CMP M14shttps://thecmp.org/l/m14-announcement/perhaps we will see why they were ditched for the M16 so fast, the production quality of military M14s was TERRIBLE.
better than a gayAR
>>65364481Now the question is how much they will cost
Why couldn't it be M1903s...
>>65364747What? They've sold M1903s for decades.
>>65364756They were only selling them in-store occasionally in recent years. It looks like they just found a way to Frankenstein together more A3s though, that could be interesting.
>>65364481This news makes me do the big cum
The CMP meme needs to die already, prices are worse than the private market and just for the privilege of buying an overpriced banged up antique you have to jump through more hoops than you would for an NFA item, I genuinely do not understand the point of this
>>65364882kys boomer scalper
>>65364526I want answers!
>>65364882What the hell are you talking about? The M1911A1 are $700+ under market value. They sell for $1100-$1300 and pretty much command $2k+ on the resale market.
>>65364882If you can't do 15 minutes of paper work to save $1000 on a rifle, you don't deserve the gun.
>>65365264>you don't deserve the gun.The zooms are all abt instant gratification. They want toilet paper with same-day shipping from Amazon so they don't have to put down thier game controllers and go outside. Asking them to compete in an Anea Match or take a safety class is beyond reason. /brg/ had a zoom that didn't know how to go to the post office for a money order, he couldn't conceive the effort or process.
>>65365292>back in my day everything took forever and sucked!That's great grandpa
>>65365292My family had a rotary dial phone, we had two fully functional typewriters in the house, I think I know more about old times than you. Doesn't mean I'm going to do everything the stupid way just because all the LLMs are coughing up conventional wisdom from their training data dating back to the early 00s forum scrapes
>>65365292it's fine, weeding out the retards saves the rifles for those that will actually appreciate them, much like the Garands.
>>65365308More for us and I'm guess my DD214 will do I'll take a fucking M-14! I should be on orders by then and raking in the money. I might buy 2.
>surp m14>first chip in "once a machine gun, always a machine gun" precedent
>>65365330Probably rebuilt on new receivers.
>>65365308>weeding out the retards saves the rifles for those that will actually appreciate themBut much like the Arands, the zooms will just bitch about "boomers ruining everything", like they always do. Then start fantasizing about buying rifles for pennies on the dollar and raping 70yo widows. Which is admittedly, a wierd kink. Here goes one now.>>65364962
I wonder how they'll "permanently" turn the select fire M14's into semiauto only?
>>65365305>I think I know more about old times than youHe's in competion for validation. Always such a funny thing how insecure people are. But if you must, party line and USPS - General Delivery.
>>65365305I genuinely don't know how you can get filtered by a few forms and a fucking notary signature. I'm also floored you'd confess this.
>>65365348Welding rod and wood putty.
>>65365348They might just weld the selectors in place.
>>65365330Chevron Deference got overturned so all those fake and gay ATF “rules” are now on the chopping block.
>>65365339No, these are original receivers with modifications. confirmed on the CMP forums, these are NOT new rifles, they are original receivers.
>>65365359Imagine if it's a little WASR-10 tier muzzle nut pin weld
>>65365454
>>65365355>>65365454>>65365459Does an M14 FRT exist yet?
>>65365346kys boomer scalper faggot cuck
>>65365531They will soon
oamaam is complex. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GumlxOYcJ38
GCA membership: BOUGHTHunting license: RENEWEDPenis: ERECT
>>65365531Yes, you hae at least two already. Assuming you don't wear Crocs.
>>65365296Delayed gratification is the single most important attribute a society has to have in order not to be a niggeropolis
>>65365686I sincerely hope no one listens to this guy in the big 26. Remember the autokeycard people who are currently in federal prison.
>>65365677>boo hoo>how do I buy stamps?Lol putz.
>>65365692elaborate.
>>65365694I hope they prohibit buying more than 1 gun per person so all you boomer scalpers get fucked.
>>65365692>autokeycard people
>>65365700>i belive in gun control at the most basic levelWe call you people "commies". Currently reaping just rewards in Ukrainia.
>>65365699>>65365702https://www.atf.gov/news/press-releases/youtuber-and-auto-key-card-manufacturer-sentenced-five-years-prison-transferringThis is what happens when you listen to internet "lawyers" with an agenda instead of pragmatism.
>>65365677>>65365700NTA and I hate boomer CMP scalpers, but they only make the money they make because people are either unaware or too lazy to use the CMP. I can count like 5 dudes I know who have shot my M1s, were shocked to find out I got mine for 700-900 bucks from the CMP, but instead of filling out 3 forms elected to pay $1,600-2,200 for rack grades at gunshows. Its not that hard little zoom.
>>65365704I don't understand how this is a thing when there are hundreds of thousands of FRTs that have the same end result.
>>65365703>if you don't let me use my 401k to illegally flip surplus rifles profit you support gun controlkys boomer. You'll be dead soon anyway.
>>65365706I am a proud two-time zoomer CMP customer. I'm lashing out at noomers bevause on e of the reasons my peers don't see the CMP as a viable option is because boomers have picked it clean in recent years and they ARE reselling shit which defeats the point of what the CMP is fucking FOR and it makes me mad.
>>65365704>lightning linkPic rel, everybody has known this since Shotgun News was sold in Safeway decades ago. Suprised it wasn't FBI entrapment.
>>65365707Because machine guns and FRTs are two different things.
>>65365708Nah. You are just insecure about your future and looking to blame strangers. Many such.
>>65365717no, they aren't. you hold the trigger back. Any 'distinction' is retarded lawyer fuckass.
>>65365728Why do you come to a weapons forum if you are a pole smoking antigun faggot? The trigger is FORCEABLY RESET. Per all existing laws.
>>65365735that mindset is going to FUCK YOU UP in the long-run. gun 'advocates' being smarmy um akually morons is the absolute WRONG way to get gains in gun rights.>oh sweetie yeah this 1300 RPM rifle is legal because it slaps my finger, this other 1300 RPM one is 10 years in jail illegal, yes this is fine :))))kill yourself immediately. you're all traitors to the cause
>>65365738>beats chest>throws straw>flings pooI hae seen this behavior before you know.
>>65365738>smarmyI don't think you understand that word.
>>65365531They've been around almost as long as the rifle itself
>>65365738>get fucked by fucky laws for years>gotta restrain ourselves while the shoe is on the other footlol no, now is the time to get all we can
>>65365728Yeah and lawyers are the people who will put you in jail for making one but not the other. Learn the law or seethe about it.
