Let's debate why the J20 is so shitty?
>>65383483>Chinese engines>Chinese coatings>canards
>>65383483These posts are looking increasingly desperate.China must have a significant advantage already.
>banned from meg again, time for another slide thread to build up my self esteem
looks uglycan't be a good aircraft if it doesn't look goodthems the breaks
>>65383483I couldn't design a better plane myself.
Serious question, how do you know it's "shitty".It was never used for anyhing.That's like making a post about the B-21 being shit.
>>65383706Nobody knows, but I can tell you that it wasn't a J20 that crashed in San Diego earlier today.
>>65383483Cope slide thread? If we're being serious here, the J-20 is about the only in service aircraft that poses a serious threat in the pacific. Unlike the SU-57 or anything the russians have built chinks have come a long way and arguably have surpassed them. >500+ and counting>An actual stealth platform with S ducts, sawed tooth panels, and proper RAM coating using stolen F-35+22 technical data>Large internal payload and very powerful radar
>>65383872how many combat sorties has the J20 been on?
>>65383872Don't forget that the j20 designer was depersoned for "unknown reasons" as an anticorruption campaign is underway
>>65383883ZeroChina hasn't had the chance the chance to test their stealth fighters yet. Just like how the raptor keeps getting cucked out of any mission where its air to air performance would shine.
Can't crash that which you do not fly.
>>65383872It perfectly resembles the three stages of new ideas>at first the new idea is laughed at (canards)>next the idea is debated (at Boeing)>finally the idea is adopted (F-47)>but muh X-36Literally a discarded prototype that went nowhere
>>65383706Made in China.
>>65383907and thats the issue. people laugh at the US and our constant forever wars but they DO keep our claws sharp and our pilots seasoned, all that retardation off the coast of yemen last year was insanely good experience for our navy.
>why does it suckBehold the number of completely unnecessary radar reflectors. You want the fewest number of reflective surfaces possible, and those you have to have you want hidden in the “shadow” of unavoidable ones like the wings. The J-20 does not even try to do this. The canards would not be as objectionable if they were in the same alignment as the wings. Instead they are dihedral to the wing, meaning they are always an additional reflector even when not maneuvering. There are also another set of vertical tail surfaces on the bottom of the plane. The ideal is that you will have as few sets of reflective surfaces as possible. The wings are unavoidable so there will always be at least one. Properly aligned canards will hide in the radar shadow of the wings when not maneuvering, but become another disparate reflector when maneuvering. However the J-20 does not have them aligned to the wing. That means it has four sets of surfaces reflecting radar at all times. Other fifth generations have two sets constantly reflecting, with a third from the tail surfaces only when making large maneuvers. All tailless designs we have seen get this down to one surface reflecting constantly, with a second during maneuvers. Note that tiperons are just as reflective as canards when deflecting for maneuver.
>>65383872>stolen F-35+22 technical dataDidn't they pay for that?
>>65383883None, because China isn't a bloodthirsty monster that attacks other countries just on a whim.
>>65383956This.Nobody can keep up with the lectures learned from defeating Iran 35 times.
>>65384006TibetVietnamThe sovereign nation of TaiwanThe PhilippinesAll the waters in the SCS they don't legally own.
>>65384026IndiaThe USSR
>>65384028>>65384026Burma
>>65383483oh boy, which american jet crashed this time?
Full transparency. the gripen is a shitty plane and turk shit looks better than the chink planes.
>>65383483Have you ever bought a chink phone or driven a chink car? The quality of their products compared to the competition is subpar
>>65384284F-35 in San Diego.>>65383704
>>65383483Ability to carry bug missiles is valuable in itself. Other than that, I doubt the Chinese want this thing tangling with F-22s and F-35s. Also I will never find it appealing looking. Stick to J-10s and the J-50.
>>65383483>fighter jets built by Harbor Freightno changshit has actually been battle tested for 50 years. ships, aircraft, or soldiers. you can train with paper targets all day long but it's a lot different when bullets are coming at you. you can launch missiles at a stationary target like a video game but its very unsettling when those missiles and drones are coming at you.
>>65383483>we tried really hard to make a bigger newer F-22 but we have none of the deep apocryphal knowledge to actually do it>but, the endeavor did contribute to our knowledge base, and the jet is a good jet in its own rightt. China if they were honest, americans if they weren't shitposting
>lead designer disappeared for corruption>got detected by Indian radar frequently around the border>got detected by Taiwan radar when they flew in sea>mock up analysis shows it's far from stealthy>use shit engine because its actual engine is still "coming soon">black smoke during startupNeed I say more?
