WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE GOA RULING:Ok, so, for everyone who is wondering about the whole NFA nonsense, let's cut the fuckin bullshit for a second and let me tell you you exactly where are at on this and what you can and cannot do.>DISCLAIMER!!!!!!THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE BY ANY MEANS AND I DO NOT CODONE YOU TAKING ANY ADVICE FROM THIS POST.>Who does the injunction cover?The plaintiffs in the case which are GOA members and associated parties, now or future. Wanna be covered by this? Join the GOA. It's 25 dolans.>Is it just for the 5th circuit or the district the court covers?No. It is nation wide.>Does state law still apply?YES. I cannot emphasize this enough. If you think you are all good to go, but you live in a state where the state law REQUIRES you file a form 1 or 4 for NFA items, YOU WILL GO TO FUCKING PRISON IF YOU DO NOT FILE THEM.>Can I now just make an sbr, sbs, or suppressor?The short answer is "Are you brave enough?". The long answer is, we don't know. According to the ruling, you should be fine to, but you never know what the ATF could pull out of their ass. It is recommended that you wait until we get official guidance from the ATF. Honestly, if you're gonna do it now, I doubt you will get your door kicked in and butthole fingered, but you should still keep it to yourself in the mean time if you DO decide to do it. Posting your brand new sbr all over Facebook does not bode well if the ATF puts out a statement saying you are still breaking the law if you have these items without the proper papers.>Can I now go and but an sbr, sbs, or suppressor from an FFL?Likely not. Most FFLs are not willing to take the risk right now until they get official guidance from the ATF. >Will this injunction cover other Americans as well?We don't know. It's gay as fuck to say that one American can own something another 3 houses down can't because they haven't paid their $25 a year fee, but it is what it is for right now.
>>65424220>When will we receive guidance from the ATF?There's a lawyer that contacted them and gave them the deadline of the 21st, but it's not like they actually have to do what he says. They could just play the quiet game, wait six months until thousands have gone about their business with their unregistered NFA items, and then promptly send in death squads to make examples of them.
Im rolling dice in SD. SBR are not mentioned in the controlled weapons sections.>inb4 I need it engraved and end up get my dog shot
>>65424220>We don't know. It's gay as fuck to say that one American can own something another 3 houses down can't because they haven't paid their $25 a year fee, but it is what it is for right now.The court said portions of the NFA are unconstitutional, I assume that that means that if the DOJ does not appeal, the NFA would need to be changedThe injunction allowing GOA et al to move forward now should only be a temporary measure until such time as the NFA is no longer in violation of the constitutionis my logic wrong?I also cant see ATF enforcing unconstitutional provisions of the NFA against non GOA members in the mean time
>>65424220>We don't know. It's gay as fuck to say that one American can own something another 3 houses down can't because they haven't paid their $25 a year fee, but it is what it is for right now.Yes we do. The court literally said that the NFA, as it is currently implemented, is unconstitutional and this ruling covers every US citizen like how every other court ruling affects every US citizen
>>65424220>>DISCLAIMER!!!!!!>THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE BY ANY MEANS AND I DO NOT CODONE YOU TAKING ANY ADVICE FROM THIS POST.you copied this from reddit didnt you
>>65424267That is not what the court said.What the court actually said is that it’s unconstitutional WHEN APPLIED TO THE PLAINTIFFS. Because that’s what the plaintiffs argued. Does that mean that the court would agree that it applies to everyone? Probably. But that would take a lawsuit with that particular argument before the court can make that decision. Is that stupid? Yes, but that’s lawyers for you.Also of note, it was not an appeals court that made this decision, so technically speaking it can’t be used as court precedent.
>>65424220>Most FFLs are not willing to take the risk right now until they get official guidance from the ATF.one of the local shops around me is selling cans with only a 4473. they announced it on their Facebook and Instagram.
>>65424349He copied it from every legal disclaimer that has ever been printed since lawyers became a thing.
>>65424220So- as a Georgia anon, if I want to SBS my Shockwave, I can just join the GOA, and buy a stock? No paperwork?While I’m asking this question- could someone tell me if I’d be better selling the memewave and getting a standard 590?I just want a general use shotgun, and if the world goes to crap, something for anti drones.
>>65424517You can join the GOA if their web server taking new memberships hasn't caught fire by now.
>>65424220I thought you just had to be a 'customer' of one of the qualified places.
Arizona ARS 13-3101>A. In this chapter, unless the context otherwise requires:>8. "Prohibited weapon":>(a) Includes the following:>(ii) A device that is designed, made or adapted to muffle the report of a firearm.HOWEVER>B. The items set forth in subsection A, paragraph 8, subdivision (a), items (i), (ii), (iii) and (iv) of this section do not include any firearms or devices that are possessed, manufactured or transferred in compliance with federal law.Looks like I will be joining the GOA. I should have done it anyway and I feel a little bit guilty that I didn't.
>>65424612>(iv) A rifle with a barrel length of less than sixteen inches, or shotgun with a barrel length of less than eighteen inches, or any firearm that is made from a rifle or shotgun and that, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.
>>65424264>the NFA would need to be changednope. It's pretty uncommon for laws judged unconstitutional to get rewritten, especially ones that are only subject to injunctive relief, which is what this decision was. The ATF and justice department were ordered not to enforce a bunch of sections that the judge decided were unconstitutional, but only ordered not to enforce them against the plaintiffs (due to a recent supreme court decision limiting lower court's i.e. Boasberg's ability to issue universal injunctions). That's part of the issue right now, the ATF is going through the laws marking the ones the judge specifically called out as unconstitutional, and trying to figure out all the implications of that for the plaintiffs, and what happens for firearms transferred between plaintiffs and non-plaintiffs (e.g. all those NFA items currently in the field and in FFL inventories), and the implications of all the other federal laws written with the NFA in mind. It's a real mess.Also congress is much more likely to fix this by raising the stamp tax to $1, which would render this judge's decision moot, though suppressors and SBRs and SBSs sold while the tax rate was $0 will probably not be affected by such a change.The ATF may well demand GOA's membership list (so they know who not to sue). If GOA tells them to fuck off then the ATF may well decide to enforce the NFA against everybody and let the accused prove their membership in a protected class as needed.