>>65365382The M14 ruling that it was originally "designed" as a machine gun makes every AR15 an illegal machinegun even if the cuts are missing from the receiver and the hole not drilled. There's nothing in the ATF's opinion that makes a virgin semiauto receiver different Because their whole legal argument was physical reality is irrelevant only the original design matters because of two words in the NFA.
>>65365704>florida>2023>tipped off by banklol. What a shithole. I wonder which bank ratted him out.
>>65364481>not dumping full-auto M-14s on us because the left hand and right hand weren't talking to each other againI guess it was too much to hope for another M1 Carbine situation, but I still wanted it.
>>65365714Yep I see them at the gun shows all the time marked up in price greatly
>>65365728I know reading legal opinions is painful for demoralized couch potatoes like you, but if you wanna see that retarded lawyer fuckass in action at our highest court, look up Garland v. Cargill and take note of the majority opinion making exactly >>65365717's point.
>>65365264Ive read the cmp rules.Says you need to be affiliated with a cmp shooting range or club and be witnessed shooting in event. I live in bum fuck Egypt there's nothing like that around me. Dont know how to get around this fuck you clause.My question is was these weapons initially purchased with taxes collected ONLY from cmp affiliated club members?If not, locking non members of the citizenry out is discrimination. Im pulling the nigger card here but its not right.I think its some kind of money kick back scam. To many of these guns show up at gun shows with hugely inflated prices
>>65365999Checked and reading comprehension filter succeeded
>>65365999Sign up for the garand collector's club online and get of your ass and go shoot at a range. If you can go to a gun show you can do that.
>>65365764I miss ENDO.
>>65365264>15 minutes of paper workyou need to be one of their boomer affiliates
>>65366055Your defeatist attitude is why boomers say millennials and gen Z are lazy deadbeats https://thegca.org/
>>65366027Shhh don’t tell them, I missed out on the golden age of CMP m1 carbines because I was a young retard now’s my chance for an m14 while these new young retards sleep on the deals.
>>65365330>There’s a snake in my pants! This anon is thinking the long game, this anon is smart
>>65365687Oh shit, does a hunting license count for the safety/competition qualifier? I knew about the GCA but I’ve already taken all the safety bullshit for my state so I just have to renew the license for $100 and I’m gravy.
>>65365707This predated the FRT IIRC. Or predated them being widespread and kinda accepted like they are now. Bumpstocks were still banned too IIRC.>>65365715>>65365823I remember coming across CRS before all this happened. He seemed like a normal guy, maybe lacking some knowledge. The moment he started saying anything about those I knew he was fucked and it seemed no one in the comments could convince him to stop advertising it and having anything to do with it. Part of me still thinks he genuinely thought nothing would go wrong because the measurements and scaling was fucked up and it wouldn't work (and IIRC he was literally advertising for free with no real benefit?) which would make it fine. Me, I wouldn't have touched that shit with a 10 foot pole and would've assumed my "friend" was trying to get me fucked. I think his heart was in the right place trying to make a gun channel of his own and share what he's learned but he's also a little retarded. Like all of us, to be fair. But fuck. That's something you learn like month one of gun ownership about gun laws. Especially as a youtuber with a following.
>>65366074Boomer's pull up the ladder behind them by subjecting zoomers to gatekeeping they themselves never experienced.Or else they just you know, ban things entirely for them.
>>65365704>that briefing from the DOJ>every single named prosecutor, agent, and fed is a foreigner name or a member of the tribe>the judge presiding is a foreign woman>the brief ends with a statement about “safer communities” that features engaging with “community violence interruption agencies and other community leaders” aka Mo’ Money Fo Dem Programs federal grant pimpsListen, those two guys were absolute retards for advertising their product as they did, but that case is everything wrong with modern America starting with the NFA and delivering the kill shot in the 65 CRA along with the Hart-Cellar immigration “reforms.” The fact that this case was prosecuted in 2023 is of absolutely no surprise to me given how the statement from the DOJ was written.
>>65365999STUPID fucking ADHD zoomer FAGGOTYou need to be a memeber of a CMP affiliate group and have proof of live fire marksmenship activities.Joining the Garand Collector's Association satisfies the CMP affiliate requirement (30 dollar online purchase)A hunting license or a CCW permit satisfies the marksmanship requirement.TO SUMMARIZE: JOIN THE GCA AND GET A HUNTING LICENSE. THEN YOU CAN UY SHIT FROM THE CMPNEXT TIME FUCKING R E A D
>>65366111>30 dollar online purchase>gatekeepingYou people are so fucking stupid>>65366097READ READ READ R E A D T H E F U C K I N G W E B S I T E YOU STUPID FUCKIJG NIGGERS! HOLY FUCKING SHIT READ READ READ READ!
I've decided zoomers actually deserve to get scalped.
M14=American SKSThat is my wisdom.
>>65364989If you get one in decent condition. The field grade gamble is real.
>>65366114>Hoover operated a YouTube channel called CRS Firearms on which he advertised Auto Key Cards. Hoover stated that his viewers could cut a lightning link out of the Auto Key Card, “drop it in your receiver, scratch your full auto itch, throw it away when you’re done” and “no one’s the wiser.”Yeah this is what I was talking about. I watched him say this exact kind of thing over and over again until he got this blatant (even as a joke) and no one could convince him it was not a good idea to be anywhere near involved with this shit let alone say anything near THIS RETARDED in addition. Shit was like a slow motion train derailment. At one point I thought this dude had to be some elaborate ATF entrapment scheme but no he really thought it'd be fine.>Ervin compensated Hoover for his advertisements by sending cash through the mail and, on one occasion, a Louis Vuitton purse.Jesus christ man, it just gets worse. At that point there's no fucking way to say you didn't have anything to do with it. Like what year does he think it is where he's not going to be turbofucked for even advertising for his buddy for free? That time passed by at the latest in the 1970s/1980s when Shotgun News had lightning links and the ATF said it's okay as long as you don't install it (lolwut?).Also yeah he really should've just gotten his earnings taken and a pp slap for being retarded enough to trust his friend at most (read: not a felony) but reality often disappoints and trying his hardest to perfectly fit the mold of the kind of guys the ATF wants to make an example of doesn't make your outcome likely to go much better.
