theyre cool but not really necessary

>>65447105
They have benefits and drawbacks for civilians and military respectively.

They're a side grade, neither better nor worse. They are universally heavier than an equivalent DI rifle, but they might suppress better and there's a lot of conjecture about marginally better reliability; but that's such a difficult thing to substantiate.

>>65447105
I dont know enough about them to have an informed opinion but i will tell you i think they seem pretty gay

I don't like them. My first experience with guns was on a Sig 516 which is supposed to be an improvement upon the HK 416.
When I first shot a DI AR after having learned to shoot on the 516 I was shocked at how much less recoil there is when you don't have a bunch of extra metal reciprocating back and forth. Not to mention how much more pointable a DI AR is. It just seems like an affront to the original design to take a simple, lightweight rifle with a lightweight cartridge and add a bunch of mass, massively complicate maintenance, and require proprietary parts that cannot be serviced on your own.

When you'd get the 516 really hot it would start keyholing. Years ago on arfcom there was a post by the guy who runs Battlefield Las Vegas (full auto range) who said piston AR uppers always start keyholing at a certain round count while DI uppers are indestructible and can be rebarreled over and over as many times as needed with no effect on function.

My opinion is biased bc my boomer Uncle is vehemently opposed to DI and loves piston guns yet he's also the guy who has multiple $3k rifles with ACOG's or MRO's he's never zeroed and if I'd try to help him zero them he'd get upset and act like it will damage the optic if you try to adjust anything on it (his guns would all be hitting 6" to the right or left at 20yds...).

>>65447105
Against. DI is self-cleaning and short recoil is still more reliable than short stroke piston is. DI AR reliability has never been surpassed by any weapon, it's physically not possible

>More complicated
>More expensive
>Heavier
>Piston-pop
ooooh ahhhhh, so cool

>>65447115
I am just getting into the world of suppressors so I know fuck all about that aspect however I remember watching this vid years ago where this guy argued that piston guns are horrible hosts for suppressors and it's mostly fuddlore suggesting otherwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFRLk_rXINs

This was years before flow-through was a thing too so I would imagine this is even more true now that DI has become far less finnicky as far as tuning.

>>65447105
Good for 11.5" and under, especially with cans.
12.5", I could go either way.
Anything longer than that, DI wins.

The trick is dwell time and port pressure. Short barreled rifles tend to be overgassed to compensate for shorter dwell time, and they naturally have higher port pressures because the pressure hasn't had time to drop by the time it reaches the port on shorter barrels. Pistons handle this higher pressure better, especially since the good ones are vented forward (416/516/816).

They do run cleaner without a can, but with a can, the breech opens up sooner, which means shits just gets into your action via the barrel instead of the gas tube. This is mostly true of traditional cans, flow through do run clean-ish on pistons.

>>65447151
>short recoil
In what world is DI "shot recoil"...

>>65447230
>in what world is DI "short recoil"
It's not. It's saying short gas-piston is so overrated that even a short-recoil AR would have better reliability.

>>65447115
Piston AR's run better with shorter barrels period.

>>65447105
I prefer DI, or whatever Stoner's gas system is, since I find it easier to clean. Other than that, I don't have an issue with piston ARs.

>>65447105
>pros
More reliable with short barrels
(Maybe?) better suppressor hosts
>cons
Cost
Weight
Felt recoil
Carrier tilt (parts wear)
More shit to clean

I'm good without it

>>65447277
2010 called bro, they want their retarded fuddlore back

>>65447105
It's funny reading this thread and seeing all the people who fell for the like nearly 3 decade old HK sales pitch on external piston ARs, all of which the talking points of aren't true anymore if they even were to begin with. Short DI ARs run just fine especially today with modern coatings and understandings of gas systems, with or without suppressors. Low backpressure suppressors also render the sales pitch of piston guns invalid as well. All this talk of carbon being blown back into the system on a DI AR is absolutely retarded as well. Carbon itself can absolutely be a form of lubricant within the system, so the claim that a DI AR is self cleaning is vaguely true in the sense it will keep itself running with carbon in it. On top of that all it takes is a little lube added to said carbon to turn it into a smooth sludge that keeps things working just fine. Pistontards love to pretend like there aren't totally guys running suppressed 11.5 super duties with thousands and thousands of rounds through the gun with zero cleaning other than occasionally dropping a little lube in it MAYBE.

