Meet the AIM-424 Malice.https://aviationweek.com/defense/missile-defense-weapons/us-navy-testing-new-long-range-air-air-missile>The U.S. Navy is developing and currently flight testing a new long-range air-to-air missile that will far exceed the capabilities of the current AIM-120 and likely the recently disclosed AIM-174B as well.>The new AIM-424 “Malice” air-to-air missile is being developed for the F/A-18, the F-35 and F/A-XX. The missile was announced at the Tailhook Symposium here Aug. 22.>Specifics of the two-stage missile are classified and the Navy did not disclose the company producing the weapon. Imagery appears similar to the AIM-174B in size—much larger than the AIM-120.
>>65446433It fits internally on an F-35.
>>65446433How does this compare to the Aim-260
missiles are outdated tech, should've been A2A FPV drone
>>65446433>bigger image>>65446513Totally different class of missile, AIM-260 is an improved AIM-120 while AIM-424 is an improved AIM-174.
>>65446513It's got 164 more Aim
>>65446433>The U.S. Navy is developing and currently flight testing a new long-range air-to-air missile that will far exceed the capabilities of the [...] AIM-174BHUGE if F-35C IWB compatible. One step closer to my dream of a F-14-like stealth fighter.
>>65446586(me)Just saw >>65446436I am erect.
>>65446436
>>65446600Fuck the USN. How soon can we get these sold to the Poles, Norwegians, Finns, Romanians, Italians, Germans, and Czechs?
>>65446605They already have the Meteor tho
>>65446608Which is an AMRAAM tier missile kinetically but older electronically.
>>65446600So, one fits in the belly while the other hinges on the door?
>>65446600Will two of those fit?
>>65446608The fags down in Fort Worth have been dragging their ass on Meteor integration onto the F-35A.
>>65446616>>65446617The missile on the door is an AMRAAM, the Malice appears to be a "how big of a missile can you fit on the main internal pylon" size.>>65446619Meteor integration is being done for/by European users of the F-35.
>>65446624>Meteor integration is being done for/by European users of the F-35.Last I heard/checked, there's a US office of Lockheed that is responsible for official integration, and that the requesting customer is supposed to pay for it. I think(?) that the F-35B is already Meteor integrated because of the Royal Navy.
>Price: 100 million USD per missile
Are the niggers actually going to pay for it? Half the cool navair shit doesn’t even make the budget request anymore and relies on congress topping them up later
>>65446663It wouldn't be on Hornets and F-35 already if it wasn't being paid for.
>>65446663Jet sorties and cruise missiles are the only things the navy is actually useful so I’m assuming yes especially since the chinks keep testing new air to air missiles with pakistan
>>65446655Sidenote: I hope that the Norwegian JSM turns out to be good.
>>65446433>the Navy did not disclose the company producing the weaponI wonder if it's the company that is the biggest missile manufacturer on the planet and that has made every other A2A missile in service
>>65446690We already know it is Raytheon, see >>65446548
>>65446672>>65446674Im just bitter since it looks like we probably get blue balled on F/A-XX again this month
>>65446695Call me retarded, but what would be the core mission of the F/A-XX?
>>65446704Replace the super hornets
>>65446709Which do... what?
>>65446714What does the F and A stand for, retard-kun?https://www.dvidshub.net/image/9879420/aim-424-long-range-air-air-missile-lraam
>>65446714i dunno lol
>>65446714fight and attackf/a
>>65446722I guess I should be a little more up front. My bad. What will the F/A-XX do that the F-35C can't?
>>65446728I would assume 3-4x the continuous electrical power generation/cooling capacity so that it can run higher-end sensors for longer, and run local AI models and shit for electronic warfare and CCA control shit so the pilot doesn't have to do as much. Also have better all aspect stealth.
>>65446728We can't give you specific answers until the aircraft is revealed but if Boeing wins it will likely be a navalized F-47, which is a much larger plane than the F-35.The big things will be range and power generation.
>>65446728>i dunno lol
>>65446728A big one is a stated requirement to extend range by 25% over the current carrier air wing. Compute (its set to replace growler), power generation, and broadband stealth are likely as well.
Genuinely what in the absolute motherfucking shit is going on with the tri-service designators. This is beyond disgusting.
Why the fuck did the Navy bother with the AIM-174B if they had this bastard in the works?
>>65446769>F/A-19 might be a thingTom Clancy is slightly uncomfortable in his grave.
>>65446770Because it was quick and easy to stick an SM-6 on a plane, also made a fallback position if the -424 flopped.
>>65446770AIM-174B was supposedly in development as far back as 2015.
>>65446789There is 0 question that this has been in development for just as long if not longer
>>65446548>13.5' x 13.5"How long until they strap a Mk.72 to it and stuff it in a VLS cell?
>>65446770The Navy probably disclosed the AIM-174B after congressmen saw the Pakis shooting down Rafales from 200 kms away with the PL-15 and shit their pants hard, so the Navy had to disclose their own Fuck-Off BVR missile.
>>65446803It'll be the American S-400 if they make a ground based variant. Which they should, keep the price down.
