>>65364415
Corrupt siggers

HICAR is better in every way that matters. A couple weeks ago there was a sad noguns motherfucker sig employee who piss and shidd for 200 posts about this thing.

>>65364415
(((Cohen)))

>>65364415
Most people think it's cool. Normal people don't go crazy over guns being 5% more inconvenient, believe it or not.

>>65364995
>5%
The only "people" who like this thing are retarded airshitters

>>65364415
Considering the other options was a ruined LSAT and... a bullpup, it was the most conservative choice at the time. Should've canceled the entire project and just handed people AR-10s. Proper DI ones, not that short stroke shit, or KAC's slick-side trash.

no one wanted it, but it doesn't matter. it exists for the MIC to humiliate you and assert their dominance over you. the fact that you posted this thread proved it worked.

File: 662254604_138823052334751(...).jpg (157 KB, 1344x756)

157 KB JPG

>>65364415
As the other anon said, normies don't care about the pros and cons of the rifle.

>The universal reaction to it, appears to be contempt

Oh it's an ESL bait thread, carry on.

>>65364415
It looks like the biggest heaviest army rifle I've ever seen. Don't want to hear shit about bullpups or hob anymore.

Not in a war fighting capacity but the .277 Fury is actually an interesting round I think it'd be a cool semiauto .308/6.5 alternative

File: first merchant.jpg (2.54 MB, 2648x2962)

2.54 MB JPG

>>65365593
Denounce the talmud right now.

I fucking love sig, love how much they make you faggots seethe

>>65365644
I would be perfectly happy posting a video of myself wiping my ass with it but that won't stop you from crying about jews when you can't argue a point.

>>65365634
Garands are actually heavier but soldiers carried a lot less back then.

>>65365679
Clever, but that wasn’t a denouncement.

>>65365881
>notably not a point made
Jesus fuck anon, we get it you hate jews. Seethe about it privately so we can talk about guns.

File: Brownells-BRN-10.jpg (54 KB, 1000x593)

54 KB JPG

>>65364415
Id rather be sent into a warzone with pic related

>>65365902
>still hasn’t

Shit, that other guy is onto something.

>>65365915
>irons
Oof bud

File: Screenshot_20260725_22372(...).jpg (486 KB, 1080x1448)

486 KB JPG

>>65365922
Not that guy chief

>>65365932
He shows up in every NGSW thread to screech about jews and Cohen, it doesn't matter what or how relevant to the topic it is..

>>65365656
you're a retard who would cut his nose off to spite his face

>>65365958
>s-stop noticing things!

>>65364415
Probably no, like>>65365158 said ita humiliation ritual for the us gov and taxpayers, especially seeing as sof are going with a 5.56 AR and HICAR.

>b-but sof and line troop rifles serve different purpos-ACK
literally irrelevant

>>65366552
Realistically, how long do you think it will last? I reckon it will be another M14 situation. We'll stick with it for like 10 years at most.

>>65364415
The fact this POS was chosen over the LSAT made me abandon small arms defense desu, shit legit made me depressed
>>65365158
this

>>65364995
Oh trust me when you have to carry a rifle 12 hours a day you'll notice every single added pound. Noguns fag.

It's been a complete waste of time and money.

File: 1761019045016.jpg (133 KB, 850x850)

133 KB JPG

>>65366582
you think i dont know that, you dumb ass? I'm not even the retard you were replying to, bitch.

>>65366556
The M14 was a genuinely shitty rifle.

>>65366592
>the widespread acceptance of high pressure ammunition is a waste of time and money

Why virtue signal on an anon website?

>>65364415
what does it do that the SCAR-H couldn't do, that was worth designing a while new gun and not a better projectile for a cartridge we make millions of every year and which already have supply chains and low cost of production in place because of said supply chains, volume production, and large government contracts?
The government could have redesigned the penetrator core instead of "oh look we need a whole new everything else"

>>65366699
It effectively engages targets out to 800m while having a 10.5 inch barrel, for starters. And at close range, it defeats body armor.

>>65366734
There has never been any evidence that .277 sigger can penetrate anything that .308 can't with the same bullet construction.
>b-but buffman with his 300 fps over spec pissin hot handloads...
Retard.

>>65366734
What percentage of infantry soldiers are capable of effectively engaging targets at 800m with any non-crew-served weapon?

File: file.png (348 KB, 960x621)

348 KB PNG

>>65366754
How many could do it with crew served weapons before fire control systems did the aiming for them? That's where the NGSW optic comes in. It brings the aiming efficacy of a tank's FCS and shrinks it into something that fits on a rifle. With this thing, any grunt becomes a top tier marksman.

>>65366754
that's what the magic scope is for

>>65366734
If it can't beat quality Level IV without the use of tungsten AP then it has no dice against actually modern plates.
>>65366741
Buff can't even get XM1186 to reliably pierce IVs man.

>>65366734
wow the SCAR-H does that too. Maybe the barrel is longer, but it doesn't burn out nearly as quickly.
We also have some old Mk14s in inventory that can reach out and touch someone at 1,000+ yards.

File: Australian trooper with a(...).jpg (376 KB, 2048x1365)

376 KB JPG

>>65366734
>Long range with short barrel
GET. A. FUCKING. BULLPUP.

lol mr. cohen is getting humiliated just like last thread.

>>65366769
>>65366785
where is it?

>>65366769
Noshoots

Mr. Cohen does not give me good vibes

>>65366769
That's not what it does.

>>65366785
There's nothing magic about it, it just has a built in rangefinder and ballistic calculator. It lets you do exactly what you could have done before but slightly faster.

>>65365679
>won't stop you from crying about jews
the absolute pathetic state of this board

>>65366830
>it just has a built in rangefinder and ballistic calculator
You clearly didn't even read the image about it.

