a few more B-52 strikes and we would have won. shit, we won after the tet offensive until everyone freaked out back home
>>65453682I keep seeing that book shilled. Is it any good?t. enjoyed Red Storm Rising
Could have prevented it in the first place if we had told France that they lost their colony privileges when they surrendered to Germany.
So... two more weeks (of bombing)?
>>65453682The plan was for covid to be engineered to essentially be fox die for white people, it leaked and killed a bunch of chinks and Italians and old people instead. Would it be possible to preform a one two punch of sterilizing and denying internet access to Asia and India, Muslims seems like it would be tricky to pull off but would also be ideal.
>we would have wonWon what? There was nothing of importance in Vietnam in the first place until interventionist faggots made it their pet project. Domino theory was a total meme and there was no Vietnam-intrinsic motivation.
>>65453682Should have told the French to eat shit and backed Ho Chi Minh
>>65453764Fucking this. If any of the Domino Theory held up in earnest, Nixon wouldn't have shaken hands with Mao. Shit, the whole of the American stage of the Vietnam War was a fucking kabuki theater smoke show. It's basically been acknowledged that the Gulf of Tonkin was either set up to happen or a straight-up false flag as an "in" to Vietnam. Between that, MACVSOG's "other" activities over the official theater borders, and the en-masse weapons testing in-theater by the CIA and Pentagon proper, it's clear the pretenses presented to the public of the reasons for fighting innajungle were wholecloth lies. Whatever we did get out of the War, it wasn't worth thousands of American or Vietnamese lives, it completely fucked a whole generation stateside with the infection of hippies, and it actually pushed them further into the arms of communism.
>>65453848I'd argue the "Vietnam syndrome" was a good thing to come out of it. Had a solid run until the gulf war of no other boondoggles.
>>65454204NTA; unrelated, but the whole scenario in Threads (1984) about an American invasion of Iran is ludicrous.
>>65453682The trick was to invade the north>but muh ChinaWould not have done shit, and if they had - nuke them this time
>>65453682there was no way to win vietnam, because there was no objectives and therefore no path to peace
>>65454207Bongs are just really resentful their empire collapsed. So did France's, but you don't see them crying about it. They re-engaged with the games on the terms they were able to.
>>65454224Kill the norvs until there were no more norvs, Trudeau. Oldest tactic in the book. Our loss due to internal matters, not problems in-country, as terrible a time as it was for GIs.
>>65454236This certainly didn't work in Afghanistan.
>>65454251Wrong. The poppy was acquired.
>>65454269'nam has no poppy
>>65454251Literally same thing. Didn’t kill enough islamists, unpopular at home.
>>65454236>Our loss due to internal mattersYeah, I told you. It was a loss, because nobody knew what they wanted out of the war.
>>65453682Cross border raids were how the war would be won. The US started them very late but when they did do them they massively degraded the NVA's ability to operate in SV and resupply the VC. You can't let your enemy have a safe zone like you're playing tag. >Be NVA regiment >Walk the length of Veitnam, but outside Veitnam so you get bombed slightly >Infiltrate into Southern Veitnam >Get absolutely mauled the second you come into contact with US forces >Retreat outside veitnam >Reform >Refit >Reorganize >Go back in >Rinse and rotate Idiocy.
>>65454280The way Afghanistan was lost is exactly how a "kill everyone" Vietnam would go. The Norvs would just hang out in China until the GIs get bored and leave. The problem with Vietnam was that there simply was no plan going into the war.
>>65454284The Bourdain meme about hating Kissinger because of what he did to Cambodia needs to end. It was a war in Indochina, not just Vietnam.
>>65454306100% and it should have been from the start. Even if it didn't result in a "win" the area of operations would have eventually narrowed from ALL OF SOUTH VEITNAM just just the portions directly bordering NV.
>>65454290Plans are for idiots. Resolve is for the real chads. You think Jingis Khan had a plan for his empire? Fuck no, fell apart soon as he died. I can tell you what he would have done to all his countrymen naysayers trying to drag him down.
>>65454221Problem is this was post korean war. Which went shittily.
>>65454313>You think Jingis Khan had a plan for his empire?You think the world today is comparable to the empty steppes of the mongol protection racket?