>>65446728>What will the F/A-XX do that the F-35C can't?In general terms as we don't know specifics yet: almost double the take-off weight to 100k lbs, have a combat radius of 1000nmi compared to the ~700 for the F-35C; carry more munitions internally, will have two F110 derivative engines that can produce ~3x the electrical and cooling capacity of the F135 in the F-35; have a lower drag coefficient; will be wideband Very Low Observable - especially from the sides (the F-35 is optimized for VLO frontal aspect stealth); etc. That's about all I can say at this time. The radar could be even better than the APG-85 upgraded F-35 radar as they've been working on thin panel conformal radar arrays for decades, and have made significant progress in those areas. Especially in the area of software. The goal is to maximize radar array size by distributing a multitude of flat and conformal radar arrays all around the airframe embedded in the skin, and use software to link these distributed arrays into one single giant virtual array. One of the problems was that thin panel arrays embedded in the skin flex during flight, and change the distance and position of the T/R modules constantly. So, you need a way to monitor the flex, movement, and position of the arrays in real time, constantly updating your processing algorithms so you get an accurate coherent return picture. They solved that years ago, and I know for a fact Boeing has been working on the distributed aperture software problem for a while. Will the F/A-XX and F-X (F-47) have these? Who knows, at this point, honestly. But, these are what are possible at a relatively mature TR readiness level. I just can't say if the DoD is willing to push that far into state-of-the-art radar tech on the F/A-XX and F-X at this point in time. As there's A LOT of new tech going into them, and they don't really like to push programs that are 70% new technologies.
>>65446814>It'll be the American S-400
>>65446818Think about it.
>>65446739Boeing got the USAF F/X program, and NG will get F/A-XX. NG is already building/converting production space for it.
>>65446770Because the AIM-174B has almost double the range of the AIM-424, and can be used as a Boost Phase Interceptor for Ballistic Missile Defense.
>>65446827AIM-174B has a 500+ mile range? Maybe slightly more range at best but their booster is a very similar size.
>>65446827It's kinda of a shame that Trump's squirrel brain forgot about his idea reviving the brilliant pebbles program because it's a hell of a more effective defense against ballistic missiles than intercepting them during boost phase.
>>65446548Its an american R-37M. Similar weight and dimensions.
Why is there an Anon who keeps comparing new American systems to preexisting Russian systems?
>>65446850Only with a longer range and superior seeker.
>>65446816>almost double the take-off weight to 100k lbsCan't do that, maximum catapult weight is 80,000lbs as limited by the Nimitz class, and any future ford class that has a steam catapult installed if trump gets his moronic steam catapult demands met.
>>65446834>AIM-174B has a 500+ mile range?I said almost double.>Maybe slightly more range at best but their booster is a very similar size.It's also two feet longer than the AIM-424 and has a wing span of three feet, giving it a much better L/D ratio, as the AIM-424 is going to have to fly at a much higher AOA to achieve the needed L/D ratio needed for 250nmi shots. There's a reason the AIM-424 fits in the F-35's internal bays and an AIM-174B doesn't. There's also the that the AIM-174 has a bigger warhead, and has proven to be a capable AShM as a secondary role.
>>65446803No reason to when SM-6 exist and aren't restricted in length to fit internal aircraft weapon bays.
>>65446822Do you even know anything about the S-400 besides "wow scary Russian SAM"?
>>65446845What? Space Based Interceptors are actively being designed as we speak. A layered defense is just that: LAYERED.
>>65446861You're not thinking hard enough.
>>65446845Oh you are aware of who got Golden Dome contracts and what they are specifically for? Please tell us.
>>65446433People who start threads with 'meet the' are massive faggots.
>>65446863If you could say anything to support your assertion you would already have.
>>65446854>Can't do that, maximum catapult weight is 80,000lbs as limited by the Nimitz classThen you take off at 80k and fuel in air to 100k...>and any future ford class that has a steam catapult installed if trump gets his moronic steam catapult demands met.Oh shut the fuck up with this retarded bullshit.
>>65446827>Because the AIM-174B has almost double the range of the AIM-424The AIM-174B does not have the RIM-174's range as it is not sitting on a Mk72 booster.
>>65446862Well, I haven't heard anything about these in 2+ yrs so I just assume he just dropped the idea due to having his brains scrambled from drinking too much diet coke.
>>65446867No.
>>65446868Maximum trap weight is ~54,000lbsAnd you need minimum fuel reserves as well as the ability to land with your munitions. So realistically that gives you a maximum airframe dry weight of ~33,000-35,000lbs, with ~22,000lbs of fuel and ~6000lbs of munitions. So you can return with ~5000lbs of fuel and your munitions and still be safely under the ~54,000lbs trap limit (you want to be ~10,000lbs below the limit so you're not shitting bricks with zero margin for error on every landing and you don't HAVE to have exactly 5000lbs or less of fuel to land).
>>65446858AIM-424's claimed range is greater than AIM-174B's (air launched SM-6) claimed range. Presumably it will have a longer range with the booster as well.
>>65446870>The AIM-174B does not have the RIM-174's range as it is not sitting on a Mk72 booster.No, it's setting on an F/A-18E/F flying at 30k ft altitude at mach 1. The Mk72 booster only gets the SM-6 up to ~25k ft at a velocity of mach 1-ish. It has to fight gravity and a dense atmosphere to get it up to where the SM-6's sustainer motor takes over. The F/A-18E/F is able to sling it just as far as it's already at 30k ft and launching at mach 1.>>65446871Have you looked, or just waiting on others to spoon feed you?
>>65446739Rumor mill is that F-47 derives from a demonstrator that was more intended for the Navy in the first place, as Boeing has probably the strongest relationship with the Navy of all branches. So in a sense it would possibly be more a return to its roots. >>65446823Boeing is far and away ahead in that front, and the recent press releases from Northrop talk more about labs and engineering space in Florida than production. From public information it would appear being occupied with B-21 engineering work cost them dearly in terms of next generation fighter development, with the only consistent argument I’ve seen for why they should win being that they’ve not won a fighter in recent memory.
>>654468965k feet of altitude isn't doubling the -174's range
>>65446806Pay more attention. AIM-174 was a known weapon publicly spotted in test flights well before the latest jeet off
>>65446433Malicesister, we are finally relevant!