>>65367029
It doesn't even work

>>65366769
>an auto-BDC turns every 11B into a marksman
Confirmed for never having shot beyond 200y.

Israel does, hey a free gun is a free gun.

File: kel-tec-rfb-rifle-1506565-1.jpg (359 KB, 1200x1200)

359 KB JPG

>>65366804
the one .308 bullpup we have:
Florida man space magic

>>65367029
>Okay, let's see what the image has to say about it.
>Combines glass optics with a laser range finder and ballistic computer
Woah...

>>65366699
>what does it do that the SCAR-H couldn't do

Not beat its optics to death, weigh less, fire very high pressure ammo.

>>65366741
Just the VLD design alone means it retains energy far better than 7.62x51, but you already knew that and are hoping others are ignorant.

>>65366790
M1186 is also an EPR, not an AP.

>>65367186
Cope. M855A1 is an EPR and pierces a variety of basic Level III plates. There are two major kinds of 6.8, M1186 and then the actual tungsten M1184 which basically performs like 7.62x51 M1158.
>>65367182
And it's down on core mass versus 7.62x51 which matters if you're trying to engage high-level ceramics.

File: XM157-Red-Screen.jpg (522 KB, 2252x4000)

522 KB JPG

>>65367176
>Not beat its optics to death
Yeah, about that...

>>65365593
What's wrong about that sentance?

>>65367176
>weigh less than SCAR
>fire high pressure ammo
wish the noguns understood what this results in

>>65367197
>level III plates

Is this supposed to mean something? NIJ III is merely lead core projectiles.

>>65367197
Oh its the anon who fixates on ~10gr of core mass because in all other variables 7.62x51 loses badly.

>>65367315
M193 pierces steel Level III but not PE
M855 pierces PE Level III but not steel
M855A1 does both and requires a robust ceramic "III+" like the Hesco 3411 or LTC 19513. All of those plates fall under III.

>>65367318
That makes more of a difference than you'd think. 7N37 is a lot slower than M993 but trashes it in AP. Why? Core mass.

File: bees.png (229 KB, 617x697)

229 KB PNG

>>65365927
Just say you can"t shoot, anon. It's ok, we won't judge.

>>65367326
lmao you just did it again by comparing two 7.62 cartridges while ignoring one being a much hotter loading

>>65367365
>much hotter
Heavier and lower velocity homes. Pressure is comparable. Retained velocity doesn't matter as much if the penetrator is that much larger. 6.5 Grendel and 6mm ARC get their ass kicked by 7.62x51mm in AP even if you give them a penetrator advantage.

>>65367383
Okay I guess I have to dumb this down for you.

If you took two M993 cartridges and waved a magic wand so that the projectile in one was swapped with a 7N37's projectile, then fired both cartridges out of the same gun, the M993 cartridge with the 7N37 would have a much lower velocity than a proper 7N37 cartridge.

Conversely if you did the opposite where you took two 7N37 cartridges and swapped one's projectile with an M993 projectile it would have a much greater velocity than a proper M993 cartridge.

Do you understand why?

>>65367449
To add, an M993 projectile is 128gr while an 7N37 projectile is 188gr. An M1186 projectile is 120gr.

We also have not addressed sectional density.

>>65367449
>Man tries to use semantical tricks
Yes it's called pressure and it's comparable because they use different propellants. Next cope.
>>65367460
Core mass matters if the strike face isn't beefy enought to break a 10gr larger core up. Plates are not made with a lot of safety margin.
>muh sectional density
Swiss P AP and 7N37 have similar sectional density but 7N37 has a larger core. 7N37 trumps.

>>65367485
>it's called pressure and it's comparable because they use different propellants

Except its not comparable because 7N37 is not nearly as slow as it would be if they were, I guess I am not smart enough to be able to translate this into retard.

>>65367519
And the 7N37 would probably still beat the M993.
I get Cohen is paying you but you're tripping over yourself. Core mass > muh external ballistics cope because 6.8 won't pierce armor worth a fuck.

File: IMG_4040.jpg (238 KB, 828x996)

238 KB JPG

It’s going to be very funny to watch the contrarians reverse themselves on this rifle just like they did for the F35 circa 2015

>>65367534
Except the F-35 actually does cool shit now that the kinks are worked out. This rifle is a turd.

>>65367485
Swiss P AP has a larger core than 7N37 and slightly higher sectional density

>>65367534
The F-35 was always good. The M7 will always be shit just like the F-22.

>>65367527
I am impressed anon, you don't understand why 7N37's velocity is higher than it would be if all variables with M993 besides the projectile were equal.

>off topic jew rant

Oh it really is the retard, that explains a lot.

>>65367534
What about this rifle would wind up being good? To anyone who actually shoots, particularly at longer ranges, it makes no sense.

>>65367584
Nope. 7N37 has a projectile mass of 188gr and a core mass of 112gr. Swiss P AP is 196gr projectile and 86gr core mass.
Look at Buffman's second Adept Colossus video and you'll see 7N37 defeat a plate tested to stop Swiss P AP cold four times.

>>65367596
>muh ad hom
You do not deny being paid by SIG Sour. I accept your concession.

No.
It should never have existed to begin with

>>65367607
It's ironic that you screech about jews while doing the "cry out while they punch you" thing after demonstrating that you do not understand second and third order effects.

>>65367600
Do you by chance believe that accuracy is tied to barrel length?

>>65367624
>makes it about jews
Dude I was just talking about a guy named Cohen.

I fucking love how you resort to twitter tactics because this rifle is trash.

>>65367632
oh please anon you >>65365644
have been crying about them in every NGSW thread of late

So what will the cope be when actaul 6.8x51 AP ammo becomes public?