>>65454310The HBO movie "Path to War" gets into it a decent bit. How the Johnson Admin slow-walked the escalation ladder so much, that Hanoi never respected American resolve.
>>65454313War is the extension of diplomacy by other means. And you can only do diplomacy if there is something you want.There was nothing concrete the Americans wanted in Vietnam.
>>65454323No. He didn’t have a navy.
>>65454323Most of the peoples he conquered did not live on the steppe.
>>65453822France getting kicked out is what started the entire thing to begin withthe us had this pro decolonization bullshit phase after ww2 that sabotaged the entire western world
>>65454344doesn't matter, anything that happened prior to 1914 is completely irrelevant
>>65454347>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Act
>>65454352that sure gives a lot of insight into the function of war in the world order, yes
>>65454228the French had been humbled beforethey had lost the 7 years war, lost the war of Spanish succession, lost the Napoleonic war, the Franco-Prussian war and had been occupied.they had dealt with with disaster before, adopted and thrived again.the Brits on their end had been on a near constant winning streak since the 7 years war, sure there had been some setbacks but nothing to really humble them
>>65454228Remember that meme about empires only lasting 250 years? Wouldn't you believe it, it was made up by a bong who intentionally twisted years to fit his narrative. Hell the bongs were pissed at Protect and Survive mostly because it implied they'd have no say in a potential nuclear armageddon. Their whole collective psyche has never recovered from decolonization. I bet that's partly why they want to import so many third worlders, if they can't lay claim to the streets of Kabul or Delhi anymore they'll just make their own empire over a bunch of brown people at home
How to win in Vietnam:Step 1: Murder the South Vietnamese GovernmentStep 2: Air drop infantry weapons everywhere until every hamlet becomes a fortressStep 3: Use air-power to take out any massed forces that villagers can't deal withThe objective of Vietnam was to prevent the spread of communism and expand freedom. Let's see how the commies do when the entire region is on fire. Would probably work in Iran too.>>65454207>1200 US ultimatum expiresMy friend Breznev is a fantastic leader. So wise and if I may say also so handsome. Nothing at all like CROOKED CARTER who wanted to break America. And he nearly did folks! Thanks to fantastic negotiations over the last 24 hours in Helsinki I am hereby pausing imminent attacks as we head into a deal for the transfer of West Germany. THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION ON THIS MATTER.
all we had to do was not murder that entire village of people.
Why is it considered invalid that America gave up and left before Vietnam? If the NVA gave up because of internal pressure and its civilians freaking out because of casualty rate you guys would say it’s a victory lol
>>65454514>American war goal was the continuation of South Vietnam as a independent state>Hanoi war goal was the unification of Vietnam under HanoiI don't know if you're strawmanning or not, but if the US left in '73, AND THEN Saigon lasted until the 1990s, it would have been a US victory (in my eyes).
>>65453691De Gaulle would never have shut up about it and would have blamed the US for anything that happened afterward and France would hate us forever and leave NATO (for realsies)
>>65454345Ho Chi Minh was a westaboo and wanted to be friends with the US, he just wanted Vietnam to govern itself. He only turned towards the Soviets when America told him to eat shit because they were backing France>>65454525I swear to god, every time I read something about France it just makes me hate them more. Such an entitled fucking country
>>65453689Man, I could go for some fried rice right now. Shrimp, pork,or chicken. I feel like beef doesn't pair well with it.
The key to winning Vietnam and Korea was bombing China.
>>65454534>I swear to god, every time I read something about France it just makes me hate them more. Such an entitled fucking countryVulnerable narcissist "The Country"
>>65454514>If the NVA gave up because of internal pressure and its civilians freaking out because of casualty rate you guys would say it’s a victory lolYes? That's what a victory is.
>>65453682The Vietnam war was a pointless folley that was never going to benefit the US in any meaningful material way, and in fact did incalculable financial and cultural harm.
>>65453848>If any of the Domino Theory held up in earnest, Nixon wouldn't have shaken hands with Mao.Even taking for granted that Nixon wadn't capable of acting against accepted American interests, how was helping the Sino-Soviet Split along incompatible with Domino Theory.
