IN - critically - IN OFFICIAL SERVICE, If you are a civilian and you have a gun that'll go into a flux chassis then i_guess.png but imagine you are in official service. But clearly I'm missing something! Because people buy the flux.Write down all the benefits you get from the flux raider: It's compact. Common ammunition type. Steady optics platform. Stocked. Et.c. As you go on, write all the benefits. Hell, include "ammo in pistol grip for blind reloading" and "extra magazine capacity up front." Every single niche benefit of the flux.Now take your list of benefits and hand them to an engineer. "Make me a gun that'll do all this, or better." Do you think he'd develop the Flux Raider? Because I sure don't think he'd develop the Flux Raider. He'd modernize a mini-UZI, maybe. Call up HK and tell them to send him an MP7 in 9mm. Or maybe, if you think it's important to have the pistol grip in the very rear of the weapon (like a pistol) he'd give you something that looks like the flux raider, except it's not a weird chassis system, it's a dedicated platform so it can be even more concealable when it doesn't need to use space for the chassis. Maybe he'd give it a fixed barrel so you can suppress it without using a Nielsen device. Hell, maybe he welds a collapsing stock on a Maxim 9 and calls it a day.But people buy the Flux. What the fuck am I missing.
>>65369543The point is that it's an excuse to procure a SIG gun
It just came along at a good time, where "pdws" were a massive instagram meme. Its also extremely cheap, relative to dedicated PCCs. If youre already issued a P320, converting it to a flux costs less than buying a stock glock.
So it's a "time and place" thing? You'd want something different if you had every option in the world, but you don't, so this is good enough?
>>65369543Didn't a lot of these types of chassis pistol come about due to weapon laws? Like I heard in Israel certain security guards could only get "pistols" but really needed carbines due to the security situation, so this sort of wonky legal workaround happened?
>>65369543Can you actually name anybody who uses a flux raider in official service? Because I don't think many places are using it. They're using the APC9 K, MP7, TMP, MP9, or Rattler.
>>65369543>IN - critically - IN OFFICIAL SERVICELess time wasted on training people on weapon systems they're extremely unlikely to ever use in anger or in legitimate self-defense. Transferable skills between the useless pistol and the submachine gun, which has a limited role.
Because for the cost of printing a polymer piece of shit frame it frees up infantry rifles for front line personnel. It's a quarter the size of a service rifle, twice the size of a handgun, so really this allows the US to press a PDW into service rapidly in the face of significant backlash to the idea of tokenistic armament.Materially it's an upgrade for the pistol but in logistical terms it's a downgrade from service rifles
>>65369719Question arose because I saw this shit: https://x.com/uncle_fury/status/2057358234957332513For all I know, that's an AI generated picture. But I also remember hearing 19th SF were testing it out some years back.
>>65369628>450-600 bucks>cheaper than a dedicated pcc>without an $800 pistol>minimum $1200 to playOr you could buy a Striborg, or Saint, or fuck even a PSA for half the price with a stack of mags and case of ammo.
>>65369543Especially something like the 365 raider is smaller and lighter than basically any other PCC. If you want something with a stock that you almost can carry IWB nothing else can do it.
>>65369801Uncle Sam gets the P320 for $200 a pistol.
>>65369762SF use their sidearms more often than others. Usually for stuff like moving while holding on to a VIP. A flux raider might be an attempt to get some more capability of a sidearm. However, the flux raider could also be a little too bulky for 1 handed use.
>>65369762there's a non 0 chance that it was privately acquired. they might be able to get away with that because it's still technically a government issue M17/M18.
>>65369810That includes the holster and spare magazines, too. It's why they won the contract; even at the time everyone knew the P320 was an unsafe piece of shit, but it was a quarter of the price of their competitors.
>>65369810>>65370148Thank God Glock was spared from having to supply those animals. Like pearls before swine.
>>65370150In the end, I don't think it was a bad call. After all, I'm pretty sure American service pistols have killed more Americans than foreign soldiers. If I were in charge, I'd have chosen the Sig but required it to be carried on an empty chamber.