>>6536613530 dollar fine.Time purchased at a range you may not want to be at.Audit from other boomers that you showed face and kowtowed to the all mighty boomer by not just being a nominal member but a real dicksuck.Believe me mate I'm on a union. I know boomer gatekeeping dicksuck and this is it. The way the law's written all that's really required is the membership.
>>65365348i think theyll just mill this part off most likely
>>65366208theres no range time if you already have a ccw or hunting license thoughthis is all you need>GCA membership>CCW>Passportthat's it nigra
>>65366245>mill this part offI was already in and will loe milspec rcrs. As an aside, RTG currently has BM 59 parts kits.
>>65366208Holy shit dude just say you're a lazy nigger who can't read
>>65364481You telling me boomers have been sitting on a stockpile of tens, maybe even hundreds of thousands of m14s for decades and are only now going to sell them for no doubt $2k or more a piece when they got them for basically free in the 70s and 80s? Where do i sign up(to put boomers in the home)?
>>65364481Definitely gonna cop one now. Only reason I haven't up until this point is because the modern ones are built by springfield and I'd rather fuck a bucket of dog shit than give my money to springfield. I just hope they're not gonna be sold for 9999 Dolans like I think they're gonna be.
>>65365692What ever happened to that one muppet looking cleft pallet baby faced wigger YouTuber with the shitty half finished tattoos that went to the joint over this shit?
>>65365264Their weird Jewish affiliation nonsense simply should not exist. It should exist as a way to sell weapons to American citizens and the only say they should have is "yes" if your purchase is legal.
>>65365264How is it saving $1000 on a rifle when private market prices are always within $300+- and you don't need to fill out a gorillion application forms and a triple quadrouple double check background check "just in case the first two failed" and then you have to recite carlos hathcock's sniper's creed backwards in authentic North Vietnamese while holding your nose and doing a pistol squat and then you wait 6 months for your acceptance letter and then you're finally allowed to have an interview, where is the savings? Show it to me because this makes no sense
>>65366255shall not be infringed by gay boomers
CMP should be liquidated, its agents executed with their stock, and the weapons sold at shipping cost to any confirmed natural-born American that wants one.
How much do people think they're going to be?
>>65366879Mashallah
>>65366132Choke on a dick you raging idiot.
>>65366255Thanks anon for the clear info
>>65366905Easily $3k
>>65365459Thanks, Doc
>>65366139Many people do, regardless of thier retardation. For one thing, a free market brings a fair price, whether you think it is or not, whether you can afford it or not. For another, people who do pay what seems like an unfair price are CHOOSING to pay that. Swift tickets are $1200/ea? Pay it or don't. Those who do chose to. One this will also always be true, the M14/M1A makes people seeth, like frothing at the mouth seeth. Once aain, Uncle Willy is right, >"The lady doth protest too much, me thinks,"Act 3, Scene 2
>>65366454>like I think they're gonna be.They won't. The will be high. They will be higher than they should be. The dollar is worth less than it should be. My back hurts more than it should. There are alot of things you can count on in life. And among them is they will be higher than they should be and the dollar is worth less than it should be. Factor that in with demand, mods, admin and refurb costs and they could push $2k. $1500 would be nice.
>>65365999You are unironically illiterate.
>>65366999I'm in favor of socialism when it's selling the citizenry government subsidized arms
>>65366323If by boomers do you mean the US military? Why is every naysayer itt such a massive fucking retard
>>65366208This poster seems to be an ESL brownoid based on word choice, turns of phrase and weird punctuation. They are likely a nogunz foreigner. Please don't argue with them, they're 'tarded.
>>65367040This has a certain reasonable tactic. Yet, there will always be graft, this is human nature.
>>65366323>they got them for basically free in the 70s and 80s?Yeah. What mental gymnastics is this, Nadia?
>>65364481They'll be at least $3,000 and retired boomers will buy them up before any young people do then immediately list them on GB for 10x
>>65366879>I should get free shit because im too lazy to fill out 3 pages of paperwork and pay 30 bux>>65366139 this guy is 100% right and im a zoomer
>>65367135I live in talladega is ill just buy one in person the day they release themSucks to suck haha
>>65367135>GB for 10xMy God! That's $30,000! No zoomie zoom zoom can afford that! They would have to sell thier Nissan Vibes And Playstations!
>>65367135>retired boomers will buy them upHere we go again...
>>65367150That's most zoom zoom's entire life worth.
>>65367144>I live in talladegaMy condolences. >b.but we have cmp and the racewayShit soup is still shit.
>>65367156>entire life worthYes, I know. It's hard to be young. But the advantages they have are health, looks, intelligen.. never mind. They will learn over time that the accumulation of wealth is a valid goal in life, unless you are a monk or a hippie.
>>65367159Yeah its a shithole. And honestly I dont give a shit about racing either. I may just pull a private pyle with my new m14 next year lol
>>65366999Nothing makes me a commie faster than some faggot defending the "free market"
>>65367174Go og and smile when you do.
>>65367183>yeah, because homicidal tyrants are coolOk Pol Pot, up against the wall.
>>65367183Why do you deserve it more than Der Boomer? Theyre simply more willing than you. Might makes right right?
>>65367183It's because "free market" arguments are always absurdly intellectually dishonest, they have a knack for ignoring or underplaying market restrictions that they're fine with, while demonizing real or proposed market restrictions that they find personally inconvenient.
>>65367196>underplaying market restrictions that they're fine withUnder playing the 3 pg entry form? Do you also complain that showing a DL to vote or buy beer is discrimination? Please discribe the "market restriction" for CMP that drives you to socialism?
>>65367196This. Niggas wax poetically philosophical about the invisible handjob of the free market and all of it is just in service to them scamming you on some shit and posturing like youve got something worthwhile and unique
nothing one-shots Johnny Zoomer like a form, apparently.
>>65367265I dont get what they're complaining about. Its been a few years but I dont remember it being any worse than a 4473. I think they're just complaining to complain
>>65367284I think it's the notary, zoomers notoriously have issues with fucking drive-through orders because of social anxiety, javing yo go to a notory terrifies them
>>65367291Thats it? I thought almost everybody had to use the notary at least once in high school. I had to twice, once for some asvab stuff and again to get my "dual enrollment" credits released to the college I went to
>>65367251>just in service to them scamming youYou are conflating "free market" with "free shit", when you should be more alined with "free to not buy it". You still have free will and can say no and buy your shit somewhere else. YOU are free.
