There's "Idiot Proof" and there's "Soldier Proof."
>"Eduard, would it be le gay if we..."
>>65446881>Huh huh huh huh>Hehehehe>Check it out, our rifles are doing it huh huh huh >hehehehe
>>65446876The rolling block action is your favorite weapon designer's favorite weapon design.
>>65446876Because you'd have to be an idiot to be a soldier
>>65446876everything "soldier proof" is "idiot proof" but not everything "idiot proof" is "soldier proof""soldier proof" is "idiot proof but you have to be able to work it in the dark while seeing jack shit proof"
>>65446912b-b-b-boiiingggnggg
>>65446876right up until you get a pierced primer and the gas pressure against the hammer unlocks everything, sending the casing into your eye
>>65449024that's not how it works but thanks for playing
>>65446876Are all rolling block kits ones that require hand fitting?I want one but I also dont want to spend the money pre-built goes for. Also sounds like a fun project. Not sure how much I have patience for hand fitting thought.
>>65446876The RRB was just so perfect for it's time. It deserved more.
>>65451453That's exactly how it works. The RB relies on the strength of the hammer spring to keep the breech closed during firing. As that spring weakens with use the recoil can actually overcome it and bounce the hammer back far enough for the block to unlock.
>>65449024>>65451538NTA, but have you even checked OP's pic >>65446876 ? Seems like the hammer locks the block in place the moment it hits it.
>>65451762>Seems like the hammer locks the block in place the moment it hits it.But the only thing holding the hammer in that forward position is its spring. As the sping weakens with use it provides less and less force behind the hammer, until the point where the force of recoil imparts enough momentum on the hammer to overcome that weakened spring tension and the hammer rotates backward, which in turn allows remaining gas pressure in the chamber -which is pressing the cartridge case rearward- to rotate the breechblock open. The pierced primer opens the breech mechanism in similar fashion because the escaping gas is channeled down the firing pin hole in the breechblock and impinges onto the face of the hammer, which then forces the hammer to rotate backward and out of lock under the breechblock. The remaining pressure in the chamber then forces the breechblock open via the cartridge case and in the previous scenario.
>>65451878Never before have I heard anything about that ever happening or even being possible. I think you're inventing scenarios.
>>65451966It sounds like one of those things that's theoretically possible, but has never actually happened, so midwits constantly talk about it to make themselves seem smarter.Like the whole thing where a Mossberg 500 with the safety on can, if dropped, have the shell elevator get unpinned causing it to get jammed when you rack the pump, something that there's been absolutely no reports of ever happening but one guy on YouTube managed to intentionally cause the malfunction by dropping the gun perfectly on its side like 20 times in a row.
>>65451878jonathan_frakes_we_made_that_up.jpg
>>65451878If that's a real problem why doesn't my 1858 percussion cap revolver cock the hammer itself every time I fire? The hammer is the only thing that keeps the cap from spigot-mortaring backward off the nipple.
>>65451453It's exactly how it happens >>65451966>>65451982Readhttps://law.justia.com/cases/washington/supreme-court/1969/39855-1.html
>>65451878Recoil isn't imparted on the hammer, it's imparted on the breech block, which is held in place by contact with the hammer block at a perpendicular angle to it's rolling motion.
>>65452292It is a problem that happenshttps://www.google.com/search?q=muzzleloader+hammer+blowbackThe sides of the cap blow out and allow gas to blow by, it's the reason caps jam so readily in the colt open fram designs ( historic practice of raising the pistol vertically as you cock it so the loose bits of cap fall out of the action instead of getting in the lock work and jamming it to shit)With a weak hammer spring or nipple touch hole that's been flame cut from heavy usage you can get exactly that
>>65452840I read that the plaintiff claims it happened. I don't read any evidence that it happened that way.
>>65453347Yeah I think he probably got a hangfire, opened the breech, then it went off. And he wanted somebody to blameAnd even with a pierced primer I dont see how that could overcome the bolt thrust forcing the breechblock into the locking surfaces of the hammer. Its mechanically impossible
>>65452863So you'd basically need both a damaged rifle and faulty ammo? What's next, a cracked chamber?
>>65446881Docking.
>>65453433https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IY9tR7B8dE
>>65453433I can kinda imagine the propellant venting enough through a busted primer to throw the hammer back but then you've got to get the breach block open enough to let the brass out and not just enough to vent the pressure straight up through the walls of the brass. Maybe the firing pin got loose and shot right into the shooter's eye?
>>65452840This is a case of a faulty gun, not user error
>>65453433>I dont see how that could overcome the bolt thrust forcing the breechblock into the locking surfaces of the hammer.That's almost exactly the operating principle of thisI argue that the force exerted through the flash hole of a case is great enough to overcome the friction of the locking flap/lug in those wacky 1920s prototypes is analogous enough to the bolt thrust friction lock of a rolling block
>>65454918Not convinced. Those actions were designed SPECIFICALLY to work around that.