>>65454525>would have blamed the US for anything that happened afterward and France would hate us foreverso exactly like now?
I love America's insistence that bombing harder could have "won" them the war. Sure, the air ROE was retarded and didn't help win, but it's so fucking clear that to "win" they'd actually need to learn to patrol with competent infantry and develop actual COIN ideas. They were still more than a decade from aerial sensors and PGMs that would be even vaguely useful in a tactical jungle environment, and it doesn't take much materiel to keep the low intensity irregular VC stuff going in the south.
>>65453691This. The OSS was embedded with the Viet Mihn from it's inception. They saved Ho Chi Mihn's life from malaria, and Mihn wanted to model Vietnam using the US constitution as a basis for it's government.It could have been fucking perfect, a liberated populist democracy in the budding Indochina region. But De Gaulle had to fuck it all up.
>>65454514A victory is when you accomplish what you want.The US did not get what they wanted (non-commie Vietnam), Hoh Chi Minh got what he wanted, unified mostly independent Vietnam.What do you call this, if not a Vietnam victory and a US loss?
>>65454284>>65454306>>65454310I think his quote is misinterpreted or at least I disagree with it in the sense that I see it brought up constantly online either for or against. Henry Kissinger is a retarded piece of shit who literally got cucked, conned and openly mocked by Mao. There's no way to fight the Vietnam War without it extending into the rest of Southeast Asia, for the Americans nor the Vietnamese, and anyone who is going to make that argument is naive or bad at being deceptive about their view of the conduct of war.My issue with Kissinger and Nixon in Cambodia and Laos is that they decided to hand over these operations to a bunch of pilled-up acid freaks and carpet bombing lunatics who just enjoyed filling farmers' fields with ordnance and mines while they trafficked opium poppies, and thai weed out of their covert airbases and turned allied nations into fucking angry, armed to the teeth cesspits where everyone and their kids are losing limbs to mines and UXO every other day.People really forget that Ho Chi Minh was a nationalist first and foremost and just wanted his people to be free - Woodrow Wilson rebuffed him after WW1 and he learned that Americans don't believe in anything except money and power that day. He only espoused communism as it was the only ideology playing on the world stage that at least backed up its anti-imperial rhetoric with some anti-colonialism where it proved convenient. If the US and Wilson had stood by the right to self-determination bluster in the formation of the League of Nations and told France and England to get fucked, Vietnam would have been a super strategic ally in combating the Japanese Empire and anti-western regimes in the Pacific. Instead France and the US get fucking dunked on and ignored, all their investment in lives, local assets, allies, infrastructure, and materiel gets wiped out in the blink of an eye. And the prize for the other people of Southeast Asia is that their lands rips them apart regularly
>>65454451Kek.
>>65453848Domino Theory actually held up in the rearview. North Vietnam straight up invaded Laos and Cambodia, backing communists who took over those countries along the way.
>>65453691Imagine Nazi Vietnam for lulz
I just don't like communists. If we don't do something, Red China will expand its influence throughout the whole damn region like dominoes and we'll have a giant impenetrable red commie block across all of motherfucking asi->Vietnam starts fighting China next....... well how the fuck was I supposed to know that'd happen?!
>>65454228The French were so butthurt by the inevitable end of their empire that they fucked up international geopolitics for the next half century. At least the British had the good sense to just let it go.
>>65455378Churchill wanted to double down
>>65454794Bombing in general was ineffective, but specifically Operation Pocket Money was highly effective and would have had significant tactical/strategic impact of conducted years earlier when the Navy first purposed it. Basically all advanced or even just mechanized/ heavy equipment came through Haiphong.
>>65455106Dumbest take in the thread by far, congrats.
>>65453682It's honestly baffling how far the US government let the media get, if they tried this shit in WW2 virtually every "reporter" would be in internment camps within a week.
>>65453848Domino theory WAS real. What nobody expected was that the USSR and the CCP would undergo such a sudden and catastrophic divorce, and Nixon and Kissinger masterfully stepped in to take advantage of it.