>>65424225Unfortunately by then we'll all be having suppressors and be invisible while they're struck with their loudeners
>>65424612>joining the GOAThat likely won't protect you from Arizona law. Your new silencer won't be manufactured, possessed, or transferred in compliance with federal law, since those federal laws you are in compliance with no longer apply to you. The federal backstop you were relying on just disappeared.
>>65424419>What the court actually said is that it’s unconstitutional WHEN APPLIED TO THE PLAINTIFFSThat's not what the court said. The court said it was unconstitutional, but due to the USSC's decision in Trump v CASA, it could only provide injunctive relief to the defendants, their members, and customers.Trump v CASA was the decision that stopped Hawaiian judges and Boasberg from those nationwide injunctions against everything Trump was trying to do.
>>65424628There's a principle in law that things have to be interpreted in a reasonable way.>in compliance with Federal lawclearly means not violating any Federal law. It does not mean you have to comply with a law that doesn't exist.
>>65424220>No. It is nation wide.You're literally retarded and should delete your post. Trump v Casa Inc. totally contradicts this statement. That's why the government isn't appealing. They don't have to.
>>65424678>Trump v CASA was the decision that stopped Hawaiian judges and Boasberg from those nationwide injunctions against everything Trump was trying to do.Well, specifically with his attempt to rewrite the 14th amendment, something which SCOTUS decided against him. Trump v CASA is bad case law specifically because it ensures that the government is encouraged to just not appeal a decision it loses and leaves a patchwork of legal framework that is completely incongruent. The fact that a court could decide that this is unconstitutional and yet still be applied to someone outside of that court's jurisdiction is, I think, a violation of the fundamental guiding principles of the constitution.
>>65425104it's nationwide for plaintiffs dumb nigger
>>65424517No, Georgia is a gay state, surprisingly
>>65424220i can find no fault with this, good job anon.
>>65424568customer as in buying one of the nfa items, not as in you bout some magazines four years ago. and they can't sell sbrs or sbses because those are still federally regulated under the gca.
>>65425104The plaintiffs getting injunctive relief are scattered across the entire USA, you utter retard. Or did you think all current and future GOA members only live in Texas?
>>65425151>asks question about stocking a shockwave>gets irrelevant reply about suppressors
>>65425491>SBS>List of NFA states
To my understanding, suppressors are still 4473 items in all 50 states. So the ATF has to approve them regardless. So why isn't everyone just shelling them as fast as they can?
>>65425713the state laws are varied, in some you need nfa registration to own sbses but not suppressors, florida for example. people were focused on cans so they went over the state laws with a fine toothed comb to make those lists, no one has done so for other nfa items yet.
>>65425717Because they have other legal form requirements and are waiting for atf guidance, as of yesterday the atf said treat it as business as usual so they aren't going to be selling them on 4473s.
>>65425093The federal law *does* exist though. The judge merely enjoined the ATF and Justice department from prosecuting violations of certain sections by certain classes of people/states/corporations. But the NFA in all its glory is still the law of the land. If you are in violation of those laws but protected from federal prosecution then Arizona is perfectly free to prosecute you for violations of those laws, because *they were not enjoined by the judge's decision*.
>>65424264>I also cant see ATF enforcing unconstitutional provisions of the NFA against non GOA members in the mean timeI can see them not changing a damn thing except that after you get dragged into court they will drop the case once you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are a member of one of the protected classes. That's all this injunction requires. It doesn't require them to change their policies at all,only that they can't prosecute covered classes for violating certain provisions of the NFA. If this has a chilling effect on form 4-less sales then from their standpoint so much the better.
>>65426213>Arizona is perfectly free to prosecute you for violations of those lawsShould be "Arizona is perfectly free to prosecute you for violations of their state laws that require compliance with federal law"
>>65425713my state is on the list of free states. SBSs are banned here unless they're C&R.
>>65424225>and then promptly send in death squads to make examples of them.First, how would they know? Second, the more that are out there the more Bruen applies.
>>65424242I’m doing the same in IA. Jokes on them my dog is already gone.
>>65426229ATF can just scratch and claw and hold on to what's still enforceable. Justice Department is letting it die, intentionally neglecting to appeal
Apparently, this only applies to people who are BOTH a member of GOA and are SBR/SBSing a a pistol or rifle that THEY BOUGHT FROM Palmetto State Armory exclusively for the time being.On the bright side, it applies to stripped PSA lowers, which are fairly cheap.GOD BLESS AMERICA
>>65426372no. PSA is lying about that to make money.
>>65426375PSA was party to the lawsuit like GOA, it applies to GOA members AND firearms bought from PSA. As the ruling is now these conditions must be met Simultaneously unfortunately. That is likely to change in the future, but as of today you need to be BOTH a GOA member and the firearm in question must have been bought form PSA, but it does not necessarily have to have been manufactured by PSA. Save your receipts.
>>65426372that is false.
>>65426402Cite a source that isn't a psa promotion.
>>65426402is anyone other than PSA saying that? because last I checked, it's only them. the GOA hasn't said anything about it, none of the other plaintiffs are saying it, no one.
