>President Trump has directed the Navy to abandon the electromagnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS) being used on the Gerald R. Ford class carriers and return to traditional steam catapults, according to U.S. officials cited by the Wall Street Journal.>Trump signed a national security memorandum directing the Navy to redesign the fourth Ford class carrier, Doris Miller, and subsequent ships around steam catapults. The first three carriers, Gerald R. Ford, John F. Kennedy and Enterprise, will retain EMALS.>The decision reverses years of Navy and industry resistance to Trump's proposal, largely because replacing EMALS would require significant redesign and could cost billions of dollars.>Trump has criticized EMALS for years, arguing that it is overly complex and less reliable than steam catapults. The move effectively locks in a major technological reversal for future U.S. aircraft carriers.Thoughts?: https://www.wsj.com/us-news/trump-orders-navy-to-restore-old-technology-in-aircraft-carriers-costing-billions-0055ec1b?mod=hp_lead_pos2
>>65421483Big steam paid the bribes, big steam got what they wanted.
good, EMALS is a meme
EMALS already served Its main purpose which was to trick the chinks into spending billions copying a piece of technology that doesn't work.
>>65421502>copying a piece of technology that doesn't work.Only Chink EMALS is DC while US EMALS is ACTesla won.
>>65421483GOD DAMN IT
>>65421509Chink EMALS is DC for "Don't chute (the planes)"AC, american, much better, is "Always Chute"
>>65421536DC is straightAC is opposite of that.
>>65421502Theirs works. Sorry about your izzat, Patel.
>i know more about war than generals
>>65421483Doesn't the majority of what emals require come from China as the only source of material? So if the USA ever has to repair or build more, it'd require a reliance on China to supply it or the USA can't use it's own carriers to launch aircraft?
>>65421564The American one has greater than 99.96% reliability. The Chinese one has worked at least four times.
>>65421568Surprisingly true more times than not.
>retard comes up with a bright idea, underlings promise to study it>underlings wait until retard forgets, if he doesn't they come back with an estimate that it would cost more money than exists>bright idea gets droppedhappens daily, it's just usually not the president doing it
>>65421496>>65421604>>65421610Fatniks are more obnoxious than vatniks.
>>65421483Doesn't the final decision go to congress?
>>65421648I am the Senate.
>>65421483Steam catapults work fine. Aircraft carriers make steam out the wazooWhy convert steam to electricity and then electricity into forward motion when the steam catapult does the same thing more efficiently?>>65421502lmao this
>>65421699
>>65421699slim amy is just a less capable turd, she trades belly weight for width, and isn't fooling anybody with those chonker ass hips
I mean CVs are already glorified steam boats anyway
>>65421483>Thoughts?WSJ lied for engagement. The memo (which is on the WH website for all to read) does not order the USN to replace EMALS with steam cats.
>>65421742Damn, I guess we'll just have to settle for having stealth jets that actually work
>>65421754>fat amy can barely take off with a full loadout>actually work
>>65421483lmao why is blumpf so scared of magnets?
>>65421483
>>65421509But Tesla was AC. Edison won
>>65421762>say that when he need afterburners to take off from a carriercope harder chinkoid
>>65421483Why the fuck is a reality TV star issuing directives about advanced technology on US navy ships?
>Steam CATOBAR have 15 min warm up time in cold weather>Therefore many states go with ramps that don't require this heat up time>haha xD ramps xD le ski jump xD we'll just make EMALS so the warm up time doesn't exist>This happens>cope is 'it doesn't work anyway'
>>65421807Wouldn't they keep it warmed in cold climates if they are in a position where they need to scramble? Seems like a pretty easy solution.
>>65421483How many times has this happened? I swear I have seen articles about Trump cancelling EMALS at least three separate times.
>>65421483Isn't it because EMALS uses a boatload of rare earth magnet, which relies on Chinese supply chain?
>>65421483Can white people just not understand magnets like they're the ICP? China figured it out.
IJN IJN IJN! holy fucking shit usa is dead...
>>65421879He talks about it, but just like every other time he isn’t able to actually do it because it requires congressional consent.
>>65421800Why did the Paloiolagos family hold lavish feasts depite having lost all farm and recruitment land? Death throes of an empire.
>>65422019Not beating the thirdie accusations.
Bringing back steam catapults is about the least interesting part of the memorandum. Picrel, however, is VERY interesting.Genuinely pleased USN is finally going to leverage Japanese and Korean shipbuilding capacity while US shipbuilding is nursed back from the brink of extinction.
>>65421483>“You're going to goddamned steam,” Trump said at the timengl I was in orange man bad camp for a while, but this nigger has won me over
>>65421728/thread
>>65421807rampfag cope sustains me
>>65422109damn, that is very interesting. now lets see if we can get some good ship designs lol
>>65421483This is terrible because its going to possibly/probably damage US high power electric naval complex which feeds lasers and railguns. So stupid.
>>65422243To that end, the memorandum explicitly demands DoD figure out a way to tardwrangle NAVSEA
>>65421728>>65422136>Sec. 2. Restoring Steam and Hydraulic Systems to Carriers. Within 60 days of the date of this memorandum, the Secretary of War, in consultation with the Secretary of the Navy, shall provide to the President, through the Director of the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) and the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs (APNSA), a plan on the required measures to replace the Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System and Advanced Weapons Elevators with steam and hydraulic systems for the construction of CVN-81, including timelines and resourcing requirements.It technically does not per se order CVN 81 to use steam, but it looks like Trump really will
>>65422254>prevent NAVSEA from redesigning shit that already workswhoa, finally. good enough and delivered vs perfect and never made.
>>65422263He can’t. Congress has final say on what goes into the ship because they pay for everything. One line item saying the money is for EMALS is all that will come of this. The Senate has already been trying to kill the whole foreign shipbuilding thing this talks about too.
>>65421483who jumped off the carrier this time Billy Bob?