>>65453848>it wasn't worth thousands of American or Vietnamese lives>thousands2 million vietnamese died lol
>>65455106>>65456117>>65454775>muh domino theory was real bros just believe in proofs xaxaxaTHERE IS NOBODY ON EARTH A VIETNAMESE MAN HATES MORE THAN A CHINESE GUY. There is NO outcome whatsoever where Vietnam became part of a union with China. They fought a fucking war with them less than a decade later and this was always inevitable.I cannot emphasise how unbelievably off-base American intel was to ignore the fact that Vietnam despised China on an absolutely pure and deep ethnic level and only accepted their material support because there was no other way to win the war. You only need to look at any recorded Vietnamese history or what they actively did to the Mandarins to see this. I have been to Vietnam and I have spoken to Vietnamese guys who legitimately just love the US as the land of fat-ass white bitches who dance on their phone and coca-cola and mcdonald's and basically view the American involvement in the war as little more than a passing political fad. They hate the French, not America at all, and they still hate the Chinese infinitely more than that.>muh CambodiaYeah they overthrew Pol Pot, was that really such a fucking bad thing? Somebody should've done it. The only thing they did wrong there was not hanging him.
>>65454791Well, yes, but they haven't left NATO.
>>65456027My point isn't that more effective bombing wouldn't have helped set the conditions to win, it's that it would never have been sufficient to win. Even if the North had no heavy equipment etc it would still have been necessary to deal with the insurgency in the South, and the American military was fundamentally not intellectually equipped to do that. The US was never going to be able to produce infantry that were useful on an individual or collective level for a jungle counter-insurgency with the policies, recruiting base and training systems that they had at the time could cobble together in the time frame of the counterfactual. Similarly, their officer corps across all branches was never going to be able to be sufficiently competent to do a good enough job at both total or limited direct war against the USSR as well as jungle counter insurgency - both of those things are very hard on their own but both together is an absurd request and it's clear which was the more important mission.
>>65456151>THERE IS NOBODY ON EARTH A VIETNAMESE MAN HATES MORE THAN A CHINESE GUY. There is NO outcome whatsoever where Vietnam became part of a union with China. They fought a fucking war with them less than a decade later and this was always inevitable.Mate whatever you think Domino Theory was, that aint it. Domino Theory had nothing to do with China annexing Vietnam. What the fuck are you on about?
>>65454370>function of war before 1914>expand the empire >war after>stop expansion It's that shrimple.
>>65454451>this drivelWhat the fuck are you babbling about.
>>65454461>Americans>kill a village of people >UNSPEAKABLE CRIME>North Veitnam >have entire division just to kill civilians Where did the Hmoung and Montanyards go?
>>65454625>beefYeah, beef should only be for stir frys.
>>65454825>pilled up acid freaks who turned them into shitholesYeah North Veitnam is evil.
>>65456151The North Vietnamese literally invaded their neighbors, used them as staging grounds, and assisted communist rebels in overthrowing their governments.
>>65456151>yeah domino theory was completely bullshit, the fucking commies totally didn't use their own territory to springboard armed conquest of neighboring countries!>does this a dozen fucking timesOnly a leftist can ignore reality this hard.
>>65454228Bongs really don't care about the empire. I don't know why foreigners keep bringing it up
>>65456386To be fair to the north Cambodia was saved by them after they helped Pol Pot come to power.
>>65456376Minnesota mostlyBut to your point: if there is a civil war in some far-off country which is not a military ally or critical trade partner for the US, the correct response is to do nothing. The US shouldn't have been there in the first place, and the massacres didn't even accomplish anything positive to offset the huge dissent they created back home.Many people didn't feel strongly about Vietnam until "And babies? And babies." The loss of reputation of US institutions empowered the hippies.
>>65453822No we should’ve dropped a buke on a bunch of commie fucks at France’s request.Can’t believe some of you are decolonization faggots. Literally nothing good has happened since the fall of UK and France’s empires post ww2.
>>65456494Also some of you guys are literal sports. Hochimin didn’t suddenly become communist. He always was a populist playing the field. At his heart he was a commie and just used the US then mocked us by quoting our Declaration of Independence in his own Declaration of Independence. It wasn’t some sad song about how we were so much alike it was a fuck you statement. Same with Afghanistan and their home of the brave comments.