Fundamentally the problem with this debate is that 90% or more of pro-piston dorks do not even own an external piston AR and are just parroting HK marketing material they read on the Internet. There's also a ton of autists who legitimately just like the idea of a "piston" being in the gun because it's mechanically cool sounding, but then also refuse to understand that all ARs have a piston within the BCG which is way cooler than a big dumb redundant heavy assembly in the handguard

if the ukraine war is anything to go by
DI rifles that are "just as good" fail

Piston ars are cool when they take a folding stock but idk why you would want one if it still has a buffer tube.

>>65447105
i am for them, but just because I like different flavors. i'd get a long stroke piston system for an AR just because it sounds kinda neat.

i've got 5.56 and 7.62x39 uppers that use short stroke pistons. i've also got a 6.5 grendel upper and 308 AR-10 that are both DI.

I wouldn't say i notice a huge difference between the reliability or function one way or another.

>>65447105
Well, Sako is also making a DI version of its ARG so either they have lost their touch or we're finally approaching a point where a DI rifles can be reliable enough in extreme conditions

>>65447993
That's the civvie/competition rifle version

>>65448026
Ah, that explains it.
So yeah DI is still for toys.

The only drawback piston has that it's slightly less controllable due to more weight, more recoiling parts and worse weight distribution. Still, a 556 piston AR is a world ahead of a 762 RK.

>>65448026
The DI version is seeing use somewhere in the military, I think with the volunteers or something. It's a weird little corner that's using it
>>65447993
Yes they've been fine enough for awhile, especially with the correct cold weather lube. I believe Finland is actually considering the DI sako ARs while the Swede's main forces went with the piston version amusingly enough

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>>65447105
Why is a thin gauge tube too hard for Europeans to manufacture? We figured that shit out 70 years ago lmao.

>>65447137
>he's never zeroed and if I'd try to help him zero them he'd get upset and act like it will damage the optic if you try to adjust anything on it
What the actual fuck is wrong with these "people"?

>>65447137
>It just seems like an affront to the original design to take a simple, lightweight rifle with a lightweight cartridge and add a bunch of mass, massively complicate maintenance, and require proprietary parts that cannot be serviced on your own.
And all to get around what? The gas tube's marginal increases to heat and gas blowback? It's so stupid for the downsides. I also learned recently that DI guns actually use gas pressure to hold the bolt forward until pressure drops, to reduce wear on the lugs. Piston guns have thicker lugs because the lugs just have to eat all the force.

>>65447677
>DI rifles that are "just as good" fail
I think this was already fairly known, just not well known to the goyish masses who would deny it anyway out of cope. All the JAG stuff will fail somewhere or other more often than not if you A.) get it fairly hot and B.) shoot it more than 1500 rounds total. Amerimoids just don't do either of these things to 75% of purchased JAG rifles, and do both even less often.

>>65448067
I suspect it's their own version of military fuddlore. They've used exclusively piston stuff since adopting the FAL or replacing the G3 depending on the country. Idk if there's a single Euro country that ever used DI ARs. Hence the weird obsession with piston IMO. Their rarity I'm sure also amplifies every negative myth surrounding DI to the extreme, like how piston ARs were sacred cows here until we actually got ahold of them. Piston was just lucky enough to come after and be able to control the narrative with their few pros while not mentioning the many cons.

>>65447105
I understand it's mostly negatives all the way down but my LWRC SPR was the first AR I bought and blowing gas into the chamber seems barbaric now.

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>>65447137
I think "massively complicate maintenance" is a bit exaggerated.

>>65448706
Sir there are at minimum three parts in your image that need to be pulled and have the carbon removed from them vs a gas tube which you literally never have to touch due to magic. Said piston parts are also coated with hardened carbon. It probably doubles cleaning time for a non-intensive clean.

>>65448695
>DI
>blowing gas into the chamber
are you retarded

>>65448668
>like how piston ARs were sacred cows here until we actually got ahold of them
The carrier tilt memes were peak. But even when you don't deal with that, the whole package is, at best, a sidegrade. Even shooting the most lauded specimen was a thoroughly mid experience, and actually worse when suppressed.

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>>65447105
Intermediate rifles for americans who recognize that DI is no longer the optimum but cannot accept that the general AR15 layout also isn't.
The best of these transitional rifles (if you disregard the retarded calibre and associated choices) is the XM7, which even has dual charging handles front and back.