>>65452840>Shooting remanufactured 70+ year-old black powder surplus from the tropicsWew.>>65453433Safe bet.>>65454918>That's almost exactly the operating principle of this. I argue that the force exerted through the flash hole of a case is great enough to overcome the friction of the locking flap/lug in those wacky 1920s prototypes is analogous enough to the bolt thrust friction lock of a rolling blockYeah, nah. A major reason why primer-actuated designs were abandoned was because everyone was moving from hotter powders to slower powders to make better use of them fancy new pointed bullets and as a result the primers didn't get shat out with enough energy to reliably actuate the actions. They're also all very linear specifically for the mechanical advantage because primer actuation was dogshit to start with.The idea that the primer from a .43 Spanish would have the strength to unlock and open the breech enough to allow the casing to fly back in-line with the bore while not shattering the action in the process is also pretty silly on its face. I don't doubt that some shitty ancient ammo could possibly blow up but anything besides maybe hot gas causing an injury seems pretty remote and I'm sure that if his gun blew up he'd be crying about that in the lawsuit as well.
>>65454918Wouldn't result in injury for the same reason primer actuation works. By the time the breach opens the chamber pressure has dropped to safe levels.
>>65455536>Yeah, nah. A major reason why primer-actuated designs were abandoned was because everyone was moving from hotter powders to slower powders to make better use of them fancy new pointed bullets and as a result the primers didn't get shat out with enough energy to reliably actuate the actions. They're also all very linear specifically for the mechanical advantage because primer actuation was dogshit to start with.Yeah, same reason that the USN went with the bofors instead of GIANT MAXIM 2.0 , the IMR powder tech tree doesn't burn violently enough to properly work those kind of mechanisms
>>65453433>I think he probably got a hangfire, opened the breech, then it went offThat's exactly what happened. When I hear old shitty ammo that was stored improperly, I think hangfire. The natural response to a hangfire or a dud with a manually cocked weapon is to cock the hammer and hit it again. Unfortunately in this case, you're also unlocking the action.$10 says that wasn't the first shot of the string that hung on him, and that wasn't the first time he recocked the hammer and tried to fire it again. This was just the first time that he got unlucky with the timing.
The trapdoor is still way cooler
>>65449024Or until you unknowingly put a hot smokeless load in an old BP gun and the coroner has to fish a chunk of breech block out of your brain. (pic rel, yes that actual chunk of case-hardened iron came out of a dead teenager's skull)Rolling blocks are simple, but they aren't very strong.And the design offers zero features to protect the shooter if something goes wrong.Even early bolt action needle guns usually had features to deflect gasses away from the shooter, and some form of last ditch safety feature to prevent the bolt from burying into the shooter's gray matter if the locking lug(s) failed.
>>65459207Rolling blocks were pretty strong for their time. The problem is that it's a pre smokeless gun and smokeless powder is like 3-4 times as powerful as black powder. There are .30-06 rolling blocks but those had to be built for that kind of power.
>>65459236>Rolling blocks were pretty strong for their time.Were they really? I can't think of any weaker action that saw widespread military adoption at the time.All of the early bolt actions, most of which only feature a single locking lug, were still stronger.And while it's kinda sketchy, even "weak" black powder bolt actions like Vetterlis, 1874 Gras', and Mauser Model 1871s can be re-barreled for (moderately powerful) modern smokeless rifle cartridges with a reasonable safety margin.
In reality, your entire lockup strength is dependent on how strong the pin that the hammer pivots on is
In reality, your entire lockup strength is dependent on how strong the lugs that the bolt locks with are
>>65452281Have you ever been ice skating?
>>65459828I'm referring to the rolling block specifically
>>65459262>Were they really? I can't think of any weaker action that saw widespread military adoption at the time.Correct. However, for BP they were very much "good enough" and were capable of handling considerably more force than any of the immediately contemporary repeating rifles like the Spencer or Henry and was about on par with trapdoor or side-hinged actions. The big selling point was how cheap and rugged it was; it was less expensive than other rifles that could handle big-boy cartridges, was easier to repair, had less potential for fouling (powder or debris), had a very simple manual of arms and you could get it in whatever flavor you wanted.I would also point out that if you want to do some dick-measuring, falling blocks are still the king.
>>65459924I'm referring to locking-bolt actions specifically.
>>65459207That the swedish 12.17cf that some retard put a 500s&w in?
>>65459262>Were they really?Yes, they were. They were strong enough to make the jump to smokeless, with 7mm Mauser being a chambering offered by the factory. Pedersoli makes two models today with zamak receivers. Furthermore, the design scales if you want it stronger as the action strength is directly dependent on the thickness of the receiver sidewalls and the pins. The bigger you make it the stronger it gets, which is kind of a neat trick. >>65459935>was about on par with trapdoorThe fuck they were. All other things being equal (and they seldom are), rolling blocks are significantly stronger.
>>65460169what if we scaled up the rolling block to 50 BMGwould the breechblock have to be the size of your fist or something
>>65459963>brings up bolt actions out of the blue for no reason in the rolling block thread you been diagnosed yet?
>>65459991More or less correct.Kid found an old rifle and a box of random ammo in his grandpa's attic. Proceeded to try and shoot it with whatever round seemed to fit in the chamber.But It wasn't a .500S&W round. It was an older big game rifle round of some kind, maybe a .450 Nitro Express, which sounds even worse, but those operate at significantly lower pressures than .500S&W and don't achieve anywhere near full pressure combustion when fired in a bore that's so massively oversized.
>>65460259Don't engage with him, he's been trying to fuck with me.
>>65459375And they could easily be made an inch thick. The hammer's axle was way out in the stock so the only limit to it's bult was how much weight you wanted to add.
>>65460259I thought we were just making obvious, unhelpful statements about various types of actions.
>>65461338The steel itself has an elastic limit but you would need very high pressures before that was the limiting factor.
