I understand that customers are gay and stupid. They beg for a product, then never buy it when it's released. Then again, the manufacturers don't get anything right ever for no apparent fucking reason.People beg for the 551/553 for years. Sig brings it in, sets up american production... then sells it in a format that doesn't take swiss stocks, uses the wrong thread pitch for the barrel IIRC, has the wrong sights. Wrong wrong wrong, for no reason. Then complains that the product failed, cancels production, scraps the tooling instead of fucking selling it, and acts shocked.Then to pour salt on it, JDI imports 551/553 pistols for $5-7,000. So obviously people were willing to pay, they just didn't want to buy the gay version of the thing they wanted.Or take HK. They bring in the SP5 again after years of no sales. It has the wrong bolt, wrong carrier, wrong recoil spring (all F type), wrong lower. Fuck, it's got the wrong receiver with a welded plate in the way of the pin hole. Initially they didn't even come with a diopter rear sight FFS. Then ask for >$3,000 and are shocked when sales are poor.Meanwhile the same exact company sends their receiver blanks, barrel blanks, and so on to a factory in pakistan. Where they run their machinery, on their parts, and shit out and MP5 that says 'MP5' on the fucking receiver. 100% OEM, not a clone. The rough equivalent of an FN Hi Power vs a Browning Hi Power. The cost? $1,100 for a real MP5 with none of the problems of the real deal.Are these people truly so fucking stupid? You work in an industry by and for autists, then don't cater to them. Then act shocked when they don't buy your fuck ass shit.For 20 years we begged magpul to please for the love of fucking god sell the FMG 9. A glorified Glock kit. It's made of plastic. They shift the responsibility to Zevtech (which most people don't know of), and sell it for $1,700. It's a glock 19... how?I'm convinced there's one retarded nigger behind it all.
>>65366381This is every industry at this point. Just look at cars or all those "smart" appliances they try selling people.
>>65366381Some probably fuck it up on purpose. I'd put HK squarely in that category because apparently they fucking hate their civilian customers. There's also the issue of companies not just tiptoeing around the ATF, but going miles out of their way to avoid getting fucked over by the stroke of a pen.>See! It's not compatible with the select fire NFA restricted machine gun version!>It's also welded so you can't convert it!>It doesn't even have the markings for a second fire mode!>Please don't buy me a dog then shoot it.The purely comically inept ones absolutely exist but honestly I'd wager they're a minority.The thing that really grinds my gears as a customer is when I see an old firearm that was designed to be relatively cheap and easy to make with new production runs being sold for the deed to the family farm and your first born's hand in marriage. I get that you have to recoup the cost of setting up a new line, even temporarily, but you're not going to do that if nobody can afford the damn things.
>>65366381>People beg for the 551/553 for years. Sig brings it in, sets up american production... then sells it in a format that doesn't take swiss stocks, uses the wrong thread pitch for the barrel IIRC, has the wrong sights.My recollection is that the Sig USA rifles were aimed at SWAT. Obviously the 556 was, but I recall marketing for the 553 being very police-centric as well.>Meanwhile the same exact company sends their receiver blanks, barrel blanks, and so on to a factory in pakistan.Do they? POF are using old HK machinery, as do all third party G3/MP5 manufacturers, but its the first Ive heard of HK providing the materials.That aside, most of the shit HK does is due to germoid export restrictions. Something pakis wouldn't have to deal with because half their gun industry is run by the Taliban.>For 20 years we begged magpul to please for the love of fucking god sell the FMG 9. A glorified Glock kit. It's made of plastic. They shift the responsibility to Zevtech (which most people don't know of), and sell it for $1,700. It's a glock 19... how?Even a plastic item costs money to make (for example Games workshop always say that for their plastic molds to break even they have to make $200k off of them, and that's just little action figures in the softest resin possible) and for a meme item like a folding pistol kit, they obviously costed it with the expectation it wouldn't sell that many units. Plus Zev glock clones are over a grand, so that's already their price range.