>>65367733
Not me chief
>>65367737
That M1158 does the same thing and probably does better up close, and there's a lot more M1158 to fall off trucks than M1184 right now.

>>65367626
What a strange question to ask. It should be obvious that things like BC, velocity and actual shooter capability are what matters in distance shooting. Do you think a LPVO turns a grunt into a marksman? Or that open terrain with long lines of sight are the norm? Shooting long range has a lot going on, and nothing the rifle is offering so far seems to make it suited for such a role, especially when that role is to be filled by the main service rifle, which is a whole other topic of discussion.

>>65367626
no but here's a question for you,; how's a rifle rated at 3-4,MOA gonna fare at ranges beyond 300y?

>>65365593
You almost trolled me there son. I don't know why everyone's so down on 'ESL': speaking multiple languages ,even if not perfectly, is to me a very impressive thing. I mean how many languages can you speak?

larger round? yes
suppressor? yes
optics? yes
tan? yes
longer? no
heavier? no
less rounds? no

I'd like to try the 5.56 version.

>>65366691
you are the only person on this entire board who cares about that one miniscule achievement, which would realistically only apply to new-design weapons of the correct materials and/or now increased thickness/size/weight.

And if you don't understand what I said you also don't understand why the mil downpressured their cartridges for this awful piece of shit.

>>65366769
These things break extremely easily and newer pics of the M7/M8 always have them with older style optics now as a result. Furthermore, giving every soldier an optic that shoots a laser out to rangefind is a great way to get blown up by glorious shining golden dragon wind era of the screaming soldier monkey chinkoid missile divisions, since these rifles are supposedly designed for "near peer" conflicts it's extra stupid

>>65368058
Is anyone really surprized anon thinks 20" barrel velocities in a 10.5" barrel has miniscule value?

>>65364415
Didn't a 4 star general related to procurement end up on SIGs board a few years ago? I think its a hint why

>>65364995
It's a retarded and corrupt compromise. The project was a joke and 5.56 and 7.62 would have served fine until LSAT could be resurrected and perfected.

>>65368233
>10.5 inch barrel
With a 7 inch suppressor*

>>65368348
and it still doesn't pen Level IV unless you use the tungsten ammo too expensive for wartime

>>65368035
It's also a massive piece of shit, but here you go: https://www.sigsauer.com/mcx-spear-lt-ir-5-56-11-5-sbr.html

>>65368253
>LSAT could be resurrected and perfected.

I find the gaslighting about how everyone hated Textron's rifle to be interesting.

>>65368348
The HUXWRX suppressor is 5.5" actually.

>>65364415
>Does anyone even want this?
No.
>The universal reaction to it, appears to be contempt
Yes.

>>65364415
I haven't really kept up with the discourse around this new rifle and round but I heard worries about body armor like 15 years ago and had some thoughts about it back then.
Basically my solution was to design a simple, reliable 7.62x51mm bullpup battle rifle. I was thinking about a 20" barrel, around 35" long, select fire or 3 round burst capable, 9-10lbs loaded, attach points for optics and a grenade launcher and a reasonable price tag, like around two or three thousand a unit. They build like 100,000 of them and then just store most of them, in cosmoline or whatever else will keep them fresh for 50 years and continue on like they don't exist.
No one smart wants to get rid of 5.56mm, its cheap, its light weight and soldiers can carry a lot of it. So if the boogyman situation of a war against an opponent with lots of body armor does happen, the rifles for your front line infantry who would need them most are there, ready and waiting. At a few thousand a rifle, 100k of them costs 1/3rd the price of a single Stealth Bomber, it would not be a huge investment(unless there is a ton of graft and red tape) for a nation like the US.
At least that was my solution. Have the more powerful rifles ready without messing up the current system or breaking the bank. I always thought it was weird they didn't already do this.
>>65367055
Something vaguely like that I guess.

>>65369134
>7.62x51
>3 round burst
That was an awful lot of words tell us you're a retard and you own no guns.

>>65367534
The “contrarians” shitting on the F-35 were thirdies mad they couldn’t have it. Trying to concern troll to get it cancelled.

You don’t here a peep about the M7 from thirdie seethers.
Which is the biggest clue that’s it’s actually dogshit.

>>65369175
>The “contrarians” shitting on the F-35 were thirdies mad they couldn’t have it. Trying to concern troll to get it cancelled.
I suspected if was big disinfo campaigns, primarily paid for by Russian. The Russians knew that they'd have to replace their entire air force to stand a chance and they couldn't / can't afford that. They were correct in that assessment since their stealth fleet is basically nonexistent, right now Russia's air force has no way to fight the F-35.
I don't think the Chinese mind as much. Unlike Russia they can build things at scale so this F-35 is just something to study and try and copy. Even if they do a half ass job it still puts them head and shoulders above their regional rivals, India and Russia.

File: fedbait.jpg (163 KB, 318x1047)

163 KB JPG

>>65364640
Indeed, but I think you'll need a bigger bolt
>>65366769
There's no reason this can't have load profiles for every carbine, barrel length and cartridge in inventory to be usable on everything
>assuming they fix it

>>65369390
Well yeah, the NGSW optic could go on a 5.56mm rifle, but what's the point? It's not like 5.56mm is any good past 300m. 500m is the upper limit for consistent hits on man sized targets with military ammo, no matter how well someone aims.

>>65369198
>The Russians knew that they'd have to replace their entire air force to stand a chance and they couldn't / can't afford that.
This is delusional MiC think. Russia is never going to go to war directly with the US. The US just wasted trillions on a boondoggle plane because they're a corrupt oligarchy

>>65367534
To be fair the F-35 wasn't always perfect and even today has sustainment issues or the radar supply chain problems. It's perfectly reasonable to criticize a program instead of writing blank checks. And even then major concerns weren't so much the concept of a JSF or the capabilities but it's actual cost.

