are low bore axis guns the next evolutionary step of the pistol, or are they just a meme?
>>65433872>just a memeI've only ever see gear tourists buy those and shoot as good or worse than novice shooters at best.
to me its like 4 wheel steering in cars, if it was actually good enough to justify the increased cost and complexity, we would see it everywhere, but we dont. its cool, and has its niche uses, but for 99.9% of people it serves no purpose beyond the novelty of ownership
>>65433872They're slick and fancy, but a pistol just needs to be a pistol, and the average cop or MP who might actually have to depend on one in an emergency is either not going to be good enough to further explore their capability to any meaningful extent, or (especially in the case of civilian cops), they are going to be so shitty and untrained with pistols that it makes zero difference at all.Thus, any Glonk, CZ75, Beretta, etc, will already do what it needs to. (Excluding nu-Sig)In civilian life, handgun engagements tend to happen at 7yds, and seldom taking more than 1 or 2 shots, then literally whatever functioning handgun that you know how to use is going to be able to perform for you (which is why people are pretty comfortable with compact pistols and snubbie revolvers). A Kel-Tec P32 in your pocket, or a Beretta 92 Centurion with a 18rd mag in a shoulder holster, either will most likely save your life if you're practiced with them and do your part.The best place this sort of pistol has is in competition, and there it'd make sense, because there you (ostensibly) train obsessively to git real gud as a pistolero, to the point you'll be able to truly exploit the strengths of this type of gun. However, a CZ Shadow or nice 1911/2011 is going to be still pretty damn good at a MUCH lower price point, thus I see pistols like the Laugo Alien taking a long time to establish itself.>>65433878A sexy super pistol is indeed no substitute for learning how to actually shoot handguns well.
>>65433872it doesn't do anything radical enough to justify the cost. that being said, I'll take two.
>>65433878>>65433963At this point it is basically a meme in the competition shooting scene that people who can barely hit the side of a barn will blame their gun for their poor shooting performance, regardless of whether they are using a cheapo glock or a $5,000 target shooting pistol. And yet people who don't score like shit can perform respectably with almost anything, with race guns only offering modest improvement over the most bitch basic handgun.
>>65433872Low bore axis pistols with fixed optic surfaces are objectively the next step, but its not a step anybody cares to take, there's just no impetus. The overwhelming majority of civilian defence shots happen within 5 yards, the longer range competition shots are 25 yards; and even your custom super long range competitive pistol targets max out at 50 yards; and current pistols hand all that just fine. The current longest shots are held by an ICE agent who did it with a Glock and a 10mm 1911.
>>65433872they're useless trash. this is one of the best pistelles ever made, and it fires just as accurately as a glock.
>>65433872No. They look dumb and looking cool is more important.
Bore axis is a dead 2010s meme at this point, and rightfully so. It only matters to people seriously into competition shooting and people who might shoot 500 rounds a year, and we all know which of those two crowds has been doing all the posting about it.
>>65433872>Buy 1,000 rounds and a cheap entry level striker fired pistol like a RXM or Dagger>Train at the range and do some dry fire training at home whenever>End up shooting leagues better than the retards that spend $6,000+ dollars on an inevitable safe queen
>>65433963/threadGood write up.
yes, but only if it looks like this
>>65435259>siglmao
>erm actually, the flintlock is just as effective as an automatic pistol at combat range and if you train with it hard enough it can be just as accurateyou guys are fucking idiots btw, no wonder the rest of 4chan sees you ukraine shills as the reddit of the site.OP is obviously talking about the mechanical aspect of handguns in general, not le effectiveness of the larp scenario you cooked up in your tranny minds
>>65435469>OP is obviously talking about the mechanical aspect of handguns in general, not le effectiveness of the larp scenario you cooked up in your tranny mindsAnd the mechanical improvements that low bore axis pistols potentially offer are only start to matter at ranges that pistols just aren't used at. Therefore, combat ranges and tranny larp scenarios are entirely relevant to the discussion of why nobody gives a fuck about them.
>>65435484so handguns basically peaked with the revolver since combat scenarios end in 2 shots at 7 yards
>>65435458problem?
>>65435543yes, it's a nigsauer
>>65433872Gas system means it doesn't make much sense for comp guys and price means it isn't getting bought for carry.If they were $1,000 they'd probably sell enough to still be profitable.