>>65366381Most companies in every industry are run by managers who have no idea about the product they're making or the customers they're selling to. Unfortunately, they're the ones who get to make the decisions.
>>65366412>My recollection is that the Sig USA rifles were aimed at SWAT. Obviously the 556 was, but I recall marketing for the 553 being very police-centric as well.Right. Y tho? In the late 00s the stupid siggers couldn't figure out that a collectors item swiss ak isn't exactly SWAT material compared to a fucking $600 M&P-15 with LEO markings? The point still stands. What the fuck were they thinking?>Do they? POF are using old HK machinery, as do all third party G3/MP5 manufacturers, but its the first Ive heard of HK providing the materials.That aside, most of the shit HK does is due to germoid export restrictions. Something pakis wouldn't have to deal with because half their gun industry is run by the Taliban.Rhinemetall and HK rely on the military ordnance factory at POF to produce MP5s, G3s, and MG3s for the german government, police, and military now. POF is still under license with HK, new modern tooling, so on and so forth. You're confusing Khyber pass with a government arsenal. Similar to saying that springfield armory must've been a terrible manufacturer because bubbas in the region were sporterizing G98s lol>Even a plastic item costs money to make (for example Games workshop always say that for their plastic molds to break even they have to make $200k off of them, and that's just little action figures in the softest resin possible) and for a meme item like a folding pistol kit, they obviously costed it with the expectation it wouldn't sell that many units. Plus Zev glock clones are over a grand, so that's already their price range.Right, so again. Why zevtech? Magpul's entire business model is polymer. They are in with every gun shop in the US. They just needed to partner with brownells or PSA for cheap glock slides and parts kits, and throw it in their chassis. It'd be done for $900 I'd bet a testicle.
>>65366414This. Another thing to note is the fucking importers.For decades we've been told by them "No, we can't bring in this product. 922r compliance is just too difficult"Then companies like B&T just import whole ass battle rifles without stocks as pistols. Turns out if you actually read the ATF point system, the heavier the gun is, the more positive points it gets towards approval for import. I'm not even kidding.These importers for the past 30 someodd years simply needed to build the gun without a stock, ship the stocks separately and sell them separately, and we could've skipped all the debacles with tooling for 922r. We could've had true Saigas, Yugos would be more established, and so on and so forth.This was all readily apparent info decades ago. It was no mystery. It's that the people in the gun industry are clearly goyim slavecattle with lathes and CNC machines.
>>65366387The saddest thing about all this is that the gun industry is probably the least anti customer industry these days.
>>65366381I don't get anything about the current firearms market and it really seems like the prices are all made up. A straight blowback 9mm handgun is $200, but a straight blowback 9mm "pistol" is $1,000. People asked for a 3" LCR for years, and the one we got has a massive sight rib with adjustable sights that make no sense for the kind of gun that the LCR is. Somehow, the 90s handgun market was able to produce three or four complete action variations of the same gun from most major manufacturers, but now that police departments have grown and the private market is practically mainstream, the best they can do is a glock trigger with or without a manual safety. >>65366387>Ask for more manual transmissions>Company offers a manual on 1 trim package of only the hatchback version of one model of car.>Nobody buys it>It's discontinued>WELL NOBODY MAKES MANUALS ANYMORE BECAUSE NOBODY BUYS THEM!I'm so tired. Why does everything have to go to shit at the same time like this?