>>65448668
idk if you count it since theres a couple caveats but UK marines adopted the KS-1 from knight's

>>65448668
>piston supremacy is just yuro fuddlore
That actually makes alot of sense. When we got flooded with noguns yuronigger tourists they came into a bunch of threads spouting absolute retardation the likes I couldn't of ever imagined. They still do it but they toned it down a little bit. That's the only reasonable explanation for this sensibility they have
>>65448773
Ya it's funny that the vast majority of piston guns were worse to shoot suppressed than DI because it still takes a dedicated suppressed setting to be worth anything at all, and even then they still screw it up alot of the time. Pretty much the only thing piston has over DI is a slight increase in reliability in extreme freezing conditions due to the violent action, and even then the use of cold weather lube puts DI ARs very very close in terms of performance so it's a bit of a wash these days. What's annoying is that many elements of the US military still pretend like it's 2001 and the M4A1 is a broke piece of shit and we need a piston gun to fix it, and not just a .20 cent spring upgrade like what actually happened to prevent us from mass adopting the 416 initially

>>65449258
Sako also has a DI AR and I think I saw WBP is making one as well. They are becoming more common as yurop looks to the US for inspiration now that guns are cool because muh heckin ruzzins. The reality is that DI ARs will eventually dominate over there due to the fact that they are cheaper to produce and function about the same

>>65448630
He owns 40+ guns probably worth ~$25k total and was in the Marines (reconnaissance). He's also a Brittingham fanboy.
When I'd try to convince him to go to the range with me he'd say he didn't want to bc he didn't want to clean his guns after. The one time he agreed to go I bought him a 50rd box of Magtech brass-cased .300blk as thanks for letting me shoot his suppressed Rattler (unzeroed RMR on it btw) and he felt the need to inform me he'd never use it because it's "dirty ammo."

>>65449340
Your dad sounds SEVERELY autistic, like not in a good way. You should probably do nothing about it but if you feel like you really need to then maybe mention it to him, the fact he is severely autistic. Bro needs to lighten up. I bet he doesn't even know what he guns can really do because of his crippling autism. You need to steal his guns and zero them and all against his will and put some serious rounds through them

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>>65449412
He's my uncle but now that you mention it you are probably right, idk how that never occurred to me.
>You need to steal his guns and zero them and all against his will and put some serious rounds through them
Funny you mention that. He moved to the Phillipines ~2yrs ago and left all of his guns with his brother except picrel which he left with me. Said he would add me to his trust and leave the suppressors with me so I got prints done and everything, then at the last second he changed his mind and decided to pay an FFL to hold onto them. I've never shot picrel bc I don't own anything in .30 cal so I didn't want to buy my own can for them and .300blk is pointless w/o one, however now that you mention it maybe I should zero them out of spite and just buy my own cheap .30 cal can especially now that there's no tax. I was just going through the garage at my parents place a few days ago and saw he left maybe 1.5-2k rounds of .300blk.
You know what, I think I will do that anon. I've got these lemons so let's make some fuckin' lemonade.

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>>65449564
>I'll write you into my trust
>actually nvm I'll let some total literal who strangers hold onto them for me
Your uncle is CRIPPLINGLY autistic and you absolutely fuck with him as much as possible out of spite for him being a scumbag to you. The fact he moved to the Philippines of all places doubly gives you reason to do so, what a boomer piece of shit retard faggot. You should lie and use whatever deception possible to get all his guns so you can actually get some use out of them. He is probably drowning in mid pussy in the peens so go for it, he'll probably never see any of that shit again anyways

>>65449564
>He moved to the Phillipines
Of all the bullshit Boomers are prone to do in life this one aways fucking kills me.

>>65449630
it's the classic move for the ones that really fucked up in life
>>65449412
>Your dad sounds SEVERELY autistic, like not in a good way.
he might be but honestly this sounds like the usual male white boomer tendency to absorb/fabricate abject falsehoods and convince themselves it's true just because they think it makes sense (and there's no way they would ever be wrong about anything).

>>65449564
>braced .300 Rattler w/ singlepoint sling and RMR mounted on an ANVIL mount
Incredible

>>65449598
I appreciate the motivation, I will do just that. His brother lives ~7hr drive from me so I will link up with him and see if I can help him around his farm in exchange for some gats. He left a Scar-17 w/ ta31, x95 w/ mepro, 3 FAL's, 3 Garand's, Hipower, still-in-the-fucking-plastic-wrap D60 mag, SLR107R, just to name a few.
>this sounds like the usual male white boomer tendency to absorb/fabricate abject falsehoods and convince themselves it's true just because they think it makes sense (and there's no way they would ever be wrong about anything).
100%, he frequently has these firearm takes he's absolutely certain of despite having no fucking clue what he's talking about. He also likes to defer to whatever Brittingham says about anything. Hilariously he sent me a grok response to "what does Brittingham think of flow-through" to passive aggressively tell me I was wrong for being interested in getting, then less than 24hrs after he sent me this Brittingham posted his yt video announcing he was caving and making a flow through can.
>>65449630
He's already popped out a little one over there and is now funding the GF's entire family lol. He is the epitome of a boomer.

