Could a european combined army defeat defeat russia in an invasion?
>>65451389how is that even a question, russia can't even beat one european country
>>65451394Because the defender always has an advantage, in this case they would be the defender.
>>65451394Also dont act like the massive western aide doesnt have anything to do with it, which in this scenario is of course also a given.
The Eu cannot even protect its borders.
>>65451405Can't /=/ won'tThe people youre referring to were let in deliberately by it' (((owners)))
>>65451389Almost definitely. Until the nukes start flying, hence why noone would try.
>>65451403>The massive Western aidethe CIA man giving Ukraine coordinates for Russian generals isn't THAT pudgy.
Guessing this is gonna be the new thread for Achmad to seethe in. Getting comfy and making popcorn to enjoy his meltfest with.
>>65451403>Massive western aideWe sent HIM!?
>>65451389Just Finland and Poland could do it.
>>65451491Sending Boris "TZD" Jonson would be a war crime.
>>65451399If the EU put its economic weight towards strategic cruise missiles as ukraine does russia would be ruined in short order. Not to mention air power and total naval blockade in the west.Tactically speaking, the EU would probably take some time to get up to ukrainians standards when it comes to using drones. Maybe a year. After which they could overpower and steadily conquer russia (until the nukes start flying). Right now (say, with 2 months preparation), EU conventional forces could probably force entry into russia but would be costly and be stopped well before moscow is in range.
>>65451389That's a complex question that is totally dependent on the circumstances in which it takes place. Russia has a large nuclear stockpile, so assuming that a partial or total system collapse hasn't already happened then it would be very costly to try. If however a Soviet Union type collapse has occurred where the government has failed and the command structure is in disarray then an invasion would at least be partially successful. Russia wouldn't be able to maintain control over its territory and the infighting would leave them vulnerable. Ultimately the conditions in which the scenario takes place will greatly affect the outcome. This is also why many people are concerned that when Putin dies the succession process may lead to a very dangerous situation where rogue commanders or oligarchs may try and seize power. This is something that has been wargamed constantly since at least the late 1980's. It's nearly impossible to predict what the outcome will be. This seems like a question more suitable for /pol/ than /k/.
>>65451487More like 90 billion € every few months courtesy of the german taxpayer
>>65451389yes, not just hypothetically but theoretically and in practice, too.
>>65451389As long as they were smart about it; European F-35s alone could drop every road and rail bridge being used for resupply, which would stall out an invasion pretty quickly.
>>65451557>TZD coming so cheaplyIt's an amazing dream come true
>>65451594True germoids have alot more to give, these cucks are like medieval peasants >ooohhh sire the harvest was so bad i cannot pay my taxesWhile riding around in a brand new carriageFuck germans so hard man
>>65451567Why would europeans destroy their own resupply lines, no they would need to send commandos to stop russians from destroying the infrastructure on their retreat
>>65451685Lol, so mad
>>65451697I hate them but soon we will cuck them out of every job or woman or anything they desire. We can just scream "diskriminierung" and germcucks lose their jobs no questions asked lmao fuck them
per zaluzhny, everything from europe is pretty shitty, except maybe for whatever f-35s they bought from the USA and whatever aircraft carriers they might deploy. I expect any hypothetical european army to get its shit rocksd
>>65451770>zaluzhnyThe russian vatnik zigger? Lmao you tell on yourself russoid
>>65451779probably the general, anon...I still disagree with him but I can see some of his point. Numbers do matter, and Ukraine isn't getting enough to turn the tide. Europe does, though.
>>65451785Ok so anyways if youre russian and you want to make alot of bank go to germany and start any business where germcucks have to spend many years to actually get certified to do and then just do it and when someone says>hey youre not qualified to do thatCall him a racist who is discriminating against you and he will lose his job. Its easy
>>65451796>>65451729Why are brownoids so bad at trolling? Way too obvious
>>65451802Lmao do you think this doesnt happen? Doesnt even your Russia Today keep talking abojt this? But of course it would never mention that its the russians that are screaming discrimination and cucking the germans out of their jobTranskate picrel into your subhuman runes you fucking russian scum
>>65451770and other fantasies you can tell yourself.
