>>65417816
>islamic golden age at the time
Fucking goats is a golden age?

>>65417832
the first recorded golden age of furfags

>>65417816
They were really good at kiting

Chinese and arabs are shit at war, always have been, always will be.

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>>65417816
Ok, let me introduce you to the subject matter of "hitting them when they are down".

One of the best examples of this was the short-lived period of "Swedish Baltic Sea Superpower". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Empire

In short, a lot of the OTHER, surrounding nations had spend decades in pointless, wasteful wars, while sweden had actually managed to stay out of such wars, had managed to modernize their armies, economy, education system and basically create an effective state management that relied on highly educated, well trained professionals. While everyone else around them was chock full of LITERALLY INBRED royalty, poorly managed statecraft, militaries run by hereditary nobility whose sole accomplisment was "being born to be my dad's son" and NOBODY cared how much this all cost, or how things like "logistics" worked. (I am not joking, European history is full of times when the court nobility ran to like a countryside palace to play masquerade games while the rest of the nation starved. These are things that happened.)

So the reason why The Swedish Empire happened was that they had actually managed to create a FUNCTIONAL STATE while pretty much all the rest of the Europe was having... whatever is happening in nepotistic-driven, self-serving and thoroughly corrupted American politics right now. In that situation, the ONE country that actually CAN get shit done, can basicly steam-roll everyone else.

There is even a famous quote from a swedish state councillor Axel Oxenstierna, who was too old to attend to some European peace conference, so he had to send his teenager son instead. And while the boy was kinda nerveous as he would be speaking to all these old nobles of the Europe... the dad just told him "My son, if you only knew with how little intelligence this world is governed with!". And when that guy went to those European courts full of old senile, self-centered nobility, he managed to negotiate some AMAZING diplomatic treaties.

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>>65417959
(continuation)

So whenever you hear this story of "Suddenly a new empire sprung out of nowhere" ...it's most likely one of these cases. One nation had it's shit together, while pretty much everyone else around it had been wasting their manpower and resources on futile wars for generations.

So the one faction that actually CAN get shit done suddenly finds out that everyone else around it is shit-fucked and can't do anything. So it's empire-building time, baby!

Like, why do you think that American Empire happened? Answer: because the Europe had been using literal centuries pummeling each other and now everyone else was worn and tired and couldn't really do anything, if America started to throw it's weight around.

It's not about "american exceptionalism" or somesuch. It never is. Do you think that all those european empires never thought that "oh, we are just smarter and better and our system is greater, so of course we win this game!" of course they did!

But just like with the swedish empire, it was often a case of "Everyone else have been fighting for so long that they are tired, while OUR military is modern, economy good and our statecraft on highly effective level. So it's empire-building time, baby!"

>>65417956
Their only strength is that they're both willing to fight incredibly poorly indefinitely, no matter the cost.
We still haven't figured out an actual strategy for foes that are completely irrational, hence the forever wars

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>>65417959
>sees Swedish Empire
>a feeling of warmth overcomes me
Mein neger

>>65417816
Force concentration. It takes a long time to rally troops back then so they could just swoop in while a city/nation hadn't raised the peasantry and sack the capitol. Then they killed all the adult males so no risk of revolt.

>>65417985
So basicly what made the united states the only and oldest Superpower today?
Good posts. Thank you.

>>65417816
Horse archers are OP as shit

>>65418027
>Doesn't even use the map showing their peak
Smh

>>65418644
It was the one available and I'm not gonna make one, myself and everyone else would be upset by my handiwork

>>65417959
>>65417985
>mongols
>effective bureaucracy
>educated, well trained professionals
>modernized army

>Jin/Persia
>poorly managed statecraft
>militaries run by hereditary mobility
>logistics issues within their own boarder compared to the expeditionary mongol force

Just say you wanted to talk about sweden. It's ok to be gay.

>>65418019
Eh? Just punch them whenever it needs be, they are like rubish, you just periodically pick it out and don't think much about it.

>>65417959
>Swedish_Empire
>>65418027
They should have ruled the world like the elves they are. Beautiful, yet mysterious people!

>>65418899
I feel it was written in plain English, what part did you find difficult?

>>65418778
>boarder
It’s “border”, you ESL cretinous imbecile

>>65417816
>Georgia
Anon. Come on now, lmao
>especially persia since they were experiencing an islamic golden age
The native Persian martial caste was eradicated, quite simply. By the time the Mongols arrived they no longer existed. What wasn't destroyed by the Arabs, was usurped by the Turks. Most of the "Persia" the Mongols conquered was Turkic owned territory. And the Mongols were just meaner, better organized Turks, so it was no big deal to defeat them.

>>65418019
We actually have the ability to kill them all, but not the will to do it.

That's why wars like this didn't exist in history; War was fought for the express purpose of taking over another territory.
>hahaha try to do that when we wage a guerilla war blending into the population!
The population of adult males was executed aside from skilled craftsmen who are shipped off to the capital after being castrated to serve as slaves until they die. The women are raped until they die. The children are either sold, or adopted and raised to believe they are your own people. No more guerilla resistance.

>>65417816
>Persia of antiquity conquers everyone
>Islamized Persia experiencing a "Golden Age" loses to a few steppe barbarians
I think you answered your own question OP.

>>65417816
Dude, I have a bachelors in history, and i want to tell you that history is biased, these historians were paid and bribed by the kings and queens.

>>65417985
>Like, why do you think that American Empire happened?
I think having no historical burdens, two oceans separating us from the Great Powers, in essence free land and natural resources, and weak sparsely-populated allies all around us also had something to do with it.
Don't you think the Euros would have, at one time or another, simply LOVED to have a new Constitution, built in a vacuum without being watered down or distorted by the many intransigent stakeholders? Well, they couldn't, because what about what Group A said or did 800 years ago to Group B? And Group C will NEVER allow Group A or B to become the dominant power. And sorry, what about the Royal family and nobles steeped in ancient tradition and custom that are completely opposed to anything newer than 250 years ago, do nothing except hoard wealth, and are never wrong because if they weren't chosen by God Himself then how did they get all this money, land, and titles, hmmm? Have you even thought about all this context? No, fuck it, not only will there be no Constitution, but we'll be revoking some hard-won, weak reforms that would improve every single person's economic output AND alleviate their suffering, BUT would very, very, VERY minorly inconvenience Viscount Inbredson Hapsjaw the Twelfth, Lord of some rural shithole with more plague outbreaks than people.

...yeah its great to have a fresh start from that sort of thing while being geographically-blessed from having to deal with invaders on all sides and having a nearly-homogeneous ruling class. Throw in a Protestant work ethic and Enlightenment ideals and you're cruising to superpower status in less than 2 centuries (if you can avoid fragmenting into smaller weak states).

>>65419988
Are you implying that the Mongols didn't buckbreak virtually all of Asia excepting parts of India, Vietnam, Egypt, and Japan? I'm pretty sure all those things happened, and that their conquests weren't all ultraweak, past-their-prime declining Empires. Some of them, like the Song, were quite strong (at least at first).

>>65420031
Bro, I don't believe in history even though i have a bachelors in history. I also doubt the existence of genghis khan.