>>65446854Catapult weight limits are not the major limiting factor. It’s the ~55k limit on the arrestor gear that massively limits airframe size. >>65446816Too much attention is being paid to F110 and not enough to F414 derivatives. The EPE more or less finished development fifteen years ago, and would allow much more efficient use of available internal volume and therefore lower weight. More thrust is not needed as the airframe cannot be appreciably heavier than what has been done previously.
>>65446885>Maximum trap weight is ~54,000lbsIt's at least 56k>And you need minimum fuel reserves as well as the ability to land with your munitions.>So realistically that gives you a maximum airframe dry weight of ~33,000-35,000lbs, with ~22,000lbs of fuel and ~6000lbs of munitions.Nobody is landing with 22k of fuel. What the fuck are you talking about? Even an F-14A only needed 300 gals per pass, and avionics and fuel efficiency have come a long way since then. Hell, an F/A-18 SH can basically land itself at night.>So you can return with ~5000lbs of fuelYou don't need 5k lbs of fuel to land. More like 1k at most.>and your munitions and still be safely under the ~54,000lbs trap limit (you want to be ~10,000lbs below the limit so you're not shitting bricks with zero margin for error on every landing and you don't HAVE to have exactly 5000lbs or less of fuel to land).F-14s would land at 46k regularly.
>>65446911You don't even know the actual range of the SM-6, you stupid fuck.
>>65446973>300 gals per passtruly the worst non-compound unit of measure
>>65446975I know it isn't 500 nm.
>>65446868>Then you take off at 80k and fuel in air to 100k...What user requirement driven by 100k gross at 80k MTOW could be important enough to drive accepting inconvenience on the scale that implies?
>>65446995Deep strike within mainland China from the first island chain. You know, the exact war the US has been focused on for the last decade and a half...
>>65446987I never said it was 500nm. Are you retarded, autistic, or just wanting to argue?
>>65446548>450kmgood LORD that thing is going places
>>65447007>the AIM-174B has almost double the range of the AIM-424
>>65446704Cheaper 4.5 gen multi-role to replace F-15s, F-16s & F-18s that are aging out.
>>65447003There’s been nothing to suggest the Navy is buying a battlecruiser. In fact their public statements suggest they’re in the market for a barely-a-sixth-gen made from largely off the shelf parts bought with whatever change they can find between the couch cushions. Public statements are a modest ~25% increase in combat radius and a derivative of an engine currently in US inventory. I’d expect at best it might internally manage 4x2000lbs munitions with self escort capability out to a slightly shorter distance than an A-6, with anything beyond that relying on MQ-25. It will likely be capable of a modest supercruise speed assuming it is tailless and using an F414 derivative.
>>65447014>almostGrab a dictionary.
>>65447003That's fucking retarded because the first island chain contains Japan, Korea and the Phillipines, where there are twenty gorillion airstrips capable of launching B21s. If that's the strategic calculus that passes muster in Washington at the moment then God help us all.
>>65447028>forward deploying strategic bombers inside the first island chainGlass houses anon
>>65447020>Public statements are a modest ~25% increase in combat radius and a derivative of an engine currently in US inventory.Source?
>>65446548So it's just an air launched Standard (but not actually derived from the Standard)?
>>65447028And what do you think will be escorting those B-21s, retard?
>>65447035F-47s
>>65447033That would be the AIM-174B. This has a longer range while being able to be carried internally by an F-35.
What the Air Force doin?
>>65447033More like a bloated ESSM block 2.
>>65447025AIM-424's range is greater than 250nm meaning almost double that is 500nm, as you said grab a dictionary.
>>65447041Letting the Navy foot the bill while they pay for the AIM-260.
>>65447040Okay, it's a different airframe, but it seems to be in the same size and weight class as a Standard. Is it just that the AIM-174B is a stopgap and this is what the Navy actually wants?
>>65447031Rangehttps://www.twz.com/air/f-a-xx-will-have-just-25-more-range-over-existing-navy-fightersEnginehttps://web.archive.org/web/20241117012848/https://aviationweek.com/defense/aircraft-propulsion/us-navy-carves-independent-path-future-fighter-designThey are in the market for a Super Hornet+ on a Super Hornet budget. It’s not intended to be bleeding edge in terms of performance but will probably do very well on the export market, assuming they ever get around to buying the damn thing.
>>65447044How exactly are they comparable?
>>65447046>AIM-424's range is greater than 250nmHow much greater? What's the range when launched from a platform at an altitude of 30k ft traveling mach 1 at an AOA of 7 degrees?
>>65447052>Is it just that the AIM-174B is a stopgap and this is what the Navy actually wants?Yes.>>65447054If I were to guess the anon sees 4 strakes and "all look same".
>>65447057Irrelevant, it could be 500 and a quarter nm and the statement would be accurate.
>>65446433Malice? Fucking seriously? Come on I can just smell Hegseth's breath all over this.
>>65447080It's a hell of a lot better than just calling it LRAAM (and not gay like Gunslinger).
>>65447081It's not cool like a British name and it's not clinical like a typical US designation. It's just... edgy, if not downright villainous.
>>65447080sorry it's not named the anal intercourse
>>65447054More comparable than a standard missile. Stretch it 1ft, increase the diameter from 10 inches to 13.5 and there you go.>>65447066>almost
>>65447053Range just says more than 125% of the "what they're seeing today". Whatever that actually means in detail.
>>65447088Yes anon 500nm is almost double "greater than 250nm", grab a dictionary.
>>65447092It is ~25% over existing fighters in navy inventory, which is quoted as 670nmi at best for F-35C. The giant super fighter you are dreaming of is not what they are looking to buy with their current ~$1billion annual budget for the program. Navy fighters are very strictly size limited and this one will be no different, which in turn means it will be an iterative improvement at best in most respects.