>>65368740Then the companies that just listen do extremely well. >Dead Air PBS-1 Wolverine is priced right, looks right, works well.>LMT sells you a better version of the SR-15 for half the price. Sells well.>PSA buys NDS & H&R, sells a whole run of M16A1 lowers that have the exact Vietnam era serial numbers and markings.>Zastava & WBP just do it right. Does wellIn the meantime everyone else is just getting it wrong. Acting shocked no one buys.>let's import the VHS-1, but instead of just calling it that we'll call it the 'Hellion' so it's cringey>import T91 uppers. But be sure to not include the rear sight, include the wrong front sight assembly, and also make the aluminum upper itself isn't the right color. This will really sell well with clone builders.>At surefire we specialize in making a flashlight handguard for MP5s that absolutely will not work with suppressors. Sure we developed a fix for this exact issue 30 years ago, but no. We won't sell you this $15 piece of aluminum for $150 extra to remedy the issue. Also, our warcomps are identical to B&T's while also being harder to install. Please buy our shit for no reason. The examples of incompetence are endless. Every time you want to get something and you can't just... Buy it. It's a proof of the problem. No it's got to be a project car style nightmare.
>>65366381The people that actually make those kinds of decisions are not the target audience or have contempt for the civilian market.
>>65366381Oh my god, who makes that VZ61 receiver where the stock has fucking insane verical play? Why the fuck is that a thing? Part of the reason I don't own one. IIRC someone also makes one with a pic rail ass. I want a fucking VZ that looks and acts like a fucking VZ. There's like one good choice (plus reweld). Also not my thread but semi related? >>65355020
>>65368740>Company offers a manual on 1 trim package of only the hatchback version of one model of car.This but CZ and the 457. You can have your threaded rifle...as long as it's taper barrel and in a plastic stock. Any replacement barrels are TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS and out of stock half the time. THEY SELL THE FUCKING THREADED AMERICAN MODEL IN EUROPE!!!!>NFA changes happen>hey guize here's this monstrosity, just under a grand ($800 MSRP, double a regular model)I HAVE NO WORDS. PS: I swear to god if you guys release what I actually want after I buy that shit ass polymer stock model...
>>65369538Before Tommy Bilt closed their doors HK told people on Insta to just buy a T36 if they weren't happy with an SL8. No wonder it didn't sell.I'm waiting for HK to realize they can just import the G36 as a pistol in the exact same way as their SP5. It even comes with a folding stock that you just don't include with it... Are they averse to making money?
>>65369050You forgot to mention that Springfield also actively refuses to sell any spare parts for the VHS so if yours breaks you are fucked. Thankfully the guns are really reliable so it’s not a big issue now but I imagine it will be in a couple years
Beretta owns both Sako and Tikka. They’d make so much money if they started importing RK62’s and Sako’s new AR15 at a reasonable price but all they do with both brands is sell hunting rifles
>>65366381>retarded middle men tell higher ups what they think will sellA tale as old as time. Until companies (and I genuinely mean all companies) get rid of these knuckle dragging wastes of salary then nothing will change. Typically companies with shareholders run a bit better but again if the decision makers get fed bad information then bad decisions will be made. >tldrKill all middle management and distribute the means of production to the workers and implement a more democratic way of making decisions.
>>65366381I think the funniest case of manufacturer retardation has to be IWI. For a people who are stereotypically obsessed with money, those Jews really hate making it. >We’re basically guaranteed a large customer base because the Desert eagle is in every movie and video game. Let’s end our contract with Magnum research and take those sales away! >Lots of people want a Jericho because of cowboy bebop? Great! We’ll discontinue the model they actually want and sell them an “enhanced” version with an extremely boxy polymer frame! >Hey let’s go all in on the Masada, Carmel, and Tavor shotgun even though literally no one wants any of those >The Z-15 beats every other budget AR in terms of features? Cool let’s not market them and only stock them in a few stores >The retro market has become really big lately and a lot of people want a classic Galil. We still have all of the tooling to make Galils because we’re cranking out the ACE. Should we cater to that market? Nahhhh>People want a rock and lock 5.56 Galil ACE? Let’s give them some! …in incredibly limited runs, and only as pistols. >People really like the unique look and military pedigree of the Gen 1 Galil ACE? Let’s do away with literally every feature that people like on the Gen 2 and make it look like every other tactical rifle on the market. Also, let’s remove the iron sights for no reason!