>>65426375>>65426407Please provide a link to the ruling that clarifies that the firearm doesn't have to have been bought from PSA
>>65426413please provide a link to the ruling that says it has to be
If you HAVE to be a PSA customer to gain benefits why wouldnt B&T be saying you HAVE to be their customer too? B&T is also a plaintiff, why would PSA customers have anything to do with them. How would B&T have access to PSA customer records? Why does B&T have none of these conditions that miraculously befall on PSA despite being members of the same case?
>>65426375>>65426407>>65426410>>65426412>>65426417Anon who posted the bunker hill portrait here. I did some digging, and I was MISTAKEN. This is so much better than I thought it was. Also, fuck PSA I guess?
>>65424625It looks like GOA has realized the bind the FFLs are in and has created a corporate membership class. Before this only individuals could join, so only individuals could be in their protected class. Now gun shops can be protected as well.>Inb4 obvious money grubbing attemptWell, yes. But also neatly solves the legal conundrum for FFLs wanting to sell suppressors. Selling SBRs and SBSs still has the form 4 requirement for now due to the '68 GCA, but this helps them with suppresor sales, esp sales of suppressors that are in their inventory as NFA registered items.
>>65426413Here ya go, the judge's final ruling on the casehttps://shared.nrapvf.org/sharedmedia/1512215/2026-jensen-137-final-judgment.pdf
>>65426265How would that work? If you're a member of one of those protected classes then you ARE in compliance with Federal law.
>>65426375The more charitable interpretation is they want to make sure you're covered as many ways as possible in case the ATF tries to get creative under the next president. Not sure I blame them.
>>65426775No you aren't, the ATF has been ordered by this judge not to prosecute you for those violations of the federal law. But you are absolutely in violation of the law. You just have a "get out of jail free" card - but only for violations of those specific laws mentioned in the final judgment in the case, which does not include other related federal laws (e.g. the GCA of '68) or state laws.
>>65426793well that's convoluted
>>65429255Not really. If you're familiar with the legal concept of "defense to prosecution" that's basically what the Judge has created here. membership in one of those protected classes is basically a defense to prosecution for violations of those sections of federal law he listed in his Final Judgement.If you're not familiar with the concept, "Self Defense" in the US is a defense to prosecution for murder. If you killed a guy in self defense the guy is absolutely dead, and you killed him, but if you can prove that you killed him in self defense then you get away with the murder. You cannot assert Self Defense without admitting to the murder under oath (see the Kyle Rittenhouse trial for an example); at that point the trial shifts to the question of self defense and that must be *proved* by the *defense*, the legal concept of "innocent until proven guilty" does not apply because you have already admitted guilt.The same thing is true here about NFA violations. If they're feeling spicy, the feds can absolutely drag you into court and put you on trial for your non-NFA-compliant firearm, and it will be up to your defense team to prove that you were a GOA member at the time the offense was committed (and probably for the entire time since then that the non-compliant firearm was in your possession, so a lifetime GOA membership is not a bad bit of insurance).Not trying to be a buzzkill, but the judge's order gives the ATF a lot of legal room to be dicks about this whole thing if they want to.
>>65424220Kinda out of date, some based FFLs have already been acting under the injunction and individual locations have moved HUNDREDS of suppressors a day.
>>65429536OP here. At the time of making this post, I hadn't really heard anything about FFLs doing transfers yet. So, you are correct. Some are now doing transfers. However, PLEASE KEEP IN MIND that local laws do apply. I live in Mississippi and for some fucking reason form 4s are required for transfers, so suppressors, sbrs, sbss are unable to be transferred in my state without it, but I can still manufacture them without filing a form 1. I can slap a stock on a 10.5 AR all day long, but I can't transfer it without a form 4. That is why no FFLs in Mississippi are selling these nfa items on just regular 4473s for now. Retarded, I know.>Anyways, to make a long story fuckin simpleYou are correct.
>>65429536Some FFLs are corporate members of the protected classes, e.g. corporate membership in the GOA or one of the other plaintiff organizations. Presumably this sort of thing will widen as word gets out how to legally fuck the ATF.
>>65430026The form 4 requirement for transferring a SBR or SBS is still in effect at the federal level, since that requirement comes from the 1968 GCA which was not in play in this court case (transferring an SBS requires approval by the US Attorney General which is currently done by a form 4). Note however that making an SBR for yourself does *not* require form 4 approval by the Attorney General, however it does still fall under the engraving requirements. Making an SBS for yourself does still require form 4 Attorney General approval.It's all a bit of a mess. It would be better if the ATF appeals this ruling and forces it higher up the court chain where better remedies can be applied.
>>65430168Ideally, Congress would end this farce and just repeal both statutes. Or at least the NFA.But of course, no (or very few) Democrats would vote for that because muh salt webbuns, and many Republicans wouldn't do it either because muh thin blue line. And it would require Congress to be something other than second fiddle to the branch that actually matters.
>>65430194>no (or very few) Democrats would vote for thatI hate to tell you this, but no (or very few) Republicans would vote for that either.
>>65430168The Attorney General could just come out and say he’ll accept Form 4473 for transfers instead of Form 4.>>65430194Gun control is a dead issue and the NFA process was rendered obsolete by NICS anyway. The original point of the NFA was to make it so burdensome to obtain those regulated items that almost no one would bother doing it. That is no longer the case so there’s no reason to keep the NFA around. The cat’s out of the bag now and most ATF agents probably don’t actually care about keeping SBRs and silencers regulated since it’s not a real crime anyway.
>>65430249>The Attorney General couldHe could. But he hasn't, nor does he have any reason to do so.
Has the GOA now completely surpassed the NRA as the main pro-gun organization in this country? I see the NRA was a plaintiff, but nobody is even discussing them at this point. How relevant even are they in 2026?