>>65367284>they're just complaining to complainSo they are women. This makes sense.
>>65367316of course you did you fucking old boomer
>>65367353I graduated high school in '23 lol you're probably older than me
>>65367387Why did you need to see a notary twice? I graduated in '11 and saw nary a one.
>>65367409Well for the credits it was because of some computer database bullshit not working iirc. I dont remember why for the asvab
>>65367327Boomers have the option of repatriating boatloads of unused surplus GI M14s and selling them under the same conditions as any old Grand Rapids boom stick from S-Mart but you would rather restrict the supply in as many ways as possible and call that freedom and anyone who disagrees with you is a commie who wants free shit
>>65367520>optionOPTIONAL. Stopped reading there.
>>65367547As long as you admit that the "free market" is a fictional character the same as the Tooth Fairy and Superman we're good
>>65364481a good number of these would be valid replacements for M7s. These are very high quality DMR rifles >>65364526hopefully the good ones go up for auction, I'm going to be pissed if they have Sage EBRs for $3500
>>65367547And like a retard assumed that option existed for others>the day of the pillow cannot come soon enough
>>65367556>admitI admit you can freely buy elsewhere and identify as a bottom.
>>65367565>assumed that option existed for othersI assume nothing. You can buy anywhere you can afford. You can't afford, don't blame others because you're not entitled enough or self sufficient enough. Should have learned a skill besides gaming. Heh.
>>65367560>Sage EBRDoubting there will be anything other than as issued, 1961 service grade.
>>65367560>do your time in Afghanystan >have to carry this 15+ pound uncomfortable hunk of shit over your shoulder>4+ years later come home>send your M1A off to Mr. Smith to get Mk14 Mod 0 EBR'd>That'll be $10,000 plus tip>wait the customary 18 months>see the exact same rifle on CMP for $3500
>>65364481Always nice to see how much the thought of having to actually shoot their gunkopops abhors the average /k/ user. Bravo.
>>65367604Well, its a little hard for them to lift a gun considering their main sources of protein are bottles of s.oylent and avocado toast.
>>65364481>production>quality>military>M14s>justifies hate by rare corner casesYeah. I hate albino midgets from eastern Haiti. Western Haitian albino midgets are g2g.
I think the CMP is going to have to put stricter limits on number of rifles you can buy in a year for theseIdeally it would be one rifle per person per lifetime
>>65367630<more gun controlI would accept "reasonable" gun control like everyone must buy one to be able to vote.
>>65367655You can buy as many gun as you want. Just not from the CMP. That kind of gun control i fully support.
>>65367630veterans and 10+ year CMP members should get first bid, and one rifle.
>>65367673That i disagree withIf your eligible, you're eligible, no need for favoritism
>>65366461NTA but CRS? He's out and back on his channel. Now a felon but back at it.
The retards ITT who think the CMP should sell these rifles to cheap for anyone are missing the point of the organization. The CMP's primary goal is to encourage the public to pursue marksmanship. They accomplish this by selling rifles below market to people who have put in the minimum effort to show that they have pursued shooting. I am 30, I bought my first CMP M1 at 21. For every lil zoom that can't be bothered to fill a couple of forms is a boomer that will take advantage of the system. By the way, if they sold these rifles at the same cost without the same requirements then the situation would be so much worse. >>65367630They will probably start with one or two as a limit and reduce it over the years. That's what they do with all of their sales. The CMP used to have a one rifle/lifetime limit, then they made it one per year, and then 4, 8 and unlimited. At least for M1s.
>>65367686Alright, prohibit the purchasers from reselling them for a period of 10 years, and still limit them to one.
>>65367692>regulating guns Kill yourself bootlicker
>>65367692It's against the CMP's terms to do that. Good luck enforcing that.
>>65367680holy shit he already served three yearsseems like it was just yesterday
>>65367692Is that even feasible with the ability to simply do a private transfer Who will stop boomer joe from selling his gun to boomer jim with no paperwork
>>653676153 rifles were delivered with bores too small for 7.62, 3 rifles were delivered with bores too big, the barrels had bad quality control. The stocks were poorly made causing accuracy issues.
>>65367695>CMP M14 on Fuddbroker>$5000 opening bid
>>65367686Yeah these will be so hot they'll definitely have a 1 rifle limitBut I think there will be so much hype and the price will be low enough that they'll still probably run out quickly
>>65367711Why not just buy one from the CMP instead?
>>65367711>i know what i got
>>65367712It just depends, a lot of the vietnam era rifles got hand selected and upgraded for GWOT, these upgrades turn a $1500 rifle into an $8k rifle. If they're selling GWOT Mk14s like type SEIs they better put those on auction.
>>65367709>6 rifles out of 1,376,031
>>65367715Having to fill out paperwork and going to a notary makes zoomers piss their pants
>>65367686>for cheapYou retards keep saying this but you can't seem to explain why a clapped out "reclaimed" garand with a modern stock for $1600 that I have to wait 6 months for and do a bunch of extra bullshit to beg to have the privilege of buying is cheaper or better than an original garand with original stock that I can buy right now for $1400
>>65367717Right but im thinking of a rack grade, h&r, muzzle 3 throat 5, salty fiberglass stock, plain old gi rifle
>>65367726I'll take one if it's cheap
>>65367711Then just don't be a retard and buy the rifle from the CMP. Then once you figure out how to do it, tell your friends too. Its that easy. >>65367712Yeah I figure they will be too, at least for the first year. I wonder how many 1911s they got, those started at a 1 per, but now I think it's 4. >>65367717It would be kind of crazy if they sell the EBRs as rack grade rifles or something like they did sell the SOCOM 1911s as rack grades. I doubt it too. >>65367720>how do I scroll my order form>>65367721Good reading comprehension, those rifles are 1150. I'm sure you used the same argument back when there were still $700 field grades.
>>65367709>The stocks were poorly made causing accuracy issues.It is the poor carpenter who blames his tools. Some people just suck at shooting. That is why the DCM was created. >Department of Civilian Marksmanship
>>65367721Reclaimed rifles are 1150Cmp had rack, field, and service grades with orginal barrels and stocks from 750-1000 last time I went to the south store a couple months ago
>>65367711>don't bidProblem soled. Stop whining.
>>65367726Most of them probably got rearsenaled in the late 60s and 70s so they probably won't have that bad of a bore
>>65365728Are you being stupid on purpose?