>>65417816
United horse nomads are OP. Note: not horse archers - horse nomads. Well, part of that is how the Mongols were a new power with an iron grip on power and none of the accruments of an old nation eghing them down but
>Strategic mobility, can move quickly, create surprise and force local superiority.
>Tactical mobility, can easily do flank attacks and just leave the battlefield if they think they can't win.
>Noticeably superior mobility-related tactical and operational skills - pincer movements, coordination etc.
>Simple logistics.
>Might as well be a professional army, since they can fight full time, forever. Feudal Europe wishes they could economically sustain that level of commitment.
>Can invade during harvesting season, even a simple raid will weaken the enemy, and you can't do the same back because...
>Can't be forced to fight, can just flee into featureless endless steppe.
>If they flee it can be a trap because they have the rare discipline required to casually do a feigned retreat.
>Very pragmatic, had no pressure to force a fight, their civilized counterparts were often forced into battles they didn't want to fight because they didn't want to look weak in front of their vassals.
>Man for man better than other armies. Mongols almost always were outnumbered yet still won.

Of note is that time the Hungarians defeated the Golden Horde, the Golden Horde did none of the above.

>>65417816
The Mongol Empire, especially by the time of Kublai Khan (Chingiz' grandson), was the prototype of what would become the modern, post-Westphalian nation-state.
>mobility warfare of the highest order
>mandatory education for boys and girls
>postal system
>courts where any citizen could be heard
>also, drag Chinese siege engineers across the steppes to destroy Persian and Russian cities

>>65420361
Interesting post

>>65420121
>Bro, I don't believe in history even though i have a bachelors in history
Modern college education everyone

if this thread is anything like /a/ threads, it's just to about about her ass and how tight it is for her age. had hoped it wouldn't migrate here.

>>65424261
Are you trying to steer the conversation that way? Because no one was talking about it before you giving ideas

>>65424266
no. i've just given up even trying to discuss the show on /a/. last thread was alright actually but i doubt it'll last. but nobody starts a thread to actually discuss mongolian weapons and tactics with a picture from an anime.

>>65417816
hors big fast many

>>65424306
Note that one of their favorite techniques was for masses of horsemen to trample the enemy city's fields. It takes years to plow a field to good productivity using oxen, having over 9000 ponies run through it really sets that field back.
Being comfortable eating nothing but meat, cultured milk and sometimes just a little of your pony's blood is a tremendous advantage. There's a quote somewhere about how the Mongols looked down on weak Chinese peasant soldiers eating grain and vegetables while not even needing fires, or even making camp at all.

>>65419361
>Persia of antiquity conquers everyone
They never made it further than Greece and Egypt in the west, and never further than Pakistan in the east. They hardly conquered "everyone." In turn they got conquered by the Macedonians.
>loses to a few steppe barbarians
Persia was formed by steppe barbarians in the first place. All Iranic peoples everywhere in the world came from the steppe originally. Plenty of them still live in the steppe. They clashed with steppe people for their entire existence; Cyrus was killed by steppe people. Darius won an extremely Pyrrhic victory against them, if written sources are to be believed. More likely they just utterly lost. After the Achaemenid Empire fell to Alexander, it was another group of Iranic steppe people that formed the next 'Persian' Empire.

Pretending steppe barbarians are some insignificant thing is frankly retarded; that's what the Iranians were in the first place.

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Because muds.

>>65417959
>in nepotistic-driven, self-serving and thoroughly corrupted
Enough about Swedish politics already.
>amErIcAn pOliTicS aRE cOrUpT
Reddit leave.

>>65419264
Yeah because there was no guerilla wars before the 20th century.

>>65419264
This is the American mind at work. It’s either we fight in the most evil and psychotic way humanely possible and take over a smoking wasteland or we just lose- those are the two options literally nothing else. No middle ground, no conception of fighting smarter or better or making some accomodation and understanding of the enemy or that Washington is actually fairly corrupt.

I suspect most likely it is just teenage edginess and this anon would start crying if he saw war crimes but it masks something else- tacit understanding they America for all her might is actually not very good at warfare. Unless the enemy themselves are equally foolish and voluntarily engage in a form of warfare they will lose

>>65426795
This is the faggot mind at work. He has no answer, but he wants to whine about America.
>>65426761
There was, see the Paraguay war. Nearly the entire male population was killed because they wouldn't stop fighting after defeat.

Yes, in ancient times there really was no such thing as guerilla war. If you refused to surrender after defeat, you could fully expect to be utterly erased. Under those conditions, guerilla warfare as we know it today is not viable. The concept of harassing a militarily superior foe while they coddle your civilians simply would be impossible.

>>65417816
>golden age
the issue is with that phrase, when you hear it so many people get this vidya game image in their head of a massive buff to all fronts of an empire or nation. in reality, it usually refers to a situation in which domestic policies and activities are surging and growing things like academia, sciences, and economics. these things CAN downstream ensure massive military and political advantages, but it does NOT beget them inherently.

the islamic golden age was a wonderful time to be a scholar, a scribe, a mathematician. if you were in the ruling body though, it was a great time to get yourself rich, embezzle funds, take bribes, and coast by on sheer size and weight of your military. the mongols military and tactics were perfectly suited to dismantle a weighty, slow military, with lots of hubris. actually a lot of the militaries they beat were weighty, slow, and with a lot of hubris. actually that applies to a lot of the militaries they beat, but conquering most of china gave them the basic framework they ended up implementing all over, which left enough power structures in place to keep things stable, provided a unified set of rules for trade, and also provided a surprising amount of economic freedom to go with it which often meant that the tithes they took were surplus that wasn't possible before their conquest. it also meant the empire itself as a unified body was relatively short lived, but still it was quite the feat for the time.

>>65426795
>amer-
British actually. The British put down MANY insurgencies through absolute brutality.

>>65426813
Nah theres been tons

>>65427084
name

>>65427110
Steven

>>65427116
Steven, you're a homoqueer.

In the case of Iraq, the king expected God to save him and for the rest of the muslims to come help him.

>>65417959
Sweden started it's empire run with polish troops on it's soil and a civil war.

>>65417816
>"Persia" wank
God. The propaganda fucking FLOWS right now.

>>65427618
The /a/ threads are literally full of browns as well.

>>65417816
horses

>>65418510
This is really the only answer. From the point when horses were domesticated until like the 14th century, the horse archer as done by nomadic pastoralists was simply the biggest piece of cheese in the whole world. The only thing that ever slowed them down was smaller populations than settled societies and how annoying sieges were. The mongols got around those two things with Chinese slaves. So. Bam, huge empire. The secret to beating the horse archer spam is a weird one found in the siege weapon tree. You gotta level your schizo Chinese alchemists and your European metal autists. Then you can branch into ‘musketry.’

>>65430584
That's kinda true and kinda not. The Romans dominated numerous steppe peoples, as did the Germanic tribes. The Eastern Germanic tribes (Goths, Vandals, Burgundians and more) came from Sweden and broke into Scythian territory. The Scythians were steppe nomads who held land clear from Germany to China at their greatest extent (not as a unified empire, but as vast numbers of separate tribes with similar culture and the same language). These Germans appear to have dominated the Scythians; they all took large amounts of territory, and the Vandals even claimed kingdom over the Alans, one of the Scythian tribes.