>>65451770>per zaluzhny, everything from europe is pretty shittyI also like to make things up.
>>65451729>angry seething loser tries to pretend his is in a position of power everlol
>>65451811your incomprehensible seething and attempts to pretend to be different nationalities have failed ziggie.>nu/pol/ screenshotnot going to read it, now go back.
>>65451389What year?
>>65451389Of course that depends on the circumstances, but it was was definitely possible in WW2. Germany was doing the brunt in the OTL (10-12 Million German Soldiers compared to 5 Million other Axis members) while also dealing with the US and Britain. Napoleon also got close, even if you want to say that he and Hitler were doomed to lose they posed enough of a threat to be considered an existential enemy. Generally, until 1944 an united and fully mobilised Europe would have always have steamrolled Russia.
>>65451389Poland alone could raze Moscow in 2026.Only the fear of the nukes they still may have are preventing Russia being treated like Serbia in 1999
>>65451822the comment in question from zaluzhny was basically:1. we got everything short of f-35s, tomahawks, carriers and nukes2. russia countered all of itpersonally I don't get why zaluzhny considers f-35s and carriers to be significant, but whatever
>>65452035Russia countered javelins and HIMARS by no longer having armor or ammunition stock piles, very clever.
>>65451389>>654513996 years ago it would be pretty hard for the EU to annex Russia, today Russia has 4,400 less tanks, 8,900 less IFVs, 1,000 less SPGs & 600 less MLRSs.
>>65452070Russia is still winning so it must have worked
>>65452101
>>65451389>Could a european combined army defeat defeat Mozambique in an invasion?That's the level of your question. Russia is a minor power.
>>65452101Russia has been losing territory for months, no?
Anyone have any decent EU prop in their folders?
>>65452178>UK is EU homelandGross.
>>65452184Scotch whiskey should be a EU product, sold to the world.
>>65451389I don't think so. Russia have been fighting a modern, drone-focused war for years now, while Europe is stuck with conventional equipment and tactics. Maybe with an overwhelming desert storm type coordinated attract executed perfectly destroying all Russian assets in first hours of an invasion, but it's not easy to pull that off.
>>65452168deepstate disagreed with the ISW on this. frontline movement data can be noisy due to the tendency for bullshit like flag-raising ops, but the bigger picture is that russia takes more and more land each year.
>>65452234btw deepstate is responsible for this gem: "russia is winning to trick us into thinking that they're winning. don't be fooled"not that it matters much, I just found it to be extremely funny cope
>>65451389>while Europe is stuck with conventional equipment and tacticsEurope is also stuck with a much superior airforce that can bomb all the Russian drone positions.
>>65452243>>65452232oops
>>65451389On paper and in practice, they can. but the current form of liberalism they're stuck in won't allow them. (I'm not a russian shill) It's pretty obvious that the current governmental systems most of Europe is operating under don't allow for any form of militarization, as well as having a political apparatus that's completely opposed to it.
>>65451389Didn’t work in WWII. Didn’t work in 1812. I think today might go better than those two times, but is otherwise fraught with problems.
>>65452243geg no, russia has actual bombers and europe does not
>>65452313
>>65452235Are you retarded? That's not saying "russia is winning to trick us into thinking that they're winning. don't be fooled", it's saying "russia has chosen to trade excessive amounts of materiel and men to retain ground to make it appear that enemy actions did not have an effect, when in practice this means they had more and larger effects than they would otherwise have had but those effects will occur in depth". And that's what we did see - total artillery death, total tank death and total air defence cuckoldry happened because of the policy of throwing them into the meatgrinder in the greyzone, which created opportunities in depth for attacks on refineries and the invasion of Kursk.>>65452234Cope. Russia is losing ground despite having traded its entire inherited Soviet arsenal and a million men to get it.
>>65451802>>65451828I don't think hes brown, he reminds me of this Slovak or Slovenian zigger from years ago the way he types
>>65452313Bombers? Where are they?