>>65422109>>65422243It's yet another example of hype solutions which don't understand the real situation. Scandinavian shipbuilders succeeded by specializing in a niche - small corvette sized naval vessels produced in mass quantities in modular configurations. Large shipbuilding capacity is already overbuilt globally. Input cost in the US are also significantly higher, both for labour and suppliers (tariffs make this far worse). Even more stupidly, it would be insanely difficult to build naval ships in foreign owned American shipyards because of security clearances, laws and so on. Any shipbuilding yard investment in the US will just be a 100% loss. So the only reason a company will agree is if they can charge a stupidly high amount for building it. Or they drag out the investment until they get paid them bail
>>65422263Trump would be fucking dead before they even finish redesigning the doris miller
>>65422326You don’t follow any of this very closely if these are your assessments of what’s going to happen here.
>>65421762lol which country operates a ramp carrier again?
>>65422346You have no idea what you’re talking about. They couldn’t even get the E-7 cancelled.
>>65422254>how do we solve competing priorities dragging designs apart>what if we just order them to not hold competing priorities
>>65422371It's so brave of you to post without being able to read
>>65421483Semi related but have the EMALS on the Fords seen improvements in recent days? I know the 2nd ship of the class JFK will have F-35 compatibility but that's about as much I know. Apparently there's a debate about AC vs DC power with the Chinks using the latter cause apparently it works best with her conventional power plant, I don't have any knowledge on that admittedly but I am curious.
>>65422263>memorandum >a plan
>>65422412It’s fine. Ford is said to have done sortie generation test last deployment, and apparently it can maintain a higher rate than the Nimitz class, though they’ve not said by how much. If it were all that problematic of a system at this point Ford wouldn’t have been able to stay on a combat deployment as long as it did.
Have we tried these?
>>65421483That fucking retard
>>65421483How is every single thing he does the new stupidest thing he ever did?
>>65422451>>65422456>baited
>>65421762It's super funny when chinks/brownoids insist on calling the F-35 "fat amy" when it's actually smaller than the J-35
>>65422515Slim Amy is a tall girlFat Amy is your average 4ft spic woman
>>65422515Not just smaller, it's tastefully shaped like the bitch got muscle
>>65421483because electricity bad and fossil fuel boiled steam good?
>>65422555>it's so bad, you know what they're doing? They're putting windmills on the carriers, and they kill the birds, millions of them you know, and we're putting a stop to it
>it’s another people discussing false premise article threadCan you fucking retards actually check whether or not the headline the faggot OP put in his post is actually true before trying to discuss it?My god this is pathetic.
>>65421774Because the chinks have a monopoly over them
>>65422555>fossil fuelAre the tards around here getting more tarded? Because it sure seems like it.>>65422631To be fair, some of it has been discussion of things that are actually in the memo.
>>65422109Isn't that exactly what happened with Fincantieri and the Constellation class before the program was canceled? The U.S. gets foreign shipbuilders to invest their own capital to rebuild failing U.S. yards and train local workers. Then, when the Navy cancels the contract, the U.S. keeps the upgraded shipyards and the trained workforce at virtually no cost to the taxpayer. Truly 4D chess.
>>65422631Anything to hate orange man on nu-/k/ right sisters?
>>65421483Boomers just can't stop fucking everything up.
>>65422631>FalseDepends. Literally, it's not false because Trump did direct the Navy to submit a redesign. Ambiguously understood, he is not forcing Doris Miller to have a steam with the memorandum itself. But in reality, he is hell bent on it.
>>65422681It depends on how big of a sucker the company is. If you already have overcapacity, why would you invest in a foreign and hostile country?>>65422684He is retarded. I mean, the defense of Trump here at this point is "it's not bad because someone will stop him."
>>65422688>it's not falseIt is false, words have meaning.The OP said officially
>>65422689No, the defense of Trump is that hes trying to revitalize American shipbuilding and rebuild the navy. The navy who hasn't been able to do a damn thing for the last 20 years without a major fuckup. The navy who keeps saying just give us a few more years to fix the electric catapults. Trump isn't perfect but saying this bill is just orange man bad and must be stopped is childish and missing the point. As I said, the usual nu-/k/ reaction.
>>65422699What bill?
>>65422254>NAVSEA designs exactly the destroyer they need>Get told it's too expensive>Take the old destroyer and make it just as expensive but half as good>WTF NAVSEA, why didn't you do this in the first place?>NAVSEA designs a small and inexpensive ship>Get told it's not survivable enough>Get told they need to use a foreign design to keep costs down>It turns out trying to make a foreign design more survivable than the old ship is unreasonably expensive>Buy the alternative to the old design that was already turned down over a decade before for being worse and more expensive>WTF NAVSEA, why didn't you do this in the first place?
>>65421502>>65421707>this is the new copeoh god we're fucked, literally the end of an empire
>>65421483Let me guess, Eric just got a majority share position in Steam Catapults Inc?
>>65421483Well that makes sense, all the money saved can be used on the battleships instead>because replacing EMALS would require significant redesign and could cost billions of dollarsOh, nevermind
>>65422681>virtually no cost to the taxpayer>$10 billion spent to maybe deliver two frigatessure buddy
>It depends on how big of a sucker the company is. If you already have overcapacity, why would you invest in a foreign and hostile country?Fincantieri literally bought a US Shipyard and trained US workers for the Constellation Class FFG until It got canned. The US will try to do the same with Korean and Japanese companies while using "US Navy contracts" as bait which worked with the italians
>>65422699The electric catapults work though. Ford just completed one of the longest deployments in history. That would not have been possible were the catapults defective.
>>65422681Marinette had been building Freedoms for twenty years by the time they started construction on Constellation.
>>65422768And what happened to the Ford during its latest deployment against Iran? I'm sure It influenced POTUS decision
>>65422771Are you saying that the EMALS clogged the shitter?
>>65422771Nothing regarding its emals? Why don't you shitskins actually say what you want to say instead of vague posting?