>>65447137
>My first experience with guns was on a Sig 516 which is supposed to be an improvement upon the HK 416.
>sig
>supposed to be an improvement
Lol
Lmao

>>65449756
Sig is shit, but the 516 was developed by Robert Hirt who was one of the principal engineers at H&K who helped develop the 416 before moving to Sig. He added an AGB, reduced visual gas signature and reduced the number of proprietary parts.
Then Sig opted for a railed gas block and a fucking bayonet lug that made the gun age horribly.

>>65449340
>When I'd try to convince him to go to the range with me he'd say he didn't want to bc he didn't want to clean his guns after.
Never learned anything about a gun that wasn't ancient military fuddlore award. Magtech is some dogshit ammo though for the record.

>>65449598
How important to him were his guns to begin with if he moved to the Phillipines were he couldn't have them?

>>65449651
>sounds like the usual male white boomer tendency to absorb/fabricate abject falsehoods and convince themselves it's true just because they think it makes sense (and there's no way they would ever be wrong about anything).
Is it bad I got out of my way to turbo humiliate boomers who do this? I just counter autism them by refusing to stop talking about it no matter how uncomfortable they get while casually knowledge dumping everything to casually show I know infinitely more about the subject. It's just so cathartic because it isn't like they'll do anything about it, they just turn beet red and you can tell that this inconsequential interaction is going to eat at them for days if not weeks.

I just hate them, they aren't real men, they're like ten year olds who never got told no. I can almost sympathize with feminists, I'd want a divorce from one of these retards too.

>>65449702
>He's already popped out a little one over there and is now funding the GF's entire family lol
GAS. Holy living stereotype, thank you gen x/boomers for adding legalized brown people to this country as many times as humanly possible.

Anon do whatever you like with the guns, this guy will likely never return and if he does say you sold them like he sold out his race and nation. I wish I was a heeb and could live in Israel away from all this goyish nonsense and have the US as my slave.

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>>65449702
>He's already popped out a little one over there and is now funding the GF's entire family lol. He is the epitome of a boomer.
Kill this man anon, you have an obligation to become his enemy as much as possible. Loot as much as his shit as possible with impunity to your conscience, he has already done the same to your heritage and I mean this with no hint of irony

>>65449949
Just a random thought I had but this is definitely one of the boomers who will start giving me the stink eye at the range because I was able to actually figure out how to zero my scope. Boomers will really be too prideful to ever ask someone how to zero a scope but will resent you because you know how to zero yours.

>>65449340
Anon from too much thinking about boomer psychology I can tell you as a fact he doesn't want you to zero his shit for him because it'll make him feel emasculated. Shit that doesn't even cross the younger generation's mind (because they're more concerned with having fun with a zeroed optic or whatever) is some crippling ego complex for boomers. They won't blink at bringing some jungle monkey home to their white family though. Wtf man

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>>65449930
> I just counter autism them by refusing to stop talking about it no matter how uncomfortable they get while casually knowledge dumping everything to casually show I know infinitely more about the subject.
This is exactly what I did. He also mentioned he was interested in getting thermal and I took pleasure in pointing out to him its illegal there.
>How important to him were his guns to begin with if he moved to the Phillipines where he couldn't have them?
I think the telling part is that he'd rather the cans sit on a shelf than let me use them - which I wouldn't have even minded if he hadn't wasted my time asking me to get printed and photographed. He never fired his Scar+acog ONE FUCKING TIME, same goes for half his guns. Met his now GF on IG of all places. I have to admit she is attractive though and I'm not even into asians.
>Kill this man anon
fucking kek
>Loot as much as his shit as possible with impunity to your conscience, he has already done the same to your heritage and I mean this with no hint of irony
I appreciate the encouragement. Boomers really are not human. My friend's vietnam-vet green beret dad is even worse (wrote his illegal immigrant employees into his will and handed them the family business). This same boomer would get angry at his son for laughing when we were kids and also made us drive down to North Cacalaca to build an "after school learning center" for ungrateful niggers when we were ~14 so he could frame a photo of his son with a gaggle of groids and say he was changing the world. The building is obviously not there anymore btw, nor are the computers.
>>65449991
Exactly, it's like trying to understand a different species. Unbelievable how much cognitive dissonance is required for these fuckers to claim younger generations are soft.