>>65452313>actual bombersDon't care enough to factcheck, in any case it doesn't matter because ye olde f-16 can carry plenty of ordinance in itself, and actually hit the damn target too.
>>65452854Oh you can find them all over the place. Often in multiple places at once.
>>65451529It would be funny when they try to find a nuke that actually works that they can send. Would be good for a dark comedy, like a Coen brothers.
Europe doesn't have the numbers to attack russia conventionally. Too much territory to cover even if you only count the way to Moscow.Defence against a Russian invasion would be easy mode though.
>>65452888This was the first steamed hams meme I've seen that wasn't even slightly funny
>>65452895I think it's quite good.
>>65452348>Are you retarded? That's not saying "russia is winning to trick us into thinking that they're winning. don't be fooled", it's saying "russia has chosen to trade excessive amounts of materiel and men to retain ground to make it appear that enemy actions did not have an effect, when in practice this means they had more and larger effects than they would otherwise have had but those effects will occur in depth". And that's what we did see - total artillery death, total tank death and total air defence cuckoldry happened because of the policy of throwing them into the meatgrinder in the greyzone, which created opportunities in depth for attacks on refineries and the invasion of Kursk.holy fucking coperald>the failed attack on crimea gave ukraine the opportunity to launch another failed attack (on kursk)lmao
>>65451823Hahaha but it is true there are 5 million of us in germany already (and thats just russians not counting our other slavic brethren) and their laws do not apply to us. And when they claim otherwise we yell discrimination and get off, we just do as we please, we undercut them claim our labor is "skilled" while its not and we dont speak their language and KEK them out of everything they have, they will own nothing and be forced into wageslavery so that those of us that dont feel like working can live comfortably on their gibs.Life in germany is good as long as youre not german. Xaxaxxaxxaxaxaxax
>>65451828He is right though we do not need to invade germanistan we just take it and they qill give it to us.Avg salary in russia is maybe 200€ if we go to germany we get 500€ + free rent + free healthcare courtesy of the german taxcuck. And if we chose to work there we can start companies doing anything selling the labor of FOB russian дyхи scum, no meisterpflicht applies to us no laws against schwarzarbeit and no minimum wage applies to us and these cucks will still give us all their work and try to save themselves by "education" and the white collar is the next part where we cuck them out of.This is why they are poor; why they cannot breed while we have 6 kids why they cant afford pods while we live in mansions (except the дyхи that we abuse, also sexually mind you)
>>65452178How are they all simultaneously your homeland? Are you kne of those germans that got the patriotism smacked so hard out of them that they no longer consider themselves german but "european"? Lmao @ the amount of germcuckery. Watch me getting you fired by claiming discrimination and you begging for it like>b....but ma'am some of my best friends are russians, i did not mean to dsicriminate they/them ma'am im so sorry i will apologize to the ruzzian CHAD i swear i am NOT racistAnd they will still fire you for being a white man.Im glad that us slavs arent white and superior to you.
>>65452293>I'm not a russian shillYeah right, zigger
>>65451493>FinlandLol. We don't have the kind of resilience 1940's Finland had, so all they need to do is make it a war of attrition and we'll fold. All this is because in peacetime it's too expensive to keep up infrastructure you might never need, so everything is made to Jewish minimum viable product specifications now, not wartime specs>almost half of civilian shelters don't fulfil the requirements set out in the law, last time I said this someone called me a vatnik but you can check it out on Yle yourself>cell towers have abysmal batteries because the companies involved cried that any sort of readiness is too expensiveAnd so on
>>65452888Checked, now do a steamed hams sbout the illegal war of aggression against iran
>>65452893This plus the 5th column at home. Would the millions of russians that have already invaded europe "peacefully" just sit idly by?You know.Guys like this faggot>>65453096>>65453078>>65453075
>>65453100>ah we’ll just give up after one ounce of struggle
>>65453105I'm extremely pessimistic about this retarded society ever weathering any kind of hardship
>>65453108Piss poor attitude to have
>>65453109as a man, there is no reason to fight to protect todays society. i dont have a house, i dont have any property of my own, i dont have a wife, i dont have kids, never will. the only thing i have is my health and playing computer in my man cave and im not risking that for le tzd or muh evropa. give me land, a house or a large sum of money and i might move my ass, but just "serving my country" that is basically just corrupt conservatives in suits shoveling money into their own pockets, that is not enough.