>>65430261His wife’s family owns Check-Mate (1911 magazine company) so he should be at least somewhat sympathetic to the concerns of the firearm industry.
>>65430272Before they even filed their first lawsuit. The NRA would like you to forget, but they were a major supporter of both the NFA and GCA.
>>65430311Sympathy isn't really transitive though. I've got family that are gay, but that doesn't mean I support faggotry.
PSA Columbia SC: on the first half day of sales (Thursday night) they sold more suppressors than they sold ALL items on Black Friday.
>>65430226I implore you to finish reading the post you're replying to before you respond next time, anon.>>65430249Everything you say is true, but legislatures are particularly susceptible to inertia. That makes it hard to repeal statutes, even ones that should have gone away decades ago because they no longer serve their purpose or are redundant. This is a good second step to pushing them to repealing it entirely, but I don't have a good enough feel for the winds of federal firearms politics to say whether Congress is ready to take the big step yet.
>>65430272The NRA got gutted in its internal fights and dealing with all that bullshit up in New York a few years ago. But it's also been losing ground to the GOA for years, because it was more interested in protecting what we had, rather than taking back what we lost. It was more cautious institution, which in the current environment makes their leadership look foolish.>>65430338The irony is that the NRA that supported the NFA and GCA ceased to exist in the '70s, but certain people never got over it. No matter what the group did, no matter how far that go to be in the past, it was never let go.
>>65430435in hindsight the entire lapierre tenure was about fleecing gun owners, they have been getting better though.
>>65430435>pretending Wayne LaPierre didn't existIt didn't though, the NRA simply pretended so they could more effectively fleece the rubes.
>>65430453To their credit, the NRA did fight to get the sunset provision written into the Clinton AWB.
>>65430466they also don't get the credit they deserve for bruen. but god damn they should have been filing lawsuits not buying new suits.
>>65430453>>65430465That was what I was referring to as "internal fights." I apologize for being insufficiently clear, I could have looked that up and been more specific, I was just too lazy to do so.The revelations should not have been surprising. It happens to others focused on advocacy too, like the SPLC or Al Sharpton. If you actually fix the problem you raise money about, the money stops coming and you stop getting to be famous and wealthy. So it becomes worthwhile to be noisy yet ineffective, creating the occasional teapot tempest to show the donors you're looking out for them, without solving the problems you exist to solve. Politics by another name.
>>65424628The Maricopa county Sheriff was the first one to buy a can at Scottsdale Gun Club yesterday without a form 4. I give no fucks.
>>65430600You're probably good then. As long as he's the sheriff, anyway.
>>65426293>First, how would they know?Forward Trace
It seems like in Florida as long as I’m a GOA member I’m free to put a foregrip on my Stribog if I wanted since we don’t have a separate form 1, sure don’t like that I’d have to be a member of any organization to do thatStill wouldn’t do it and take it to the range yet though
>>65426293>First, how would they know?Flock cameras.
>>65430623but what I wanna know is where's the caveman
>>65431446There are niggers shooting FRTs at the state public ranges rn and here's your bitch ass
>>65431461FRTs aren’t illegal to own
>>65431462They're """illegal""" in Florida but they're everywhere and no one seems to give a fuck. There's been one arrest total and it was some out of state guy selling them at a gun show while telling people they weren't legal to install *wink* or some similar barracks lawyer bullshit. You can hear them all the time out in the country or at any shooting range that isn't boomerville.
>>65431469They’re not illegal, you can buy them online and have them shipped here, the gray area exists because of bump stocks and anything that would alter rate of fire but FRTs are not explicitly illegal and nobody will ever give you shit for it at any normal range. Maybe an indoor range with a fuddy RSO but you won’t face legal trouble for it
>>65431501The law says "rate increasing devices" which, if an FRT is anything I'd say it's that. However it'd probably be struck down in court for being overly vague. GEE GOVERNOR DESHABBOS MAYBE YOU SHOULD ACTUALLY SUPPORT THE 2A
>>65431446sbrs are tired to nfa registration under florida state law, would that be counting as an aow? i'm not sure where state law lands on those. >>65431511>SHOULD ACTUALLY SUPPORT THE 2Apermitless carry has been pretty good
If GOA were really pro-2A they would drop their membership fee to $0. Make the ATF eat a giant shit sandwich
>>65431937It’d be an AOW and AOWs are not restricted under Florida law, it was designed as a pistol and sold as a pistol so adding a foregrip alone doesn’t make it an SBR, that would require a stock but unless I feel like spending $300 on anything decent I’m not gonna have a stock for a while anyway
>>65426293>the more that are out thereOtter Creek Labs, one single company, shipped over 50k suppressors last year. Tasers were ruled protected at ~250k. Suppressors are plainly common now, the only reason people don't think so is because they're not allowed to know so
>>65431959Or they just take the money and win the next case too
>>65431959Taking the feds to court isn't free, anon.
>>65431959>$0 tax isnt a tax >ergo $0 membership isnt a membershipNever doubt a lawyer
>>65431959$10 for fpc action, doesn't get aow coverage but it's a flat $10 a year, i guess i'll get junk mail from them like goa now but it's just that much more protection for the cost of a cheap mag. https://secure.fpcactionfoundation.org/membership
So what was the big news dropped by the ATF today?
>>65432044>I’m not gonna have a stock for a while anywayI can't even put into words how pathetic it is you don't have a stock already for if something like this happened/if shit kicked off. Really cuckplying hard, aren't we?
https://x.com/thejusticedept/status/2089400261399769360
>>65433095Bros, what's happening? Are we winning?
>>65430249>Gun control is a dead issueNah it’s still part of Dem campaigns. Just look at Texas’s Dem senate candidate
>>65424452I hope it works out for them, but there's a legitimate possibility they'll get fucked.