>>65450068
>My friend's vietnam-vet green beret dad is even worse (wrote his illegal immigrant employees into his will and handed them the family business).
Was this just the goddamn television for 50 years? How do you go from certified 'Nam hardass to fucking over your own flesh and blood for some brown person who you employed because they were cheaper than an American? Then they act like it's some kind of incredible cultural virtue that Mexicans work hard or whatever when they're working hard because they're making 10x what they would in their country per hour and this might go away at any time.

>I think the telling part is that he'd rather the cans sit on a shelf than let me use them - which I wouldn't have even minded if he hadn't wasted my time asking me to get printed and photographed. He never fired his Scar+acog ONE FUCKING TIME
Forgot to even mention that part because I was so disgusted by the Philippines bit. I've seen this before but don't really know what the fuck it is with refusing to lend you their shit. Doesn't matter if you're going to be entirely responsible with it, they unironically have trouble sharing their toys like a spoiled child. I'm also pretty sure that about half of the guns sold in the US that cost over $2000 are the exact same story/condition of your uncle's SCAR. Boomers unironically think they're flexing or whatever (I think). It's pretty hilarious though because no matter what side of the cheap gun vs gucci gun argument you're on, no one respects someone who doesn't shoot at all and has a $6000 dollar build that isn't zeroed. Shows how unbelievably materialistic and shallow they are though that they think it's impressive to have an overpriced paperweight they don't know how to operate.

Bizarre aversion to just googling shit too. I think the ego insecurity is so deep they can't even go through the humiliation of having to learn something in private (They should already know it because they're the greatest man on earth).

>>65447105
I'm absolutely for them and I maintain that InRange's mud test has no practical validity whatsoever and piston-ARs will outperform Stoner's gas impingement ARs in any real world scenario, when it comes to running dirty.

>>65450110
I agree on the inrange test being useless.
I would like to see some evidence backing up your claim though, or at least anecdotal evidence from soldiers who fielded both. From what little I've read the main takeaway from guys who have used both 416/URGI or m27/m4 is just the weight, then the ROF. But the weight issue is complicated by m27 being an absurd setup that's not indicative of piston uppers in general between the vcog/nt4/quadrail/16.5".
Maybe we'll get a more clear picture on this as HICAR rolls out and its fielded alongside URGI as that's a much more fair comparison weight wise than obese m27 vs m4.
>>65450091
>Bizarre aversion to just googling shit too. I think the ego insecurity is so deep they can't even go through the humiliation of having to learn something in private
True, and this is interesting because they love deferring to the glorified google search of AI. I imagine their TV programmed minds were conditioned to appeal to authority at a young age and AI removes the critical thinking involved with browsing different sites / forums and determining which information can be trusted or not, as well as the humbling elements of that process.

>>65450110
>piston-ARs will outperform Stoner's gas impingement ARs in any real world scenario, when it comes to running dirty
This is mostly because every single one needs to run faster and harder due to being piston. This usually comes with a stronger return spring to try to reduce wear. This does increase reliability but at cost of increased recoil and decreased parts life. You can also just do this to a DI AR by having it slightly overgassed and putting a Geissele Super 42 in it. It'll still have way less recoil while more or less having all the benefits of le piston.
>>65450217
>I imagine their TV programmed minds were conditioned to appeal to authority at a young age
Definitely factually accurate. I've had them try to tell me that the guy at the gun store counter knew better than I did with my examples n facts n shit because...he works in a gun store how could he not be an authority figure? Why would you question authority figure? It's not like his bonus today counts on you buying this gun he's lying to you about.

Thank god they were so retarded the next generations seem to be utterly repulsed by all of their personality traits.

The absolute last time I was nice to a boomer several years ago
>at gunshow
>boomer has bakelite 7.62 mag
>ask how much
>"I don't even know what it is"
>tell him it's a bakelite AK mag
>he asks how much they're worth
>I lie to him because I'm already irritated he wants me to price his item for him
>say 40-60 (they were actually like 70-90)
>he refuses to go below 50
>still buy it because it was a good deal
I should've told him fifteen bucks, fucking cocksucking boomer can't identify the 2nd most common type of AK mag, doesn't even have a general price then wants me to meet him in the middle on my estimate. No mercy ever again.

