We’ve barely seen the ZSU-23-4 throughout the whole war compared to other soviet gear. Has there been any footage of Russians trying to shoot down drones with it? 6,500 have been built, why not use them instead of mobik technicals?
>>65365063We have no idea how many are in use and how many have been destroyed. As of 2024 there was about 60 with the Marines* and unknown amount with the army.*Marines aren't any different from the army these daysAs for shooting stuff down, no idea. But they weren't designed for it.
>>65365063In the first few months of the war there were lots of "vlog"-style videos by russians at various vehicle depots near the front showing off rows of these things, bitching about how they were all horrendously neglected and non-functional. That there were no spare parts available, and that they had to cannibalize several vehicles to get a single one into a partially operational state. A lot of them were also abandoned and destroyed.I guess the russians never had that many in "operational" condition in the first place, and most of them were simply abandoned, or destroyed within the first year of the war.
>>65365063>why not use them instead of mobik technicals?The original vehicle is an over-complicated (for soviet standards of maintenance) piece of shit, which instantly would break in field use or even storage. Mechanical/electro-mechanical computing in the fire control system. Nuff said. Might have worked for german autists, but not soviets. So most basically broke and never got fixed. On top of that, they are actually uber shit out of the box, it took like 18+ seconds to lock in onto a target or something. Ukies actually had to "modernize" theirs by throwing out the BS fire control system (and some other crap) and making their own digital one from COTS shit, which would actually make it usable, such as decreasing target acquisition time from 18 to 0.2 seconds, more than doubling the detection range and being able to track up to 20 targets simultaneously. Without such upgrades, these shitboxes are just scrap metal. And russian chose to go all in on TOR and Pantsir shitboxes instead, viewing modernizaiton of Shilkas as impractical.
3 O'CLOCKENEMYSHILKA100OH NO1 IS DOWN
>>65365063Probably not operational since Afghanistan
>>65365063The shilkas have no armor, the turret is the same as a BTR and the hull is technically 15mm if you account for angle, so its actually more like 10-12 front on. People look at it and think wow an AA tank, but its actually built off the same standard tractor as the TOR and several soviet SAMs; and so isn't able to handle more than rifle fire. Those 4 2A7s would legitimately be more useful on the backs of technicals.
>>65365082The Shilka's 'targeting computer' was/is electro-mechanical.Which is to say that it didn't survive storage, requires special knowledge to maintain and repair and cannot be reproduced or replaced.Tunguska was teh one where tehy made Vlogs about how it's all not working etc.No real idea why, I assume that Major Koruptovich just sold off all the electronics 12 years ago.
>>65365063>>65365085>18 seconds to acquire a target.Man, what were they expecting to fight with these?
>>65366327>introduced in 1960F111s apparently.
>>65366333>F-111>18 seconds to interceptlmao
>>65366327low flying cas, to protect armored columns
>>65365063They pop up in Ukrainian channels from time to time.
>>65366327>>65366333Well, no, not really. They knew that guns with a few km range were not good against actual fast movers.They were meant to counter low-flying late 50s types, and helos.They started development in 1957, which meant they were basically looking at Korean War fighter bombers going in with rockets and napalm and wanted to build something mobile to counter that.They pretty much followed the same reasoning that led to the Germans builing Wirbelwind in 1943.It just took them 10 years to get it into service, another three or so to get it into full production, and now they have a mobile AA gun meant to shoot down F-84s shallow-diving on targets. . . but now the enemy has F-111 going well over mach 1 with laser guided bombs and A-7s with TV guided missiles.>blyatWell OK but at least it's good against all those new helicopters!Which it was. Kinda.Except NATO put ATGMS with 4 km range on those helos.>cyka blyatMeanwhile, Germany basically built the Gepard and did things right. It is still limited by gun range, but it has fast enough acquisition and computerized radar.And against 1970s Soviet ATGMs, the gun range is probably close enough to make Hind pilots sweat.
>>65366356This is from 2023.
>>65366409It's funny how you immediately see teh problems the system has.>you must use short 12 - 16 rounds bursts to avoid overheating>more than 200 rounds per minute overload the liquid cooling systemAlso>you have to shut down the hydraulic drives for the guns after two hours to allow everything to cool downIt's easy to laugh at the thing, but theywere really trying wit htheir 1950s tech.OTOH, the Nazis built Wirbelwind, which at least kinda worked and did the same thing. Wirbelwind might also have had better armor.
>>65365063>Russia>9 ZSU-23-4 Shilka>(1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (1, abandoned) (1, damaged and captured) (2, captured) (3, captured) (4, captured) (5, captured)>Ukraine>5 ZSU-23-4 Shilka>(1, destroyed) (1, damaged) (1, abandoned) (1, captured) (2, captured)That is surprizing, I figured they just weren't getting much attention but it seems they just aren't there.