>>65369050>implying that H&R makes up for the sheer retardation of PSA showing off 50 projects at Shot show and only releasing one or two of them a year
>>65371360>Typically companies with shareholders run a bit betterRetarded commies will say this with a straight face
>>65366381>make one product>wini don't know why this is so hard for other companies to understand
>>65371792>repeating retard boomer rhetoricProve me wrong then nigger
>>65371855Imagine not offering your one product in carbine form.
>>65371855Similar thing with SteyrIf the AUG can be a successful product in the US. Nothing good has an excuse to fail.IE the SPAS-12 not being imported to/manufactured in the US since the 1989 import ban basically. But apparently the turks could figure it out for $900 and seemingly do a better job than Franchi.
Most annoying example of this I can think of is the new Benelli M4, they FINALLY release a fucking updated version for civilians with everything you could want BUT THEY DONT SELL IT IN FLAT BLACK YOU HAVE TO GET THE UGLY MULTICAM BLACK WHY WHY WHY I already would’ve bought one even for 2k dude
>>65366381>Are these people truly so fucking stupid?Well, yeah. To your point about HK:>HK SP5 is back>entirely because "muh rollmark" nigger rich behavior>at an absurd MSRP because >lolHK>civilian MP7 is now a reality and it costs exactly the same as the SP5, completely negating the purpose of owning a "real" HK MP5 instead of a turkroach cloneA lot of shit is only made now for people with ludicrous disposable income in a time where most people do not. It'll be like that for a while
>>65372719I made this post and then did more research and found out there are a few vendors that sell LE 11715 M4s to civilians. So now I’m out 2 grand. Thanks op you dick
>>65366387>all those "smart" appliances30yr old out of touch proto old man complains about a fad from ten years ago
>>65373031Maybe next time you should do research into a gun you want before you buy it
>>65366381>Are these people truly so fucking stupid?you wouldn't believe how highly some retarded suits value a bachelor's degree in marketing.
>>65373716Marketing Degree>doesn't understand the market they sell to>probably makes $150k to answer phone calls & emails all daybruh
>>65374097Pretty much>Zero experience>Internship with an ice cream distributor>I shot a gun once in boy scoutsSure let me tell you how to sell guns to Americans.
>>65371197>I'm waiting for HK to realize they can just import the G36 as a pistol in the exact same way as their SP5 They actually can’t because you aren’t supposed to fire the G36 with the stock folded, you’ll crack the receiver eventually. The SL8s don’t have this problem, as the receiver is open at the back and can take multiple lowers.
>>65373031If you want to spend $2 on a useless shotgun, that’s your prerogative, when you could’ve had the best clays semi or a good used double at the same price.
So don't keep it that way. The point is you get it in, and you sell the stocks separately. This just means they need to include a folding block to prevent damage while it's still considered a pistol.922r has only ever been charged against manufacturers, possession of a non compliant firearm is legal, so is transfer. It's assembly that's illegal, but putting a foreign made mag into a Zastava technically counts as assembling a non compliant model. Basically, no one gives a fuck and this law is unenforceable against normal people.Which is exactly why dozens of manufacturers have ceased giving a shit about 922r, and just import everything as a pistol, regardless of barrel length. HK should learn this lesson.
>>65374431Bullshit
>>65371360>good tsar bad boyars in the big 26 for fucking american gun companies of all thingsThere could be like 400 pounds more frogs on this planet and your fat retarded ass is still wasting all that perfectly good carbon and oxygen and water. Why haven't you put yourself back into the soil yet?