>>65433180aaaaaaaaaa i cant watch it without making a twitter and im not making a twitter what does he say?
>>65433275A path forward for felons getting their gun rights back, not an issue I currently care about, but I guess you can get jammed up even if you didn't do anything wrong.
>>65425491>>65424517holy shit what a cucked state
>>65424517I'll save you the trouble of contacting a lawyer local to your area, something you should be doing rather than asking anon on a pakistani figurine painting forum. A competent attorney would tell you to not violate the nfa, even if you are a member of every plaintiff organization, even you were told by James Hendricks himself that you were good to go. Even if it were legal under state law it would not be worth the vaguest risk of a felony just to put a stock on your shotgun right now.
>>65433438>it would not be worth the vaguest risk of a felony just to put a stock on your shotgun right nowThe founding fathers would've spit on you, fucking hobbyist. The guys lined up outside the FFLs selling cans right now are doing 1000x more for the 2nd amendment than you ever will.
>>65432955It’s not a legal issue it’s an issue of paying $300 for something that functions virtually identically to my brace, the haga defense stocks are like $350, mp5 style are somewhere in the 200s, the wood one I like from a3 is $300
>>65430466The NRA also helped fund the Jensen case that was rolled up into the Silencer Shop case. They weren't a plaintiff in that case but the TSRA was. Plaintiffs in the Jensen case got additional injunctions for the engraving/serialization sections of the NFA that the Silencer Shop plaintiffs did not get.
>ordered a factory SBR last week after the ruling>ships to my local FFL today>still no guidance from ATF or Attorney General so I will still have to file a Form 4 on my single-person trust instead of Form 4473>current median eform trust Form 4 wait time is 33 daysReeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
>>65433197?
>>65424220So Form 1, namely for SBR, I need to be GOA to bypass filing and TSRA member to bypass engraving?
>>65434183Should also mention my state does not care about SBR so on that level I'm already clear. Just need to understand group memberships and their benefits.
>>65434183TSRA covers both. Basically the Jensen case challenged all the statutes implicated by the $0 tax (Silencers, SBRs, SBSs, AOWs), whereas the Silencer Shop case only challenged the silencer-related ones. The Jensen plaintiffs lost the AOW argument (couldn't show actual harm) but won on everything else.
>>65434551I think the reason everybody's fixated on GOA membership is because they're a national org whereas TSRA is a Texas one. Also most of the discussion about this seems to be hyper-fixated on silencers because the main case was the silencer one, the Jensen case was rolled into the silencer case partway through and became kind of a side note. But the Jensen plaintiffs won even harder than the silencer guys did.Also CCRKBA was also a Jensen plaintiff and they're nationwide organization anybody can join.
>>65434562>Also CCRKBA was also a Jensen plaintiff and they're nationwide organization anybody can join.Wait, they cover engraving?
>>65434597sort ofhttps://youtu.be/Z1VFzvfmmEU?t=796
>>65434597Yes. The Silencer Shop case only challenged the silencer-related sections of the NFA that were implicated by the $0 tax. The Jensen case that got rolled up into the Silencer Shop case had challenged all of those, as well as the other sections of the NFA related to the $0 tax on SBSs and SBRs (and AOWs, but they lost on that one due to not being able to show actual harm)here's the final judgement in the case:https://shared.nrapvf.org/sharedmedia/1512215/2026-jensen-137-final-judgment.pdfThe 60-some-odd-page opinion is just that, the opinion of the Judge. The Final Judgement is the document where he actually gives orders to the Justice Department and the ATF "the Court permanently enjoins the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,Firearms and Explosives, the United States Department of Justice, Todd Blanche in hisofficial capacity, Robert Cekada in his official capacity, their divisions, bureaus, agents, officers, commissioners, employees, and anyone acting in concert or participation with them, including their successors in office, from enforcing the challenged provisions of the National Firearms Act as to untaxed firearms &c".To the extent that there's debate over the two marking statutes being enjoined, it's the same sort of debate as is going on about the form 4 stuff, which is "what will the ATF do in response to this order".
>>65434044Unironically find a store that'll do it as a 4473 and then tell your current gunstore they aren't getting your business because they aren't pro2A enough.
>>65424220Need James to make a video
https://x.com/gunowners/status/2089811225974653333
>>65426278Just saw off some old piece of shit thats 50+ years old
GOA interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3e-qjrIXVY
https://www.ammoland.com/2026/08/ffls-pass-atf-inspections-after-transferring-suppressors-on-form-4473/
>>65432090Tasers were used as an example of being protected at 20k under Caetano.For whatever it's worth, something like a decade ago there were over 250k registered full-auto firearms in the US according to the GayTF.
>>65443316So based anon. "It's all a trick" cuckolds btfo yet again. Don't worry though they'll still continue>No guys its a trick to put out tons of them so they can arrest 1,000,000 people at the same time for buying a can from the store.
>>65425489>The plaintiffs getting injunctive relief are scattered across the entire USA,Too bad for them, lmao. If they get prosecuted under the NFA, they're not going to land in this court and this injunction literally does not apply because it's outside its jurisdiction.
>>65443987>this injunction literally does not apply because it's outside its jurisdictionTroll or room temp IQ? I think troll based on this exact same wording appearing repeatedly after repeatedly being disproven. Look here, tard >>65443316
official guidance any day now right?
>>65424220If we do take legal advice from you are we stealing?
>>65424220Ive heard a few ballsy motherfuckers here in IL "form 1" SBRs now under the theory as long as they have their C&R still its ok. I wish them luck.