>>65366441Really small numbers, considering the scale of Russian losses.
>>65366409What is causing the flames to flare up from the gun barrel housing?Does the gas accumulate there?
>>65365176ENEMYBEA. EM PEA.500.OHNOTWOISDOWNTHIS IS 3TAKINGCOMMANDOH NO FOUR IS DOWNENEMY MAN 100OH NO FIVE IS DOWNYOU ARE DEAD"I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"
>>65366452Russia started with ~250 and Ukraine had "dozens", either hardly any still work on both sides or they are keeping them in the rear to deal with lawn mower drones.
>>65366409Same brigade using it against Shaheds, 2024(?).
>>65366436To think that WW2 Germans had been able to put out double the maintainable fire rate at 100 rounds per barrel per minute without fancy cooling systems.
>>65366455Gas accumulation, Soviet autocannons were not exactly clean firing.Or stable.Or able to fire without overheating.
>>65365063>>65366441It's a 1960s vehicle that was mostly phased out in the 80s.Furthermore the fire control system is a joke nowadays.>>65365085>>65366327>it took like 18+ seconds to lock in onto a target or somethingWorse than that: 20-30 seconds on average.
>>65366609(There is an error at the bottom by the way, the Shilka didn't see service during the 1967 Six day war, but only later during the Yom Kippur war in 1973, where it was responsible for >20% of Israeli air losses when their jets flew extremely low to avoid SAM sites.)
>>65366372They exported most of them and went all in on zu-23-2
>>65366609There is a SAM simulator where some autist has made a pretty good simulation of what it's like to operate various Soviet air defense systems, shilka included. It shows the horrendous user interface and work load it takes to lock and engage a target. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3V9OXKa3VsThe audio is severe ear rape but I'd imagine it's on par with the noise inside one of those things.
>>65366609The article really says it: Impressive and deangerous in 1967, with Israel not using the best NATO had.
I don't think they're using Shilkas anymore. All the stock were upgraded to Biryusa and Afghanskii versions even before the fall of soviet union. Russians had their own upgrade program since then but it is unknown how many were upgraded.You may laugh at the target acquisition time now but back in the 70's when the alternative was hand cranking and eyeballing the target, having a fire control system with radar tracking was a huge advantage. And it shows with how effective they were in yom kippur war for example.
>>65366583It's the former Insignia of the 36th marine brigade. So probably between 2022 and 2023.
>>65365176>ok joji you can put your face back the way it was, you wouldn't want it to stick like that>werrcum to da rice fields muddafuckka
>>65366356>A LIGA T OR?
>>65366854The didn't want to paint over the hatches, I guess.
>>65365176I loved those commando missions where you had only some grenades and a silenced MP5. You could run around the island and steal virtually anything and drive it. I always either stole a Hind or Shilka and drove/flew around just massacring everything.
>>65366638ntaI watched it. The audio sounds as bad as an Abrams interior. Amazing.The gearbox computer must be what causes that.Marvelously miserable machine, helps give a sense why it never really went anywhere.Here's the Tunguska vid btw
>>65365085i figured they just have hopelessly outdated targeting when people occasionally bring them up and how the platform should be like gepard and great against drones if it was optimized, but with barely any losses on both sides it's obvious there must be something seriously wrong with them that they just aren't used in any capacity. still, shilka is old af soviet tech so being unusable makes sense.is this same/similar with tunguska too? it's newer and so there should be at least some improvements (20 secds to 10 secs at least)
>>65366372From what I've heard, Finland stopped training crews for the ZU-23-2 "Sergei" (upgraded, known as 23 ItK 95) in 2015 (2016?) as obsolete, but kept the guns in storage. After all, if you've still got guys and munitions in reserve to fire 'em...Apparently the training of new crews restarted last year, and the guns are commonly mounted on the back of trucks. Because, y'know, drones. It can still replace most of the air with lead, so the old thing is new again.
>>65366327Helicopters probably
>>65367086
>>65366372All sold or rusted/broken. But in general the issue isn't a gun, by everything around them. Say for example there is a refinery or dildo storage warehouse you want to protect with these guns. Let's be optimistic and say that four such systems would be enough with one gun on each direction. I know it wouldn't be enough, but humor me for a second. Now, each gun would need a handful of people, like a spotter, a gunner, someone who'd bring the ammo and recharge it - crap like that. Let's say three pidors. Okay... take into account that you need 24 hours coverage, so at least three shifts, so 9 pidors. For four guns that would be 36 pidors. And all of those pidors need to piss and shit somewhere, eat, have cover from the elements and such. Someone needs to bring them to their gun and back when their shift starts/ends. Someone needs to bring them ammo from storage. You quickly see the hu... I mean pidor side of the equation starting to grow. At the end of the day you'd be looking at a ton of pidors which you need to get from somewhere. If you take them away from the front lines, then you'll get even more problems. And if you get additional volunteer retards using "totally not assault" contracts, the commander next door will steal away your pidors to throw them into assault.Bonus round: the "quality" of pidors, the current MOGs (mobile fire teams trying to shoot down drones) are filled with BARS (combat army reserve, weekend warrior uncs) subhumans, who'd more likely to kill themselves or someone else with those weapons. Good luck shooting precisely with a gun that needs manual targeting.
