
>>65367534The F-35 was always good. The M7 will always be shit just like the F-22.
>>65367527I am impressed anon, you don't understand why 7N37's velocity is higher than it would be if all variables with M993 besides the projectile were equal.>off topic jew rantOh it really is the retard, that explains a lot.
>>65367534What about this rifle would wind up being good? To anyone who actually shoots, particularly at longer ranges, it makes no sense.
>>65367584Nope. 7N37 has a projectile mass of 188gr and a core mass of 112gr. Swiss P AP is 196gr projectile and 86gr core mass.Look at Buffman's second Adept Colossus video and you'll see 7N37 defeat a plate tested to stop Swiss P AP cold four times.
>>65367596>muh ad homYou do not deny being paid by SIG Sour. I accept your concession.
No.It should never have existed to begin with
>>65367607It's ironic that you screech about jews while doing the "cry out while they punch you" thing after demonstrating that you do not understand second and third order effects.
>>65367600Do you by chance believe that accuracy is tied to barrel length?
>>65367624>makes it about jewsDude I was just talking about a guy named Cohen.I fucking love how you resort to twitter tactics because this rifle is trash.
>>65367632oh please anon you >>65365644 have been crying about them in every NGSW thread of late
So what will the cope be when actaul 6.8x51 AP ammo becomes public?
>>65367733Not me chief>>65367737That M1158 does the same thing and probably does better up close, and there's a lot more M1158 to fall off trucks than M1184 right now.
>>65367626What a strange question to ask. It should be obvious that things like BC, velocity and actual shooter capability are what matters in distance shooting. Do you think a LPVO turns a grunt into a marksman? Or that open terrain with long lines of sight are the norm? Shooting long range has a lot going on, and nothing the rifle is offering so far seems to make it suited for such a role, especially when that role is to be filled by the main service rifle, which is a whole other topic of discussion.
>>65367626no but here's a question for you,; how's a rifle rated at 3-4,MOA gonna fare at ranges beyond 300y?
>>65365593You almost trolled me there son. I don't know why everyone's so down on 'ESL': speaking multiple languages ,even if not perfectly, is to me a very impressive thing. I mean how many languages can you speak?
larger round? yessuppressor? yesoptics? yestan? yeslonger? noheavier? noless rounds? no
I'd like to try the 5.56 version.
>>65366691you are the only person on this entire board who cares about that one miniscule achievement, which would realistically only apply to new-design weapons of the correct materials and/or now increased thickness/size/weight.And if you don't understand what I said you also don't understand why the mil downpressured their cartridges for this awful piece of shit.
>>65366769These things break extremely easily and newer pics of the M7/M8 always have them with older style optics now as a result. Furthermore, giving every soldier an optic that shoots a laser out to rangefind is a great way to get blown up by glorious shining golden dragon wind era of the screaming soldier monkey chinkoid missile divisions, since these rifles are supposedly designed for "near peer" conflicts it's extra stupid
>>65368058Is anyone really surprized anon thinks 20" barrel velocities in a 10.5" barrel has miniscule value?
>>65364415Didn't a 4 star general related to procurement end up on SIGs board a few years ago? I think its a hint why
>>65364995It's a retarded and corrupt compromise. The project was a joke and 5.56 and 7.62 would have served fine until LSAT could be resurrected and perfected.
>>65368233>10.5 inch barrelWith a 7 inch suppressor*
>>65368348and it still doesn't pen Level IV unless you use the tungsten ammo too expensive for wartime
>>65368035It's also a massive piece of shit, but here you go: https://www.sigsauer.com/mcx-spear-lt-ir-5-56-11-5-sbr.html
>>65368253>LSAT could be resurrected and perfected.I find the gaslighting about how everyone hated Textron's rifle to be interesting.>>65368348The HUXWRX suppressor is 5.5" actually.
>>65364415>Does anyone even want this? No.>The universal reaction to it, appears to be contemptYes.
>>65364415I haven't really kept up with the discourse around this new rifle and round but I heard worries about body armor like 15 years ago and had some thoughts about it back then.Basically my solution was to design a simple, reliable 7.62x51mm bullpup battle rifle. I was thinking about a 20" barrel, around 35" long, select fire or 3 round burst capable, 9-10lbs loaded, attach points for optics and a grenade launcher and a reasonable price tag, like around two or three thousand a unit. They build like 100,000 of them and then just store most of them, in cosmoline or whatever else will keep them fresh for 50 years and continue on like they don't exist.No one smart wants to get rid of 5.56mm, its cheap, its light weight and soldiers can carry a lot of it. So if the boogyman situation of a war against an opponent with lots of body armor does happen, the rifles for your front line infantry who would need them most are there, ready and waiting. At a few thousand a rifle, 100k of them costs 1/3rd the price of a single Stealth Bomber, it would not be a huge investment(unless there is a ton of graft and red tape) for a nation like the US.At least that was my solution. Have the more powerful rifles ready without messing up the current system or breaking the bank. I always thought it was weird they didn't already do this.>>65367055Something vaguely like that I guess.