>>65422681that capacity is still owned by that foreign company and those trained workers are still employed by them.every ship the USN has build there means money leaving the US to parent company
>>65422771A laundry fire, which has nothing to do with the catapult system. The ocean destroys machines, which is why you aren’t supposed to keep them on deployment for almost a calendar year. That it was still a well functioning system after that long is a testament to its current reliability. He has been hung up about this for a decade, it has nothing to do with current events.
>>65422773Trump should have signed an EO to remove Indians from General Atomics engineering team.
>>65421707>Why convert steam to electricity and then electricity into forward motion when the steam catapult does the same thing more efficiently?Because steam ones unironically suck dick in a lot of ways?
>>65421502Anon, I think we should nuke China into a cinder and even I think that's cope.
So we can infer that EMALS doesn't work as well as intended. Years before, people criticized the high failure rate and maintenance downtime compared to steam catapults and the fact that all catapults had to be shut down to repair one of them.
>>65421707 Because you can then save tons of weight and space in piping, increase reliability, lower costs. No hundreds of feet of high pressure steam pipes to inspect and repair. Also, you're already generating industrial amounts of electricity for the rest of the systems, so what's the problem?
>>65422871Linear motors are great, the Navy fucked up by going with flywheel energy storage instead of a capacitor bank so they still have to deal with mechanical wear on precision machined surfaces.
>We need to rebuild our entire aircraft carrier fleet as WW3 is about to kick off>Also, we're out of missiles>Also, we still don't have drone tech down at a commercial level
>>65422876>also don't les Ukraine make PAC-2s because they will do it too fast and cheap making us look bad
>>65422876Is that the brown suit that caused so much screaming?
>>65422890It's just incentive structures, when engineering paid well it attracted smart people, now finance is where the money is so smart people sit at a computer trading inflated stocks instead of designing things.
>>65422298>Congress has final sayThats not how dictatorships work.
>>65421483They're also trying to get another "Constellation" class frigate
>>65422924Could just be funding for FF(X) flight II.
Just give us the Mirai from ZIPANG! and my life is yours.
>>65421483Kek, this is going to fuck up the navy. The cost will be massive and the next carrier will be seriously delayed, fucking up the replacement of an EOL carrier that will also have a knock-back effect on the deployments of all other carriers.
France will have EMALS made by general atomics while the burgers don't AHAHAHAHA
This is what happens when you put Senile Boomer Grandpa from the attic in charge.USELESS Battleships and Stone Age Catalpults.Our fucking Age Of Bronze is collapsing. Fuck this senile old DRAFT DODGER.
>>65422298of course. remember how trump was going to strike iran and congress said no? or when he floated the idea of invading venuzeulia, but congress said no? or that silly idea of renaming DoD into the department of war? or global tariffs?the dude is EXTREMELY well known to just ignore congress, what makes this any different.
i am demororized. . . humirriation..
>>65423040Yes but unironically
>>65421502>copying a piece of technology that doesn't work.Y'know all them maglev trains?That technology doesn't work... Have you considered informing the operators of these machines? I woulda saids Eric Laithwaite but he's already dead...
>>65422875Vely implessive chang. Now lets see the sortie rate comparison between china numba wan carrier and American carriers. Surely this efficient and well-made chinese system will vastly exceed American performance, and not actually be nearly 50% less efficient in real-world use, riiiiight?
>>65421483>president is a nogunz retardMakes me wonder why anyone shills for him
>>65422982C'est rigolo!
>>65423063Yes it's funny that we get la crème de la crème of american military tech while the us military don't because the president is a dumb fuck owned by chabbad
>>65421491they want to squeeze every last penny of their steam deposits before they allow to move with alternatives
>>65422754Please sent us all of the JTAMs and LRASMs before you turn off the lights.
>>65421483>trump has stock in the company that makes themGee I wonder why this change was forced
>>65422681No, what are you, simple? The Constellation has been 100% built in (Fincantieri-owned) US yards. Allowing USN ships to be built in foreign yards is a radical break from precedent.
>>65421502>we made china built something that works for them weird cope but alright
>>65423204Don't fool yourself, he's been obsessed with this concept since 2017.>By doing so, Trump is making good on a promise he made almost 10 years ago to go back to the steam system after hearing a sailor praise it while visiting a ship during his first term.
>>65421707>when the steam catapult does the same thing more efficiently?EMALS has about 20x greater thermodynamic efficiency. But the main reason for it is that it can be programmed to hit a target acceleration and hold it, while steam is just 100% all the time. This greatly reduces the wear and tear on aircraft being launched.
>>65422412>Apparently there's a debate about AC vs DC power with the Chinks using the latter cause apparently it works best with her conventional power plantAC vs DC doesn't matter. EMALS uses AC because linear induction motors are AC. The chink catapult uses DC because it's a captive railgun and railguns are DC.
>>65423356>while steam is just 100% all the timeIt's not, for planes like the C-2A they have to drastically reduce the pressure and lot of "hot shots" ripping the front gear off planes is why EMALS was developed in the first place.
>>65423353he could have had some form of stake in that company even back then.
>>65422875>>65422881I never put two and two together on this but I'm surprised the navy was working on railguns rather than coilguns. Of course the barrel life was shit, you're dumping, what, MA? through the projectile as it accelerates>wondering if they could get solve the need for a ferromagnetic projectile in a coilgun by having pusher plates with parachutes and strings that they recover between shots
>>65422875>Man, America made a pen that could write in space. The Soviets used pencils, so simple and therefore superior to American innovation.
>>65423366>like the C-2AWhich they fittingly retired about two weeks ago
>>65422873>the Navy fucked up by going with flywheel energy storage instead of a capacitor bankCapacitors don't store AC power.>>65422875>coilgunIt's not a coilgun.