Likewise Alexander was able to handily beat the Scythians. The Persians went toe to toe with them constantly, and held their own or came out on top. The later Greek peoples after Alexander's conquests also traded blows with them relatively equally; Bosporus came to hold kingship over large amounts of Scythians. (although to be fair, the Seleucids lost their empire to the Parthians, who were yet another Scythian group that then formed the second Persian Empire.)

The Romans only real problem with steppe nomads came from the Huns under Attila; after him, you don't hear about it again. (And those same Eastern Germanics, if you want to count them as steppe people-arguably they were.)

The reality is settled people utterly annihilated steppe nomads routinely, and even had their own horse archers. However, on the rare occasions that large numbers of steppe people formed a unified tribal coalition and acted in unison, it became unmanageable. That also goes for non-steppe tribal people as well (see the Franks/Western Germanics)

>>65426795
It's how the Mongols and Tamerlane did it, though
Everyone else failed at conquering Afghanistan while they succeeded by stacking skull towers and genociding like 30% of the population, so if that's the only method that ever worked, it's clearly the only good one

>>65417956

/thread

>>65430683
“Dominance” is too strong a word. In the Roman days the steppe nomads got a lot closer to Rome than Rome ever got to the heartland of the steppe. The main reason for mongol dominance was that it was easier for steppe nomads to figure out how to destroy cities than it was for settled people to figure out how to invade the steppe. It was a strategic problem not a tactical one

>>65424270
You could have scrolled for 5 seconds and found out for yourself, could have avoided the autistic act that's basically just opening a door to a room of random people, shouting something irrelevant, then shutting the door.

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>>65430683
>That's kinda true and kinda not. The Romans dominated numerous steppe peoples, as did the Germanic tribes. The Eastern Germanic tribes (Goths, Vandals, Burgundians and more) came from Sweden and broke into Scythian territory. The Scythians were steppe nomads who held land clear from Germany to China at their greatest extent (not as a unified empire, but as vast numbers of separate tribes with similar culture and the same language). These Germans appear to have dominated the Scythians; they all took large amounts of territory, and the Vandals even claimed kingdom over the Alans, one of the Scythian tribes.
The Goths basically become a steppe pastoralist culture by the time they crossed into Rome and had considerable skill as cavalrymen and with seminomadic logistics

Nobody starts out as a steppe nomad. The Huns, the Magyars, Goths, Comanche, Sioux, Turks etc all started out as peripheral tribes forced to migrate onto the steppe where they picked up nomadic or seminomadic pastoralism. It's one of the interesting repeating stories of history where some marginal hunter gatherer tribe gets pushed into the steppe, takes like a duck to water and utterly BTFO everyone surrounding them

>>65417816
The Cavalry Archer meta is insanely strong but requires a harsh and demanding lifestyle of riding and shooting all the time from childhood, which steppe cultures tended to lose after conquering a nice soft province.

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>>65430584
it's not until you get the gatling gun that the last horse-archer dominated regions like central asia and the great plains finally get domesticated. swarms of horse archers are OP even against western musket armed line infantry for the reasons highlighted in >>65420361

>>65417959
>Eurotard cannot resist seething about the US for ONE POST
How is firing the DEI from the military NOT meritocracy? It's the exact thing you're complaining about only instead of "born to be the count's son" it's "born to an unknown dad and a mom named Tyrandiqua".

>>65434343
Swedes are boss-level cucked and broken

>>65417959
>>65417985
Shut the fuck up, redditor.
>>65418027
And now they are the biggest cucks in the world, after the British.

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>>65430584
>>65434341
Horse archers floundered against anyone who could figure out good arrow defenses. Europeans while not being that good at maneuver warfare were really good at sitting in one place and shooting you to death. The moment the flintlock musket and better cannons came around it was legitimately over for horse archers as line infantry began to threaten horse archers before they could get in range.

>>65419186
Do you have a meaningful point?

>>65434358
Fair point actually.

>>65434341
>swarms of horse archers are OP even against western musket armed line infantry
Absolutely delusional. Europeans quickly adapted to nomad tactics and defeated them again and again even before the era of firearms. After guns become a thing, nomads were utterly fucked. From diaries of Napoleonic soldiers you can read about how one-sided such encounters were.

>>65418920
>They should have ruled the world like the elves they are
They're fairies now. Most pathetic examples the white race can currently produce, though the swedes are seeing to it that they don't have much longer to exist.

>>65434296
>“Dominance” is too strong a word.
I'd say you're pretty dominated when you're sending massive amounts of cavalry to serve Rome's armies as tribute.

>>65418510
All the Easterners the Mongols first conquered also had horse archers.

The Mongols won because they had much better generals and much more intelligent and independent troops who could adapt to situations as they developed instead of a purely top-down structure that relied on troops moving in massive formations directed by banners, drums, and trumpets and would shatter if anything happened the battle plan hadn't accounted for.

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>>65417956
>arabs are shit at war, always have been
Lies and slander.
>Durka. Durka. This is Shishkebab. Zionist Phantoms are pounding my mechanized troops with napalm, where in the Prophet are your Kubs?
>Negative Shishkebab, they're tied down defending my uncle's mess battalion.
>WTF DO YOU MEAN DURKA, THEY WERE ATTACKED BY A SINGLE ALOUETTE!
>FUCK YOU, YOU ARE NOT FROM MY TRIBE! YOU WANT ME TO ABANDON MY UNCLE FOR SOME DOGS LIKE YOU? I DECLARE BLOOD FEUD ON YOUR TRIBE, SHISHKEBAB!
>Durka...
>Your tribe owes me twenty goats for this insult. Durka out.

>>65417956
>arabs are shit at war
Does that mean American are worse? I mean they are unable to defeat them.

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>>65436431
>"does gosh darn freedom-hatin eyeraynian ayrabs"

>>65417985
Goddamn she looks like a bitch. I'm hard. I love fucking hate filled tits displays. LORD give me a miserable cunt.

>>65436431
But Iran is losing and can't ship the thing their entire economy is based on. Also blaming jinns because their only semi-competent leaders are now compost.

>>65417985
>It's not about "american exceptionalism" or somesuch. It never is.
Peak Eurocuck cope.

>>65436975
the funny part is him claiming swedish exceptionalism on the basis of a empire that the swedes had lost before Napoleon was born

>>65436995
It also didn't last for very long. At least a couple of decent Sabaton songs came from it but trying to shit on the US as a Swede is peak Dunning-Kruger.

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>>65420019
> Don't you think the Euros would have, at one time or another, simply LOVED to have a new Constitution, built in a vacuum without being watered down or distorted by the many intransigent stakeholders? Well, they couldn't, because what about what Group A said or did 800 years ago to Group B? And Group C will NEVER allow Group A or B to become the dominant power. And sorry, what about the Royal family and nobles steeped in ancient tradition and custom that are completely opposed to anything newer than 250 years ago, do nothing except hoard wealth, and are never wrong because if they weren't chosen by God Himself then how did they get all this money, land, and titles, hmmm? Have you even thought about all this context? No, fuck it, not only will there be no Constitution, but we'll be revoking some hard-won, weak reforms that would improve every single person's economic output AND alleviate their suffering, BUT would very, very, VERY minorly inconvenience Viscount Inbredson Hapsjaw the Twelfth, Lord of some rural shithole with more plague outbreaks than people.