>>65453146I'm the guy who was moaning about cell towers and I still think your take is retarded
>>65453100>>65453108>>We Finns> t. Robert from Indiana>>65453146Loser cuckold
>>65453159Ei ole pakko uskoa senkin neekeri
>>65453159>Loser cuckoldyes, thats the point. why fight if you have nothing to gain from it? in antiquity if a state lost a war, the men got murdered or enslaved, so you had to fight for your life, but in modern wars you can just walk away to the next country or surrender and nothing really changes for you.
>>65451491Lmao, that dude is so big you could actually fit Putin inside him driving him like a exoskeleton. Who could even resist a guy like that?
>>65453146He's doing the meme lol
>>65451405Reality disagrees.
>>65453075That's nice, subhuman. Maybe one day it'll be 6 million. And even then you actually trying to do shit will just end with you going the way of another certain 6 million. Unlikely, though, mass-deportation is gonna happen way sooner than that.
>>65453078>This is why they are poor;That's funny, given they are orders of magnitude wealthier than (You) will ever be outside of your clueless delusions you're trying to sell from your FSB-loaned laptop sitting in a shithole shack outside St. Petersburg.
>>65451529>Russia has a large nuclear stockpileI am more than confident said nuclear stockpile is now utterly useless for first strike capability. The very least, the only threat would be if it either gets on the black market for the Third World to paw at, or if some FSB stooge smuggles out the parts to build it somewhere.
>>65453100This sort of mentality is literally the reason puccia exist today>Let's not call the bluff, it's better to give russpidors everything they wantUkraine literally didn't have an army in 2014, yet you can see for yourself the state of the mighty russo rooster, when someone actually decides to fight it back.
>>65453215>surrender and nothing really changes for you.We ARE talking about Russians. If we got invaded by Swedes it would just improve things. With Russians you'll either end up a fighting slave or butt slave like it's the Ottoman Empire
>>65453392Ukrainians are tougher. Unironically their society at large is not much different from 1940s Finland because the standards of living are so ass.
>>65453408>Ukrainians are tougher.No, Ukrainians are homo sovieticus retards, that's an extremely low bar already.
>>65451389have you played cod mw2??? it would take 5 seconds for russia to be segueing the whitehouse you idiot
>>65451389>Could a european combined army defeatAnswer is no in all cases.
>>65453215>or surrenderWhat exactly do you think will happen to you if you surrender to russians?
>>65453146Enjoy being shot in the head by a invading russian soldier. Russia is not your saviour.
https://defence-blog.com/u-s-air-force-c-17-lands-in-moscow-no-reason-given/Can Europe defend against the US and Russia?
>>65453430Same effect of diminishing their sense of self-preservation
>>65451491I feel for the suspension of whatever vehicle he climbs on, on a second note, I want to see riding a 125cc Honda bike.
>>65453146>as a man>wants things given to himNah, you're just a leech. Want anything in life? Go earn it
>>65453146Fag, I hate my country and people too but it's my country and no one can touch, even if I hate it and they hate it me back, I'd still fight for them because they're my people.
>>65451491Judge Holden really took an unexpected arc
>>65453100>We don't have the kind of resilience 1940's Finland hadDon't even need to at this point.>so all they need to do is make it a war of attrition and we'll foldRussia is currently losing a war of attrition themselves, they are extremely weak.
>>65451685You sound upset.What blew up?
>>65453075>>65453078
Multipoolar World status?
>>65453533>>65453533>Nah, you're just a leech. Want anything in life? Go earn itthats literally what i said in my post. you (society) want me as your soldier? risking my life for you? earn it!i am not your property.
>>65453102What is illegal about it?