>>65422436Big Rubber hands typed this
>>65423412Still need to tune the shot, the heavier the plane the slower the shot has to be so the front doesn't fall off.What makes electric cats cool is you can measure acceleration in real time and completely remove the human error of tuning shots, by the first foot the cat knows how heavy the plane is and how hard it needs to push.
No one actually thinks this idea or the battleship stuff is going to end up happening, right? It's just wasting the time and money of the design bureau (so, the usual MO) until great-grandpa leaves office.
>>65423463This is stupid, but there's nothing wrong with the battleship (air defense cruiser).
>>65423463Killing programs is a lot easier than reviving them.>fire everyone>they find different jobs>they don't want to risk coming back because they might be randomy fired again>all expertise is goneHe could easily set the program back a decade simply because the next admin can't get the same staff back.
>>65423435>so the front doesn't fall off.Is that common?
They should have added a smoke generator into the EMALS and also some spark generator.People would think EMALS are fucking cool then.
>>65423387I think the bombardment railgun was a bigger meme than some wacky super high velocity meme cannon. The Japanese railgun for point defense type stuff seems like a much better application.
Good to see /k/ is just like /pol/ when it comes to not fucking reading the bait articles if orange man is involved
>>65423356>while steam is just 100% all the timeDo yanks not have valves to fine-tune that crap?
>>65423584Its all yuros now dude. Shits sad.
>>65423594Yes, but you have to maintain steam pressure.With EMALS you can run a generator at optimum constant RPMs, recharge your capacitors between shots and it ends up being way more efficient because you're not wasting energy.It's one of those concepts boomers literally cannot fathom because their brain is forever stuck in the 1970s.
>>65423623>recharge your capacitors between shotsIf only, EMALS went full retard and used flywheel storage.
>>65423627See >>65423420
>>65423629Yet another reason to not use AC but you could use high power inverters if you really wanted AC for some reason.
>>65423614Sure, those 'yuros' are always waiting to write mean articles about king donnie in the WSJ.
>>65423627Well, it may sound old-fashioned but it's actually OK for energy density and you avoid potentially interesting chemistry in the capacitors.
>>65423630You have to use AC if you want to use a LIM. Can a railgun do >>65423435?
>>65423651My main issue is you are replacing a system with a lot of moving parts with another system with a lot of moving parts.>>65423654>Can a railgun do >>65423435 (You)?Kek, a DC coilgun can.t. industrial electrician
>>65423659It's almost like moving parts aren't the problem.
>>65423670Lets run down the pros / cons for each>AC pros>don't need to switch power during run if you don't want fine control>flywheels are energy chemically inert>less solid state circuitry if you don't want fine control>AC cons>giant finely tuned gyros being thrown around by high seas>fine control needs a lot of solid state>DC pros>solid state cap banks>easy fine control>DC cons>possible fire hazard with caps>needs a lot of solid state Personally I would lean towards a DC coilgun because you can easily replace a single coil and build plenty of redundancy into the cap bank and load switching.If you divide the cap bank into 100 sub banks, the transistors into 100 sub banks and put 100 coils down the rail you only lose 1% from any part failing.With the 4 flywheel design of ELAMS you lose 25% when ever a single motor / wheel is down.
>>65422681>It has taken the US shipyards close to 15 years to cut steel for the first PSC and it's estimated it'll take till 2030 for the first icebreaker to complete, maybe.>It took eight months from Trump signing the paycheck for the Finnish shipyards to start cutting steel, with estimate for the first ships to complete in 2028
>>65423696>possible fire hazard with capsJust don't use tantalum?
>>65421568Yeah. Trumpy-doo is delusional like that, I know
>>65421707>Why convert steam to electricityBecause aircraft carriers are already doing that at a massive scale you fucking retard?
>>65423732No, we must use Peltier generators so we can harness ~3% of the reactors power instead of using steam to get ~95%.
>>65423718Yeah bro we'll just fill our ship up with electrolytic caps. What could go wrong?
>>65421496It was a Great Deception to get the enemy to waste money on. Just like "Star Wars" under Reagan. Someday soon, you will see Trump's head carved into Mt Rushmore right next to Reagan's.
>>65423630DC too difficult for white peoples. Please understand.
>>65423780I think the main issue is EMALS started long before super caps existed and the energy density of normal caps is trash mr chink shill.They should have swapped over when super caps entered mass production but I imagine congress would crack the shits if you said you wanted to throw 5 years of engineering in the bin.
>>65423746>Peltier generators>to generate power on a carrierAbsolutely sublime shitpost, thanks anon.
>>65422681>they cancel the icebreakersdon't care, we already got the money lol
>>65422555 LOL how dumb are you? How does nuclear powered = fossil fuel?
>>65422555thisget rid of that gay ass nuclear reactor and gp back to beautiful clean coal! how many world wars has nuclear energy won? ZERO! SAD!
>>65423994>how many world wars has nuclear energy won?WW2 comes to mind...
>>65424003what build the bombs? coalwhat build the planes? coalwhat fueled the ships carrying the bombs? coal BIG BEAUTIFUL COAL WON US THE WAR
>>65422631the NFA just got gutted and the redditors are seething
>>65423802Eh the Navy is (rightly) averse to anything they view as increasing fire risk, and the worst case scenario for a flywheel failure in a damage control scenario is significantly tamer than the worst case for a large capacitor bank. They’re quite happy to trade away some on paper performance for a better chance of surviving being blown up.
>>65421644Mutts don’t care. They are content to amplify Russian disinformation and literal RT agitprops, as long as “hurr durr I can buy a gun without paying taxes”
>>65421502Don't theme parks use this tech for rollercoasters? Not sure how reliable they are or long lasting they are for carrier usage out at sea. The steam systems work, are proven and are fool proof. No need to reinvent the wheel
>>65422873>>65423627A flywheel you can easily fix on the field with simple tools.If a capacitor gets damaged, you have to return to base and get a new one.Also flywheel functions as armor too.
>>65424747Not that tech, they use the same tech that has been proven over tens of thousands of launches on American carriers.