>Ruger no1 only available in awkward dentist game hunter calibers specific to one specific model of the yearly run >As consequence guns from 1993 are $9000 because they're in normal shit like .270 and .308 and they legitimately know what they got >Gun has low sales as justification but Ruger also refuses to open a custom shop and make them to order >Be sako >Have custom shop >Custom shop doesn't have half of production options because they want to only sell machine engraving >Economized product line into not making left-hand throw versions of $5000 rifles despite having action on hand >Stopped making half of the stock options and barrel options in general
>>65366756The guy that keepa dogging licensed H&K copies being built at state arsenals can not wrap his head around FMAP G3s, and Imbel being real FALs despite not being FN either. If it wasnt for the fact that they are competing directly with H&K for sales at 1/3 the price all these tards would be cumming themselves at the idea of getting an MP5 from an actual government arsenal.
>>65375336Amazing how any company can have a legacy product that's highly in demand, but that same company will ignore the hype. Or when they do finally do something, it's like 3-5 years too late for no reason.Reminds me of the yeet cannon
>>65375336They have a run in 6.5 sneedmor right now
>>65375566Nothing good gets praised in this hobby. Only the gay shit gets slobbered over.
>>65366767on that same note with yugos, they are importing them with bayonet lugs nowwe couldve always had bayonet lugs on them but they figured cutting off a bayonet lug was easier/more economical than paying someone to remove the handguard/stock
>>65372704i hate the turks but i do admire that they arent pricing things like absolute jews and at least listen to customerstheir shotguns are dogshit and that turkshit spas clone is sadly going to blow itself apart within 500 shells i bet but at least they are making something that looks cool & that people saying they want
>>65366381>What exactly makes...manufacturers so retarded?What's become abundantly clear over the years is that no executive knows what the fuck they're doing beyond self aggrandizement. The wonder is that anything salable gets produced at all.
>>65377991Here's a cool mag release that gives you all the practical speed of a button mag release while offering maximum protection against accidentally dropped mags. It takes a few hours of practice to get proficient with it, it's inherently ambidextrous, it costs nothing to use it over other magazine releases, and there are real world cases within the last 10 years to support it over the button.It's a great idea, but the paddle magazine release has only faded in popularity over the last decade. Meanwhile, manufacturers are focusing on features like optics mounting, barrel porting/compensators, and a few extra rounds in a mag that will absolutely never matter for the average Joe. Factory optics mounts are great and the barrel porting is a fun gimmick, but how the hell did these cut the line of priorities over the standardization of the best possible mag release design?
>>65378091I'll do you one better. Imagine selling a handgun and not partnering with a holster manufacturer. Give me the option to buy an OE holster that isn't poorly made and I will buy it, or better yet charge $30 more for the gun and ship it with the holster. Isn't the point that I'm supposed to use it?
I understand the feel >>65376207I guess I'll have to buy a Maxim stock. 416c looks cooler though.
>>65378091>Here's a cool mag release thatPinches the unholy hell out of my middle finger when i use it
>>65371197>Before Tommy Bilt closed their doors HK told people on Insta to just buy a T36 if they weren't happy with an SL8. No wonder it didn't sell.I think Tommy ended up being hired and selling his entire tooling to S5 tactical, didn't he?
>>65378141im surprised glock doesnt make a holster, its just plastic and they are basically the kings of 'making the same shit out of plastic every year'
>>65374431>They actually can’t because you aren’t supposed to fire the G36 with the stock folded, you’ll crack the receiver eventually.doubt.png
>>65371366them not making metal jerichos anymore makes me madas far as i could tell, it was basically treated as a very good pistol option, well priced, unique compared to a CZ in some ways and had its own lookthen they decided to just make it plastic and then go all in a their 'totally not a glock' masada and then price it the same as a glock so theres zero reason to get that over a glock
>>65378091There are about 5 people outside of Germany that care about paddle magazine releases.
>>65378254Remember when CZ sold a factory CZ75 with a threaded barrel, but it was only in cerakoted gray for some reason? They had SP-01 with a threaded barrel in black that was pretty rare, but broadly speaking if you wanted to fit a suppressor on your CZ75 you had to get it in some weird color.>why?