>>65447103>which is quoted as 670nmi at best for F-35CThat's funny, because the F-35A that carries less fuel is quoted at 760nm combat radius in A2A configuration.
>>65446676It's literally just a NSM with a modified body to fit inside a F-35 bay. And while I don't know if NSMs have been used in anger, they *have* been used in SinkExes.
>>65447100https://repository.tudelft.nl/file/File_de3e22f3-0dab-4eba-85f8-48a192d2ea4b?preview=1
>>65447118Your own file name says that’s for the A. Air Force A2A profiles are not the same as Navy strike profiles off a carrier, and this is again explicitly strike focused. F-35 is also the best case here, it is very possible that the 25% increase is over the Super Hornets these are meant to replace.
>>65446769The weird thing is, the missile designations are still consecutive--except for JATM, Malice, and for some strange reason THAAD. It's the aircraft designations that have gone totally off the rails.
>>65446871You've probably missed a lot of development on the sensor and comms side of the equation, then. That's been the focus (at least publicly) the last couple of years, with multiple vendors developing different tracking (sensor) and transport (comms) layer satellites, most of which are being slipped onto Falcons in between Starlink launches. A final decision on interceptors will probably wait until most of those constellations are in place (which will probably give the US global AMTI/GMTI/SAR as well).
>>65447118>>65447144Combat radii are so subjective and easy to manipulate that it's not even funny. Heck, look all the way back to B-17s and B-24s, and how they could dramatically increase their range by shrinking their bomb loads, or the games the Bomber generals played when they claimed that P-38s (or P-47s with drop tanks) just didn't have the gas to get to Berlin and back, but P-51s did...
>>65447144>>65447118>because the F-35A that carries less fuel is quoted at 760nm combat radius in A2A configuration.>Your own file name says that’s for the ANo shit, genius.>>65447144>Air Force A2A profiles are not the same as Navy strike profiles off a carrier, and this is again explicitly strike focused.You said best case for the F-35C, and best case would be A2A TACAIR config.>it is very possible that the 25% increase is over the Super Hornets these are meant to replace.A SH in what config? Carrying three drop tanks? See where this is going?
>>65447185A TACAIR config is not operationally relevant for a strike fighter going into China. Super Hornet has abysmal range unless all it is carrying is gas. There is no reason to believe they are quoting it against a Super Hornet hauling gas or an D-35 carrying only A2A missiles. However even if we take your most optimistic figure it still lines up with what I said originally, that at best F/A-XX is about par to an A-6. It will be a moderate improvement over what is currently in inventory because that is what they are willing to pay for, which is certainly nice to have but they will not get F-47 performance because they are not spending F-47 money.
>>65446514What blew up now?
>>65446433>>65446433
>>65446856>L/D ratioEveryone laugh at this anon who doesn't know how missiles work
>>65447254NMM was designed to maximize the space of a Mk41 cell using a two stage missile, AIM-424 is designed to maximize the space of an F-35's internal weapons bay.
>>65447266My point looks like they use same TSI second stage in air to air missile as well.
>>65447271Not only do they look nothing alike the AIM-424 does not appear to be a two stage missile despite initial reporting (likely confusion with the Boeing LRAAM).
>>65447261Read a book, nigger.https://zaretto.com/sites/zaretto.com/files/missile-aerodynamic-data/AIM120C5-Performance-Assessment-rev2.pdf
>>65447291https://www.scribd.com/document/975778938/Report-1758117868
>>65447291Maybe you should read it, especially the last section before the conclusion.
>>65447308Quote what you're talking about.
>>65447338Look at the profiles. Missiles with solid rocket motors aren't planes. They burn for a few seconds, then the rest of the flight is mostly ballistic. A bullet's L/D is basically zero, but it works fine. For a bullet you just want to minimize drag. For a long range missile even that becomes less important, since a significant portion of its flight profile is at very high altitude with very low air resistance, and you start looking at mass fractions.
>>65447354>A bullet's L/D is basically zero, but it works fine.A bullet isn't an A2A missile with control surfaces, or traveling a hundred miles. Again, quote the specific parts you're talking about, and explain in detail what the fuck you're wanting to get across. Do you not think a missile has a coefficient of lift, and a coefficient of drag, and thus a L/D ratio? How do you think an ATACMS missile gets more range? It increases it's AOA, and thus lift coefficient. In doing so, the drag increases affecting terminal velocity. This is basic shit. I don't understand what your problem with me stating obvious facts is?
>>65446600>aamraam tier missile kineticallywrong, it's got significantly better range and kinetics than an aamraam>older electronicallyalso wrong.
>>65446436If it fits inside the F-35 I expect it to be a copy of the R-37M (Izdeliye 810) concept which has 300-325-350 km of range when launched from anything that's not a MiG-31 flying at mach 2.8 which is cool, the US desperately needs an upgrade over the AIM-120D
>>65446614meteor is better than the amraam
>>65447019Aren't all the aging F-15 variants being replaced with F-15EXs already?
>>65447629Very partially, there were 1,500 built before the EX that are getting old, 100 EXs have been ordered.
>>65446852Vatnigs, Changs and turdies.
>>65447086Sounds like you're knowledgeable on the topic, lil' magababe...
>>65446852Because It's a missile of similar dimensions anrd technology to preexisting missiles such as the R-37M.