EMALS are gay, no smoke = not cool
>>65424751>A flywheel you can easily fix on the field with simple tools.You aren't fixing a flywheel with simple tools.
>Trump puts out memo >every single line of it actually fucking awesome and shit that most navy watchers think is long over-due >one (1) is mildly controversial >eternal spergout over one (1) of the many (good) points in the memo. I am beyond tired of dealing with brown people.
>>65424775>You aren't fixing a flywheel with simple tools.Yes you are.You can easily replace the bearing with simple tools.And then weld some stuff to balance the flywheel weight.That's all you need.
>>65422888It's tan, and it was arguably inappropriate for the content of his speech at the time. At leas Obama knew how to dress, unlike literally every tard in this admin.
>>65424799You're a midwit and/or poor. People pretending to be competent focus on clothing, people who get shit done just get shit done.
>>65424786It's a good memo. On the whole, I'm pleased with it, and I have confidence the whole steam cat thing will be quietly dropped once he leaves office.
>>65424807Lmao, triggered faggot.
>>65424811>and I have confidence the whole steam cat thing will be quietly dropped once he leaves office.Why? If steam is better, then it’s better and we should use it. One thing I genuinely like about the current admin is that they seem almost completely immune to institutional inertia.As someone in corporate America, that’s probably the thing I hate most about the Current Moment™. Someone declares [thing] “the future,” and suddenly everyone agrees [thing] is “the future,” because questioning [thing] might be Bad For Your Career. So [thing] becomes the future regardless of whether it’s actually better than what we were doing before.The Trump admin, for better or worse, literally does not give a fuck. They’re willing to question basically anything. I like that. If [thing] is actually good, it usually survives scrutiny. If it isn’t, it dies, as it should.I could write an entire manifesto about how what we’re seeing right now isn’t really a “populist” moment so much as a revolt of the C-suite class against the performance-fleece-wearing, MBA-having managerial class that spent the last 20 years turning every institution into a LinkedIn post, but holy fuck it’s Friday. Who cares.
>>65424817You're the one obsessing over clothes. Faggot.
>>65424822It isn’t better and the Ford design cannot accommodate it. This is something he got hung up on a decade ago when a new ship was having teething issues with a new system. Ford just spent over 300 days at sea, regularly engaging in combat and was having no issues launching planes. That is the best evidence you could ever ask for that the system as is works fine, that it functioned through one of the longest carrier deployments in history.
>>65424862Ford completing a 300+ day deployment and conducting sustained combat operations is strong evidence that EMALS is viable. It is not evidence that “the system as is works fine.” We don't know from the deployment length alone what its availability was, how many failures occurred, how much maintenance was required, or whether it constrained sortie generation. A system can accomplish the mission while still being substantially less reliable or more maintenance-intensive than the system it replaced. You need the actual reliability and sortie-generation data before making that claim.
>>65424872The Navy claims to have done a multi day sortie generation test during the deployment that showed the Ford achieving a higher rate than the Nimitz class. As for the other data I don’t believe they’ve made comments as regards the last deployment.
>>65424883>The Navy claims to have done a multi day sortie generation test during the deployment that showed the Ford achieving a higher rate than the Nimitz class.If this is true and correct, then there is nothing to worry about. Usually, when Trump is spazzing about something super niche, there is a reason. That reason is usually a someone.
>>65424872EMALS is substantially less maintenance-intensive than steam cats among some other nice properties. It's not yet as reliable as a steam cat, but the tech is still maturing and the Navy projects it will reach parity by the early 2030s, which is why I expect the reversion to steam to be dropped in a few years as they remain on target for that goal.
>>65424898>EMALS is substantially less maintenance-intensive than steam cats among some other nice properties.>It's not yet as reliable as a steam caThese are contradictory statements. > but the tech is still maturing and the Navy projects it will reach parity by the early 2030sSo, despite your protestations you concede that it is, in fact, inferior to Steam. Middle-management ass clown.
>>65424888Here’s the source on my statement. It’s apparently not quite public currently, but USNI generally has the inside line on these things. https://news.usni.org/2026/08/13/new-white-house-memo-calls-for-foreign-built-warships-return-to-steam-catapults-on-ford-carriers
>>65424901Easy to pick apart >four day not five/six/seven so on and so forth. If its good enough, it will survive scrutiny. If not, into the dumpster where it belongs.
>>65424826>in response to a post literally asking about the tan suit controversylmao, you're illiterate too.
What are the chances that they are afraid of sabotage/ECM EMP or some other electrical weapon being used on electromagnet launchers on their carriers that prevent them from launching planes?
>>65424903It was a fairly busy deployment, and after a certain duration that becomes more a test of the aircraft maintenance crews. In any event, there is no way to adapt the Ford design to use steam without multi billion dollar charges and years of delays, if it is even really possible while maintaining enough commonality to still call what’s built a Ford class
>>65424900There's no contradiction, the system's components are much easier to maintain than steam cats - mechanically simpler and without miles of steam piping. The remaining reliability issues with EMALS aren't maintenance issues but instead things like software bugs and operational workflows that are still being refined through experience.
>>65422876Tearing up TPP and TTIP was a foreign policy blunder second only to tearing up the JCPOA in Trump's first term.
>>65424942What’s the current EMAL reliability? >A January 2021 DOT&E Report stated: "During the 3,975 catapult launches [...] EMALS demonstrated an achieved reliability of 181 mean cycles between operational mission failure (MCBOMF) [...] This reliability is well below the requirement of 4,166 MCBOMF."[33] EMALS breaks down often and is not reliable, the Pentagon's director of testing Robert Behler reported after assessing 3,975 cycles on the USS Gerald R.Ford from November 2019 through September 2020.[34] >A FY2023 update stated that, "DOT&E observed EMALS reliability remained consistent with recent developmental test (460 MCBOMF in FY21 and 614 MCBOMF in FY22). Despite engineering upgrades to hardware and software, reliability has not appreciably changed from prior years and reliance on off-ship technical support remains a challenge."So it’s only 10% as reliable as it’s supposed to be. Trump probably was briefed that EMAL reliability was getting in his way of bombing Iran.