>>65366966>is this same/similar with tunguska too?It's better, obviously, being a later design, but still quite bad, especially in terms of reliability and specs. That's what later was developed into Pantsir.
>>65365063This thing kicked ass in Operation Flashpoint.
>>65365063With modern sensors and ammunition it would probably be very effective against drones, the problem is that it doesn't have either.
>>65366327early attack helicopters who had to saclos anti tank missiles and so hovered staticly in place for 30 seconds whenever launching an anti tank missile. the american answer to this was the apache longbow and the hellfire missile. that combo can launch anti tank missiles with minimal exposure time to enemy AA guns.
>>65366638I would shoot myself in the head to get away from that noise
>>65366409>>65366436Wow, that's a lot different than how it works in War Thunder.
>>65367656War Thunder devs said that blowout panels not killing the entire crew was a bug, so take that as you will.
>>65367141So only marginally useful at best, and an outright hindrance and liability at worst.
>>65367724With how things are setup and in the conditions they exist? yes
>>65366623The funny part is they went on to sell or scrap most of their ZU-23-2s when they became "obsolete" to SPAAGs in soviet eyes
Expectation>cool modernized Soviet SPAAGsReality>air defense like it's WWI
>>65367656Let's just say that War Thunder likes to overhype Soviet and Russian vehicles a bit.And by that I mean they have made up bullshit stats to cover the fact that almost everything the Soviets made wasn't very good..
>>65367141You're not thinking Russian enough>you need 24 hours coverage, so at least three shifts, so 9 pidors>Someone needs to bring them to their gun and back when their shift starts/endsJust three men, they can camp where their gun is)))will wake up when drones come)))))>all of those pidors need to piss and shit somewherethey just dig hole)))))like at home in Sibir)))))They get food once per week, nice canned food)))))))))
>>65368299You forgot the best part>You say shifts are too long because of under-manning? Is of not worry cumrade, here in assult unit you shift will be very short!
>>65365176>>653664633: 2 O'CLOCK.3: ENEMY SOLDIER, 300.3: SOLDIER IS HISTORY.3: WOUNDED.
>>65366356>>65366409Now that’s kino.
>>65366436>>more than 200 rounds per minute overload the liquid cooling system200 rpm per barrel per minute or is it for all 4 barrels combined?
>>65371149Those numbers are per barrel.
>>65366597>To think that WW2 Germans had been able to put out double the maintainable fire rate at 100 rounds per barrel per minute without fancy cooling systems.Thats physically impossible. They had to use quick change barrels. There is good data on navweaps on how much water cooling improves the sustained and burst rate of russian 57 mm autocannons. Its basically either that or you have multiple spare barrels and crews trained to quick change barrels. I would like to point out that the bofors 57 mm that the USN is so fond of lacks water cooling unlike the oto melara 76 mm. It isnt going to be very useful in a running gun battle against anything. Its only envisoned use case back in the 80s was shooting at giga sized soviet SS-N-9s or SS-N-2s which would arrive in tiny numbers as the common russian missile boats could only carry 2 or 4.
>>65371167They were firing 4 2cm barrel guns that relied entired on air cooling. 100 per minute was the limit before overheating, they could go higher.
>>65368268This would piss me off a lot less if other nations vehicles weren't viciously gimped even when it's completely wrong, like the missing armor on the challenger 2s and merkavas
>>65371206NTA, it can be frustrating, but, I derive a sense of satisfaction every time I kill someone playing using a Russian vehicle that even with everything handed to them on a plate and them running on literal babby mode - I'm still more skilled than them
>>65365063The Ukes finished upgrading a few of them at the end of last year.https://militarnyi.com/en/news/come-back-alive-modernized-16-shilka-anti-aircraft-guns/
>>65365176Im fucking intrigued by the guy talking about commando missions, what game is this?
>>65372185Go away zoomie, come back when youre... older...
>>65372187I'm 30 you fucker, I just cant identify it by one photo of a ps1 era man shitting himself and ARMA style fill-the-blank speech generation!
>>65372195>ARMA styleAh, you are not completely uncultured. The game is OFP, the predecessor to ArmA.From 2001/2002.
>>65372255I forgot, due to some legalities about the name 'Operation Flashpoin', it's now on steam as 'ArmA: Cold War Crisis'