>>65424625Well the issue is we had a similar issue when the bump stock ban got reversed. ATF & DOJ was told to pound sand and that they could not get member lists through court action but would also suffer penalties if they enforced the ban against a member.
>>65446557Not gonna happen until they can appeal it under less gun friendly legislators and judiciary
Armed Attorneys don't agree with me that Jensen plaintiff group members still need to follow the nfa provisions for marking at makinghttps://youtu.be/zCxwfRXa6Js?t=69Guy with the box of washers is vindicated.
>>65450633They already said they have no plans to appeal it, like weeks ago
>>65452340Some guntuber said he had contacts in doj that told him they we planning to appeal it, rep Clyde said his sources claimed they wouldn't. I trust Clyde, but not anyone at doj and I don't think it's a done deal yet. Some more court time might be to our benefit shoring up the decision.
>>65452223How about that, I was right that you're a cuckold and shouldn't be advising people not to make NFA shit however they want to. Can't help but notice your bitch ass didn't credit me, TavorChad. Maybe go back to pleddit where you belong? /k/ was always for edgy people, not people begging for one last lick on the boot before it gets thrown away.
>>65452510So FPCA and GOA to go hog wild with manufacturing NFA items? Or just FPCA?>still gonna donate to both because they did us good
Man, I do not get why these cans are worth all the trouble. Just get better ear pro
>>65452561This, I don't give a shit about suppressors, it's the SBR AOW SBS stuff that will actually be fun especially for cold war lovers
>>65452561>>65452897Have you ever shot a suppressor? It just makes the gun more pleasant to shoot in basically every way. Also good for not bothering your neighbors if you're shooting a lot.
>>65452924Yes I have, my buddy has 3 guns with suppressors and I just wasn't that impressed. Unless you're shooting expensive subsonic ammo it's still not hearing safe so what's the point? Not bothering your neighbors is the only really good thing.
>>65452897Spy guns? They all look pretty uncomfortable to shoot, but it would make for a good collection.
>>65452944Get a 10/22. Get CCI subs. Be amazed at how quiet it is and how loud impacts are. Bonus if you SBR it. You get full velocity down to like a 12" barrel.
Um, bros? My local gun store just posted this to their IG page. Are they bullshitting to cover their own asses or can any anons with FFLs confirm?
>>65454716injunction is still in effect, but it is looking like they will appeal, which isn't to say they'll win. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cufw3lPuBCM
>>65454763Appealing at this point makes no sense and would be political suicide for the shartpublicans in the midterms. Not saying they won’t do it as the Feds are retarded cocksuckers but still. I don’t understand their angle. The NFA registry fr silencers, SBRs, and SBSes is pointless now as potentially thousands have already been “manufactured” off the books in good faith over the past couple of weeks during the injunction which is effectively the law of the land right now.
>>65454781They may be trying to settle the law before leftists manage to reinstate the tax invalidating the injunction, it might be a deep state hissyfit, who knows? There are other lawsuits on 2nd amendment grounds aimed at the nfa, this was a great first blow against it and everyone seemed pretty surprised they won.
>>65454830I'm hoping for this, force it to SCOTUS and then dont argue it
https://rumble.com/v7ep09c-ffl-dealers-we-need-you-for-phase-2-nfa-update-palmetto-state-armory.html
>>65424225ATF needs to be disbanded, all pensions and benefits reneged with no appeal, and all employees placed on a permanent government employee blackball.I'd also opine that they should have some sort of Judas mark branded on their forehead, but I want to be moderate.
>>65456577You are now aware that the Court has the power to appoint an attorney to argue in defense of the law if the government refuses to do so.
>>65424220So the ATF just got ransomware'd while all this is going on too.www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjJGI4SpH3k
>>65457475Your link is broken, anon.
>>65457475>>65457582https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjJGI4SpH3k
>>65424220
>>65457342Which Court would have authority over that decision?
>>65431451Rare Skooks reference in 2026 Anno Domini.
>>65430435>which in the current environment makes their leadership weak.ftfy
>>65460745The Supreme Court, if it comes before it. Below is a link to an article from the American Constitution Society which explains the practice in greater detail, and questions its worth and legality.https://www.acslaw.org/issue_brief/briefs-landing/to-decide-or-not-to-decide-that-is-the-question/
>Director Cikada UPDATE>Jensen v. ATFFACTS> CLICKBAIT.There's a lot of misinformation circulating about the recent NDTX ruling in Jensen v. ATF; including a headline claiming, "ATF is Furious and We Are Planning Brutal Revenge on Gun Owners."The source? You guessed it: unnamed anonymous sources. It's completely FALSE. **More importantly - ATF respects the Court's ruling and the rule of law. We are following the order and will not take enforcement action against protected parties inconsistent with that ruling. We are working diligently on clear guidance. Getting it RIGHT matters more than getting it out fast. That means carefully navigating federal and state laws so that manufacturers, FFLs, and law-abiding gun owners aren't left with legal problems - today or under a future administration. Thank you for your patience as we focus on developing the guidance. It will be posted online as soon as we are done. The American public and the 2A community deserve facts NOT clickbait.
>>65463109I find it weird they are giving zero guidance despite okaying several uses already. They can issue guidance on the different processes separately. It seems cans are good to go for some, why? The ATF knows why but they wont openly say to let more stores participate.
>>65424220GOA is like an association or a club right? (Not American) If they can do it, then is there anything stopping other people from just forming their own association, pooling their money and hiring a lawyer to get their own group specific ruling?If I were a lawyer I would argue that the change ought to apply to everyone simply to stem the tide of potential lawsuits
>>65463264>then is there anything stopping other people from just forming their own association, pooling their money and hiring a lawyer to get their own group specific ruling?nothing is stopping that, but you can just join one of the current groups. the law is shifting currently, very recently a district court judge could apply nationwide injunctions, and that's reasonable, if a law is unjust for one person it's unjust for everyone. however activist justices were heavily abusing that to legislate from the bench and the court system is so slow their decrees could hold effect for decades. the system for this will certainly evolve, my expectation was that it would cover members at the time of judgement, but it turned out quite well for this decision.