>>65424979>data coming up on half a decade old>data shows massive jumps in operational reliability every year
>>65424968oh anon thinks JCPOA actually slowed Iran's nuclear program
It won't amount to anything since POTUS doesn't create those design criteria and this term will be over before the next CVN is in the water. They're not going to halt work and start removing & replacing things.
>>65425005Yes. Parties as disparate as Russia, France, and the IAEA thought so. They only increased enrichment because the JCPOA allowed them to do so in case one party (the US) unilaterally broke the agreement to bring them back to the table.Iran was well within their rights to increase enrichment after Trump tore it up, and the case that it wasn't working is only made by the US and Israel.
>>65424979Note that the target of 4166 cycles between failures is greater than the reliability of steam catapults.
>>65424979>next gen tested using cutting edge tech as lead ship of the class>driving massive improvement in reliability>nah cause a bunch of downtime and expense by replacing with catobar that shortens airframe lifeTrump proven to be a fifth columnist actively attempting to degrade us military capabilities
>>654249120% you uneducated fucking moron
>>65424912You don't think an EMP that strong would do anything to the flightworthiness of the planes themselves?
>>65425027Okay, a hack then? Ching Chong's aboard the ship?
>>65425015>Iran was well within their rights to increase enrichment after TrumpThis was happening before Trump took office.
>>65425022You haven't given a shred of evidence that reliability improved.
>>65425050Says the US and Israel. Who are the reason this clause even existed.
>>65425022>nah cause a bunch of downtime and expense by replacing with catobar that shortens airframe lifeOh it's a retard who fell for WSJ's "tear out" headline.
>>65425046Imagining that all of the controls for the steam catapults are manually opened and closed valves, you don't think the infiltrator could just do the same thing with a wrench?
>>65425022It's not getting replaced, you retard, he wants to redesign future ships to return to steam catapults. And even that isn't going to end up happening, they'll fart around for a few years on design reviews and then quietly return to EMALS once he's out of office.And like the other guy said, it's not at parity for reliability yet, the Navy is targeting the 2030s for that benchmark.
>>65422109>2 shipsSo that's France, Italy, Britain, japan and south Korea for a total of...Carry the 6...10 ships. Ten.
>>65425145Since you need it dumbed down, lets say Hanwha wins a contract. They could build 2 ships in Korea and would have to build the rest in Philly.
>>654251452 per contracted shipbuilder, not 2 per nation. But you're probably in the ballpark, and having those 10 under construction in foreign yards would represent an immediate 25% boost to USN shipbuilding, which is pretty freaking good.Won't stop the Senators from shipbuilding states throwing an absolute shitfit over it, though.
>>65425022Brian Dunsheng See got out of the loony bin?
>>65425166Sorry I was assuming that they'd want to keep the number of bids down since each additional accepted bid is one more potential constellation class requirements vs design fuckery for the us Navy to trip over on>>65425156This makes more sense, it'd allow shipbuilders to pledge shipbuilding investment in America, break ground on ghost shipyards (heh), build the 2 ships in their home country then ask the navy "you want more ships or more waiting?
>>65424822Yeah this kind of mindset kinda falls flat when you consider how many general officers Hegseth has fired for not being spineless yes-men
>We need to have foreign shipyards to build our new ships because American shipbuilding is dead!Okay, what ships are they going to make?>I dunno, Burkes I guess?We already make those domestically, why do we need foreign shipyards?
>>65425191Because 2 per year ain't gonna cut it if you want to stay ahead of PLAAN and we need a short-term stopgap while domestic yards try to scale their capacity and train new workforces.
>>65425204>weNigger come on if you're gonna pretend to be an American, do you really think anyone is going to call it PLAAN instead of chinese navy?
>>65425204The PLAN is building so many ships because they're trying to catch up. If we had the ability to build 10 Burkes a month we wouldn't use it, because we don't need them.
>>65425211USN doesn't need 10 per month to maintain its lead, but it definitely needs more than 2 principal surface combatants per year hitting the water. Which, surprise, is why the administration is so keen to scale naval shipbuilding.The plan to boost capacity is a good one, why are you guys pissing yourselves over it?
>>65425217It's just bots from BIW, ignore them
>>65425211I can't believe I lived to see the day when the PLAN is being used as a distraction against the embarrassment in Hormuz.
>>65425220I just don't get why people go full retard whenever the topic of US shipbuilding comes up. Either they claim there's no problem, or they claim there's no solution, and both of those are obviously untrue.
Nuclear reactors work by boiling water to generate electricity. Surely it makes no sense to convert the steam to electricity for systems on the ship that can already be steam powered. Why add the extra step?
>>65424786So whats wrong about discussing said controversial take? Nobody is shitting on the rest of the memo, so what is the problem?
>>65425311A whole system of pipes filled with high pressure high temperature steam is a bitch to maintain compared to few electric cables.
>>65425349But you need a system of pipes filled with high pressure steam to generate the electricity in the first place.
>>65425311Steam pipes are a bitch: large, vulnerable, need time and take up space. Electric cables are far more handy and compact. Plus I strongly doubt that steam captapults using steam from the reatcor, they no doubt using electricity to heat up water closer to the launcher.
>>65425353Those are deep in the bowels of the ship.
>>65425311The reactor would have to be redesigned to allow the extraction of more steam, this in turn requires more water be desalinated as not to corrode the pipes, desalination is already at a premium aboard ships and would also require more electricity to desalinate the water, leaving less available for other systems, and finally it requires you to pipe steam throughout the ship, requiring more space and weight whereas an electrical system could just pull off the ships existing grid more or less. EMALS is just overall a much more efficient design
>>65421483How is it possible that a single retard can fuck up so much in a country which even if I don't like to admit it is/was basically the apex of the current world?I always thought the US and most other countries ran like hydras who would be able to function properly even with a retarded "head". Doesn't this mean that as soon as another big country elects their own trump we're going to face a nuclear war over some petty shit?