There was a way this was solved for a time

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>>65437105
You mean autocracy by a small group of administrators "in the name of the workers"? Make like your friends and go to foreversleep.

>>65437154
Bodied that freak.

>>65437154
absolutely curbstomped that communigga

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>>65437154
>this propagandized idea of the people’s democracy
Enjoy wage slavery lol

>>65437154
Post the one where some antifa whore says she'll collect a hundred Nazi scalps and then gets bodied in one punch by some Christchud pastor.

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>>65417816
Ibn Khaldun wrote a book that answers your question. Ironically, the book was just a forward to his actual life's work. Worth reading if you're into sociology.

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>>65437188
>W-we aren't scared
I'll take having a job I can quit over being herded into a workspace at gunpoint or sent off to one of Stalin's retarded farming projects that ended in cannibalism. Make like your friends and die, tankie.

>>65437189
Anonymous delivers.

>>65437188
Enjoy slavery without the wages lol; you know, actual, literal slavery.

>>65417816
The Islamic golden age was during the first decades when they were taking over kingdoms in Europe and asia as if by miracle, God was with them.
Calling the the days of abundance and "Muslim" philosophers the Islamic golden age is an orientalist lie, it was one of the worst times. Still, the muslims were the first to give mongols their decisive defeat. After that the Turks took over just like they had done before the mongol invasions. The main difference is Turks weren't le brutal murderers, they actually managed to hold those lands. And of course they're Muslim so that makes some people seethe. Speed and deception.

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>>65437257
Again, your understanding is propaganda

>>65437307
Workers in the Stalinist era USSR received fixed wages in accordance with the 5 year plan and almost every year of his governance the price of goods dropped in the most unprecedented negative inflation in history. No other type of economy could have survived this, only socialism.

>>65437325
>Don't take on risks and navigate business adventures like a man. Complain about better standards like a woman instead!
Get yourself a better daddy figure bro. Business owners provide job opportunities, payed workers spend money and start families, a net win for society even if some restrictions are needed.

>>65437325
>Stalin dindu nuffin muffin
You're posting ideological ramblings, we're talking about actual, verified historical events and how communism inevitably breaks down. And yet you think we're the ones repeating propaganda?

Debunk this: https://youtube.com/watch?v=BaDZsPfr-qM&pp

>>65437377
>Price mattering
>Under communism
Mass starvation and bread lines say otherwise.

>>65437386
The communists ended the centuries long famine cycle that plagued Eastern Europe for good and there was never another famine after the 40s until collapse.

Bread lines also became far more common during perestroika because of competition with private enterprises for goods and infact were unheard of from the end of ww2 until the early 60s

>>65437380
>he thinks his mom and pop shop stands a chance against the massive financial monopolies which rule the world
Lol.
Lmao even.

>>65437389
>centuries long famine cycle that plagued Eastern Europe
not Eastern Europe annon, the russian empire
bye the time the Eastern Europe had experienced it's last famine with the end of WWI the former russian empire still had nearly half a dozen commy famines waiting for them

>>65417816
They knew something that is apparently lost knowledge to modern generals: an army marches on its stomach, and if you cut off its ability to eat it becomes far less able to retaliate, be it armed with sticks and stones or ballistic missiles.

>>65437389
>We started starving more when we couldn't rob the outlying provinces for food and starve them
This is the most quintessentially zigger post in existence.

>>65437391
Clearly they so since they're all over here in the US.

>>65437391
Their leverage comes from their importance for the economy.

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Do people seriously expect historical and economic, let alone military, knowledge from communists? The most uneducated and gullible people in the world? The ones who constantly, confidently try to walk into machine gun fire or fight Big Cletus because they think quoting Mao or Lenin will protect them?

>>65437403
>last famine with the end of ww1
Lmao, nice troll, that’s when the Russian empire ended

>>65437377
>No other type of economy could have survived this, only socialism.
Literally happened many times before whenever a government made large works programs and the USA did similar things to better effect.
>>65437389
>Completely ignores the volga famine, holodomor and famines of 1946-1947
Zigger confirmed.

>>65437325
Did Stalin consider the plight of the workers he killed when robbing them?

>>65437413
They live on borrowed time and in the shadow of giants.
>>65437414
They’re insignificant and get ruined first whenever a major crisis hits. New markets get monopolized faster than older ones because of existing accumulated capital. Look how few tech small companies there are compared to hardware stores. Small producers and petit bourgeois continue to exist but in a smaller and smaller way all the time and increasingly ruined. This was predicted over a century ago via Marxist political economy

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>>65417816
>Have shit loads of horses and the logistical experiance with moving them around enmass seasonally
>Shit loads of organized horsemen are *very* translatable to military applications in ancient warfare
In that context it's not very surprising that when Horse Nomads really got their shit together every now and again this caused huge problems even for big landed empires. At a very basic tactical level a rando horse nomad with a horse and a bow is a lot more tactically useful than some peasant farmer with a spear.

This really only gets upended when you start seeing the mass use of firearms become an essential part of warfare. Mass production of muskets/cannon and black powder to keep them firing is just too much of a centralized industrial endevour for most Horse nomads to keep up in.

>>65437444
Assertions stop holding weight as an argument when you have been btfo on every point so far, jannydodger.

>>65437421
I think we can all agree commies are too retarded to talk with people who can get a job and buy a gun and live in a country with sorcerous things like "plumbing that can flush toilet paper" and "drinkable water".

>>65437429
>didn’t read award

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>>65434341
>it's not until you get the gatling gun that the last horse-archer dominated regions like central asia and the great plains finally get domesticated
Railroads are probably massively more important technology in that regard. The biggest thing protecting the last horse-nomads of inner Eurasia was the resupply distance between their steppes and the industrializing cities making modern weapons. Train lines erased a lot of that distance, meaning that settled people could chase horse normads into the sea of grass in a way they historically never could before.

>>65437483
No you clearly didn't read about the famines that happened during the USSR.

>>65437483
>Holodomor no real!!!
Absolutely ziggerified.

If you're wondering where the commie went he's seething that he had to dodge a ban and whining about the jannies in another thread.

>>65437453
>it was real in my head so I won

Typical subjective idealism

>>65437595
I was actually climbing a mountain, was a very scenic hike

>>65436349
THICC

>>65437879
No u.

>>65437884
The mountain of your failed pro-Iran threads where you got mocked and had to ban evade when you started spamming?

>>65437960
I don’t actually support the Iranian government, although I do support their fight against American Imperialism. The worker’s of this world have no nation and no government. I was once a zigger but I have grown to hate both sides of that war and it’s pointless slaughter. The soldiers of both sides should turn their arms on their governments for starting such a disastrous and pointless conflict in the first place.

>>65438009
Great idea anon, you should turn a weapon against the most immediate government of all (your brainmeat)

>>65438020
You seem a bit upset, maybe you need a break from the internet today, would help your mind a lot I am sure

>>65437453
found the post modernist.

>>65437888
I think I speak for everyone when I say, need thicc mongolian gf.

I think the short version is that because the Mongol army was federal, they could use it as a diplomatic card and being so mobile over such a large area, in a way that was curiously similar to the one the Romans, smaller states which were going to lose local wars all invited Mongol invasion to at least break even.