>>65448067
>>65448668
>>65449271
It's extremely obvious why Europeans prefer pistons if you've seen how their militaries are run and how their soldiers are trained. Euro armies are by-the-books, sticklers to entirely hypothetical doctrines and procedures that they have no choice but to practice because a)small budget b)single terrain c)preparing for basically a single specific scenario that is an all or nothing invasion.

A piston is good for tinkering, you're not supposed to but in theory you can adapt it to unforeseen situations you might face, but whether they ever will they don't actually know. You can adjust it to in theory be more forgiving. You also have a working part that is separate from the actual "guts" of the gun that can be itemized, procured and modified, and that looks good for a cheapskate government.

There's also the fact that they're concerned with really strange and dumb things like rifle grenades and maybe trying to make the money back selling it and supporting a random third world army's procurement. It's a lot easier to tell some African country "maybe use this gas setting" than "stop using shit ammo" or "clean your gun properly".

>>65448051
>The DI version is seeing use somewhere in the military, I think with the volunteers or something.
MPK isn't military, they're a civilian voluntary defence organization the military doesn't actually like all that much. That said I don't think DI or piston matter that much, my qualms about adopting an AR are related to the weapon construction in general instead. Stamped RKs were mostly withdrawn because they couldn't take abuse by conscripts, whatever makes the bigwigs think an aluminum rifle can

>>65450573
Wtf do you even break on an RK? The things are notoriously overbuilt beasts.

doesnt the 416 look cooler than the AR15 though? like isnt the M27 is like the sexiest gun ever made

>>65450589
They tried adopting a stamped version in the 70's but it proved too fragile for conscript use.
Now they're adopting an AR-15 LMAO.

>>65450738
At least you can replace every single part on an AR15 with only handtools and a YT video, as opposed to AK derivatives which is going to require a skilled armorer and a bunch of heavy tooling.

>>65450704
Imagine talking about aesthetics with a post that looks so plebeian.

>>65450704
no

>>65452414
you're not supposed to replace stuff on aks, you just discard the rifle wholesale and get a new one when something breaks/wears out

>>65449881
Yeah that's kind of my point. It doesn't matter who designed it if Sig built it.
Iirc he jumped ship again to the UAE/Haenel Caracal Car816 because third time's the charm, I guess.

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>>65450704
Not even one of the best looking ARs.

>>65452862
>soft jazz playing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fir_9uB7cBk

>>65452709
Considering that they still cost as much as an AR, that's a retarded idea

>>65453138
They don't when you have invincible soviet tooling that seems to never wear out and factories built around them with production perfected. Thirdies will still buy Russian AKs to an extent because they're sub $200 USD last I heard. Remember here in the US, a WASR is still only like what, $900? And what's after the importer and reseller both take their cut. They aren't expensive guns to produce when you have eastern euro labor prices and skillsets. Americans just cannot into handfitting because our labor rate and manufacturing skillsets don't support it. We got too good at CNC go brrrr here is in spec part and the old school stuff is turning into 40k tech.

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The best AR variant is a piston AR.

>>65452414
At least in the US army complete assemblies are discarded and replaced. For example nobody changes out just the bolt, the whole BCG goes.

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>>65447151
>shits where it eats
>self-cleaning

>>65453472
I like it tumbles rounds instead of spinning them. Very implessive.

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>literally every JSOC around the world
vs
>a bunch of terminally online autists

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>>65447160
>t.

>>65453700
Saar is very clean saar. Most clean and holy like sacred river Ganges very much jai shree ram

>>65453842
There is only one JSOC you dumb cocksucker

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>>65453842
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5FHNGDUvxA
Seems good to me.

>>65447105
what is that mag and where can i get it

>>65453922
Not watching your vid. But when the DoD does a test they generally grab the current issued rifle off the rack and put it up against a brand new competitor rifle.

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>improves your AR15

>>65454769
>not downvented to prevent port pop
I'll stick with the Griffin knockoff.

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>>65454015
HK gen 3 polymer magazine.

>>65447105
DI is lighter with softer recoil and now with flow through suppressors pistons are useless

>>65453853
I have a FAL and I look like this
I don't know why it inspires so much seethe in no-FALs

>>65452414
Yeah but... it's a military, they have skilled armorers and everything

>>65455580
Yeah but it's cheaper and easier to train and maintain a rifle that requires
>a vise
>a special wrench
>standard punches
>standard screws and hex keys
vs
>all those tools plus
>a press
>files
>various specialty gauges
>handfitting for part replacement
>probably triple the time to do any procedure more intensive than changing the extractor

You can replace literally any part in an AR15 in under an hour with a half decent setup.