>>65425484He isn’t going to be able to do this, because it does function more or less like you think and Congress will never agree. Despite the dooming he has very little power there, they won’t even send the current NDAA to the Senate floor, let alone ever appropriate money for this nonsense he wants to do.
>>65425484USA stopped being the apex like 20 years ago. Now entire US economy hangs on tech corps with Taiwanese and Indian CEOs and 99% of production abroad.
>>65425211Dude USN is trying to get new corvette and frigate for decades and failing.
>>65425359EMALS also have no risk of serving you up steamed crewman when things go wrong. Pipes aside, the machine itself is just more dangerous to have in what's already a complex, dangerous environment on a flight deck. I'm sure the new solution has its own risks but there's no way they're worse than sticking a hot, high pressure system right there.
>>65421483Was the actual reason due to performance/cost/repair issues? Were they inferior to the older steam catapult?
>>65425730Who knows, might just be boomer mind going 'it worked fine in my time'
>>65425730Probably just him piercing through the dementia haze and his handlers finding it irrelevant enough to just let him do it.
>>65425761The concession is 20 million illegals get amnesty and children should be castrated?
>>65425730No, the reason is that Trump doesn't like it. He's been on a crusade against EMALS for over a decade.
>>65425825Yeah he said some shit about it being '''digital''' and he's a fucking boomer so he thinks you gotta stop all the downloadin'.
>>65425539It's a new corvette *or* frigate, and they succeeded after a fashion with the corvette. But that leads us back to >>65425191, and the fact that these problems were not the result of a lack of American shipyards. What good is all of the shipyard capacity in the world if we're canceling the contracts we give them as soon as they cut metal?
>>65422456Have you seen how fucking horribly his attempt to prop up the yen failed? It cratered back down within a day of buying it up because speculators didn't give a fuck.
>>65425311Imagine being this much of a retard.
>>65425311They don't boil sea water, they boil purified water that is then condensed and boiled again. A steam catapult involves boiling roughly a ton of water per launch, which is released into the atmosphere. It's far more energy intensive than just using some of the electricity that the reactor and turbines are generating anyway.
>>65421483>The U.S. Navy is considering redesigning future Ford-class aircraft carriers to better match President Trump’s preference for a WWII-era look.>The biggest proposed change is moving the carrier’s command “island” farther forward. This stupid boomer:https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2026/08/15/navy-weighs-major-warship-redesign-match-trumps-preferences/
>>65426072That's not a boomer, it's a carrier
>>65421483>POTUS has officially killed EMALS in future US Carriersimplessive bro's.....status?
>>65422109>American warships will be built overseasGrim
>>65422109This is literally the final coffin of US shipbuilding
>>65422109end of history bro's......what went wrong?
>>65426098>>65426106I'm lowkey impressed you figured out how to make a post while being this stupid, grugbros
>>65426116>Exporting America's naval production to 3rd parties is a good thing
>>65426111We're actually Sci-Fi now
>>65426122Not what's happening, but I sympathize that the structure of defense production is far beyond your grasp
>>65426098Well, nobody want to cut the Gordian knot of basically firing everyone and starting from scratch, given just how bad things are.
>>65426127implessive
>>65426086the status is that the OP is literally not true and chinkshills licking their chops are getting giddy about a fantasy.
>>65425730the reason is that it's not happening and the OP is lying lol. there's nothing "official" about it.
>>65426129It is, American warships will now be built overseas as per the picture.>>65426138The issue is let say America and China is going to war, and Korea is Americans preferred shipyard of choice. Unless they were attacked Korea would sit out the war and refuse to supply the US with ships. Japan would be better as they'd be much more likely to supply ships during wartime.
>>65426072>"Yes, Mr. President, we'll get right on that.">(Makes jerkoff motion with hand to subordinate)
>>65426171They're also right next to fucking China and would be getting pounded by missiles.
>>65426171An additional thought: a European yard would be good as it would be safe from China and they couldn't stop deliveries or damage production. But they would not be as cheap as Asia.
>>65426177China would prefer South Korea as a neutral party, not an enemy. They would only attack them if they were producing American ships or joined the war first, which appears unlikely from what I've seen.
>>65425761>Republicans have done everything in their power to ignore the fact that you have to actually cooperate and make concessions with the other sideThey learned that Democrats are addicted to being spit in the face, actually. Side-effect of both parties being owned by the same people.
>>65426072>>65426173>anonymous sources say Its not 2016 anymore, if you're still getting baited by this shit its not an IQ problem, its a chromosomal issue.
>>65426072>Trump’s preference, current and former officials said, is for the new aircraft carriers to look more like those that were in service during World War II...>The service is evaluating the feasibility of moving the multistory tower that acts as the carrier’s command center farther forward, toward the middle of the ship, to resemble older vessels, the officials said. The review, which has not been previously reported, is in response to Trump’s concerns about the “look” of the new Ford-class ships, where the island is near the rear, these people saidLMAO!
>>65426251>>anonymous sources say
>>65421502God damn.That's the best cope ive seen in years.
>>65426106On the contrary, it will revitalize American shipbuilding after all the failed programs the last 2 decades. Now foreign shipbuilders have an actual incentive to invest in American shipyards.
>>65426376>it will revitalize American shipbuilding after all the failed programs the last 2 decades.It won't.>Now foreign shipbuilders have an actual incentive to invest in American shipyards.They already have, Fincantieri Marinette Marine, Hanwha Philly Shipyard, Austal USA. The difference is now that they will be built abroad.