With this thing the actual capabilities are super questionable. From weight, volume of fire carried or the meme conditions of sightlines and targets exposing their body armor to fire that only work on a flat range in decent weather. Or the penetration testing with CMUs that are not representative of building codes anywhere in the world.

Not a single NGSW-shill has addressed these issues in a credible way.

>>65364640
HICAR has one significant flaw in that it doesn't exist

>>65367744
>there's a lot more M1158 to fall off trucks than M1184 right now

Setting aside that by the time either "falls off a truck" there will have been far more M1184 produced.

>>65371009
"Oh no it's retarded."

>>65371101
>its reasonable to criticize massive cutting edge project with no comparison in the world
no

>>65371115
>he doesn't know
Reportedly SOCOM loves the new 97gr AP.
>>65371611
M1184 has a lot of catching up to do. The M1158 stockpile is likely into the seven digits at this point, which isn't a lot but if issued strategically can be of some use.
They are just much better at controlling stuff these days, same reason why the "surplus" ESAPI market is dried up versus 2011.

File: what bullshit.jpg (256 KB, 1000x980)

256 KB JPG

>>65371101
>It's perfectly reasonable to criticize a program

This is completely true but remember that back then the F-35 criticism was Pierre Sprey idiocy.

File: advap.png (120 KB, 1051x739)

120 KB PNG

>>65371655
As it were we know exactly how much M1158 was ordered. Note that this is in all forms from single rounds to belts (the latter being the majority of what was ordered).

It has also been out of production for a few years.

>>65371692
And how much M1184?

>>65371701
If you count the FY2027 request then about ~800k, keeping in mind it was first ordered in FY2026 and it has not been type classified yet so it isn't in full rate production.

>>65371692
>It has also been out of production for a few years.

Had to check past year budget requests, the last time it was ordered was FY2023.

Also the majority of what was ordered was linked for belt feds.

>>65371738
So still a long way to go, but more than I thought. I'll admit that. We'll need a better AP round to handle the next gen of Chinese plates.

>>65371682 absolutely. It's just funny that the NGSW shills are arguing on Sprey's level. In the same way Sprey ignored the existence of the radio spectrum so he didn't need a radar, the NGSW crowd ignores the existence of sightlines, building codes or inclement weather. After all if gun fires long range it must be gooder.

>>65373847
Can you give an example of "NGSW shills" doing this or is it something you hallucinated?

>>65364415
I like how they made the M8 carbine, something which partially sacrifices the entire point of adopting the M7 to begin with by virtue of being a carbine, which is stopping power.

>>65364415
I want one, its just a shit choice for general infantry because the army is full of women, fags and 5 foot tall Mexicans who won't do well with a full sized cartridge

>>65373988
>stopping power

>>65365927
According to field tests so far you’re better off with the irons then the blue screening “smart” scope lol

i want one but im not paying 6 grand lol

>>65366769
More pics of dudes with acogs on their wonderwaffle than that thing

>>65367534
A new plane means new and more advanced technology.
What new technology does the fucking M7 bring to the tabel? What in the fuck can it do that a 50 year old battle rifle can't?
If you want to compare something to the F35, it's the scope. Because that actually has potential but sucks ass in it's current configuration.

>>65366541
>a ceo is the owner
The only "noticing" is that /pol/ is fucking retarded.

>>65366690
>loved by it's users
>STILL in service
Keep saying this.

>>65380419
>Mfw Lüke and Ortmeier the german goys make a jew the CEO so the jews get all the blame for their shady business practices

File: 1551112039844.jpg (113 KB, 850x693)

113 KB JPG

The thing that really baffles me hard with the XM7 is how the program started to replace every M4A1 with a bizzaro M110 (just after the Army ordered a bunch of M110A1s, which got promptly ditched for "reasons")
And while they were trying to make their "every man a marksman" rifle, they decided to start advertising it as *actually* being meant to kill armor plates.
...I just have to ask, who in their right goddamn mind genuinely thinks that merely having a ceramic plate that says "Level V" on it means that you have this is a magical barrier in front of your entire person that stops all bullets ever? It's like we're ignoring that plates cover up a tiny fraction of CoM and that there are plenty of nerves and arteries that can simply be shot? Like it's not piss easy with 5.56 to spray an entire man-sized target and do considerable damage to his internals?

Especially when you're in an actual firefight, like, with a chink prone and in cover, who's only visible by his head and face... are you really gonna be aiming for his fucking plate??? It's like procurement unironically thinks a plate carrier turns you into a completely invulnerable superhero unless the bullet can penetrate the plate. The solution to the "armor problem" is and has always been shooting the dude repeatedly in places where he isn't armored.

It seems retarded to make it the standard for every grunt to carry, but it could be a decent marksman rifle. If the idea is to have more accuracy and power at range, most guys just aren't good enough shooters for it to matter. If chink body armor up close is a concern, sacrificing close quarters reliability seems counterproductive. The whole project feels out of touch and deprecated because the very fucking thing it was trying to achieve has already been solved if you just look at modern warfare. Cheap drones can be operated by any retard on a laptop with miles of range. The us military took too long in its bureaucracy and sigger corruption, and it's already too committed to pull out without embarrassing everyone involved.
Ironically the one useful cool fucking thing, every guy getting a suppressor, is the most likely to be scrapped for cost cutting. Nobody higher up actually gives a shit about hearing loss.