>>65455885
You have no idea what you are talking about.

people who say that piston systems are more complex, do they even realize how a DI bolt works?
if anything they are about the same but pistons move that "complexity" forward.

>>65456390
Except that " frontal piston" guns can be built CHEAPER than AR15's. The machining tolerances of the AR15's bolt and gas system are insane, there's a reason it took nearly 40 years for prices to come down.

>>65456404
don't disagree but I don't think DI is any worse if it's actually using quality parts, just different.
the hk416 having german build quality and coming with some of the best barrels along with having everything run so much harder, raping your average DI AR in terms of real world reliability really brainwashed people into thinking pistons are inherently better.

>>65456314
Oh yeah, what part? Cuz I've built plenty of ARs and watched AKs get built and those are the required tools for each. But go ahead and tell me where I'm wrong, retard.

>>65456404
>The machining tolerances of the AR15's bolt and gas system are insane
So is a piston system you fucking retard, the DI system isn't any harder to make and both require a hard to make, weird bolt.
>there's a reason it took nearly 40 years for prices to come down.
Double mongoloid. It took that long because the gun was expensive to make for the time, Colt held the patent for 17 years, and then it took a while beyond that for other manufacturers to figure out the secret Colt tolerances and production methods because they weren't going to share the lore on their flagship rifle.

If Colt had released the TDP in the 70s any major manufacturer in the US could've made to-spec AR15s.

>>65456390
>if anything they are about the same but pistons move that "complexity" forward.
Go learn how a 416 works before commenting again. It has the piston, the piston linkage, and the return spring for the linkage. There are no additional parts related to operation inside a DI carrier vs a piston one. Technically the DI has gas rings on the bolt head's tail but the 416 has these on the piston anyway) DI has a gas straw that touches the BCG.

Do not make me open World of Autism and make an annotated image about this.

>>65456404
Gotta be one of the dumbest posts I've seen on /k/ in awhile

>>65457739
>So is a piston system you fucking retard
A gas piston system inherently has significantly larger clearances and tolerances.
The AR-15 DI system is working with such a miniscule amount of gas, being so far away, that it cannot afford to waste any, which is why it uses piston rings and why the bolt carrier bore surface quality is such a critical factor for reliability.
Many piston guns get away with using just a simple cylinder piston with a loose sliding fit to the gas cylinder.

>>65447105
for since I never use an unsuppressed ar

>>65447105
Man, those fold down sights are ugly

>>65447105
my understanding is the only reason the 416 beats standard DI for an automatic rifle role was just because the replacement area for the gas bloc was better shaped and beefier than DI's and the piston acts as a heat sink. I think DI's that have enhanced gas blocs perform more or less the same

>>65458311
>A gas piston system inherently has significantly larger clearances and tolerances.
Source? Any source?
>The AR-15 DI system is working with such a miniscule amount of gas, being so far away, that it cannot afford to waste any
Holy fucking retard. Do you own a gun? Are you some Euro who's never touched one trying to pretend you know how they work? The only place for gas to leak is at the point the gas block meets the gas tube, and judging by the fact this area isn't coated in carbon, or unsafe to put your hand near, it isn't leaking even 5% of the gas. And what the fuck would the distance have to do with anything? You can just tune the port size to account for any additional volume you have to fill, which is largely irrelevant considering you have access to enormous amounts of high pressure gas.
>which is why it uses piston rings
I can tell you as a fact both the AUG and 416 have gas rings too, and they're like half an inch from where the gas port is on the barrel. Gas rings are there to make a proper seal, not due to this idiocy you're spouting.
>and why the bolt carrier bore surface quality is such a critical factor for reliability.
Incredible how garbage companies like PSA and Anderson who fail badly on School of the American Rifle can still run reliably if that's the case. Oh wait no you're just a retard, they turn up the gas and shitty machining is barely relevant.
>Many piston guns get away with using just a simple cylinder piston with a loose sliding fit to the gas cylinder.
That's called a longstroke piston, you stupid nigger. You forgo the gas rings and separate piston in favor of ridiculously overgassing the thing to make it run. That isn't what anyone has been talking about the whole thread.