>>65438086
it's just you

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>>65437888
>>65438979

>>65437389
>end of ww2 until the early 60s
And the less than 15 years without breadlines makes the other 60 years of breadlines SO worth it, especially when you end up in a breadline at the end anyway. Very progressive

>>65436480
Get a job as a deliveryman for a high-end luxury product, you'll go to rich bitches' houses all the time.
t. used to deliver sleep number beds

>>65439732
No one has tried real bread lines yet.

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>>65437257
>>65437380
Do you think he's aware that Stalin supported the Dracula-looking motherfucker who denied genetics was a biological reality, especially when it came to farming?
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
Lol. Lmao even.

>>65439732
Well it’s proof that socialism absolutely works, the Kruschevite coup and steady restoration of capitalism is what doomed the USSR starting with the breakup of the MTS stations in the countryside and bourgeois style ’nationalizations’ which undermined the worker’s peasant alliance and created black markets in the countryside. These inefficiencies gave justification to Brezhnev’s faction to implement the Kosygin Plan which fully restored capitalism in the countryside and Gorbachev later fully implemented capitalism in 1985 to which the USSR dissolved 6 years later.

>>65439896
Lysenkoism is massively warped and misrepresented. The broader current of Michurinism actually just said that genetic mutations weren’t random and instead were influenced by material conditions and indeed that life evolved before DNA.

>>65439911
Or maybe because it was always a failed experiment that has succeeded nowhere

>>65439919
He thought genetics was a bourgeois concept, leading to inefficient and retarded practices

>>65437105
So can you explain why statist communism failed and why no successful nation has kept doing it?

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>>65439935
The entire globe capitalist system is the most interconnected system in history in the modern age. The moment the October revolution happened, every major capitalist power immediately tried to crush it militarily. They didn’t succeed and at one point about 1/3 of the world was Socialist. But the smaller revolutions depended on the backing of a strong core and this strong core was sabatoged from within when Stalin was Poisoned and Kruschev’s clique of revisionists took power by force and started the process of the restoration of capitalism. This is always a threat in a revolution just like Napoleon seizing power from the French.

But the trend of history is capitalism is still moribund and 30 years out from the end of the cold war and sovereign debt and economic crises are becoming more frequent. The same conditions that lead to ww1 are back because of the falling rate of profit and the core contraction of capitalism driven by private ownership of the means of production. Mankind possesses even more destructive weapons than back then and will inevitably kill hundreds of millions to uphold this system because no mode of production is born or dies peacefully. The only salvation of man will be a violent end to capitalism and the triumph of the people’s democracy all across the world.

>>65430683
Wait the Romans actiallly formed and Alliance with the Gauls before they finally beaten the Huns in the forests of Germania right?

>>65439935
I guess xe can't
>>65439956

>>65417985
>>65417959
You left out a key part of the rising empire out of nowhere phenomena: incorporation of the old empires into the new system. The rising empire is usually remarkably tolerant as long as you play by their rules. Usually some variation of submission followed by "you work for us now." Worked for Persia, Rome, the Muslims, Mongols, British, and Americans.

Yeah, the Mongols would massacre your city if you fought back. But, if you immediately surrendered, you get to keep your stuff, go off to join a cool, victorious army, and partake in glorious conquest of all your fuckass neighbors.

>>65439727
Who?

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>>65439919
Fuck off, tankie faggot.

>>65439956
How about in literally every other country that attempted Stalinism, what about them? Were all their leaders "poisoned" as well?

>>65439956
that's a lot of words just to say "no, communism is weak as shit and gets rekt every time and i'm a retarded faggot"
lol.

>>65437188
enjoy commie slavery lol.
oh wait you can't, because that system is inherently a failure and fucking sucks LMAO.

>>65437325
>it said, while literally spamming propaganda images with every post
sorry, you got rekt communigger.

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>>65437421
>CHARGER!

>>65440024
Several in eastern Europe live Gottwald and Beirut. Hoxha held out the longest but his successor betrayed his work. Mao somewhat upheld the Stalinist line but was critically lacking in party management with nonsense like 2 line struggle and rectification campaigns instead of self criticism and purges. Deng undid his work.
>>65440033
>literal quotes relevant to discussion are propaganda

>>65440077
Mao declared war on birds and caused his country to starve

>>65436431
Because we have gay shit like "rules of engagement" and "war crimes". If we made war as it should be made, there would be no more Arabs.

>>65440098
This story glosses over the more complex problems of the GLF and the numerous active saboteurs and incompetent people in party ranks who created the problem and sued it to attack Mao’s faction within the party. There was also the Sino Soviet split and suddenly complication of the biggest trading partners cutting them off cold turkey at a critical juncture.

>>65437389
>>65437403
>Ukraine under Polish administration
>Feeds an entire PLC and half of Western Europe
>Ukraine under pidorussian control
>famines locked on a loop
They would really run into sand shortages in The Sahara, wouldn't they. The level of puccian subhumanity is unmeasurable.

>>65417816
horse archers are really that op and they had a metric fuckton of them.

>>65440098
funny how people think they are super smart and immune to propaganda and then they hit you with the most absurd meme propaganda story from 60 years ago.

answer me this anon, how is it possible that the population of a country grows like crazy to become the most populous country in the world when they are supposedly starving to death? doesnt really make sense, doesnt it?

>>65440170
Nigger, sit down, your system doesn't work. You are a tankie who will never amount to anything, this conversation is over

>>65440170
Oh I'm immune to propaganda, but I'll gladly repeat bullshit that I find funny. Doubly so when it makes people mad, like reminding a special someone about their Japanese grandfather

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>>65439971

Very much this!
Like, if you accepted your new mongol overlords and paid their taxes, they generally left you alone, and you could do pretty much whatever you wanted.

There are even stories how a virgin maiden could travel from eastern europe all the way to the far east Karakorum, with "a golden plate strapped to her forehead" and nobody would dare to rob or molest her. Because she was walking through the lands governed by the troops of Genghis Khan. Despite being brutal warlords, they made sure that the rule of law WOULD be followed in their lands.

you obey the Khan's law. And that means, nobody touches the travellers. OR ELSE.

>>65440151
Poland never controlled all the parts of Ukraine that Russia is calling their today (Novorossiya) so unless you’re going to claim that isn’t Ukraine then idk what you’re saying here.

Populations were also smaller back then and the Polish didn’t need to introduce modern industrial agriculture to the region the way the Russians had to which always creates difficulties and shortages.

>>65440212
>Poland never controlled all the parts of Ukraine that Russia is
So Poland only controller part of extremely good region for farming, how does is it make an argument in rusniggeria's favour?
>Populations were also smaller back then
And how is that a problem? More people, more farmhands, Russia and Ukraine are sparsely populated, overcrowding was quite literally never a problem. Oh and places like France had 15-20m people in the early 14th century, populations of Europe were smaller, but often not that much smaller.
>Polish didn’t need to introduce modern industrial agriculture to the region
>Nooo that's not fair, Poles used three-field system and they managed to feed half of Europe, Russians had to use modern crop rotation and Haber-Bosch process, how could russhits ever compete?!
Yeah that's my point, subhumanity out of a fucking scale

>>65439963
There weren't any Gauls by the time the Huns showed up. The Romans basically just lucked out on the Pope meeting with Attila and telling him God would be pissed if he sacked Rome. So Attila left, then died randomly.