>>65453814AchMAD are you pretending to be a disaffected European again?
>>65453486Why is USA slobbering zigger cock so hard?
>>65453840We want in on the ground floor when that shithole collapses again
>>65451389Depends on the timing. If it happens now, europe is behind in production pace because they did not sacrifice their future for a 10% of gdp military investment. In 2-3 years, europe would have buffered its defenses enough for further at scale production to completely destroy russia. (This is a nukeless scenario in which once superiority has been achieved, there are efforts to de escalate)Europe probably has not yet midernized its chain of command to the extent of ukraine and now russia. I fear that a very good real time resource allocation system would allow for the one in possession of it to achieve contemporary maneuveur warfare, even in the advent of drones, and today, russia, even when its lagging behind ukraine, probably leads the eu on this. Not that they would be able to do something useful with it, but the eu achieving fast and fluid gains is probably not a possibility
>>65453824He's doing the "US has betrayed Europe" routine he does every day when he isn't banned.
>>65453843>we
>>65453864He's switching characters to an American wondering "why we're spending so much gosh darned money".
>>65453486>nooooo people are making fun of russsia, quick, deploy the europe VS US metoditchka!embarrassing.
>>65453872Careful, now he will spam that word in half a dozen spam threads and call you the zigger for calling bullshit on the tea leaf reading he does with every article to derive some way for Russia to still win.
>>65453814well no, for yourself, if russians invade you they're just going to torture and kill you lol, they killed all their proxies in the donbas too, retard, you're no different, you're getting lined against the wall by them if you don't fight them.
>>65451389If NATO wanted to they could absolutely mulch Russia all the way up until a nuke flies. I dont think Russia's functioning nuclear arsenal is nearly as big or as ready as they claim, but im sure if tanks were cruising to Moscow they would be able to dig up at least one functional warhead, and once they chuck one nuke it's basically GG and we turn into IRL Fallout as every nuclear armed state in the world fires everything after Russia gets glassed by retaliation strikes. You would likely see North Korea and China immediately start lobbing ordinance and nukes and then we're basically just blowing up the entire northern hemisphere at that point.
>>65453864Yes "we" nigger. I want as many plants inside Russia ready to steal what little resources that god forsaken shithole will have left after its next implossion.
>>65453883im austrian. my country would just just roll over and collaborate, in a fight we would lose anyway.
>>65451394fpbp
>>65454091>p-pls believe my metoditchka>a-are you feeling demoralized yet?!embarrassing attempt.
>>65453579See, this kind of thinking is what will bite us in the assLike are you saying Ukraine isn't getting missiles and drones rained upon them on a regular basis? If the same thing happens here what will you even do?
>>65454194Anon, what the fuck would Russia actually do if Finland opened up a front on them while they're bogged down in Ukraine?
>>65454214What exactly do you think opening a front entails? Taking SPB? That's not exactly a small feat. The wartime military in a best case scenario will involve a couple of hundred thousand men with any idea of what they're doing, and half a million old dudes with AKs
>>65454258Why would you mobilize all the reservists? You don't need to, just join the Ukrainians in doing strikes in Russian territory.
>>65454268OK, but then we also get droned and have no plan against drone incursion. Actually that's pretty much the worst case scenario, getting drones sent with no declaration of war
>>65454297They're gonna divert their drones from the Ukrainian front, all the fucking way to Finland?
>>65451389Pretty sure Home Depot could defeat Russia
>>65454304You could transport a Geran or a hundred easyThey wouldn't even need all that many, even just a few landing in downtown Helsinki every now and then would cause pure chaos
>>65453078>unskilled immigration displaces locals upwardslmao so local unskilled labour suddenly has college degrees? based retard
>>65454258>a couple of hundred thousand men with any idea of what they're doing, and half a million old dudes with AKsSo more than what Russia could possibly muster?Russia cannot fight two wars at once. They would definitely lose to a second front.
>>65454374Then what happens when Finland retaliates on St. Pidorsberg?