GB2R, that is where it's socially acceptable to spout misinfo while having zero knowledge base. Here I can call you a stupid fucking nigger and inform you the world would be better off with you hanging from a ceiling fan.

>>65447105
Its better to drop the gas tube, and convert it into direct blowback by integrating the buffer and BCG.

It's a little extra weight for not more, but a different kind of reliability (not cleaning it)

>>65450294
I had a similar experience at a gun show.
>see ak mag
>marked for $50
>ask why is it $50?
>vietnam war bring back from north korea. I know what I got, bro. Look what it says on the baseplate!
>it's a KCI with "made in Korea" on the baseplate

>>65455580
they have a 19 year old who has been there for 9 months

>>65447105
Im forgainst them.

>>65460789
The guys doing the barrel swaps and shit have been in for ages, they aren't conscripts. Idk how it's now but they had some conscripted assistants around when my dad was in, but that was 50 years ago

>>65460457
A personal favorite is to offer a handsomely jewish price for a box of ammo with dust all over it knowing they'll seethe at it. Keeping waiting for someone to pay $40 for a box of .357 from 1982.

>>65456314
You are a yuroshart noguns who is out of his element. I have owned both style of rifle and done maintenance on both. I have built at least half a dozen ARs, they are super easy to put together. I've got all the parts for an AK still sitting in my room not assembled because it's a massive intrusive ass pain to have one assembled, and assembling one well is another colossal pain in the dick

>>65460338
This is true and I sorta forgot about this. I think nowadays that's the only leg up the piston system has over DI. Geissele was experimenting with a full auto improved setup upper using DI and ok the burn down tests it scored just under a 416 clone, so while it won't go as long as an external piston system likely due to the heat sink of the external piston, it will be lighter and less parts complex, which I do think is an advantage

>>65461126
You are a stupid civilian who has no idea how military small arms maintenance works.
No armorer is going to be stamping and riveting AK receivers and pressing in barrels.

>>65461180
You are a stupid Euro from a joke military who relies on the US to do literally anything for you. Check your privilege when you're talking to the people who kept you from being Russia's bitch.

And so you're saying your armorers can't replace anything but extractors and recoil springs? No wonder you throw the guns away when anything goes bad. Very impressive too it's only the old heads with such arcane knowledge.

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>>65460389
>Source? Any source?
We're not on fucking reddit you retard, go take a look at your AK, the piston freely slides into the gas block.
>The only place for gas to leak
I'm not talking about gas leaking. Try breathing through a straw and you'll know that I'm talking about. Besides that, the gas tube/gas key interface is yet another critical surface requiring small clearance and tight tolerances.
>You can just tune the port size to account for any additional volume you have to fill, which is largely irrelevant considering you have access to enormous amounts of high pressure gas.
If you have a leaky system and you compensate by just introducing more gas you end up with massive amounts of gas in the user space which is unacceptable, hence why small clearances and tight tolerances are mandatory in the AR-15 gas system.
>I can tell you as a fact both the AUG and 416 have gas rings too
Yeah and? They were designed that way, but it is a fact that piston guns do not inherently need them and most often do not have them.
>Incredible how garbage companies like PSA and Anderson who fail badly on School of the American Rifle can still run reliably if that's the case. Oh wait no you're just a retard, they turn up the gas and shitty machining is barely relevant.
Lmaooo yeah just turn up the gas bro it's fine...
>That's called a longstroke piston
The stroke doesn't define the piston head design, go check out the piston on an M1 Carbine.
>You forgo the gas rings and separate piston in favor of ridiculously overgassing the thing to make it run
Two things that are not related in the way you think they are. The AK is overgassed (ie. BCG velocity very high) for reliability reasons, in fact a lossy/leaky gas system results in completely the opposite, ie. undergassing.

>>65447137
Battlefield LV also is full of ree ree's that repair their guns worse than Marine Armorers.

My roll your own piston AR15 is at 11.5K and doesn't keyhole,

It's not the piston's fault if they keyhole, it's them shooting shot out barrels with no rifling, and I woiuldn't be surprised if they are using non-chrome lined barrels like nitride and because they allow people to shoot them like an LMG like a tard that they ae loosing rifling.

Don't triple mag dump anything on FA that's not designed to be an IAR and you'll be fine.

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>>65448742
*Looks at my AA piston which I haven't cleaned for over 8k rounds, 4k of it suppressed*

No they don't. They can even see the gasblock area of my barrel is coated with soot that just keeps getting ejected out the piston.