>>65369134>7.62x51>3 round burstThat was an awful lot of words tell us you're a retard and you own no guns.
>>65367534The “contrarians” shitting on the F-35 were thirdies mad they couldn’t have it. Trying to concern troll to get it cancelled.You don’t here a peep about the M7 from thirdie seethers.Which is the biggest clue that’s it’s actually dogshit.
>>65369175>The “contrarians” shitting on the F-35 were thirdies mad they couldn’t have it. Trying to concern troll to get it cancelled.I suspected if was big disinfo campaigns, primarily paid for by Russian. The Russians knew that they'd have to replace their entire air force to stand a chance and they couldn't / can't afford that. They were correct in that assessment since their stealth fleet is basically nonexistent, right now Russia's air force has no way to fight the F-35.I don't think the Chinese mind as much. Unlike Russia they can build things at scale so this F-35 is just something to study and try and copy. Even if they do a half ass job it still puts them head and shoulders above their regional rivals, India and Russia.
>>65364640Indeed, but I think you'll need a bigger bolt>>65366769There's no reason this can't have load profiles for every carbine, barrel length and cartridge in inventory to be usable on everything>assuming they fix it
>>65369390Well yeah, the NGSW optic could go on a 5.56mm rifle, but what's the point? It's not like 5.56mm is any good past 300m. 500m is the upper limit for consistent hits on man sized targets with military ammo, no matter how well someone aims.
>>65369198>The Russians knew that they'd have to replace their entire air force to stand a chance and they couldn't / can't afford that.This is delusional MiC think. Russia is never going to go to war directly with the US. The US just wasted trillions on a boondoggle plane because they're a corrupt oligarchy
>>65367534To be fair the F-35 wasn't always perfect and even today has sustainment issues or the radar supply chain problems. It's perfectly reasonable to criticize a program instead of writing blank checks. And even then major concerns weren't so much the concept of a JSF or the capabilities but it's actual cost. With this thing the actual capabilities are super questionable. From weight, volume of fire carried or the meme conditions of sightlines and targets exposing their body armor to fire that only work on a flat range in decent weather. Or the penetration testing with CMUs that are not representative of building codes anywhere in the world.Not a single NGSW-shill has addressed these issues in a credible way.
>>65364640HICAR has one significant flaw in that it doesn't exist
>>65367744>there's a lot more M1158 to fall off trucks than M1184 right nowSetting aside that by the time either "falls off a truck" there will have been far more M1184 produced.
>>65371009"Oh no it's retarded."
>>65371101>its reasonable to criticize massive cutting edge project with no comparison in the worldno
>>65371115>he doesn't knowReportedly SOCOM loves the new 97gr AP.>>65371611M1184 has a lot of catching up to do. The M1158 stockpile is likely into the seven digits at this point, which isn't a lot but if issued strategically can be of some use.They are just much better at controlling stuff these days, same reason why the "surplus" ESAPI market is dried up versus 2011.
>>65371101>It's perfectly reasonable to criticize a programThis is completely true but remember that back then the F-35 criticism was Pierre Sprey idiocy.
>>65371655As it were we know exactly how much M1158 was ordered. Note that this is in all forms from single rounds to belts (the latter being the majority of what was ordered).It has also been out of production for a few years.
>>65371692And how much M1184?
>>65371701If you count the FY2027 request then about ~800k, keeping in mind it was first ordered in FY2026 and it has not been type classified yet so it isn't in full rate production.
>>65371692>It has also been out of production for a few years.Had to check past year budget requests, the last time it was ordered was FY2023.Also the majority of what was ordered was linked for belt feds.
>>65371738So still a long way to go, but more than I thought. I'll admit that. We'll need a better AP round to handle the next gen of Chinese plates.
>>65371682 absolutely. It's just funny that the NGSW shills are arguing on Sprey's level. In the same way Sprey ignored the existence of the radio spectrum so he didn't need a radar, the NGSW crowd ignores the existence of sightlines, building codes or inclement weather. After all if gun fires long range it must be gooder.
>>65373847Can you give an example of "NGSW shills" doing this or is it something you hallucinated?
>>65364415I like how they made the M8 carbine, something which partially sacrifices the entire point of adopting the M7 to begin with by virtue of being a carbine, which is stopping power.
>>65364415I want one, its just a shit choice for general infantry because the army is full of women, fags and 5 foot tall Mexicans who won't do well with a full sized cartridge
>>65373988>stopping power