>>65426482>>Now foreign shipbuilders have an actual incentive to invest in American shipyards.>They already have, Fincantieri Marinette Marine, Hanwha Philly Shipyard, Austal USA. The difference is now that they will be built abroad.Shit like this is how I 100% know you're a shill. The new model is that foreign builders can win contracts and are allowed to build the first three of each class abroad *if* they build the rest domestically and train local workers and blah blah blah
>>65426062>far more energy intensive>*laughs in a4w*Believe it or not, a power plant designed to move a bigass ship rather quickly with steam, while making electricity for said ship with steam, all while flinging planes into the air with steam, can actually make large amounts of steam. The name of the game here is capacity and endurance, not efficiency. Efficiency is a non-factor. If your priority is efficiency, you don’t go nuclear in the first place.
>>65426482>The difference is now that they will be built abroad.Why do you keep lying about where they will be allowed to be built.
>>65426487>Shit like this is how I 100% know you're a shill.For telling the truth.>The new model is that foreign builders can win contracts and are allowed to build the first three of each class abroad *if* they build the rest domestically and train local workers and blah blah blahExactly, US ships will be built abroad. And this number will grow over the years.
Imagine if he adds ramps
>>65426499I'm not, read the thread >>65422109
LOL
>>65426558see >>65425156You are either retarded or a shill.
>>65426571Can you not read? It claims that American ships will be built abroad. Something you have been so fervently denying.
>>65422109I reckon european capacity will be more relevant here unless the US navy is interested in procuring a fleet of cargo vessels
>>65426620Anon where do you think almost all countries with no domestic shipbuilding industry get their warships and submarines from?
>>65426620>lmao hows that war against Russia going?>conscription in (insert euro country) when?
>>65421568Do you remember in ww1 when the generals kept telling the politicians that they just needed more shells and one more frontal assault against deeply entrenched positions to win the war?
>>65426599Are you ESL by chance, that would explain your inability to understand the context of your words.
>>65426620>lmao hows that war against Russia going?Very badly for Russia. Very well for Europe.
>>65422515The name originated in the US pilot community. The idea that its thirdies pushing it is beyond retarded.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMWnN_9GiX0
>>65426642No, but you seem to struggle with it. The text clearly states that US ships can be built abroad. Does this article help you?https://breakingdefense.com/2026/08/what-would-integrating-foreign-ships-into-the-us-fleet-look-like/
>>65426616>European>CapacitySomeone want to let this guy know what a shitshow European warship procurement is right now?>F126>Type 83>Dreadnought
>>65426662Compare it against the FDI, Type 31, FREMM. Not two cancelled classes, one of which have never cut steel, and a nuclear submarine programme that is struggling but still managing to export segments to the USN.
>>65421502dude this is a true story all over every major us industry
>>65421714>>65421717LOL I wonder what happened here
>>65426662Anon what does procurement have to do with shipbuilding capacity? Do you think that the US is no longer capable of building ships because the LCS and FFG(X) programs were failures?
>>65426685>Compare to Type 31>Which is based on a ship already in service and still half a decade overdue and half a billion over budgetYeah, okay, my faith in European shipbuilding capacity is restored. And it's a good thing canceled ship classes don't mean there's any sort of concerns for the industry, that means that the US shipbuilding industry must be in a much better position than this thread thinks.
>>65426712LCS wasn't a failure.
>>65426712I haven't been following massively but hasn't submarine production failed to reach projection and had to be revised down?
>>65426715It is a cheap well exported ship that is being produced at a fast pace. With orders coming from UK, Poland and Indonesia. I could have said the Type 26 as it seems to be quite the success, but I think a cheaper hull like the Type 31 would be closer to the FF(X) requirements.
>>65426728No one ever projected that production rate to be possible. It was ordered by presidential decree, in blatant disregard of reality.
>>65426781They did with the AUKUS deal in 2021 iirc.
>>65421483Gilded age returns.
>>65426800Did you think the US was going to be manufacturing the boats for AUKUS? The US was going to sell the Australians two used Virginia Block IVs and a new Block VII until Australian domestic SSN production comes online, but now the Australians have asked for three used Block IVs to reduce costs. The planned transfer dates are 2032, 2035, and 2038, and as far as I know nothing has happened to change those dates.
>>65426503>shill doubles down.
>>65426941Yeah, as I thought>Australia won’t receive Aukus nuclear submarines unless US doubles shipbuilding, admiral warnshttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/28/aukus-australia-nuclear-submarines-us-subs-navy-admiral
>>65426718AHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
>>65427168>Navy wants more submarines>Navy tells Congress to do something to make more submarines>Navy gives Congress a reason to do something about the submarine making problemThis doesn't mean that Australia won't receive their submarines. It might mean that Congress does something to magically bring submarine production up to the targeted level, but more likely it will mean that the Navy will just make do with fewer submarines than they want and three of what they have sold to Australia.
>>65427178Sure, the entire point was that sub production rate has been a large issue and was estimated to be higher by now. I remember reading about large amount of investments that have gone into production to increase the speed, but clearly that hasn't materialised yet. Maybe I dreamt that up but I do not think so. I do believe Australia will buy/rent American subs before they receive the AUKUS class.
>>65427168>Former prime minister Malcolm Turnbull says there is a ‘very, very high’ chance Virginia-class subs will never arrive under Australian controlyikes
>>65426712>>65426718>>65427176Everytime. A functional, coherent argument can not be made, just theatrics.
>>65421707>Why convert steam to electricityHow do you think all the systems are powered you mouth breather?
>>65427268>Guy who shilled for shitty overpriced frog subs has to cope by saying the real subs don't existThey do, though.
>>65427268>Former prime minister Malcolm TurnbullHe's constantly seething about it because he did that shit deal with France.
>>65426224Oh yeah because anyone would want to put their name out there with these purge-happy idiots running the show
>>65427274>>Why convert steam to electricity>How do you think all the systems are powered you mouth breather?This nigger doesn't know how nuclear boats work
>>65421502I bet there are mutts that seriously believe this, lol