>>65455043Nothing. Russians are downtrodden serfs who don't care about their lives or those of their neighbors. A prosperous country that's been at peace for nearly a century has a different mindset
>>65455310>>65454374t. Robert from Helsinki oblast>>65453408I love this metodischka. 1940s Finland was more fragile and less prepared than 2026 Finland. You're not a real Finn. Your Google translate posts won't convince anyone.
>>65455358Finland being prepared is just bullshit we are told. In March there was a drone incursion (accidental Ukrainian) and there was no alert, we just found them after the fact. The next time there was an alert but no incursion, and we spent weeks fighting over whether workers not turning up because of a drone alert should get paid or not. If the sirens at town hall went off today I wouldn't even know where the fuck to go and idk if the town hall shelter is even maintained. After the cold war they've been an afterthought and money sink nobody wants to take care of. The list goes on. All of this could be fixed but then the leftoids start moaning about muh fearmongering and militarization
>>65451389A ground invasion of Russia by an alliance made up of Germany, France, Poland, Italy, Sweden, etc? It'd still be a boondoggle. Russia is big and they'll always have somewhere to fall back to. They'll level their own cities rather than leave them to an invading force, so good luck just bombing them.Nah, if all of Europe + the UK all decided one day they wanted to fuck up Russia, they'd do so without firing a shot.
>>65455376Yes yes Robert from Helsinki oblast with a dishonorable discharge, we get it, Russia powerful, based and trad, manly, and stronk. Finland gay, leftist, puny, feminine, and weak.
>>65455376Of course you wouldn't know where to go because you don't live in Finland. Also the claims anout public shelters are bald faced lies that anyone can disprove. KYS faggot.
>>65455388https://yle.fi/a/74-20239925This article's all lies isn't it, plus the law only states they have to be ready in 72 hours IIRC, beats me why every single one hasn't been brought up to readiness NOW since the first drone alert was already issued>>65455386No Russia is a faggotron nation and I wish they burned in nuclear hellfire forever. But we have to remember the reality won't be us drinking caipirinhas while watching Moscow burn in the distance, we will take hits ourselves
>>65455392Ok Robert, gay puny feminist Finland isn't ready for the horde of subhumans or whatever you say.
>>65455395Unironically I think it isn't, less so conventional warfare because I think the military has that part down. But even low intensity missile spam would be bad news and we don't have David's Sling yet (can you believe the leftoids moaned about that too because Palestinian lives matter more than ours)
>>65455399Yea Robert, Helsinki oblast will be smoldering ruin under Oreshnik or whatever you say. I am demoralized, Finland is gay and womanly nation.
>>65455406Helsinki (also known as homocity) is big so Russian missile CEP will inevitably hit something in thereOr maybe they'll land in Vantaa instead idk no big loss
>>65455409Yeas yes Robert, all of Helsinki oblast is in danger of mighty subhuman Russia. Then Finland will surrender to mighty Puccia because Finland is weak and womanly and gay, so one drone in Helsinki oblast is enough to make them surrender.
>>65455431Nah I'm not talking surrender, I'm talking how there is no plan whatsoeverIt's embarrassing how it got exposed after the war's been going on for 4 fucking years
>>65455435Yes, Finland is of very unprepared)))) homosex country)))))
>>65455441Yes I'm sure the "ur a vatnik" posts will help us if there are more drones
>>65455447Mighty puccia will drone Helsinki oblast)))) homsex finland will surrender because we are homo and feminine and leftoids)))))))) mighty poccnr have gerans and lawnmowers))))))))
>>65454297Now he becomes Finnish.
>>65451389I think if you were to pick a European country at random, 3 times out of 5 it could defeat Russia with token assistance from its neighbors.
>>65455829I always was FinnishI just hate this "we are a superpower of readiness!!" Reddit shit people do in Finland when we spent March through May stumbling around with our pants down
>>65455447i think this guy is a russian shill that is paid to make posts that down play russia as a threat. what russia fears the most is european countries waking up to the russian threat and going full warmode, so he makes fun of every call to be more ready for defense claiming russia is so weak, no action against it, is needed.