>>65367731Even if we ignore the pricing of the actual rifle it's just a completely bizarre argument that pretends we're still living in 1975. If you want the public to pursue marksmanship there are millions of rifles made to modern standards that shoot modern cartridges with modern accuracy. You cannot seriously believe this encourages marksmanship and isn't just a way to sell collector rifles to collectors? This is fantasy talk.>$1 per round>gratuitously high noise levels and recoil>2 MOA accuracy because that was good enough for grandpa in the great war>comes with a "needs to be inspected by a gunsmith or you'll die" warning>$1000+If you really want to encourage civilians to get good at shooting sell them 10/22s or entry level ARs or something that actually uses ammo that you can find outside of a vintage reenactment setup
>>65366255>>65366319>>65367088>ITS NOT GATEKEEPING OKAY?!?!?!>Now, here is all the requirements to purchase a legal item in the capitalist shit hole economic zone previously known as Free White Persons town. >did I need any of those? Of course not renter! I own 50 machine guns and 32 brown people! Fuck you. I ordered guns through a catalog to my door but cheered for Hughes and amnesty! >WHAT?!? WHY ARE YOU DRAGGING ME TO THE WALL?!?
>>65367721Where are you getting these numbers from
>>65367799never mind that the number of 500+ yard ranges in the United States is too damn low. If I want to use a 1,000 yard range the closest one is 4 hours away. I hope it's not like this everywhere else
>>65367814Okay. It is gatekeeping, definitely. And thats a good thing. Yeah the notary and membership stuff are just hoops to jump through. If you aren't willing to jump thru a couple hoops, you dont deserve the rifles, full stop. Sure boomer scalpers should have their hands cut off. But lazy whining zoomers should be crucified
>>65367799>$1/round granted, but CMP has the rifles that its inhereted from the government. They sell .22's too>gratuitously high noise levels and recoilDon't be a bitch, my wife, a 115 pound woman can shoot an M1 without issues>comes with a needs to be inspected warningSince when? CMP rifles are professionally refit and inspected before sale. >$1,000+They were cheaper, but I'm sure you had the same cope a year ago when you could still get a $650 rack grade. >>65367814My issue with fellow young men, is that you all have convinced yourself that the system is so rigged against you that you refuse to participate in it, but then have the audacity to complain that you are a loser and that you feel like something is owed to you. Half of the young man's criticism of the boomer is a projection. There is literally NOTHING stopping you from getting a CMP rifle today except a few sheets of paper. >>65367827Do you really think the M1 is a 500 yard gun? I mean sure if you are shooting a USMC 500 yd target which is the size of a small car. The M1 is just a microcosm of this, but if you want something stop telling yourself reasons why you can't get it, and figure it out.
Grim number of people in here getting filtered by the CMP application process of all things. Hope they never have to reregister their vehicle in another state, or go through a home loan, they might go catatonic.
>>65367799>$1 per roundThat how much real bullets cost sonny>gratuitously high noise levels and recoilApplies neither to 7.62 nato nor 30-06>2 MOA accuracy because that was good enough for grandpa in the great warFor 99.95% of modern gun owners a rifle more accurate than that would be wasted on them>comes with a "needs to be inspected by a gunsmith or you'll die" warningTotal nonsense, the CMP thoroughly gauges, magnafluxes, and inspects every rifle they sell beforehand>$1000+So is every non shit AR
>>65367850There is no alternative to registering a car. There are much, much better alternatives to the rube goldberg ritual you went through to buy an antique for a completely made up "discount"
>>65367850Many zoomers dont even have driver's licenses and most still live with their parents
>>65367860If a brief form and a notary signature is a labyrinthine process to you then you are genuinely doomed and will get raped sidewise by escrowing until the day you die.
>>65367860you're going to pay $1800 for a rack grade from a fat boomer at a gunshow and feel smug about it because filling out a little form svared you and then wonder why you are so terrible at managing everything in your existence
>As part of an ongoing effort to encourage driving skills, for a limited time the DOT will be selling authentic, ex-federal government Ford LTDs for only $57,000 (field grade), $75,000 (patrol grade). You just need to get a notary to sign off that you've joined the AAA and your local off road race track and then submit to 3 separate anal probes to confirm you don't have any illegal narcotics stuffed in your rectum and when your application is approved you just have to pay for whatever we give you and you don't get to choose>Oh btw these only take leaded gasoline which you can get through our separate Civilian Drivership Program tank refills devision (6 month waitlist per refill), only $10 per gallon, what a steal!>/k/ - LMAO filtered by an application jajajajajaa
>>65367893you're a gunless child crashing out over something you could never afford to acquire to begin with. go outside.
>>65367860>much, much better alternativesGetting raped by billybob in the pawn shop for a repark'd H&R that haz a 5-rated crown is not exactly a win for you
>>65367869Ooh watch out for Mr. Adult here he used "escrow" in a sentence
>>65367893Honestly I wouldYour prices are nonsense but I would totally want to buy old federal shitboxesOne of my dream cars is the 1981 Impala prototypes they used as staff cars and whatnot for the feds with the 6.2 dieselYeah i know they make like 130hp I dont care
>>65367916you had to look up what that meant just now didn't you kiddo?
>>65366140American SKS designed by a Canadian
The crazy thing is that once you place your first order with the CMP you don't have to notarize future orders and it's generally a lot quicker. I'm going to continue to have rifles shipped to my door. The two M14s I will order are for you little zoom. >>65367927More like designed by a committee based on a French-Canadian design.
>>65367916Good luck out there man.
>>65367927lived in America since he was 11, he's American.
>>65367799>uses ammo that you can find outside of a vintage reenactment setupHoly cope-a-roni!
>>65367850bold of you to assume the copers in here own their own cars and have any hope of ever getting approved for a mortgage
>>65367918I think it's great that they're selling collectors items to collectors but let's call it what it is: collectors items for collectors. Like the US Mint selling proof sets, nobody is going to put those quarters into a phone booth but this is the same concept. My complaint is that they are sticking with this laughable story about "improving marksmanship" and acting like it's some amazing deal when it's basically just Nike selling limited edition sneakers and you guys are lining up like a bunch of sneakerheads at the Nike Store in South Philadelphia except even Nike doesn't make you fill out all the dumb extra paperwork. And you guys are acting like I'm crazy for thinking this is dumb.>>65367924I'm sure that's what happened in the fantasy world you're living in Mr. Adult.