>>65365153
>Should've canceled the entire project and just handed people AR-10s
Women can't handle 7.62. Why the fuck do you think other countries had to get rid of the FAL at the exact same time as they started letting women into the combat arms?

>>65367212
>accused of being ESL
>Replies with an even more ESL comment
KEK

>>65367383
>6.5 Grendel and 6mm ARC get their ass kicked by 7.62x51mm
Doesn't matter. Women whine when they have to shoot 7.62 because It HuRtS tHeIr ShOuLdEr, so we had to get rid of it.
Otherwise we'd just be using the FAL, which was absolutely reliable, had a sustained fire version with a heavy barrel and was basically a perfect modern battle rifle.

>>65380761
>the very fucking thing it was trying to achieve has already been solved if you just look at modern warfare. Cheap drones can be operated by any retard on a laptop with miles of range.
So your argument is that we don't need infantry at all.
You just don't know anything about conventional military doctrine or combined arms operations if you think thirdie tier drones are a paradigm shift that has changed warfare.
I mean fuck, we've been refusing to let Ukraine into NATO for decades because they're not able to follow NATO doctrine. The Americans had to make them stop sending the Abrams out on its own without any proper EW/support of any kind/with the hatches open because retards like you were pointing at the burning husks and screeching that armoured warfare has changed forever.

>>65380769
You sure it wasn't the fact that the FAL was obsolescent, clapped out, and plain unreliable when women came on the field?

>>65380811
You're strawmanning my entire post, or maybe you just have poor reading comprehension. Giving a marksman rifle to every infantryman doesn't make every infantryman a marksman, it just makes him a worse infantryman. And very clearly in 2026 not every infantryman needs to be a marksman.

File: fg_2417479-idr-588.jpg (166 KB, 1477x984)

166 KB JPG

>>65364415
I will never accept the sigslop.

>>65380823
>>65380761
It's not a good marksman rife, they're over 2.5 MOA even with match ammo. You also don't need marksman rifles to be short enough for doorkicking so there's no reason to switch away from the M110.

File: Wounded Cuirassier with a Girl.jpg (333 KB, 1280x930)

333 KB JPG

>>65380811
>So your argument is that we don't need infantry at all.
strawman but I'll play

We need the infantry in the same place they've always been the most effective: the proverbial last hundred yards.

>we've been refusing to let Ukraine into NATO for decades because they're not able to follow NATO doctrine
you are retarded, ukraine in NATO is all a question of politics not military compatability

>>65364415
I want the textron version.

>>65367485
>Plates are not made with a lot of safety margin.
completely erroneous statement.
plates are made to a standard, the standard is the safety margin.
gasoline grades aren't made to a "safety margin" either

>>65366582
not a big deal. the only issue is messing the scope up. sissy

>>65381948
>doesn't know what safety margin is
Safety margin is the amount of headroom a plate has above the standard, because if you just make plates to spec inevitably you'll goof and some will underperform.
>muh standard!
Runs out at steel core M2AP, there are no provisions in NIJ for tungsten core ammo other than safety margin above spec.

>>65382419
"safety margin" is excess capacity, to tolerate production deviances and meet expected statistical lifetime.
a plate cannot have "safety margin"
It's either a IIIA or a IV.

if you want to argue that shitter plates cheating on the coverage, having trash adhesives, etc is "lack of margin" go ahead but that's in reality a poor adherence to the standards (and not someone who should be getting business if they're lying about their cutrate production for the price point).

>>65380811
anything that cannot operate on its own is completely useless in a modern conflict where anything that remotely resembles a buildup gets instantly detected and dealt with by the enemy

>>65382437
>It's either a IIIA or a IV.
Somebody forgot III, and the industry's favorite made up terms. III+, III++, and IV+, oh, and 0101.07 is active now so really it's RF1, RF2, RF3, and the +'s.
>"safety margin" is excess capacity, to tolerate production deviances and meet expected statistical lifetime
That is not how the term is used in the industry. Everyone from Buffman to the NIJ cites safety margin as capability above spec, example being the NIJ's voluntary v50 program.
>a plate cannot have "safety margin"
My Protech 2230s are rated and tested to stop M2AP at over 3,510ft/s with no penetrations versus NIJ 2,910ft/s. That's 600ft/s+ of safety margin, and that's straight from Safariland themselves. Adept Colossus is rated for M993 and Swiss P AP, that's also safety margin.
>if you want to argue that shitter plates cheating on the coverage, having trash adhesives, etc is "lack of margin"
That's an entirely different issue which I'm not arguing. I'm talking about problems that plates from LTC and Hesco have, not Highcom and RMA.

>>65382492
ok retard

>>65382497
>has no argument
I accept your concession.

>>65382500
ok, retard.

>>65382456
>i base all my knowledge on modern warfare on a conflict between two 2nd world nations, neither of which can ever hope to have air superiority.

what you're seeing is broke nigga warfare

>>65382517
why is the same shit happening when they have exercises vs rich countries?

>>65382492
by this logic your protech 2230 is just a level II with safety margin
do you get it now?

>>65382528
you mean the us vs. ukriaine exercise where we tied three hands behind our back and could only make left turns?

>>65366785
That got pulled from development. Scope is dead

>>65382541
no surprise. smart scopes are always a part of these future weapon programs and theyre never relaible enough for grunt use. acog still the champ.

>>65382517
us wouldnt have air superiority against peer adversary either. less so if fighting that war overseas. "we are bigger thus better and always win" is not a strategy, its hubris, the ruin of empires

>>65382554
>us wouldnt have air superiority against peer adversary either.

because we have no peers. china's air force can only defend its borders.

>>65382536
That's some goofed up arithmetic, lol.
It is IV + 600ft/s of safety margin and was certified as a IV. IV is the baseline, and it also passes III, too.