>>65447354>bullet's L/D is basically zero,Typical bullets L/D is 3-5
>Similar technology
>>65447449>comparing Meteor with old A and B model AMRAAMSfell for the MBDA marketing
>>65447770The R-37M is a substantially larger missile latger missile than either the AIM-174 or AIM-424>similar technologylol, lmao even
>>65447080MAlice is kinda cute though. Kegsbreath probably wanted to call it xXx_NiggerSlayer420_xXx after his favorite online handle got banned.
>>65446514Stfu one trick pony.
>>65447372>A bullet isn't an A2A missileFor a large part of the trajectory it is. Of course it has a Cl and Cd, but when at 0 AoA the Cl, and the L/D, is 0. That will be the case for a significant portion of the flight. Even if you decide to set the AoA at 5 degrees like in that paper, at mach 4 and 30km it can only barely make enough lift to hold itself up, which doesn't last because it's slowing down. Sticking to near 0 AoA loses you some potential altitude but keeps you velocity higher, ending with about the same energy, but faster and closer to the target. ATACMS launches from the ground so of course the math changes from an air launched system.
>>65447809>n-noi accept your concession that the aamraam is a significantly worse missile than the meteor.
>>65447978>>65447301>https://www.scribd.com/document/975778938/Report-1758117868>The Cd continued to dominate Cl showing that the missile tends to lose altitude rather than sustain lift. This implied that the missile must maintain a slight positive angle of attack (2°- 5°) to remain at altitude.
>>65448003Meteor couldn't even ACK paki raperats. The Meteor go BTFO by an export chinkslop PL-15E. DISGRACEFUL. MUCH SHAME. WOW IZZAT IN THE GANGES.
>>65446647>blowing up chinks from 450km away with a stealth fighter they can't see: pricelessThere are some things money can't buy, for everything else, there's mastercard
>>65446927>It’s the ~55k limit on the arrestor gear that massively limits airframe size.The AAG on the Ford's can take 80k+ and the legacy shit on the Nimitz can do 60k+Meanwhile, the tailhook on a F35C is rated up to 46k for a standard trap
>>65448167That's literally what I said, but again, a missile isn't a plane, it's goal isn't to cruise at a given altitude. They go up high to enjoy the lower drag of the thinner air, then fall down to their target. Lower drag is obviously always good, but lift often becomes secondary to other performance metrics.
>>65448003Yes the AIM-120A and B are kinetically inferior to the Meteor, the newer C and D models are not. MDBA started developing the Meteorback when the A and B were the only versions of AMRAAM and their marketing never updated (because that would hurt themselves).It's also funny when you realize Meteor only entered service a decade ago despite being in development since the nineties.
>>65446548>weight>1500lbs Lmao what the fuck
>>65446920>finallythey’ve been relevant for a long while?
>>65447816R37 is a 600ish kg missile, retard-tan. The 174 and 424 are 7-750ish
>>65448492R-37M is a 15" diameter missile
>>65448376nope, those are also kinetically inferior to the meteor, sorry.
>>65448183>chinkshill trying to invoke the indian as a weapon to shut it down againkek.
>>65446714Medium range missile truck. Carrier based F-15EX but decades older.
>>65448252Highest I’ve seen AAG rated for personally is 55k, but if you can show me the government saying otherwise then I’ll revise my position. There’s some wiggle room based on approach speed but that seems to be the weight they planned for. As far as I know F/A-XX is going to face the same size constraints as past Navy fighters, which is probably for the best as any additional cost growth from larger size would make procurement even more difficult. https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/FOID/Reading%20Room/Selected_Acquisition_Reports/FY_2019_SARS/20-F-0568_DOC_01_AAG_SAR_Dec_2019_Full.pdf
>Its range — and speed — exceed that of the currently fielded AIM-174B, a U.S. official familiar with the program confirmed to Naval News>Specialized aerodynamic fins and strakes also enable the missile to retain significant amounts of maneuverability even with its larger size compared to the long-fielded Raytheon-built AIM-120 AMRAAM space magic
>>65446436>>65446600Fuuuuck they really stuffed her didnt they?They're really just all up in her guts.That missile is just soooo tight in her bay...
>>65448635Sounds more like brute force
>Missed opportunity to call it the AIM-404They had ONE job!
>>65448554They are longer ranged.>b-b-buh muh no escape zoneWhich you can't quantify with actual numbers.
>>65448759in your mind? yeah probably not in reality
>>65448962Go ahead and tell us the numbers.
>>65447629The Cs that weren't replaced by F-22s are being replaced by EX. Once that process is complete, it is likely, but not guaranteed, that the early-model Es will also be replaced by EX (or an even newer model). There is no program of record for doing so, but it's a logical assumption, as the USAF has a need for a plane that does what the Mudhen does, and the EX obviously does that just fine without any need for the billions in R&D and fixed costs for a new design. That said, maybe stealth or drones or spaceships or who-knows-what will be considered as a Mudhen replacement when it comes time to retire the Es. Just keep in mind that most As were built in the '70s, most Cs in the '80s, and most Es in the '90s, and that rates of usage and remaining lifespan have varied over time, meaning that the Es may or may not be ready for retirement in another decade.
Call me retarded, but what is the USAF equivalent of the Growler?
>>65449028Thats the neat part. There isnt
>>65446896>the mk72 booster gets the SM-6 up to mach 1 before the missile's rocket fires>the F18 also gets the SM-6 up to mach 1 before the missile's rocket fires>therefore the F18's SM-6 travels faster than a ship's SM-6 and therefore has much greater range than the maliceam i just stupid or does this not make sense
>>65449028>>65449093There are 5 expeditionary squadrons of Growlers that support USAF operations (as well as shore-based USN operations).I believe there's been some budgetary conflict here, where the Navy would rather not maintain these squadrons (on their own dime) but the USAF is happy to have access to dedicated EW platforms that they don't have to pay for in their own budget. Currently congressional mandate prevents the Navy from divesting those squadrons.Also the F-35A(the Air Force version) has a built in jammer so they could just have one in a squad do EW.