>>65369543>But people buy the Flux. What the fuck am I missing.Honestly, are you retarded? The part you're missing is that those alternatives don't exist. HK WONT make an mp7 in 9mm. Uzi and macs both suck for other reasons and aren't worth modernizing. The TMP has a lot of serious issues as well. The raider is unironically the best thing in its size category and the 320 is already in inventory with the US which makes issuing them less of a hassle on the unit/armorer level too.It's far from perfect and you could definitely do better but it's still the best actually available option>T. Flux owner
>>65369543It's an imitation concealable SMG for people who can't legally carry one and/or want to dodge SBR registration, or other people like >>65369646mentioned who have "legal bullshit" or "want to save money and already have a billion P320s" as part of the engineering constraints.If you ignore the context it's used in, yeah, it won't make sense. Why did NATO standardize on 9mm? Not because it was the perfect round but because they had a ton of it left behind after WW2 and it would be cheaper and easier. Why do people commute to office jobs in the city in their truck instead of a more efficient commuter car? Because they bought a truck already.The point of the flux raider is to be a useful compromise for people in certain positions, or to be a larper who thinks those guys are way cool.
the flux is light, tiny, recoils nice, has a good trigger and has a longer barrel than most small PPCs due to the magwell grip. my 365 flux has a 6" barrel and weighs less and is shorter than most full-sized pistols. still not fun to CC tho, its like carrying a vhs tape.
>>65369543It was meant for people who want an upgraded pistol (which is reasonable), and then it was shilled/fanboyed by people who thought it was better than a PCC/SMG (it's not). Occasionally you'll meet a moron who swaers its more capable than a rifle.
>>65369543I bought it because it's fun to shoot. Since the platform is a p320, I'm sure no armed force wants to adopt it anymore. When the SF guys were testing it, they preferred to chop off the pic rail and mount the optic on the slide instead. By chopping off the rail, they got it to a more manageable size for a sidearm, and that's where it's niche was supposed to be.
>>65369623
>>65370218>Uzi and macs both suck for other reasons and aren't worth modernizing.Mac I agree with, every one I've touched has been decidedly uncomfortable, but not sure which part of the Uzi sucks so bad that it doesn't warrant updating.Especially a smaller form factor like the mini uzi or micro.
>>65370794>but not sure which part of the Uzi suckthe 12lb trigger? the open bolt?
>>65370825don't forget the weightalthough all these elements are what makes an FA uzi fun to shoot, I enjoy it significantly more than an MP5 for those reasons
>>65369762The US Army acquired something like 100 of them. Presumably available to people above your pay grade to do operations above your pay grade (mostly shooting taxpayer-funded ammo at the range)
>>65371078Oh nvm I didn't actually click the link, just went on the pic of an APC 9. They acquited the APC not the Flux memer
>>65370218>best available optioncopium detectedkeep seething faggot
Well when you have a demographic that has already proven itself to be retarded (by virtue of buying a P320) then they are ripe for further exploitation, and can in fact be convinced to spend $400 on a bit of plastic to slap their dogshit pistol into and make a gay approximation of a PCC/PDW.
>>65369759This. It is why Keltec guns are in military service at this very moment.
>>65370825Mini Uzis were available in both closed and open, but believe it or not, most minis produced were closed bolt guns, even mil export or license examples.Trigger pull can vary widely, but it's not like that's something impossible to address fairly easily.Also if you're googling it keep in mind that trigger pull weight between the open bolt and closed bolt guns are significantly different.>>65370965>weightMini Uzi is about the same weight as an mp5.I suggest comparing those two because they've got almost exactly the same barrel length.A full size Uzi is going to be a couple pounds heavier, but you'll also gain ~2.5" of barrel length, which would arguably make it more ballistically effective, if only by like 50-100fps.I own all three, mini, full, and mp5, unfortunately only semi for all. As a whole package the mp5 wins hands down, but there are aspects of the uzi that are definitely superior, like actually working on our repairing them, or even making spare parts myself if I can't buy them.There's seriously nothing in an Uzi that a hobbyist machinist couldn't make in their garage with a lathe and small milling machine.
>>65371579Personally I like the full size uzi over the full size MP5 because the heft weight and recoil make it feel like it has more umpf behind each trigger pull, a more fun range toy but otherwise yeah, the Mp5 wins in all categories, there's a reason those still get modernized to this day