>>65382541
Are you serious? It wasn't even that "magic", it was basically just an LPVO that had an automatic rangefinder and a IR laser, both long-proven tech. They couldn't even get that to work?

>>65380790
>FAL
>Perfect
>Modern
I really wish you had to prove gun ownership before being allowed to post here.

>>65380422
>has never touched or interacted with the EBR but sucks it off because it's cool in his vidya
>has never heard armorer feedback on the bedding
>been warehoused for years now
>"everyone loved it and it's still in use!"
noguns

>>65380388
>What new technology does the fucking M7 bring to the tabel?

Compared to the current service rifle?

-a suppressor
-a very low drag projectile
-80k psi chamber pressure

>>65364415
Well contempt is for people that look deeply into it. I think most people are confused instead. What the features are for seems to randomly change. Is the bigger caliber for more range or armor piercing? Is the supressor for actually quieter shots or so you don't get concussed. What is this thing? Is it an upgrade, a sidegrade or a downgrade? Just what is happening?

>>65382528
Because you can't learn shit from winning. ALL exercises are designed to learn something, they aren't just field practic, and the best way to learn is to have your ass kicked by something.

>>65383451
AP at range, technically, although it's not reliable there without XM1184

>>65383379
>not new
>wasted by standard assault rifle accuracy
>a fucking liability
wew

>>65383491
Except that there's no evidence that it's better than M1158 in that regard at any range. No, the fact that the bullet is a little pointier is not evidence.

>>65385841
Oh I agree with you there. I actually think M1158 is somewhat better

>>65385833
tbf he did say new, not "good"

>>65364415
yay another AR thing does this one have lights or something?

>>65382517
Hows air superiority working out against Iran buddy?
>yea, but we're doing a lot more damage to them hurr
I realize that, and yet we picked a win condition that cannot be achieved by air power alone.

>>65386278
Oh it's one of the people who thinks that by losing most of its military, having its economy crushed and turning all its neighbors against it means that Iran is winning.

>>65382564
>yes but I'm going to choose to be an obtuse bastard to protect my widdle baby feewings
Ok

>>65387253
>what is the NIJ standard
You're basically attempting to argue a stop sign is not a stop sign.

I miss the times before this board was brainraped by Ukraine, back when it discussed guns because it liked them. Now it's just /v/ for another manchild hobby pretending that cynical poo pooing of eveything based on made up bullshit and hypotheticals makes you an old fag

>>65387291
I miss bunkbedguy

>>65364415
I'd want it in a world war against a peer adversary.
Of course our adversaries might as well be wearing cardboard.

>>65385841
>Except that there's no evidence that it's better than M1158 in that regard at any range.

just the fact that it has significantly higher velocity for a comparable projectile weight should be you first clue that you are being retarded

>>65385833
>not new

Compared to the current service rifle it is.

>wasted by standard assault rifle accuracy

Still an improvement even at the distances your average grunt will be shooting at.

>a fucking liability

Ahh it was a fudd that I smelled.

>>65387291
Ah yes the days of buying Mosins for $100 because /k/ wasn't full of manchildren.

>>65387580
Kiddo, issued suppressors are hardly new and the M7 only has it my virtue that it's basically unusable for the operator without it, 5.56 is hitting within a six inch zone out to 350y, and retard-high pressures =/= automatically good.

Post a gun you own.

>>65387580
can you please explain why questioning "-80k psi chamber pressure" makes one a hunter-focused gun owner or do you just repeat slang like a parrot?

File: 1773684170747285.jpg (56 KB, 500x500)

56 KB JPG

>>65364415
When the fuck did the Marines get a higher i.q. than the Army? Marines did two gigabrain moves and got their guys cool shit while Army is still trying to shove the star block into the triangle hole.

File: 1784926431688422.jpg (20 KB, 394x513)

20 KB JPG

>retards think they'll be sniping dudes with super duper body armor instead of suicide drones
I'd rather have an M4A1 with a 60 round magazine and a masterkey.

>>65364415
good idea on paper, shit execution. Maybe someone more competent could make better use of the .277 Fury round

>>65387661
Being a fudd means having an irrational fear/disdain of new technology.

>>65387800
"Cool shit" meaning an obsolete version of the 416 so that they could have their own gun instead of using the same gun as the Army.

>>65387610
What is your reading comprehension because it has to be well below a high school level if you can't grasp the difference between whay you are saying (suppressors are not new) and what anon is saying (service rifles have not had suppressors before).

>>65388245
incorrect

>>65387571
Only for a given barrel length. Comparing an M110 to an M7, the 6.8 doesn't have substantially more energy.

>>65388333
CHECK EM

>>65388257
Did you reply to the wrong post or are you implying suppressors on service rifles are new...

We argue about this rifle all the while plates continue to get lighter. The cuh's at Adept Armor have the new 4.55lb Emperor Level IV plate for $3,000 a set. Just launched today.
https://www.ade.pt/product/emperor/

Or cuh has the Protech X-CAL LP for thirty dollars.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1194114315

>>65388349
yeah plates have a huge edge currently, hence why the argument for the M7 has shifted (again). now we're at
>muh long range engagement (with a 4 MOA rifle)

>>65388383
I actually have it in writing from Adept the new Emperor isn't even reliable against 5.56 M995, so tungsten 6.8 or 7.62x51 is going to go through it like butter.
They're working on an improved version with 5.56 / 5.8 / 5.45 tungsten defeat but that's a ways out.

The greater news for armor is the GEN-IV ESAPI adopted last year. Standalone, 5lb flat, 3x M2AP or M995 defeat but with a raised 62mm BFD limit. If China can replicate that, and they can, then yes, the M7's arguments will need to change, because GEN-IV XSAPI is 5.5lb and does M993 three times standalone.