>>65449149>Also the F-35A>(the Air Force version) has a built in jammer so they could just have one in a squad do EW.Once again: Call me retarded, but couldn't they just stick a pod or two in the F-35A's IWB?
>>65449159I looked it up and the AN/ASQ-239 Barracuda system has sensors and antennas built directly into the edges of the wings and tail. An extra internal pod would duplicate capabilities the jet already possesses internally with more weight that could have been used for armament. Besides, the F-35A cant use pods (it already has an internal gun),the pods were developed for the other variants who wanted to still add a gun for close range support.
>>65449186>Besides, the F-35A cant use podsNot even on the IWB hardpoints?
>>65449106It doesn't make sense because the anon has no idea what he is talking about, RIM-174 and AIM-174 have different ranges for the aforementioned reasons but it is not significant.
>>65449159>Call me retarded, but couldn't they just stick a pod or two in the F-35A's IWB?You would have to completely redesign the IWB doors to be radar transparent so that your pods could blast out their EM radiation. Even then, you'd only have a relatively small "window" in which you'd be able to send that EM radiation because the airframe is going to block, absorb, attenuate, and redirect/bend your pulse as it tries to travel through the airframe, fuel, components, etc. You'd basically be stuck with jamming directly under you with, say, +/-40 beam width side-to-side and front-to-back. The F-35s already have a serious EW suite that nobody really knows the capabilities of. Do I think it's as capable as a Growler's with the next gen pods? No, but being a stealth platform allows it you use a lower power EW suite to the same effect as it can get in much closer to the targets and work its magic from within the threat bubble. That's why it's called a stand-in jammer, and the Growler is a stand-off jammer as it's not stealthy, and needs to stay out of the threat bubble, which means it needs more power to put affects on the threat. The USAF prefers to use commercial based platforms for stand-off jamming, and the F-35 for stand-in jamming. The F-35 can use it's radar to jam, too, and has the ability to focus a shitton of power into a very small area allowing it to destroy T/R modules on enemy radars. There's also the ability to perform Cyber Warfare attacks on enemies Integrated Air Defense systems, and more delicate, discrete, deceptive jamming to where an enemy wouldn't even know they're getting attacked with EW.
>>65449451
>>65449451>>65449455So... stick a couple of pods on a F-15EX for stand-off jamming?
>>65449460They already have the EC-37B Compass Call, and EC-130H Compass Call for stand-off jamming. The F-15EX already carries a potent EW suite the AN/ALQ-250 Eagle Passive Active Warning Survivability System (EPAWSS). Which is built off the F-35's AN/ASQ-239 Barracuda EW suite, and in some ways a little more advanced than the F-35s Barracuda. Tech from EPAWSS is getting back fed into the F-35s EW suite upgrades with TR3 and block 4 upgrades. The F-15EX is meant to be a long range shooter, and with CCAs and EW capable CMs (L3Harris Green Wolf), I don't really see the need to make it into a stand-off jamming platform. And like the other anon already said, if the USAF can just use Growlers in need be.
>>65448610Going to be real with you. I went looking for where I thought I remember reading it and couldn't find it. What I DID find though was that EMALS have a max launch limit of something like 70-90k. That might have been what I was thinking of, or maybe I just can't remember properly at the moment where I saw it. Make your choice.
>>65449524Your picrel reminded of the decoy missiles and drones used over Baghdad in '91. Still hard in 2026 to find good sources about that.
>>65449028Compass Call
>>65449529Happens to the best of us. I could see it going either way. Not like the modern internet has made tracking down older sources very easy, and half this stuff only showed up in a powerpoint once a decade ago.
>>65449530>Still hard in 2026 to find good sources about that.Yeah, they used TALD, and BQM-74 target drones for that. The Red Wolf is basically just an upgraded version that can perform active jamming instead of just mimicking a fighter/bomber radar signature.https://designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-141.htmlhttps://designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-74.html
>>65449574Bit of a segue; but I struggle to imagine how the Russian Federation ever seriously planned/plans to prevent the USAF and NATO from achieving air supremacy over the battlefield. They'd inflict losses, of course, but victory would not be in the cards.
>>65449584>I struggle to imagine how the Russian Federation ever seriously planned/plans to prevent the USAF and NATO from achieving air supremacy over the battlefield.I don't think they honestly ever did post 'Nam. Their only real recourse was MUH NOOOKKKSSS, and their IADS. I think their real strategy was inflict whatever loses they could, infiltrate Western media/institutions/counterculture groups and use those to megaphone their anti war propaganda within Western societies along with KGB Active Measure to politically and socially force the US/West to stop fighting. Just like they did with the anti war, and Civil Rights movements around the 'Nam war time frame. The USSR sent a shitton of money and resources on Active Measures propaganda and infiltration. It's the same way Russia did with Western environmental groups shilling against domestic production of shale, crude, gas, nuclear, etc. to get the big players in Europe dependent on Russia for Oil/Gas. Then Russia has a major bargaining tool to use in the event it ever needed to, like during a war. This is also one of the main reasons Russia invaded Ukraine: Ukraine has a sizeable amount of oil/gas in the Eastern parts and the Black Sea, like, you know Donbas, Crimea... Ukraine was working a deal to become economically integrated with the EU in 2013, and signed contracts for Dutch Shell to come in an extract it's oil to be sold to Europe. Ukraine was cutting into Russia's European trump card, and it had to be stopped. Doesn't really seem to be working out too well, though.
>>65449641To add to what you said, the American shale oil and gas boom coming right around 2014 was fortuitous for the Atlantic Alliance.