The Huns fell apart shortly after, but groups of them remained for centuries. The Bulghars who would invade Eastern Europe/the Balkans (giving Bulgaria its name) claimed descent from the Huns, as did the Hungarians (hence the name). These claims may or may not be true, as we have no clue who the Huns really were or what language they spoke.

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>>65440151
>>Feeds an entire PLC and half of Western Europe

at "Ukraine" i understood you are lying jewish bastard.

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>>65440383
>There weren't any Gauls by the time the Huns showed up.

FRANCE
BELGIUM
HALF GERMANY
AUSTRIA
PART OF HUNGARY

Fun part is that De-Gaulisation was runing in 4 parts. Hungarians triggered change in ethnic groups last time, when Gauls joined Germanians.

>>65440391
>FRANCE
>BELGIUM
>HALF GERMANY
>AUSTRIA
yeah we just call that ROME. None of them appear to have had any serious identity as "Gauls" at this time.

The Galatians (yeah, from the Bible) kept their language and culture alive longer, but it would die not soon after.

>>65440388
>Call his nonsense
>but howabout
How does that make you any less subhuman, Hivan? How having more farmland makes so you have less crops, you subhumans beyond measure? How modern farming techniques and fertilizes makes so you have less produce, you aspects of unfathomable subhumanity?

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>>65440395
>we
I have a little dreidel
I made it out of clay
And when it’s dry and ready
Oh, dreidel I go Poland back

Oh, dreidel dreidel dreidel
I made it out of clay
And when it’s dry and ready
Oh, dreidel I go Poland back

I’d love to be a dreidel
I’d spin round and round
And when I get real dizzy
Oops! I might go Poland back!

Oh, dreidel dreidel dreidel
I made it out of clay
And when it’s dry and ready
Oh, dreidel I go Poland back..

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>>65440410
...You think correctly pointing out the Romans owned the Gauls, and had for centuries by the time the Huns showed up, is Jewish?

Let me guess, you're some kind of "Scottish" or "Irish" American, right?

>>65440279
I mean, I would try to explain famine cycles and the limits of premodern agriculture and the difficulties of industrialization but I doubt you would care. All those places you mentioned had famines, communism didn’t invent famines.

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>>65440388
>>65440410
Hey zigzog, since you liked Wagner PMC so much, do me a favor.
Close your eyes; I gotta little surprise for you. Keep guessing, it's a real head-scratcher.

>>65440469
But I don't argue that it was the fault of communism, I argue that it was the fault of subhumans.
>All those places you mentioned had famines
>but howabout
Very well then, how about "Poland and half of Europe", how many millions of people did die as a result of famines in those places, in 20th century?

>>65439956
>But the smaller revolutions depended on the backing of a strong core and this strong core was sabatoged from within when Stalin was Poisoned and Kruschev’s clique of revisionists took power by force and started the process of the restoration of capitalism.
To engage with you properly, the entire system relying on one (1) dude and collapsing when he dies isn't exactly a stunning endorsement when they had, like, a third or fourth of the planet at one point. If it was actually resilient and strong it could have been fine with that much of the planet.

> This is always a threat in a revolution just like Napoleon seizing power from the French.
Napoleon is a good example, actually. He bult a system off of the use of force and never developed it off of that, and then it fell apart when force was no longer enough.

>>65440488
>how many millions of people did die as a result of famines in those places, in 20th century?
To him the Holodomor was just a stint of bad luck with the weather

what the fuck happened to this thread?
I was enjoying talking about horse archers?

>>65440638
Mongoloids thought the thread was about them

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>>65440647
Kek'd

>>65440502
Well while Stalin was very important he never ruled alone and there were uprisings and attempts against the revisionists that failed, largely because a huge amount of the most intelligent, capable communists gave their lives to ensure the defeat of fascism and not enough were left over to prevent the rot from within. It’s the exceptional case of being in Eastern Europe that made them so vulnerable.

Imagine if having a desolate expanse of useless grassland magically enabled your shithole country to field more tanks than sophisticated super powers
That's it, cavalry was just that strong, even the "counters" are cope provided you have the numbers what do you think happens to the pikemen impaling a horse in full gallop with lots of extra weight from the rider and its equipment
Does the pike/spear magically stop physics and make the horse stop its momentum and make a dead animation without even breaking your weapons like in video games and american movies?
Or does the dying horse keep its energy and crushes your dude and the dude behind him?
Having as many cavalry as the enemy has soldiers or more even means you cannot be stopped outside of forts

>>65418510
Archery is extremely overrated, even a siege crossbow cant penetrate even a tiny slab of wood in ideal conditions in close range, you think a bow thats half of the poundage as an english longbow which also cant penetrate shit, it was a morale play the vast majority of casualties were caused by the lancers the horse archers just softened them up
Also the wound channels of arrows are pathetic and the broadheads that address this problem are even more innefective against shields and armor

>>65441157
Retarded post.
>Imagine if having a desolate expanse of useless grassland magically enabled your shithole country to field more tanks than sophisticated super powers
False equivalence. Steppe powers were routinely outnumbered but won anyway. The Mongols pretty much never fought a single war of conquest where they were not massively outnumbered, including by enemy cavalry.
>Does the pike/spear magically stop physics and make the horse stop its momentum and make a dead animation without even breaking your weapons like in video games and american movies?
Okay cool your kamikaze rush killed one guy, maybe. You've lost a horse and a guy. That guy can be anybody who is conscripted to hold a pike. You can't keep up with this. You're going to run out first.
>Or does the dying horse keep its energy and crushes your dude and the dude behind him?
Neither in reality, the horse isn't going to charge into a wall of pikes.
Having as many cavalry as the enemy has soldiers or more even means you cannot be stopped outside of forts
It really doesn't.

>>65441163
>you think a bow thats half of the poundage as an english longbow
Surviving steppe nomad bows are on average the exact same weight as English longbows, much like longbows they run a huge variety of weights, up to over 200lbs, but the average sits at around or slightly over 100lbs. This is because that's really where the average person taps out on something usable over the course of a battle, even with training and conditioning. The longbow is not an impressive weapon; it is the worst and cheapest form of bow suitable for warfare. A recurve bow of the same draw weight is more efficient. It will shoot farther, as it imparts more energy. The longbow was only mass fielded because it was cheap to make, and it lost the only war it was relevant in.
>Also the wound channels of arrows are pathetic
Puncture injuries are going to be very, very bad for you in a world without antibiotics or tetanus vaccines.
>even a siege crossbow
Crossbows are weaker than longbows (which again, are weaker than recurve bows which horse archers used)


You're also ignoring that bows are far from the only weapon used, 'horse archers' would just as often use javelins, which WILL penetrate shields and armor. They also would have melee weapons, a horse archer is functionally just light cavalry. Infantry without pikes or fortifications are in for a very bad time facing them, if their formation falters at all, it's over.