>>65367983you seem painfully autistic and not in the way that belongs here. perhaps you should go elsewhere.
>>65367835>jump thru a couple of hoopsI have the job and the money. I give you money and you give me product. That's it. Anything else is just pure nepotistic egotism that creates boomer hoa scams and torment against my people. >>65367844>hello my fellow young people. I never called myself a loser and demanding a fair cut from a SOCIETY is perfectly reasonable. People like you are parasitical scum that can only step on those you personally perceive as lower to you because you appeal to authority. You wanting to get cucked and lick boots is your fucking problem and expectation. Refusing to take part in an unreasonable and overtly expectant system with zero gain above the simple predetermined process is why America exists in the first place. The founders curse you, loser bootlicker.
>>65367990Nah. Say "escrow" again, maybe it will make you feel better
>>65367983The CMP uses the proceeds from selling surplus arms to fund gun safety and marksmanship programs across the country you absolute dipshit, did you actually think all they were doing was selling Garands and saying that's what people are supposed to gitgud with?Blithering idiot.
>>65367993Post a gun you own
>>65367993So go find a supplier who doesnt make you jump through hoops. If these rifles are so cheap and plentiful, surely the market will provide a solution that is satisfactory to you.
this guy's obviously just some shitter bored out of his mind and looking for attention on a Sunday. stop feeding him and maybe he'll fund something more constructive to do.
people complaining about the CMP application process are retarded. 5 minutes of research will tell you that it's not that bad. shit, even boomers figured it out.t. 22 year old zoomer that will be getting one
>>65368023Like jerk off?
>>65368015>>65368020I will take your concessions with pride gentlemen. Now get the fuck out of my Nation.
Loser aside now, what's the origination of the current M1s available currently?
>>65368070Phillipines i thinkThats why most of them have new stocks, the originals were destroyed by humidity and bugs and shit
Wait, so are we gonna get M-16s in a few years?
>>65368122Probably notAll m16a1s either got sent overseas or got turned into a2s then into a4s m4s etc.A couple years ago when those m16a1 kits were coming in cheap, those were phillipine returns too
>>65368122I wouldn't count on it. there are parts kits from southeast asia though.
>>65364747>>65364756>>65364774they're making M1 repros, they might start making1903 repros. One guy at my range shoots a sporterized 1917 at high power matches>>65364481>>65364484On the one hand, basedon the other hand, one guy at my high power matches shoots an M1A and I've never seen it get through an entire match without a stoppageand on the third hand, I didn't really like a FAL when I shot one due to the concussion. I also didn't like an 18.5 inch barrel 12 gauge due to the concussion. I have a 16 inch and a 20 inch AR and a 20 inch .22lr and I can shoot those all day and they don't bother me, but the concussion off the FAL wasn't pleasant
>>65367827>500+ yard rangesPrivate or public?
>>65367827anon a Garand is 3-4 MOA weapon...
>>65367850>go through a home loanThis is just boomers keeping us down trodden in a renter class of surfdom. There is literally nothing anyone can do to buy a home because the system is rigged against all youth.
>>65364882>>65365999>>65366864>muh market value>muh inflated pricesOh point me to the open market US military surplus M-fucking-14s? Oh yeah there are literally fucking zero, ever, because they're M14s, owned by the US military, used in combat.>durr it coss mowe dan spwingfeelYou fucking nitwits, there is no market price because there is no market. These have never been available, like the M1911s and Garands they sold before. They are genuine military surplus, not commercial guns. CMP MAKES the market. You don't get to decide what it is, just like you don't get to decide to pay rent below local market value.God the rentoid seethe is intolerable anymore. You fucking penniless crabs in a bucket zoomers will ruin the planet if you can even manage to pass a literacy test and get hired to a position of importance to begin with. Fuck me this board needs IDs and mandatory photographic proof of weapon ownership before posting is permitted.
>>65367860>goldberg ritualYes, filling out a paper with writting is a horrid experience. I just want click and pay and next day delivery. Anything else is boomers oppressing me.
>>65368210>surfdomCowabunga
>>65367864Cars are just boomers keeping us down to oppress us. Eveything should be delivered to my door with 1 click free shipping.
>2030>Clapped to shit CMP M14s on gunbroker for 3500 dollars plus tip
>>65367799>>65368197>>65367827My state does our NRA high power matches at a range that only goes out to 300 yards. if you read the CMP and NRA rules they have reduced sized targets for smaller ranges. most people use ARs with scopes for high power now. Both the CMP and NRA sell .22lrs at pretty close to wholesale costs for small bore and there are small bore competitions and ranges all around the US year round, but small bore is a different beast because you don't need to know your comeups and you aren't fighting the wind. not that we really fight the wind where I shoot because it has like 0 affect on the 200 yard range and there are enough trees and shit I don't really notice it at 300 yards. maybe it's a bigger deal during slow fire prone
>>65368122No, Bill Clinton had a ton of them crushed
>>65367850how do you like that autonug anon?
>>65368236Wack.
>>65364526easily 2k+ or more
>>65368210Bleak.>>65368242Imagine a Garand, but worse in literally every way except mag capacity.
>>65368064>still hasn't posted guns
>>65367850I don't really care about the CMP paperwork, if I really wanted an M1 or M14 I'd go ahead and get it done. Really I'm just here to crap on boomers. I'll gladly be a mercenary to any cause that craps on boomers because they are scum>picrelIncredibly beautiful auto nugget anon. If CMP started selling those id sign up immediately
Zoom zooms really are just an entire generation of this meme
>>65368235>most people use ARs with scopes for high power nowMost people are so.y guzzling faggots, it takes a real man to shoot iron sights.
>>65368332I shoot high power with irons, but ever since they legalized 4.5x35 scopes or whatever to simulate acogs the majority of shooters use LPVOs for high power matches
>>65368346Those shooting irons and flexing over it are literally bragging about disadvantage. I do it and it is a crucial rifleman skill, but will always acknowledge the superiority of magnified bcd optics. We should literally have flying cars by now and steam power is overrated for everything except in-home heating.
>>65368480>and steam power is overrated for everything except in-home heating.and pc games.
>>65368480you literally posted that only soys use optics>>65368332I have an optic on my HD/SHTF AR carbine and a section of rail to mount one to my .22, by I shoot my high power rifle with irons, it has an A2 carry handle and I shoot my .22 with irons.I agree an optic is better. I get better groups on my .22 with a reddot than with the peep sights
>>65368486>only soys use opticsI literally mocked them and said I do it. Embrace the duality.