>>65449570Anyhow its probably going to be the tailhook on the F/A-XX that limits it and not the AAG.
>>65449649Yeah, both Russia and China have been using environmental groups and politicians to block and slow down with red tape US oil and gas production. They do the same in Canada by paying the Injuns to protest and MUH SACRED LANDS!!! so Canada can't built pipelines. Similar to the Keystone pipeline, both Warren Buffet had a lot to do with that as his trains were the ones carrying the crude from Canada and made a lot of money doing it.
it will never stop annoying me that braindead boomer congressmen made the f22 exorbitantly expensive by drastically reducing the procurement numbers, which in turn led to shutting down the production line and now they are stuck with a fleet of 4.5th gen planes in the f15ex as opposed to true 5th gen planesthey are so dumb it's honestly unreal
>>65450166>treating the F-15EX and the F-22 as equivalent roleYou are so dumb its honestly unreal
>>65450184the f-22 was meant to be an f15c replacement, which it only fulfilled partiallythe f15ex is now an f15c replacement
>>65446647More like 1.5, which is still wayy cheaper than a jet and MUCH cheaper than a pilot.
>>65450166They never should have bought the F-22 in the first place, or the F-47 for that matter. They're gold plated designs intended to counter threats that don't and won't exist.
>>65447003Dark Eagle-sanChina has certain things they need to not blow up to sustain themselves during and after the war. Dark-Eagle-san hits Chinese LNG storage off the coast of China, big pain, big loss. China manufacturing drop to all-time low. Dark eagle-san hits Chinese OTH backscatter radars off the coast of China, big pain, big loss, china have hard time hitting American warship with dongfeng missiruDark-eagle-san hits yangtze river hydro complex-san, hitting turbine generator and massive converters. knocks out power generation to the entire east coast. dark eagle san hits the substations hitting the inner mongolian coal mines submerging enormous coal fields in water and permanently destroying their mineral value. it will take years to recover and in the meantime no coal for china, -60% electrical energy grid coal powerDark eagle-san targets Yulin, Zhanjiang, and Qingdao, not the underground bunkering fuel but the infrastructure needed to get this fuel to fleet. i still have a few dozen more missiru what else do i hit?
>>65449524arent enemy comms and satellite uplinks already incredibly resistant to theater-wide jamming?
>>65450191>You are so dumb its honestly unreal
>>65446608Why are Meteor fans so delusional about its range.
>>65446433B-but the Americans are out of missiles
>>65450368This is an air-to-air missile, anon
>>65446614>Which is an AMRAAM tier missile kineticallyITT, delusional yanks actually believe this.
>>65450491To be fair, with the AIM-174/SM-6 lineage, this fat bitch will almost certainly have an anti surface attack mode too.
>>65449584I can't speak for Russia, but Soviet doctrine if WW3 ever broke out was basically to bumrush to the channel as quickly as they could, regardless of if they initiated it or they were attacked first. They had some capable aircraft but those were more for protecting the backline than claiming airspace out over the battlefield. The main way they intended to contest airspace was taking out airfields through either capture or mushroom cloud makeovers, or maybe conventional bombing if they're feeling frisky.This is why the Soviet Union had and today Russia has more of a focus on organic AA capacity within their forces, it was meant to make it easier to operate beneath contested airspace.Russia today, who fucking knows. I'm pretty sure most western air forces would walk all over their air power alone, and aside from Ukraine getting sneaky a few times, an IADS isn't an offensive weapon. Those lower level AA assets don't help if your enemy has wildly more capable standoff munitions and airframes.
>>65446433>New naval missile a month before Ace Combat 8 comes outMalice is right.
>>65450660Should use it as a 500km range ARM and just do mass-launches at mainland china
>>65450692It will likely have that capability.With a 13.5" diameter, they can easily fit dual mode or even tri mode seekers on to it.Easily allowing for radiation homing, IR, or direct radar illumination.
>>65446433All the new stuff coming down the pipeline. Also Locksneed cuda likely for awacs defense against long range chinese/russian missiles
>>65447629Even A-10s are being replaced with EX.https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2026/07/01/michigans-selfridge-national-air-base-receives-big-upgrades-heres-whats-new/
>>65451508
>>65450302why are aamraam fans so in denial about the meteor's superior range?
>>65448759they are not longer ranged than the meteoralso>n-noooo actually hitting your target doesn't matter chud!lol.
>>65451508>>65451514I feel bad for the next Maduro or Gaddafi.
>>65451514missed opportunity to call it the Small Cost Advanced Missile
>>65451514RACM SACM robots.
>>65451508"Project Alpha" has to be a naval derivative of HACM...right? I can't think of any other hypersonic missile the navy might be flight testing. Nothing else in the pipeline that is publicly known anyway fits the timeline for the test.
>>65451737My best guess is its in reference to Castelion who has been awarded a $23.4M firm-fixed-price order from the U.S. Navy for the production and delivery of 50 Blackbeard missiles. Could be other classified or navalized army hypersonics
>>65451763>Blackbeard missilesThat was the winner of Multi-mission Affordable Capacity Effector (MACE), which is already listed on that document as MACE.Why would they call it "Project Alpha" if that was just a MACE test flight? And it would be very odd for there to be ANOTHER hypersonic missile program ready for test flights considering the public history of HAWC/HACM, AGM-183 ARRW, etc. A naval derivative of HACM seems like the most logical assumption.
>>65451857>>65451737Looking into it further, the USAF HACM budget document explicitly include funding for F/A-18F integration and flight-testing qualification. Since HACM had its planned 7 flight test campaign brought down to just 5 flight tests, I'm assuming they're getting the navy to pay for a 6th flight test under another budget as "Project Alpha". This gives HACM 6 flight tests instead of 5, and test data from an F/A-18 instead of the F-15 they've been using so far. So yeah, that's my guess.