>>65455955>>65455948You're not fooling anyone, Ivan.>makes fun of every call to be more ready for defense You're not here saying "I want more stuff to kill Russians with", you're here whining how gay, leftist, homo, unprepared etc. Finland is. That's a typical zigger demoralisation metodischka. That's why you get called a vatnik, vatnik.
>>65456010your toxic positivity is demoralizing. you basically tell everyone that russia isnt a threat and super weak. the logical conclusion for anyone that believes that, is that no increase in military readiness is needed. if russia inst a threat and european countries are invincible military powerhouses, then why bother with spending any money on defense and supporting ukraine?
>>65456056Nta but a cornered rabid and injured animal can still bite. For the better part of the last 30 years europe took the part of the bleeding hearted owner refusing to put it down, hoping it would heal with time. But now the tears are being dried, the shotgun are being loaded, and the hope for a dignified death are being replaced with the lucid determination of putting ol' yeller down for his own sake.
>>65456010>You're not here saying "I want more stuff to kill Russians with",That's not the point, the military has enough stuff for that. It's civil society that should be better prepared because we already know the Russian MO FFS
Remember, wanting your country to be prepared for war means a gunless leftist will call you a zigger.
>>65456229>the military has enough stuffreally? how many nukes does finland have? how many stealth bombers? how many icbms? how many cruise missiles? whats their nuclear triade? how many patriots to intercept russian ballistics? what medium and short range air defense? how would finland deal with 400 shaheeds and 30 cruise missiles per week for years, are there large minefields on the border to russia, bunkers and czech hedgehogs and dragons teeth? trench lines? tank ditches? contingency plan for the american king not coming to help or even sabotaging the defense? what if the euros "dont want to escalate" and just "monitor the situation" and send helmets and humanitarian aid only??whats the win scenario against russia? how do you end the war? do you plant to drag it out for 5 years plus? what about the energy imports? are you dependent fully on oil and gas, what if the storages get attacked and kaboomed, powerplant status?i dont think any european military has "enough stuff" to deal with russia or is even remotely prepared for the same war that goes on in ukraine.
>>65456256yes i agree. nobody can stand against russia. the bear has awoken, europe will sit on bottles.
>>65456256What does Russia have to throw at Europe other than manpower (which I grant they should have as long as mobilisation doesn't backfire) that they are not throwing at Ukraine for some reason?
>>65456236>lying about western capabilities and zigger capabilities makes you a ziggercorrect, concern troll-san.western forces are in a shitty state, it's just that even in that shitty state they would absolutely body the russians.the real reason for the MIC spoolup is because it's politically acceptable to make money with that again, and also because western politics requires a godlike 1:20 casualty or more ratio, we don't just want to rape the russians in combat, we want to rape them while barely suffering any human casualties or economic damage of our own.
>>654531001940s finland also lost btw. twice.>inb4 the ussr was le much bigger not fairfinland was allied with the nazis the second time
>>65456896Yes but I don't speak a word of Russian and their cancerous culture stayed out, that's a win in my book
>>65451389Looks like a bunch of old ladies doing the roman-nazi salute
>>65456920
>>65456923>HEI-Ow mein back
>>65452081And other fantasies you can tell yourself
All the comparisons between Finland and Ukraine are ignoring that Finland has a population of 5,5 million compared to Ukraine's 40 million. I feel like in a war between Russia and Finland we'd get crushed pretty quick. How would we even cover the entire border, we'd have to spread so thin? Our greatest military accomplishments are two wars which we both lost land in. I dont want to demoralize, but seeing how cocky a lot of Finns are is concerning. I dont know what there is to be done, I guess joining NATO was good, might make Russia hesitate (They would've almost certainly invaded the Baltics without NATO), though even the reliability of NATO is uncertain now that the US is going insane. The low population is a major elephant in the room that isnt brought up nearly enough, the conversations are always just about what weapons or preparations we have.
>>65456936you're right, russia has lost far more than that, and they basically exhausted their entire soviet stock, without any ability to replace it.