Most advancements in armor, while slow, are widely copied and raise all ships.

>>65388245
A fudd is someone who thinks 2A is meant for hunting and that no one should need anything more than a bolt-action and a six-gun. Maybe a lever-action and a .45 relic handgun. They're the ones who you used to see prominently in the 2010s saying
>I'm a gun owner and support the Second Amendment. B U T . . .
before getting completely left behind by the gun culture zeitgeist and/or literally dying off.

Fudd does NOT apply to people who think that stupid pressures for the sake of achieving relevant velocity in an ill-conceived BR carbine isn't a worthwhile tradeoff.

I still don't understand the "train with underpowered ammo" thing
I must be missing something, do they use a different bolt to make the experience of shooting the same, or what?

>>65364415
It’s really just ARG having another tantrum at the idea that their favorite rifles becoming outdated and hyper autists bitching about weight and ammo carrying capacity which frankly isn’t a huge issue for American soldiers who have near unlimited resources thrown at them. Nobody else gives a fuck. Give it ten years and they’ll sort out some issues and then the ARG trannies will all start buying them because they’re newer cooler and they don’t have to carry full combat loads so it mogs the AR as a home defense weapon, hunting rifle, and fun gun.

>>65389084
HICAR says hello. The future is backwards compatible hypervelocity AR15 uppers.

>>65388349
I’ve gone down this rabbit hole so many times. The end result is fuck huge pissing hot bullets or more likely admitting the Geneva Convention is gay and outdated and moving onto exploding ammunition like we should have been doing for the last 20 years.

>>65389100
Indeed. The trend right now is tungsten "long-core" heavyweight AP like 7.62x54R 7N37 / 7N51, 5.56 97gr SIG HYP, or going balls out with a .338 penetrator like 7N49 or XM1224. Those guarantee defeat except against extremely stout .50 BMG AP-rated plates from EDUN or Adept.
>or more likely admitting the Geneva Convention is gay and outdated and moving onto exploding ammunition
Nice but all this will do is make multi hit very difficult. Incorporate an aramid face ahead of the ceramic and you can capture explosive effects in small caliber ammo. How about DU?

>>65389092
We’ll see but physics tells me HICAR isn’t going to go far.

>>65389118
Novel new metallurgy says otherwise, but I agree, remains to be seen. My armor autism tells me sudden amazing new shit must always be treated with caution.

>>65389116
>Multi hit
The goal with smaller automatic and preprogrammable grenade launchers is that the plates become entirely irrelevant because they’ve got shrapnel hitting the target everywhere and fucking their shit up. Plus it opens up all kind of goofy indirect fire options and shit like that.

>>65389125
80k psi really just sounds like a 5.56 magnum to me which is based but we know the barrel life issues on magnums which imo even with improved metallurgy just means it won’t be as expensive but still impractical. Maybe the SF community spends their money on it but big army I find doubtful.

>>65364415
Modern day FG-42

>>65389144
There's already extremely accurate ARs like the HK416 in general issue. Even assuming it's the kind of barrel burner that would have a match shooter replace the barrel in 1500 rounds, that's probably still 15,000 or more before it crosses the accuracy threshold for a service rifle.

>>65389156
Or you just air burst a grenade over the targets head from cover and let him and the guy next to him bleed out as his squad tries to drag their soon to be corpses off the line.

>>65389130
Alright, I like that better. Problem is that future UHMWPE and eventually M5 Fiber / PBO developments will enable better, more fragproof soft armor.
>>65389144
Yeah, but it still pops most hard armor with correct loads.

>>65387800
Marines are retarded because they won't even update their 416s to the current spec the euros are adopting.

File: 1729079054681235.webm (1.94 MB, 718x954)

1.94 MB WEBM

>>65364415
Just here to leave this.

>>65364415
Not even the infantry want this. Only those corrupt fucks at the Army's brass want this because they've been getting kickbacks from SIG.

>>65371115
That's because development on it has only started.

>>65364640
Interesting.
https://soldiersystems.net/2026/05/20/ussocom-seeks-hypervelocity-improved-capability-assault-rifle-hicar/

>>65388340
suppressors on service rifles are a new thing for the US Army

>>65389144
progressive rifling and modern metallurgy have you covered

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VftuNuEG7Tg

>>65371009
>Russia is never going to go to war directly with the US
Half their western neighbours/targets have F-35s. Russia would quite like to go to war with them.

>>65364415
It’s just AR babbies shidding and pissing their pants over the fact that the US Army confirmed what everyone has known for years: 5.56x45 NATO is an underpowered glorified squirrel cartridge that was an overreaction to 7.62x51 NATO being too heavy and uncontrollable in full auto. Everyone already acknowledges that we should’ve adopted the FAL or AR-10 over the M14, and the Sig M7 is a logical evolution of what we would’ve gotten if we had indeed gone with one or both of those rifles.

File: collection-of-various-rif(...).jpg (44 KB, 639x561)

44 KB JPG

>>65389996
not at all.

>>65389952
White paper was due last June and I’ve heard nothing about it.

>>65389211
Until its real its vaporware.

>>65390231
Why are you posting a SOCOM guy when we are talking about service rifles.

>>65390359
>white paper

Anyway, because you don't know where to look.

https://sam.gov/workspace/contract/opp/b1a57529aa574e8ba220e0311434733e/view

File: Untitled.png (1.05 MB, 896x504)

1.05 MB PNG

>>65390369
do you know what a service rifle is?

>>65390231
>SOCOM
>Vietnam
Bait used to be believable

>>65390379
>picture of a Marine

Anon I...