>>65451883I think they’d probably just call that HACM still. I would bet that it’s just an intentionally very vague way of saying there’s more in the pipe that they haven’t shown off yet. There has been a lot of money going into missiles in recent years, and not just on the Navy side. While they’ve shown off a lot their hand, I’d imagine there’s still a fair bit more they haven’t, while the Air Force hasn’t shown any of theirs yet.
>>65451584Go ahead and tell us what Meteor and AMRAAM's ranges are.
>>65451763Blackbeard = MACE
>>65446647>Production rate: 0.35 Missiles per year
>>65446816Give me a pathway to a variable cycle engine and the contract is yours NG. And it's weird that the FA-XX get's scrutiny like >65446739 when the real question should be: What can the F-47 do that the FA-XX can't?
>>65446605>US selling to Europeans Lmao. Not only where have been the last decade, but do you remember nothing from ASRAAM/Meteor?
>>65448443It's just like me.
>>65452491The Meteor anon knows he will get BTFO so he doesn't answer.>>65453383That America has sold Europe AMRAAMS for decades while it took 20 years for Meteor to enter aervice?
>>65453297>Give me a pathway to a variable cycle engine and the contract is yours NGPretty sure the navy already confirmed, no matter who they go with, Boeing or NG, they'll be using non-VCEs on F/A-XX
>>65446630>royal navyLow-viz paint schemes really screwed over everyone who went with the generic concentric rings design
>>65453584>Canadians put in a leaf>Ozzie's have a 'too>kiwi being kiwiWhat should the Royal Navy use as their design?
>>65453652
>>65453473>aim120dBout 160km>MEATeorBout 200kmNow stfu and stop shitting up the thread you contrarian faggot
>>65453698https://www.saab.com/products/meteor>~100km
>>65446433>Still launching AAMs from aircrafthttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-08-24/china-develops-missile-to-target-planes-thousands-of-miles-away
>>65454104动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门
>>65454238Jelly?
>>65454325jealous of a render? damn the japanese rape baby is really running out of material
>>65453556They have, yes. I would bet on an F414 derivative, possibly a further development of the old EPE design. That would save a lot of internal space vs F110, give thrust similar to a later model Tomcat, not majorly impact logistics and training pipelines, and have exhaust velocity to enable at least low supercruise should that be a design goal
>>65454089https://www.rtx.com/raytheon/what-we-do/sea/tomahawk-cruise-missile>1000 mileswell it says so on the website, it must be true guysIf you weren’t a jeet you’d know that european and american weapons manufacturers underestimate their weapons capabilities while russian and chink overestimate theirs
>>65454524Yes anon ~1000 miles is the widely accepted range of the current version of the Tomahawk missile, do you have anything to refute that?
>>65454524>accuses others of being a jeet while behaving like a jeet claiming a missile used by the jeet airforce has performance far better than it actually doesVery interesting.
>>65449674My tinfoil belief is theyre doing the same with public perception data centers
>>65454663Eh my brother sells solar panels in Ohio and a datacenter moving to town just fucks you for no real benefit. There are people paying almost a grand a month for power now who weren’t even paying $300 3-4 years ago. There are people who stand to lose their homes if the power bills go up much further, which they will because most of those projects there aren’t even online yet. With how poorly it’s being handled most of the hate is organic.
>>65446850Its got 400 lbs on the R-37M, so it's gonna have much longer range
>>65454583max range is confidential not that it matters since we know that it’s range exceeds 1000 NAUTICAL miles>>65454594chinksect antennae typed this postjeets also use C-17 Globemasters, I guess those suck too nowI’ve also heard jeets use oxygen too, so you might wanna limit your daily intake just to be safe
>>65455993>PL-67 is essentially a cannon>AIM-TREE is essentially a cruise missile
>>65446894both of these are vague minimums, remember how the DOD doesn't like to publish actual numbers so the ping pongs have to guess whether or not their HVTs are in range?
>>65455387You are shotgunning after outing yourself my brown friend.
>>65446827The boost phase intercept relies on a missile both overflying you and doing so very closely. It is unlikely that the 174 or any SM-6 variant will ever even have the opportunity to be used in this manner.
>>65446862Space based interceptors are completely untenable economically unless your goal is only to stop single digit ICBM launches. Even stopping just a handful of modern fast burn ICBMs would require tens of thousands of interceptor satellites and that's assuming you can detect a launch, make a decision to fire and send a fire command in 30 seconds or less
>>65456311Boost phase intercept relies on being within a few hundred miles of the launch site which is unrealistic when dealing with theater or intercontinental tier missiles (unless you are a Golden Dome interceptor constellation).
>>65456318>Starlink is untenable economically
>>65456383how is starlink remotely close to what he says
>>65458077I think he means StarShield which hosts classified payloads. Maybe it intercepts the icbm and fires microwave radiation at it, frying its electronics and turning the whole thing into a dud with no guidance
>>65458081its a new gps nothing more
>>65458096>Starshield was adapted from the global communications network Starlink but brings additional capabilities such as target tracking, optical and radio reconnaissance, and early missile warningSo you are factually incorrect
>>65458107>factually incorrecta phrase from 2018 that was a aftethought of a general
>>65456318
>>65456318So I'm guessing you have actual studies to prove your claims, and not just bullshit you're pulling out of your blown out seething asshole?>>65456311Yeah, you strap them to UAVs and have them on station around enemy launch locations when the need permits itself.
>>65458985>a aftethoughtIt's AN, you uneducated retarded nigger.