>>65458535>spread so thinrussia cannot send another ukraine war sized army to go fight finland lol
>>65458540they dont need to, they could just raid small shit along the frontline, harass locals near the border with human safaris, send shaheeds against power plants, gas stations, ware houses, factories, railways, attack trucks on highways, cut internet cables, harass shipping off the coast of finland, drop some sea mines in front of finnish ports. they could ruin the finnish economy without having to shove infantry over the border. the finnish choice then would be for their prime minister to become the "beggar of helsinki" and make a "mineral deal" with trump in order to maybe get some support in exchange for all the riches of the country or surrender in a "peace deal" and become belarus 2.0.
>>65458616I think this overstates the likelyhood of hybrid attacks on Finland remaining a 1v1 affair. And I'm not talking about America personally intervening in full honouring of an article 5. You don't think Europe's eastern flank aren't preparing for something that might not require NATO infrastructure?
>>65458616implessive demoralisation post.>russia will directly attack finnish civilians and totally not get bombed into fucking oblivionlol.>all of this fantasy shithow fucking retarded are you nigger? you don't seriously think anyone's gonna take this serious, do you?
>>65458616Apart from the pidor talk at the end you're not exactly wrong
>>65458616>Finland isn't a part of NATO>Finland isn't a part of the EU
>>65458616>they couldoh shit, they could??? why don't they??? it's so easy!the truth is that they could not, in fact, do any of that shit, and they know it.Which is why, despite decades of chest thumping and 4+ years of what they claim to be all-out war against the west, their troops are still in the donbas and not, say, in Tallinn or Warsaw or Helsinki or Berlin.
>>65458697>>Finland isn't a part of NATOyeah im sure trump will like having to spend money and military assets that he needs against iran and china, on the defense of finland.
>>65458723>trump will like tough shit for him
>>65458723The money is already spent in NATO you massive dicksuck. Additionally, youre neglecting the rest of the coalition- half of whom, have been chomping at the bit to bitch slap that partially aborted fetus of the ussr
>>65458723>b-but my demoralisation campaign???!!!trump doesn't hold any cards, russia would get raped into oblivion by finland and the rest of europe.
>>65458730>have been chomping at the bit to bitch slap that partially aborted fetus of the ussrabout 50% of hungary is zigger loving chuds, slovakia and bulgaria too, poland, czechia and romania also have a sizable chud fraction that loves russia. and small shits like slovenia or the balts dont have the firepower to be relevant. thats the entire eastern flank of nato basically being a house of cards.
>>65458745>e-everyone already loves russia pls give up!lol, you couldn't be more transparent if you tried, zigger.
>>65458745Good thing Russia itself is giant house of cards, Pidoryvich
>>65458723Finland are formal members of NATO, they are part of the defense pact now, and that's just how it is.I understand that you must think that things work differently because of >C >S >T >O, but real defense pacts entail duties and rules.
>>65453207Muilutusta kaipaat.
>>65459609>real defense pacts entail duties and rules.trump is real too and euros sleeping on defense or being super cucked peaceniks is not a fantasy either.could the americans even spare another carrier right now? and not just physically but financially, the usa are in a debt crisis already. the defense of europe would probably explode the alread high debt even more. trump would have to raise taxes or cut spending at home. both these things are incredibly unpopular in the usa and he has elections upcoming as well...i am convinced the white house already has a spin prepared for abandoning the balts. "what have they ever done for us" "they have ripped us off" "they never said thank you" etc.
>>65461075>could the americans even spare another carrier right now?Don't even need a carrier you transparently cock gargling shill. There are already US airwings present throughout Europe ready to obliterate what little AA Russia has left. >i am convincedWe know vatnik
>>65461075>b-but my fantasy!is not getting taken seriously, zigger.
I just want europe to finally secede from its amerilard overlords and become the third superpower on the planet. Right now we still rely too much on their support, and as of now we saw how unpredictable their foreign policies can be. Ut's like being chained to a schizo pointing a knife at your throat, unsure whether to gut you, protect you or carve a cake.