>>65384504>meanwhile in realityhttps://www.eurasiantimes.com/chinas-j-20-evades-thaad-reaches-tsushima/
>jeets news >they didn't care to post about us that meant they didn't detect us ror
>>65384541nice source
>>65384550>>65384551>be madthaad's radar is pretty dogshit, even a shahsneed blew a hole through one
Do you even know what thaad does low iq chink dog?
>>65384541eurasian times is a ccp tabloid
>>65384560It detects enemy aircraft by exploding
>>65383483Proof it's shitty?
>>65383998>You want the fewest number of reflective surfaces possible, and those you have to have you want hidden in the “shadow” of unavoidable ones like the wings.While shapening reduces the radar cross section considerably, the primary reduction is from radar absorbing materials. Radar absorbing materials are basically what black paint is in the optical spectra. Shaping helps a lot, f.ex the SR-71 reduced its radar cross section by 90% trough pure shaping, but RAM is capable of far more. The thing is that stealth planes have to be large because they need to carry all their weapons and fuel internally unless you want to develop and purchase stealth bombs, stealth missiles and stealth fuel tanks. This coincidentally also makes it easier for them the achieve supercruise, both from the increased size and the reduced drag from no external stores. F.ex the Concorde was so large that it could supercruise across the entire Atlantic at mach 2 and that was in the 1960s. The meta is shifting towards larger and larger aircraft because of this. What the F-47 really needs to be is a tailess flying wing with at least 4 F-119 engines.
>>65384504This.Broadly speaking, modern China can be well compared to the Soviets. Except with some actual meat behind the facade this time.A LOT of stuff, especially what the west sees, is curated Potemkin-esque material. It looks good, but on closer inspection you find that certain things are pretty rudimentary, others don't actually work, there's big blank places that no one talks about where failures could have happened if the records survived, there are censored rumors of 'tells' indicating flaws, and it can't actually do the things it wants to say it can so you'll never see it in action.Take the J-20, or some of their other media hits. Spalling bullets in training runs. Scared 8 year olds doing the same kung-fu kata at 1.25 speed, that policeman doing the Black Widow takedown on a guy.BUT, China does have good things going for it. It's a big country with a lot of competition, meaning you will inevitably get skilled craftsmen, and resources to work with. It has been able to RAPIDLY advance in QOL and development from 3rd-2nd, to 2nd-1st world country status. It's not populated entirely by drunks. It's THE major manufacturing place in the world, so it has industry capacity*. And of course, their politicians, while corrupt, have managed to remember they're actually politicians, and they're meant to play the game, instead of just take bribes, sit on their hands, and maybe fuck a ten year old.Moreover, even though it's not American-parity, they have numbers, tonnage, and decently new things, as well as a bunch of missiles.>This anon's prediction for the future.They'll probably also hit a 'Glasnost' wall, once the current party members get to old and replaced with new generations. And also where Chinese people start being exposed to global culture more and become less tolerant to the current Stalinist methods of government.They probably won't have a huge crash, because they've got more money and nationalist pride than russia, but it'll happen still.
>>65383998The tail as a whole was specifically designed to hide the engines, immensely reducing IR signatures. You can't possibly see them unless you're behind.Also canards can work if their roots are aligned with the wings to camouflage their radar returns, their trailing edges are properly chamfered and they're property RAM coated with high frequency materials. It's not like they add a lot to the aircraft's RCS anyways since they're fairly small.
Pic obligatoryReal talk though, it's probably at least satisfactory for China's needs, even a subpar stealth fighter is still well ahead of any 4th gen and poses a serious threat. China has these planes in mass now, it's a mature platform that's still getting upgrades. It's probably going to outnumber American 5th gen aircraft by a comfortable margin in the event of a Pacific war and it's a major threat to important support aircraft like tankers and AWACs that are going to be crucial for America in the event of a war.
>>65383932You think the Chinese invented canards?
>>65384595it's chinese
>>65385243If China ever has to field them in numbers they will lose more J-20s to mishaps than combat.
>>65384551Guys watching the radars:>What is this asshole doing? Do we just let him proceed?>Yeah, we're not at war, let them think our radars don't work. China:>Angry chimpanzee noises "we beat the American THAAD radar our existence is validated long live the eternal chinese emprah"
>>65383483I don't know if it's shitty but I have actually seen this thing in flight. It's ugly because it's so goddamn fat for no reason
>>65386407You've never seen it in flight stop larpingAlso it's fat because the airframe had to achieve ridiculous goals like being able to withstand mach 3 speeds (doesn't mean the aircraft can reach those speeds by itself, only that it doesn't rip apart maybe in a dive to defend against missiles) and ww2 bomber ranges, something in the ballpark of 3000km of range without external fuel tanks. The entire thing is a flying fuel tank which is why pictures of it refueling mid air are so rare.