>>65364481>trolls go to bed at sunsetReassuring in an odd way.
>>65369042Boomers, markup, GB, etc
>>65364481I don't buy it unless it is gonna be new receivers. All kinds of stuff going on with the govt right now are big promises that run into pesky details like laws. Someone's gonna point out this isn't legal if you follow historic ATF guidelines.
>>65369130the ATF waived the whole "once a mg" thing for these though. "special authorization"which isnt actually a law, just a (((ruling)))
>>65368213this boomer/gen x faggot is MALDING lol
>>65369136Wake me when the guns hit the street. This is the kind of thing that gets walked back once the PR dance is over.
>>65369150there's no "PR dance," they've made a few example conversions, sent them to the atf, and got them approved, full stop.
Boomers aren't dying off fast enough for these to be boomer hoarded to shit, any choice pieces will go on CMP auctions.
>>65369190they can have the choice pieces. people who sperg about all correct drawing numbers are gay
>anon asks an interesting technical question>another anon provides a likely answer>rest of thread consists of zoomers and thirdies flinging shit at each other and bitching about how hard it is to buy guns that they will never own anywayPottery.>>65365348>>65366245 is likely correct. CMP has been discussing this at least as far back as the nineties, only to be stonewalled by BATF. Any rational person would say, "So you're permanently modifying the receiver by removing a part that would allow the use of FA parts, meaning that restoring it to its original condition would require both precision machining and welding? Yeah, that's effectively permanent. Tell the Army they can finally get rid of their shitty rifles that they've been trying to unload for the last twenty years and have fun out there." Unfortunately the ATF doesn't have a reputation for rationality. Fortunately, this "once a machine gun always a machine gun" bullshit wasn't actually a law, just an opinion illegally enforced as law, so here we are.
I doubt I would have any interest at +$3k, some at $2k, likely buy at $1.5k. Ymmv.
Top bantz in this thread. Unfortunately, you will never get full auto. Every adult has agreed that allowing tards legal access to them would be unacceptable. That means no one gets them. FRT's are an intelligence test so if you own one you failed it.
>>65370528>rapid fire!>at MY range!>dons orange vest>waddles>pants>3 SECONDS BETWEEN SHOTS>these damn kids and their ak15's, we aint had them in nam
>>65369130>>65369136>>65369150the last time the gayTF did something like this, selling M1 Carbines, they just changed the law and said minimum barrel length was 16 inches for centerfires instead of 18 inches. that's why SBRs and SBS are different lengths
>>65370124>>rest of thread consists of zoomers and thirdies flinging shit at each other and bitching about how hard it is to buy guns that they will never own anywayit's crazy how the majority of /k/ posters are now third world no gunz war tourists and how if anything most /k/ posters are now against private gun ownership
>>65370823>anything most /k/ posters are now against private gun ownershipThat's not funny, it's ironic at best, contrary at worst.
>>65370873go into one of the war tourist threads. most of the war tourists are against private gun ownership and will shit talk the US for not having stricter gun laws
>>65370823>it's crazy how the majority of /k/ posters are now third world no gunz war tourists and how if anything most /k/ posters are now against private gun ownershipThere's always been an element of that here, but it really ramped up in 2022 for some reason.
>>65370927Man your experience is wildly different than mine.
>>65370927So, """yuropoors" in general?
>>65367140>freeNo, they're ours, we already paid for them.
>>65370962>I paid for a rifle built in 1962Actually the boomers did, which is why they're getting most of them kek
>>65370947>but it really ramped up in 2022 for some reason.that's when the war tourism started>>65370951yeah>>65370949seems like most nonAmericans on most boards are anti gun
>>65367655>I would accept "reasonable" gun control like everyone must buy one to be able to vote.here's your voting card sir
>>65371025I legit want one of these to keep in my tool bag, normies would thing it's a torch or some shit
>>65364526If its under 2k, they will sell like hotcakes. I sure fucking wish I could buy one, but I don't know where to qualify in my area
>>65371050yeah it does look like some of the angle grip screw drivers
>>65364481I for one am looking forward to having the opportunity to own a legit surplus M14 to go along with my CMP M1 and M1911A1. Hopefully, they don't get flagged by various AWBs still in effect.
>>65367993>I never called myself a loserYes you just are a loser because you demand free shit that you could get for putting in a nominal amount of effort. It's a simple process
>>65364481I can't wait for all of them to be bought up by 70iq boomers that flood every single shot-out and beat to shit m14 export ever onto gunbroker at a starting bid equal to the MSRP of an M1A when their spiritually-jewish harridans of wives chimp 3 months later
>>65371289I can't wait for you not to place an order with the CMP and complain that you never got one.
I have an early '90s M1A that's all mint USGI except for the receiver. Any point to getting one of these things?
>>65371296I can't wait to not place an order because I don't want to get started on any BHD larp builds until after I finish getting my MA5B-lookalike figured out and then find out in 6 years when I look up what happened to these rifles that they all got bought up by people that are dying without ever selling and that every time somebody tries to sell one they try to put a markup on it
>>65371326I dont think so unless youre a sperg for rollmarks
>>65371328>MA5B-lookalike figured outDang that does sound pretty cool actually. Anyway if they come out at a reasonable price (for me that'll be between 1.5-2.5) I think you should get one. Funny you mention that though, pic rel is how I had my M1A for a short while. What are you thinking about using as the basis to for your MA5B? >>65371326That's how my M1A is too. I'm getting one because it would be nice to have one with a GI barrel, my national match is on the heavy end with it's bedded stock and barrel. I was going to just get a regular M1A fortunately didn't before the announcement.
>>65371383If BSquared or DWAI don't release files (I'm losing hope) a new ODST larper just came out with his own build which I might copy to the best of my ability (I'll see if I can find him)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqIZGYi4NW0If that doesn't work I'll just get an FM15 and figure out how to rebarrel to 20 inches and snap it onto an A3 Triad, spin up my printer, and spend a while learning blender and how to make some mlok-on cosmetics that can make this mockup I have for a Reach DMR work as my backup cope
>>65370927You're right and you're going to be called a vatnik by screeching browns because of it
>>65371453Neat, good luck. Years ago I bought an RFB for the same reason.
>>65371258God, I hope so. IL has been especially shitty for over 3 years now. I feel for the other ban state anons here.