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>>65441143
>largely because a huge amount of the most intelligent, capable communists gave their lives to ensure the defeat of fascism and not enough were left over to prevent the rot from within
That's a funny way of writing "were purged because of their social status, ethnicity, ancestry, career, because they'd been seen associated with someone else who was on the chopping block, or because Stalin was feeling extra paranoid this week." Stalin actually had the head of his secret police executed because he suspected him of a plot. Do tankies genuinely believe the shit they write?

>>65441165
> Steppe powers were routinely outnumbered but won anyway.
Outnumbered by WHAT? not fucking cavalry, which is the entire point of my post
>Okay cool your kamikaze rush killed one guy, maybe. You've lost a horse and a guy. That guy can be anybody who is conscripted to hold a pike. You can't keep up with this. You're going to run out first.
The formation is broken by two or 3 ranks despite killing the enemy and you dont see the problem?
>Neither in reality, the horse isn't going to charge into a wall of pikes.
>It really doesn't.
Yeah sure if we ignore recorded history

Listen, calvary counters like tercios and pikes are a matter of economy, horses and riders are expensive for a settled society so 3 dudes dying to kill a single rider and his horse is a win, its like infantry vs tanks in the XX century, anti tank weapons dont make the fight even in costs of life, the tank is still better protected,armed, trained and equiped than the infantry squad, however an infantry squad is more easily replaceable. The problem of mongols is that their horses were free and everyone was a rider so the entire cost effectiveness was irrelevant
Sorry for my english I'm an europoor and its 7am almost

>>65441179
Are you a mongol by any chance?

>>65441185
Don't bother arguing with these people, they've got a million excuses for why communism fails every fucking time, like a battered house wife, they are extremely averse to admitting that they backed the wrong horse.

>>65441194
>not fucking cavalry, which is the entire point of my post
Yes, by fucking cavalry. The Turkic and Arabic states they conquered fielded absolutely vast numbers of cavalry. Khwarazmia was a nation literally created by Turkic cavalrymen that rebelled and created their own nation. The Mongols utterly destroyed it.
>Yeah sure if we ignore recorded history
Name one time ever in recorded history that your strategy was used by steppe nomads. Just one please. You're just saying "recorded history" to try to lend credence to your argument when you have read zero history, and are making everything you say up out of thin air and videogames.
>of mongols is that their horses were free and everyone was a rider
That's great, their population is vastly inferior to settled people, and their horses are not free at all-they are their most valuable possession.

This retarded idea that they were a vast, endless horde that dwarfed the settled people and ran them over with sheer numbers is a total inversion of reality. If they fought as you describe, they would not have won a single war before running out of Mongols.

>>65441202
Do you actually think there are any Mongols, at all, on /k/ of all places?

>>65441221
>implying no mongols on a Mongolian basket weaving forum
Look around, anon. It's mongoloids as far as the eye can see.

>>65441221
On the Internet, nobody knows you're a mongol.

>>65441230
If Elgin is opening up the Jewish heritage job program to mongoloids I want in Moshe, don't hold out on me

>>65441239
the only singing your throat does is when it's filled with cock, you're not allowed in

>>65441185
>suspected
No, all those plots were uncovered, all the evidence was uncovered and they were pit in trial and found guilty of treason. Even the CIA admitted a while ago the Doctor’s Plot was legit

>>65417985
Thanks for the QRD of the history of somalia, søren-ahmed

>>65441578
Bullshit, stalin had to release doctors from prison because there was no one to treat him, as he imprisoned them. Stalin was old, unhealthy, had a stressful rule, and he died a natural death.

>slide back into thread
>communigger is STILL SEETHING
lol.

>>65440077
>literal propaganda narrative quotes irrelevant to the failure of communism are propaganda
yes.

>>65440170
>N-NOOOOO A RECORDED EVENT IN HISTORY WHERE RETARDED COMMUNIGGERS STARVED BECAUSE OF COMMUNIGGER DECISIONMAKING WAS PROPAGANDA!!!!
lol.
it's not just trying to extinguish a vital part of the ecological food chain that caused that pointless famine btw.
communiggers were also of the delusional belief that crops didn't need spacing and you could plant them as close together as possible, and that this would increase yield because according to their beliefs, plants would share all their nutrients and wouldn't compete and wilt that close together.

we now know of course, that in the correct setting, many plant species in a natural ecological setting do occasionally share nutrients, but that is all moot when you put two plants a few cm's away from eachother and ask them to get along, as well as not doing any kind of crop rotations and basically just farming the shit out of your soil year after year until it turns red from over-exhaustion and your soil culture dies.

>>65440469
>communism didn't invent famines
no, it was just better than every other system of government at causing them.

>>65442369
The British Raj famines was more devastating than amy communist ones and didn’t help build an industrial superpower

>>65442324
https://youtu.be/xjRz6sBD6YE

>>65442800
People died in the communist famines. Not comparable.

>>65442807
I got my shit from Kotkin

>>65417985
Your discount Germans were btfo'd by the Russians, the epitome of the 'poor' state craft you highlight. Lulz

>>65417921
Mainly this. Whenever they could be maneuvered into a pitched battle they couldn't do their kiting in they tended to lose.

>>65417816
It all came together really neatly.
Being steppe nomads isn't an iWin button. The Romans, Persia and China routinely dealt with them just fine. Before the Mongolsy steppe nomads were frequently threats, but managed to conquer large, sedentary states a grand total of zero (0) times. At best, they'd take over smally isolated ones (e.g. Bactria), take over parts but fail to conquer the whole thing (China) or be disruptive but not actually conquer shit (everywhere).
Nomad states were by their very nature fleeting, prone to breaking up, with ill-disciplined warriors riding off to do their own thing and constant infighting. They never ceased to be annoying because sedentary states didn't have the ability to project power into the steppe long-term, but this ultimately held true vice versa as well, and sedentary states just had way more people. By an order of magnitude or two.
This was how things worked for two thousand years.
Then Genghis Khan happened. And shit got weird.
For some reasony Genghis had the kind of personality that had people who were his peers on the battlefield instead loyally serve him. This led to half a dozen brilliant generals, who under any other circumstances, would've been at each other's throats, working together instead.
AT THE SAME TIME, China was split in two, Khwarezmia was basically just the Mongols but worse, Persia's reaources were hardly used because Khwarezmia, the Caliphate was worthless, the Turks despised by the Arabs. A united China, a united middle east, and the Mongols, for all their brilliance, are stopped. Instead, just as the Mongols reached their peak, their neighbours were at their weakest.
The Mongols were an incredibly unlikely event whose success was down to Genghis' insane personal charisma and skill, and literally every powerful polity that usually kept nomads in check being out of commission at the time.

>>65443607
>but managed to conquer large, sedentary states a grand total of zero (0) times
Well that's just not true at all. The Parthians were steppe nomads who conquered all of Persia from the Seleucids. That was a very big deal. The Sakas took over Khotan, but you'll probably claim a major silk road nation that was 'small', so they also took over Northern India, which was a very big deal at the time not a small fry backwater. Then of course there are the Goths and Vandals who consumed the Western Roman Empire (and the Huns would have taken the whole thing had Attila not died). The Avars and Bulgarians took out massive chunks of the Eastern Roman Empire for their own.
>a united middle east
You mean the thing the Turks broke into in the first place and conquered?

Steppe people were very much an existential threat to settled societies historically, above is just the ones that actually succeeded

many mention the mobility aspect of their army, which is a massive advantage. But what isnt mentioned as much is the culture and lifestyle.