>>65385215There is not a direct correlation between size and radar return on stealth aircraft. An increase in return that is in absolute terms small can very easily multiply actual radar returns by several times or more in multiple aspects. I mentioned canards and the need for alignment in my post. Sacrificing radar return for improvements in IR masking is in my mind a losing strategy, as we’ve seen very little to suggest it meaningfully degrades the effectiveness of IR guided weapons inside their engagement envelope, while IRST would still be able to pick up the plume. It would also seem the Chinese themselves don’t seem to think the arrangement of the tail on the J-20 was all that great, as every stealth fighter they have built since has moved away from that tail arrangement.
>>65386557Depends on the radar band being used. Depending on the wavelength, size could be an advantage, disadvantage, or a wash.
>>65385109RAM is the supplement, shaping is still king. If RAM were enough on its own we wouldn’t be moving towards tailless airframes wherever possible, as they have numerous inherent compromises that are difficult and expensive to work around. I don’t know what anything you said after that had to do with anything o said, but a large part of it is pretty retarded and not workable for a variety of reasons.
>>65386712The very first thing I said in that post is that there is no direct correlation between size and radar return on a stealth platform. I’m well aware of the different interactions depending on wavelength vs object size. What you change to lower returns in one band will have consequences in others.
>>65386752In the cases where size is a disadvantage, the correlation becomes direct.
>>65386776You can say it has a direct effect in certain radar bands, but you cannot say a larger or smaller construction will have a guaranteed direct effect on overall radar return because of the number of different frequencies used by different radars.
>>65386813Agreed, I just wanted to add a little nuance, I should have explained more in the first post.
>>65386821Fair enough
>>65386495It's been in multiple airshows by this point, I saw it in China in 2018
>>65383483It's a knockoff of a 90s 5th gen fighter made with spotty knowledge of the original. Really should be expected, you don't just one up the guy whose homework you have to copy, especially if you can't even see the whole thing and have to guess and make shit up to cover the blind spots. It's impressive in itself that they got that far considering the circumstances, but it was always going to be an inferior product. One nice feature though is that it's huge so the internal missile space is also huge and the Chinese have good missiles.
>>65385243They probably have 500 at most, meanwhile there's at least 1300 F-35s across NATO.
>>65383536yes, a decisive advantage over the browns, which OP probably is
>>65387704F-35 is inferior in range, supersonic performance and AA missiles.F-22 can compete in speed, but probably is inferior in supersonic range too, a d US has only 200 and they out of production.
>>65385109Size does help, but Concorde's engines were designed specifically for supercruise and performed like shit in every other flight regime. It burned 2 tons of fuel just taxiing to the runway, and if for some reason it couldn't achieve at least mach 1.85 during cruise, it would run out of fuel before reaching the destination because of how inefficient the engines were at this regime. For fighter jets, you need high efficiency at subsonic speeds first and foremost, that's where you spend most of the flight.
>>65386724>I don’t know what anything you said after that had to do with anything o said, but a large part of it is pretty retarded and not workable for a variety of reasons.Its basic physics, you midwit. Larger aircrafts have inherent advantages over smaller aircrafts when it comes to practical stealth (no externals), range and speed. You can see the effiency of RAM materials in the use of tires on parked aircraft wings as improvised RAM by the russians, these work as radar absorbers breaking up the radar image taken by earth imaging synthetic aperture satellite radars. Its surprisingly effective despite being a crude improvised solution.
>>65387704>They probably have 500 at most, meanwhile there's at least 1300 F-35s across NATO.Per RUSI they are expected to have 1000 J-20s by 2030, and they will be equipped with the WS-15, enabling mach 1.8 supercruise. I expect the chinks to stop producing J-16 and J-15 within two-three years as they will have J-20 and J-35 in mass production. There is no point in purchasing radar visible jets when you can make stealth jets and dont have to pay the stealth tax. They have already stopped producing the J-10 for PLAAF. China still has tons of units using old gen 4 and 4.5 jets so they have quite a bit to go before having an all stealth air force.
I like how chinkshills keep coming back to this thread to seethe J-20 is a flying turd and there's no amount of seething can change that
>>65388532Why?