>>65370970>nonAmericans on most boards are anti gunThey are in /out/.
>>65365999>I live in bum fuck Egypt there's nothing like that around mewut
>>65372083Egypt, Texas bro
>>65365999>Says you need to be affiliated with a cmp shooting range or club >Dont know how to get around this fuck you clause.Clearly you didn't read the rules then you stupid fucking nigger.
>>65372095pyramid scheme
>>65371086If you mean a club just join the GCA. If you mean the shooting requirement either use the CMP competition tracker to find a match, get a ccw permit, or find a local range with an RO who’ll sign the form from the CMP website.
>>65372201>join the Gun Control Act of 1968No thanks pal
>>65372092NTA but I genuinely could only think of Egypt, PA.>>65372148Lol
>>65370823>it's crazy~800 million Indians gained online access over the last decade. I'm not entirely convinced that this is solely responsible for the nearly complete enshittification of the internet over the past few years but it definitely answers some questions and it's a viable theory. Add in bots and I think that we've cracked the code.For /k/ in particular, we have the above, plus election year tourists, plus war tourists, plus redditors virtue signalling by pissing into an ocean of piss in order to own the chuds on /pol/, and add in a moderation team that no longer gives a fuck.I don't think that this site is going to be around for much longer.
>>65372319>~360 million slavs worldwide>not online, worldwide>~214 million brazilians worldwide>not online, worldwide>~800 million indians ONLINE IN THE LAST TEN YEARS but that's not a problemNice try Rajeesh. To bring this back on topic...>>65367717>a lot of the vietnam era riflesWound up on Navy ships for shooting lines and small arms qualifications. For every "hand selected" (lol) rifle that got an upgrade, there were 20 or 30 others in a ship's armory in the original configuration, getting beaten to shit in ways that no M1A ever had to go through. Care to take a guess what's going to be for sale on the CMP web site, and what's going to be available for auction?I'm actually thinking about one. Although it may be a clapped out, tore up old rifle that was rode hard and put away wet, with the poorly specced flash hider and likely fucked up sights, at least you don't have to deal with SA forgetting to tap screw holes or fucking up the heat treat. I know what goes wrong with the military ones and how to deal with it, and I'll probably still be here to talk you all through the process of fixing them when you get yours. It'll make for a nice change on /k/ I think.
>>65371453>5.56For what purpose?
>>65373256Cheaply available parts and ease of conversion. I don't own a 12000 dollar 5 axis CNC machine or have 10 grand in loose tool steel and 7075t6 bar stock or any of the shit I'd need to CHF a barrel in 6.67mm Glorpshit Magnum to make my own fully-custom oneofakind halo dmr (REAL!!! NOT CLICKBAIT!!!) out of to impress someone I'm never going to see in person on a Tajikistani TCH-and-semen brownie-baking imageboard
>>65373725I thought they were in real fukken nato though
>>65372295>I don't think that this site is going to be around for much longerI remember seeing people post this in 2009
>>65373748They are. The AR is probably the only Halo gun aside from the shotgun that uses a real cartridge. I could understand defaulting to 5.56 if it didn't or uses something that's unobtanium, but who the fuck can't get a cheap AR-10 kit for a Youtube project that's guaranteed to get clicks and ad revenue?
>>65366245You can't cut that off of the receiver without also welding up the dismount slot, which would mean they would have to modify the receivers like the M1A.Most likely they'll just do what Springfield did for National Match rifles. (pic related)
Where can I find surp riot gear helmets?
>>65374124Botach has some of various vintage and ballistic protectionBut the national guard who shot those students at kent state had garands not m14s
>>65372366I'm White, American and I own guns, retard. go on /pol/ and check out how many shitty anti gun anti American posts have slav flags vs how many have jeet or memeflags.plus like 100% of the brazilians on 4chan are leftwing faggots for some reason>>65372066there are a ton on /k/. all of the war tourists are nonAmerican
>>65374124We only want to help you!
>>65366208>>30 dollarOk, then give the Liberal Gun Club $15 for a yearly membership. Or literally the $14.00 M1 collectors club.There are cheaper options out there. Stop complaining and use the post office. https://theliberalgunclub.com/membership/benefits/https://m1collectorsclub.com/legal-information
>>65366132>get the corn cobs out of your eye sockets next time tough guyFucking Jerky Boys style of helping somebody out right there
>>65368148just the sound of that alone
>>65368201That only matter to people who actually qualified with a rifle before. Most of these bedroom dwellers cant even be sure they sighted in the rifle after 300 shots. Just saying not hating it is what it is
>>65374476I'm into guns, not thirdies. I don't go to /pol/. I see that you do and I thank you for filling me in on the happenings of the third world, although I don't care about it as much as you seem to.>I'm White, American and I own gunsYou're not acting the part. I provided numbers. You provided autistic rage. What's worse, you used your experience on /pol/ to make an appeal to authority. Take some time to think about that. If you're what you claim to be, you'll likely be horrified. If not...well, that would be something to think about too.
>>65364481anyone have a clue what they will cost?
>>65375386next time you see a shit thread, start shit talking slavs in it. poles, croatians, serbs, yugos, lithuanians, ectI guarantee the shit anti gun anti American thread or post was made by a slav. most of the anti American anti gun posting on /tv/, /v/ and /k/ is done by eastern and southern yuros your "numbers" are also in the lies, damn lies and statistics category because they don't necessarily correlate to who is posting on 4chan. you can go pull up "user traffic" data for 4chan. the second largest user of 4chan is brazil, not india. most of the anti American posters on /int/ and /sp/ are also eastern yuropoors, southern yuropoors and ausfalians/new zealandalso indians wouldn't accuse people of being russian all the time. they accuse people of being pakistani or chinese. there are a ton of shit posters who accuse people of being russian
>within 20 posts thread devolves into showing exactly what is wrong with my peopleI'm so embarrassed by all of you that I went onto my PC to type this reply out using my broken hand.The future really is going to be what should have been an avoidable collapse.Repeat of ancient history for the 50th time.Fucking pathetic.I think the kids are right, and all the olds should just be executed indiscriminately.
>>6537538942
>>65365703>the right of the people to keep and bear armsscalpers aren't people
>>65375592>scalpersScalpers took the scalps off dead ememies to prove the kill. Whires only copied the native practice. For every atrocity visited by whites against "The Noble Savages", there were 3 of equal to worse perpetrated by the indians, even against their native rivals.