>>65434782>The current longest shots are held by an ICE agent who did it with a Glock and a 10mm 1911.Do you mean in a competition, or did an illegal get PARTICULARLY frisky?
>>65433872I just want a non-reciprocating optics mount.
>>65435288IMO bore axis in automatic handguns is pretty much a solved problem for over a century, since we opted to not continue to make pistols where it's tall as shit, like the 1896 Broomhandle Mauser. The Luger and 1911 already had very agreeable bore axis, and it just didn't need to be a whole lot lower.The Steyr L9 pistols do seem nice enough, and they have quite low axis, however they have not taken the world by storm. Enough presence though, and it's nice that the option exists for a conventional short-recoil service pistol for those who want it.>>65435694Race pistols have done that for quite a while by plain having mounts attached to the frame to hang optics above the slide.
>>65435458Nu-Sig is a complete farce, but Sig Sauer used to fucking mean something. A Sig Sauer P226 made in West Germany in 1990 is an excellent service pistol which truly makes the Sig P320, made with Indian MIM parts in 2026, look like the shameful piece of fucking shit that it very much is.
>>65435543Disgusting imitation
>>65435737P228 is just P229 but worse
>>65435469>actually evaluate the realistic aspects of the question>conclude why they don't matter for any common application and aren't going anywhere fast>FUCKING REDDITOR UKRAINE TRANNY SHILLS!Lmao. Did you get starry eyed at the ForgottenWeapons videos and strongly emotionally invest yourself in a $5000 meme pistol you'll never actually be able to afford? Sorry that we gaped your asshole wide open, but it's for your own good, wipe your little tears.
>>65435505More capacity and faster reloads are nice, but the last time war was fought with pistols in any appreciable degree was WW1, and that was because people hadn't invented submachineguns or assault rifles yet.So that leaves you to who actually uses pistols, which is MPs, cops, and civilians overall. How likely is each advantage of any given modern pistol going to be to change things drastically over some other service pistol from 50 years prior?Capacity is like the one real point for a full on gunfight, and we've already plateaud on 17-18 rounds for service pistols for quite a while.The rest is competitive marksmanship, and these expensive meme pistols do have an actual tangible advantage there, yet they haven't been game changers anyway, so what other roles are there to evaluate and compare them in?
>>65435777Ummmm, the offensive handgun system begs to differ, sweetie.
>>65433963Thread is over, just listen to him
>tfw still no PL14 Loobydooby
>>65435737are you left handed?
>>65435505Absolutely false. You’re a moron if you parrot fake statistics like that >inb4 it’s real look I have a study Look at their data or how they gathered their data. It’s bogus. You can watch cop bodycam videos and see much more than 2 shots being fired. You can watch ASP post “civilian” camera footage with much more shots fired.
>>65435259Glove FAG
My first handgun post college was a Hudson and no it didnt make that much of a difference although they shoot low. Only put 3 mags through it before I got a CZ instead and probably should sell it but it really is a fantastic looking gun at least.
>>65435978THAT PISS YOU OFF, BITCH????
>>65435288Who will post Swiss P320 trials when women and manlets couldn't finish trials courses becauseof the wrists strain and micro trauma?
why wasn't 5.7x28mm mass adopted? I thought it was le round of le future
>>65436285Wound vectors was a meme, you aren't getting a small and light projectile like that going fast enough from a service pistol (or even P90) that you actually get anywhere close to the speeds needed, to get cavitation like you get with 5.56mm from even a short and blasty 10.5" barrel carbine.A solid copper 9mm Parabellum hollowpoint will pierce soft armor about as good as 5.7mm while having far better terminal ballistics.
>>65435708You've never touched one in your life poser faggot. West German Sigs are second from the worst they've ever made in their history. Even a current production machined P226 is wildly super in every respect and don't even mention Master Shop guns.Fucking noguns.
>>65435781>drop it on carpet floor>frame cracksIt's a fucking meme.
so what IS the next evolutionary step for handguns/firearms?Caseless ammo?
>>65440972Of all the things that never happened, this one never happened the hardest.
>>65441390Nothing. Not because there's nowhere to go, but expectations for pistols are in the gutter. Like the whole idea of slide-mounted optics, when you take a step back, is some fucking crazy cave man shit. It would be like mounting an Acog to the BCG of a rifle. Actual grug-teir mounting solution. But people are perfectly happy with it, because for what is demanded of pistols even in competitive settings, its more than adequate.