>>65463109>>65463125> It's completely FALSE. i'm sure there are members of the atf just itching to shoot someone who's barrel is a half inch too short and a member of the fpc instead of the fpc action foundation. the people who arrested jordan derrick and steamrolled tate adiemiak are still employed there, while it might not be the top down opinion there can't not be different factions inside the atf.
>>65464997*fbi got dugan
>>65464997Does the > mean "regarding" or "greater than" in this context?
>>65466288I can't be sure, but it sure looks like it's doing both. "Regarding" in its first use, then "greater than" in its second.
>>65452223They themselves constantly say you get two lawyers and you'll have three opinions, they didn't read the law thoroughly. John Crump, Jared Yanis, and Fuddbusters are telling you markings are required at this time if you listen to guntubers.
>>65466472funny that the post about delayed clarification and guidance from the ATF is poorly written and also requires clarification
ATF case files leaked https://x.com/gunowners/status/2094533619058450881
>>65470991>ATF gets defanged >now a national security riskRolling for disbanding
>>65470991available anywhere? or do i need to fire up a tor browser and hit the dark web?
>>65471169I'm looking but the news about the publishing is drowning out anyone actually linking the data
>>65431501FRT are one ruling away from being made illegal if the reset force exceeds the force required to pull the trigger.Example:1) FRT with 2 lb trigger and 5lb reset, on a 4lb firearm2) balance firearm on dowel rod3) 4lb weight of firearm pulls 2lb trigger, and weapon fires4) FRT resets trigger with 5lb5) go to #3
>>65457101>ATF needs to be disbandedArrest authority...or at least arrest enforcement needs to be unified into a single agency. There's no need for FBI, ATF, IRS, USPS, NSA, Marshals and more to all have police and swat teams. One federal police enforcement that the agencies request from.Also ridiculous that ATF would shoot your dog over taxes and paperwork, and why does the ATF do taxes investigations and enforcement when the IRS exists?
>>65471481they are inherently unconstitutional, it's gun(and tobacco and alcohol) control using tax law as a loophole. the feds aren't supposed to have any such policing powers, but they stretched their taxing authority to the limit and then threatened to stuff the supreme court until their commerce power was taken past the limit into covering literally everything.
>>65424220So the ATF director just posted on Xitter that they will be respecting the courts ruling and will not be taking enforcement action against members of the protected parties. Does this mean I can slap a 10.3in upper on to my rifle and convert it to an SBR without a form 1? The lower doesn't need to be a PSA lower does it?
>>65471632Fuck forgot l8nkhttps://x.com/ATFDirectorRC/status/2093499293055307794
>>65471468That's just a bump stock with extra steps, and those are legal.
>>65471481ATF handles certain tax matters because it used to be part of Treasury. It was the arm of Treasury assigned to what you might think; while the IRS was and is strictly confined to matters pertaining to the Internal Revenue Code. Tax enforcement is really weird, due to its application across so many areas that the feds are now involved in. Tariff enforcement, for example, is a CBP matter, which is now resides in Homeland Security, but I believe its predecessor agencies (at least on tariffs) could be found in Interior or Commerce in prior eras.As to the reason we need so many damn agencies: the justification is focusing on a particular area of law. Thus, they have their own police forces which are mostly investigators specialized in the nuances of their niches. However, these all do double duty as jobs programs, ensuring many loyal voters as long as you keep them employed.The NSA is a weird one. I hadn't previously been aware that the NSA had police, but they sure do. You would think they'd be fine with MPs, but then again DIA also apparently has its own cops. Makes you wonder if the CIA does too. As to why? My guess is security clearance concerns. Spooks want their own guys, because they won't trust anyone else.
>>65471541Ackshually, the expansion of the Taxing Power and the Interstate Commerce Clause came contemporaneously, thanks to FDR (may he rest in piss).
>>65471632the exact details of what they plan on enforcing are still forthcoming, there is still debate over the necessity of still following the marking requirements at making, there might be other things they have issues with.
>>65471681did it? i though they came up with that for drugs first.
>>65471693Both the Taxing Power and the Commerce Clause started to see some extended reach as the Gilded Age gave way to the Progressive Era. The increasingly-popular belief in that era that all governments, including the feds, had a duty to keep people safe from harmful products of all sorts led to the Court coming around on that, meaning regulations on tobacco, alcohol, drugs, and lottery tickets were okay whether regulated indirectly via taxes or directly via commerce power. But the Court was still defensive of business and the freedom to contract, so federal attempts to quash things like child labor got struck down despite attempts to regulate under both powers. The restraints came off in the late 30s after FDR cowed the Court. Note that your pic is 1937, which, ironically, is the same year the Court ruled the NFA was a lawful tax on dealers, importers, and manufacturers. The Court wouldn't actually expressly approve the pot tax until 1950. Your high-water mark in the commerce clause comes in '42.
https://oversight.house.gov/roundtable/suppressing-the-second-amendment-examining-dojs-posture-toward-firearm-suppressors/
>>65424220HE KNEW
>>65477997I don't know what's funnier, the fact the guy was right, or that you had the foresight to screencap it because reading his post he sounds like a fucking schizo. Turns out, the government has no schizo defense, so they lost.
>>65424220>THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE BY ANY MEANS AND I DO NOT CODONE YOU TAKING ANY ADVICE FROM THIS POST.Because that would be stealing, right? Matt Hoover?