Imagine a large group of people dependent on herding and hunting for food; cowboys with bows. where 50+% of males regularly move camp over large distances, ride horses, raid other nomads, hunt, find lost herds, drive out other raiders, drive out predators from herds.and their lifestyle is primarily a milk and meat based protein diet.

You have a society where 50%+ of the male population train more for war and war adjacent tasks than the average feudal knights and nobles. The primary advantage that landed societies have on nomads is numbers. Yeah, no shit that when the nomads band together and get equal numbers, they beat the living shit out of landed societies, where the vast majority of their armies are peasant levies whose war experience boils down to basic weapons training and marching at best. fortifications are useful up until the horde army gets so big it cant be beaten in the field and they starve your cities and castles.

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>>65417816
>be mongol
>practice ultimate technique
>run away.
>no one can catch you and if they try hit them with an arrow lol

>be mongol
>enemy general calculates you will be out of food because no feed for horses or whore train
>drink horse-blood straight from the neck, fuck the horse too
>can ride for twenty four hours and sleep in the saddle.

>be mongol
>grainfed retards begging you don't kill their pig.
>get idea
>sell their pig to the local lord
>buy them each a sharp stick and tell them the lord has a pig for each of them.
>trample them with your horse if they don't agree

>be mongol
>cowardly fat reddit king begs for his life
>peasants demand he is executed
>ask king to give you his paperwork and translators
>tfw this guy is retarded my uncle Jochi could do better.
>thank the king, execute his family publicly, Unc Jochi marries a local cute noble.
>tfw peasants love jochi,
>ofc jochi's the best.

>be mongol
>stole lots of gold because enemies love it
>being chased by light calv and out of arrows
>oh shit
>horse is getting tired
>drop the gold
>horse is cooked turn to look
>pursuers gave up to pick up the useless trinkets you dropped
>swap horses and run them down, lol retards.

>be mongol
>china likes paper money because they are faggots
>silk money would at least have value
>try to improve lives of chinaman by making his money worth something
>chinaman says no, fuck you
>steal all of chinaman's gold to buy white girls from poland
>tfw modern day russia
>ruined by the jews,
>tfw modern day persia
>ruined by jews and jeets
>tfw modern day pakistan
>ruined by arabs and jeets
>tfw modern day iraq ruined by arabs
>modern day ukraine ruined by jews
>modern day belarus and poland are ok ig?
>turkey ok ig?
>koreans will pretend not to be mongols

>be mongol
>wows it's humid out here
>*bow breaks*
>guess I go home

>>65437389
>The communists ended the centuries long famine cycle
>after the 40s

>>65442800
cool whataboutism, still doesn't stop commies from being famine machines as proven by every single time they came to power.

>>65442807
nobody cares, communigger.

>>65424266
He's Paki

>>65417816
>How the hell did the mongols managed to beat, the song/jin/georgia/persia. Shit makes no sense, especially persia
mohammed II was a genuine retard where it comes to military matters, he intentionally split his forces against the mongols

>>65444825
>mohammed II was a genuine retard where it comes to military matters, he intentionally split his forces against the mongols
Mohammed II had spent two decades and change beating the everliving shit out of the Ghurids and Seljuks, subjugating Persia, reaching the Indus and crushing the outer vassals of the Kara Khitai (though the Kara Khitai themselves were done in by the Mongols). The only reason he didn't put down the Abbasids once and for all were snowed-in mountain passes.
Retards in military matters don't win wars for twenty years straight.
Thing is, he did want to end the Kara Khitai, too, but the Mongols were faster. Seeking glory, he attacked the Mongol army that'd just beaten Kara Khitai and forced it to withdraw.
That is to say, this experienced commander of twenty years with a string of unending victories attacked a numerically inferior force operating far from its homeland, which had just fought a battle, short on arrows and with its swords blunted from use... and all he accomplied was for them to leave the battlefield in good order.
This experience TERRIFIED him, and he reasoned, quite soundly, that when the Mongols came down on him in force, he would not stand a chance in the field (can't keep a large army together forever in the steppe in the first place, he'd have to split eventually; worth noting that the Mongols invaded with several geographically divided detachments, too).
But Muhammad II also knew that steppe armies suck at sieges. So instead of facing the Mongols were they were strongest and he already knew from experience he couldn't beat them, he instead forced the Mongols to attack him where he was strongest and the Mongols could be expected to be at their weakest.
This wasn't retardation. It was a sound military strategy developed by a man with two decades of experience and countless victories under his belt.
The Mongols brought Chinese siege engineers.

>>65445064
Muhammed II's tragedy wasn't that he was a retarded, inbred noble way out of his depth. Muhammed II's tragedy was that he knew what he was doing, he was making exactly the right decisions - and it still wasn't enough.
He wasn't blindly and enthusiastically walking into a disaster. He saw what was coming with his eyes wide open, and yet was unable to stop it.

>>65443607
>just as the Mongols reached their peak, their neighbours were at their weakest.
>The Mongols were an incredibly unlikely event
Correct, but you won't get that into anyone's head, because you see, Mongols would totally conquer the entire world if they wanted to, everyone was just lucky that [random reason], all the contrary evidence, Mongol defeats, and more? Not the real mongols, lalala can't hear you.

>>65445093
But that's completely untrue. The other steppe peoples they fought against were often at the apex of their power, and the Mongols crushed them. Those same groups were held at bay by the settled people around them.

Your evidence of the other powers being weak is that the Mongols beat them, and that's it. It's self referential system where your belief from the outset is that the Mongols were nothing special, and every straw will be grasped to reinforce it.

You, are wrong. You are also fucking stupid, with your reddit-tier instinctive contrarianism.

>>65445312
>Mongols were nothing special
I'm not claiming that
>You are also fucking stupid, with your reddit-tier instinctive contrarianism.
Not every attempts at critics comes from pure contrarianism. Check this post for example
>>65420361
It has valid points, but also mixed a complete nonsense but why to try argue about it when it ends
>yeah horse nomads were op, and when they failed it's because there were not the real horse nomads!
>The other steppe peoples they fought against were often at the apex of their power, and the Mongols crushed them.
Who cares about that? Steppe people defeated steppe people, therefore steppe people are good at fighting? Various barbarians are good at punching above their weight, but all of them are one-trick ponies. Yeah amazing, you can field half of your population as a field army, in case of horse nomads as a cavalry, and cavalry was op. But what next? What can they improve, how can they adapt? They can't.

>>65445582
>>yeah horse nomads were op, and when they failed it's because there were not the real horse nomads!
An army can be made of superhumans, but if their general is a retard it's going to crash and burn regardless.

>>65417985
>it’s about countries modernizing competently and effectively over other nations while not falling to the same traps
>it’s not about American exceptionalism
Euronigger seethe can’t help itself lol

>>65445629
>Success is only possible if they are lead by a genius
One trick ponies

>>65436349
Her poor back…

>>65440212
This is probably the most obscenely subhuman niggered up faggot post imaginable.

>>65440638
>>65440647
>>65440658
Peach of a post.

>>65445661
She'll be fine, asian girls don't weigh much.

>>65445797
that just makes her even more topheavy causing more pain you fool