>>65441419>>65441390>NothingObviously stationary top for mounting red dots.
>>65433872It's a good idea, we just need someone to make a decent cheap option instead of meme pricing.
I actually think it's here to stay and will be a recurring feature of more mainstream models which don't have to cover development costs
>>65441533>cover development costsAnon how much do you think it costs to develop a pistol and why do you think a low barrel is significantly more expensive to develop than a Hi-Point?They simply had a novel idea that would interest collectors and autists and knew they could charge a premium for it, like any profit diving business they aimed for the highest price that results in enough sales to consume 1 shift production rates.
>>65441450hot take: red dots on handguns are unnecessary tacticool garbage
>>65440972Why do you make up lies?
>>65433963> A Kel-Tec P32 in your pocket, or a Beretta 92 Centurion with a 18rd mag in a shoulder holster,Patrician taste
>>65433872Yes, but until they are sub $1000 who cares? The incremental improvement does not justify the massive cost increase. A bad shooter will still be bad, a great shooter will still be great. And I’d wager that top tier competition shooters would rather shoot another 10,000 rounds through their current setups than buy a new pistol
>>65433928Is a low bore axis pistol actually that much harder to make?
>>65433878I guess, but is that really a reason to not make better guns?
>>65435469Post your pistol
>>65433872Only if automatic pistols become popular.
>>65441616You can say that but you’re wrong. Literally every time this is studied the people shoot better with dots. Will it make or break the self defense situation? Unlikely. But groups are better, splits are better, long range shooting is better.
>>65441407>>65441650https://youtu.be/TNEFXeLi2Pg?si=t-pL-OBSd2zghYO-Around the 4:00 mark.Cope HK niggers.
>>65440972Hop looks like the Ukrainians conscripted an American midwestern female fentanyl addict here.
>>65436285>>65436817How come they never made a BIG p90 chambered in 5.56?
>>65436006i forgot about bones, kek, gonna listen to some golden oldies
>>65435742note that the Ukraine shill is inevitably homosexual, which he tries to mask by assuming the top role, not realizing that makes him even gayer because he chooses to put his willy where men shit
>>65435469/k/ died over a decade ago, some of us just dont know any better place to go :(
>>65435259>it fires just as accurately as a glockSo its shit lol
>>65433872Yes they're objectively superior, but the advantage is so tiny nobody will buy new $5000 pistols when they can keep using their dad's old glock.Red dots are a bigger and actually-significant advantage, and they're also affordable. That's why red dots are normal for pistols now and low bore axis isn't.
>>65442410
Here is some low bore action for ya.
>>65442754low bore, you say?
>>65442410probably something to do with the geometry of the 5.56 rounds not really working for the magazine configuration
>>65442830this guy has taste
>>65442343WHAT THE FUCK>and he had to pay for itHK should be sucking his dick tripping over themselves to make it right.
>>65442461O.o>>65442867Oooh
>>65433872It's literally the laws of physics in effect. There is no downside to a low bore axis.
>>65442754>>65442830>revolverlmao no
>>65441450Apparently not, since frame mounting was how pistol optics were originally attached and was abandoned for slide mounting.
>>65435259Kys
>>65433872Maybe im just a retard but why dont they have the recoil spring above and the barrel below?>buh wuddabout ejectionSide port
>>65442343Note to self: don't use the extended mags.
>>65433872meme
>>65442461I remember seeing this before. It's a 300blk, right? I can't remember if it was straight pull bolt action, or if that guy actually managed to make it work in semi reliably.Very neat regardless though.
>>65445525Yes it’s .300 blackout. It’s semi auto and I’ve seen clips of it running successfully. Not sure if it’s truly reliable or it was only one mag that got filmed. Either way, pretty impressive.
>>65433872>low bore axislol like a Glock? That’s not what’s unique about the gun you posted
>>65433872If you're spending 5000$ on a 9mm handgun you are a giant red helmet alert retard
>>65442830Seriously someone needs to make it happen
>>65435737Jesus Christ the faggotry is multiplying. If you want to impersonate the glove tranny should have noticed he does not do the reddit finger.
>>65435543Kys