>>65471169John Crump grabbed a few gig before they pulled it, so there must be some copies out there.
President Trump has signed pardons for the following gun owners, convicted of unconstitutional "crimes" under the National Firearms Act:- Patrick "Tate" Adamiak- George Peterson- Jeremy Kettler- Shane Cox
Can I throw an 11.5 inch upper on my shit yet or not?
This is annoying as fuck how pretty much nothing has changed. We got to see some faggots do photo ops and that’s about it
>>65483840You are mentally enslaved
>>65483848Not true
>>65483840Stfu pussy you deserve nothing>>65483962Based understander
>>65483962>>65486409So you fellows have unregistered machine guns and all the home made rocket propelled explosives you desire? You aren't just so free that you have your barrels a little shorter than previously required now that a district court has given you permission right? Now I'm not a fed, I wouldn't want you to incriminate yourselves, I'll take your non answer as an affirmative that you're based boys and not just tough guys on the internet.
>>65488234I'm the guy with the day one SBR'd Tavor, fuckwad. >>65452510 I posted it on /k/ on August 13th if you feel like finding the thread.The only reason it actually got done on the first day it was legal is because that was the day the barrel wrench happened to show up. Do not project your jelly spine onto everyone else you pathetic coward. You and every other Ribbitor has a sickening habit of pretending everyone is a compliance cuck like yourself to reduce the shame of having no fucking balls. Do you want to see more cool shit or is it gonna make your pussy hurt to be reminded how weak you are compared to your peers?
>>65488234You are mentally enslaved nothing outside of yourself changes that fact.
>>65489587>The only reason it actually got done on the first day it was legal is because that was the day the barrel wrench happened to show up
>>65490709
>>65491149how did you attack that flashlight?
>>65491454New model of upper with a welded on picatinny rail. You can find it on the VZ61 parts sites. And it's actually a Holosun IR laser for my NVGs. It would be wearing it's homemade can but Angstadt has been taking months to restock their tri lug flash hiders. I couldn't get my original off the previous upper.
>>65424220Suppressors are still illegal in my home state of NY. It would take a whole separate case just to fight for this ruling.
>>65483840do it faggot
>>65491761yes, but suppressors flooding all the free states will make that fight much easier when the time comes
BROWN V. ATF just made headway in Missouri, another case against suppressor regulation.
still no update on sbr?
>>65498244updates and guidance from the ATF would lead to too much freedom, maybe if they delay until after midterms and Dems over perform, they can raise the tax to $5k and continue registrations
>>65498332Um, you're really weird.
>>65498513you can't have my guns "Sarah"
>>65498244
>>65488234Eat shit and die, bootlicker.
>>65471678>ATF>used to be part of TreasuryATF has a long history going back to the 19th century. >1886 as the 'Revenue Laboratory' inside Treasury Dept's Bureau of Internal Revenue>subsequently traced to the time of the revenuers or "revenoors" and Bureau of Prohibition, formed 1920 as a unit of BIR>1927: made independent agency within Treasury Dept>1930: transferred to U.S. Justice Dept>briefly during 1933, became a division of the FBI>Volstead Act repealed December 1933, the unite was transferred from DoJ back to Treasury, where it became the Alcohol Tax Unit (ATU) of the Bureau of Internal Revenue; the Eliot Ness (had worked for the Prohibition Bureau early 1930s) "Untouchables" personnel were transferred to ATU>1942: responsibility for enforcing federal firearms laws given to ATU>early 1950s, Bureau of Internal Revenue was renamed Internal Revenue Service (IRS), ATU given additional responsibility of enforcing federal tobacco tax laws; name changed to Alcohol and Tobacco Tax Division (ATTD)>1968 GCA: name changed to Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Division of the IRS; this is where it first began to be referred to as 'ATF'>1970, TItle XI of the Organized Crime Control Actof 1970, Congress enacted the Explosives Control Act 18 U.S.C.A. Chapter 40, for close regulation of the explosives industry, designating certain arsons, bombings as federal crimes; Secretary of the Treasury responsible for regulatory aspects of this law, given jurisdiction over criminal violations of same and these were delegated to ATF division of IRS>1972, ATF officially established as independent bureau within the U.S. Treasury Dept; responsibilities of ATF / IRS then transferred to a new Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and FIrearms>>65471678>hadn't previously been aware that the NSA had policePretty much every single fedgov bureau and dept these days has its own badged/morale patched cops.
>>65503070Addendum:>after 2002 Homeland Security Act, ATF shifted from Treasury back to Dept of Justice, name changed to Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (mostly still referred to as 'ATF' though)>collection of federal tax revenue from production of tobacco and alcohol products and regulatory public functions therein that were prior handled by Bureau of Internal Revenue / ATF, transferred to the new Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB) that remained within Treasury Dept. These changes took effect 24 January 2003
>>65503070can't trust some other department to keep you safe from alien infiltrators
>>65503070>>65503078I didn't realize ATF's transfer back to DoJ was this recent. I would have guessed for sure that by the time of Ruby Ridge and Waco it was with Justice.
>more sovereign citizen amerimutt guntard d&c bollocks So what blew up in Russia this time?
>>65514158this is a bot that beat the capcha right?
ok so it's legal now (in some states) to put a 10.5" barrel on my ar with a stock, but if I put a vfg on it and then take the stock off it becomes illegal again? or does being a sbr clear you from the aow shit?
>>65514193no one fucking knows
>>65514193Goa $25 yearly membership should cover you for sbrs or aows state law permitting, if you are only a member of one of Jensen plaintiff groups then 10.5 with a stock and any grip you want is cool but 10.5 with no stock and a vfg would still be illegal for you.Keep in mind I'm not a lawyer and mildly retarded.