>>65389151
the FG 42 was (an actual excellent design, used an existing cartridge and) not intended for all service branches: only and specifically the Fallschirmjager

>>65390392
is this a bot? the nonsensical replies seem to point towards that.

This is the plate the NGSW was made for...
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1194114315

>>65390415
I would have to ask the same question given

>suppressors on service rifles are a new thing for the US Army

File: 013-3.jpg (83 KB, 700x617)

83 KB JPG

>>65389996
???

File: halo.jpg (23 KB, 300x225)

23 KB JPG

>>65390433

>>65390433
Oh hey Army special forces, you did a lot better that time even if SOPMOD's are not the Army's service rifle.

>>65390450
The fuck you on about? You said Army service rifles didn't have suppressors before, they did. Boohoo, faggot.

>>65390369
>>65390387
>SOCOM
>Vietnam
Fucking newfags.

>>65390471
I'm the second dude, meant to quote the other retard replying to that pic, my b

>>65390486
I retract my newfag accusation.

>>65390450
> even if SOPMOD's are not the Army's service rifle.
Nigga you are not going to pretend that SOPMOD = whole other rifle and not just an M4A1 (the Army's issue rifle) in a certain config

>>65387581
At least it was manchildren who enjoyed the hobby. My god man, if all you can do is bitch about everything maybe find literally anything else to do with your life. Fucks sake, imagine sitting here alt+f4ing until a thread about some new gun shows ip and all you do is post "its shit" on repeat everyday until you die.

>>65390513
Oh they issue SOPMOD M4 to every soldier now?

>>65364415
I want it. Based return to battle rifles.

>>65391529
You said service rifle, not standard issue rifle you ESL brownie.

>>65364415
>Does anyone even want this?
The people making money from it seem to think it's the tits. I don't really get the point but I guess that's why I don't make the big bux.

>>65392777
>You said service rifle, not standard issue rifle

Uh anon, I hope you realize your mistake and pretend you never made this post.

>>65392979
You said service rifle, you have brown skin, you have zero (0) guns. Filthy jeet.

>>65391529
>The Special Operations Peculiar MODification (SOPMOD)[1] kit is an accessory system for the M4A1 carbine
What's the standard issue weapon for the Army, anon?

>>65393259
Not a SOPMOD M4A1, but you already knew that.

>>65393245
You can't call others ESL or brown when you don't know what english words mean.

>>65393259
the faggot thought SOCOM was in Vietnam, he's clearly not from here and just looking to start shit. stop replying to it.

>>65393303
Why are the accessories important? It's still an M4A1.

>>65393309
Aren't you having trouble differentiating between a rifle and a configuration? Post your hand and a gun.

>>65393326
>>65393334
I will give you a chance to be honest make up for not knowing a service rifle is a services standard issue rifle, is a SOPMOD M4A1 the standard issue rifle in the US Army?

It's a simple yes or no question.

File: 832026-1.jpg (19 KB, 360x128)

19 KB JPG

>>65393352
>He's doubling down

>>65393352
>the M1 Garand was never issued with a scope
>What the fuck, yes it was. The M1C and D.
>ummmm, those aren't the M1 Garand, sweety
You are an actual redditor and need to go back. I'm going to second that you post hand and gun

>>65393352
The M4A1 is the standard issue carbine in the US Army, and some units at additionally issued SOPMOD kits containing accessories they can add to their standard issue service weapons.

File: Screenshot 2026-08-04 213939.png (295 KB, 1045x541)

295 KB PNG

>>65364415
Nobody besides the US Army was interested in the M7 because it's a very bad idea.
>too heavy
>too bulky
>unproven abilities in niche scenarios
>soldiers carry less ammo
>hard to shoot
>high cost
>short service life
That was before damning beta testing information got leaked such as
>ammo being severely undercharged so the guns don't experience rapid unscheduled disassembly
>skyrocketing ammo costs
>ammo production delays
>oh by the way SIG's optic is too heavy, too bulky, the batteries don't last long enough, the optics don't work as advertised
>major components melting and or fracturing despite the reduced power ammo
The US Army has paused M7 orders indefinitely and hasn't put in any since October of 2025.
>>65387291
>don't criticize things I like
I'll discuss whatever I wish.

File: IMG_3496.jpg (391 KB, 2160x610)

391 KB JPG

>>65396340
> The US Army has paused M7 orders indefinitely and hasn't put in any since October of 2025.
That’s because they plan on replacing most M7s with the new M8 (Short M7).
It’s still on track and planed to replace the M4 in all regards.

>>65396340
>oh by the way SIG's optic is too heavy, too bulky, the batteries don't last long enough, the optics don't work as advertised
Why do clueless retards insist on pretending to have authoritative knowledge of things?

File: HO8dDP2XYAEKYOh.jpg (232 KB, 1000x1500)

232 KB JPG

>>65396340
The M157 isn't a SIG optic but your level of knowledge isn't surprising.

As it were the Army is quietly buying Eotechs for the M7/M8 and M250.

https://soldiersystems.net/2026/08/03/eotech-supplies-electro-optics-to-the-us-army/

File: illdoit.png (77 KB, 232x230)

77 KB PNG

>>65396365
>DOD worried about chinese/russian (and more importantly american civilian) body armor
>make new gun for army
>shoots pissin hot loads that go through anything
>it's too big and heavy
>shorten the fuck out of the barrel
>lose extreme muzzle velocity that makes it fast enough to go through shit
>you are here
>go back to M4

>>65364415
>Does anyone even want this?
Yes. In .22LR

>>65365915
>imitation wood furniture
come on now

>>65364415
It's the perfect weapon for the last war.
Which ended 5 years ago.

>>65399168
No, it would have been a terrible weapon for that war, too.