>we should have dropped a nuke on the commies at the height of the USSR's nuclear capabilityIf you're so desperate to be dead you can handle that for yourself
>>65453682We *did* win. Had the same result as in Korea. And then the post-Watergate Democrat congress threw it all away because they *liked* communism.
>>65453682Was It worth winning though?
>>65456433Only initiated because they were launching raids into Vietnam lel. Much like the holocaust, “liberation” was a post hoc justification
>>65456554Insane cope
>If the commies take over one random undeveloped jungle country, domino theory states they might be able to take over a couple other random undeveloped jungle countries! >Ergo we need to spend over a trillion in inflation adjusted dollars and over a quarter million casualties (dead+injured) to keep this from happening in rando undeveloped jungle countryObviously it WAS important to counter the communists during the cold war. But given the global scale of that conflict, Vietnam specifically strikes me as a matter of sunk cost fallacy in action. The other side WAS going to get wins, and I don't think it was particularly rational to decide one in Vietnam was an existential issue.
>>65454514Nobody is disputing that the US gave up the effort and left (due to mounting casualties, nothing to show for it and increased internal pressure to end the war). The issue is that (some) americans claim that this means it is not a loss for some strange reason. Likely somewhst based on the "we never lost a battle"-myth
>>65456151Honestly, Vietnam is lucky the Vietnam war happened. If it hadn't, literally no one would even talk about them, they'd be just another sweatshop third world shithole with a few nice vacation spots. But instead they get to be featured in some of the most based war movies ever made.
>>65456806>The issue is that (some) americans claim that this means it is not a loss for some strange reason.It's especially weird if you're citing Dominio theory as your justification for US involvement. Since it was "correct" in at least one respect since Vietnam falling to communism meant that Laos and Cambodia did as well. There's a fairly reasonable arguement that this didn't ultimately matter very much to the United States in the grand scheme of things (it turns out Indochina isn't exactly an ideal geographical pivot point of history and the commies fell into retarded idealogical infighting anyway), but that defense kinda tacitly admits the whole thing was probably a waste of time or at least a massive overcommittment.
>>65456847The claim is that it bought time for Thailand, Malaysia, Burma and ultimately Indonesia and India to establish their defences and destroy the fifth columns in their country so that there was a break in the line of falling dominoes.By the way, this neither side of this is an abstract thing. Stated Soviet foreign policy was quite literally Domino Theory leading to international communism everywhere, with the existence of even one capitalist democracy (or even just non-commie) country anywhere seen as an existential risk to communism everywhere. Meanwhile on the other side, the defensive preparations were concrete and not hypothetical, small-scale, token or hand wavey at all: For ecample, the Indonesians rounding up and executing their entire communist party and all their sympathisers in 1965 and 1966 (between 500,000 and 2 million people), replacing their pro-Commie dictator with a pro-Western one (Sukarno for Suharto) in 1967 etc.Basically, the high-brow and credible argument that America "won" Vietnam based on the objectives they entered with under the premises of Domino Theory is that Vietnam was a delay defence that stalled the commies there long enough to set the conditions for a successful defence proper of other countries that weren't already a lost cause.
>>65457401NTA; what steps (if any) did India take to stave off being another domino?
>>65457436Tough to square a supposedly egalitarian political/economic system and a culture with a caste-based hierarchy. It only would have been an appealing sell to Dalits who mostly just embraced Buddhism instead.
>>65457436I don't know anything at all about India or Indian history. For all I know it failed there and the commies won, but then evacuated to the dark side of the moon taking some cows with them and were eventually ethnically cleansed from there by teams of Pakistani astronauts with a grudge.
>>65457436they had an insurgent conflict in some areas with various waves lasting until the 2000s
>>65457614>>65457436For real though, India was still seen as in Britain's lane, so the wild shit that happened everywhere the CIA saw itself as responsible for probably didn't happen. In its place was probably British intelligence fuckery where the local commies ended up fighting themselves, etetnally splitting into new parties and forming working groups to argue over election slogans for the local council elections, while foreign agent provocateurs got lost in halls of mirrors or defected.
>>65457436Nothing, they have and have had since the peak of the Cold War significant repersentation of communist parties in their legislative chambers. It's just that Indians, in the majority, are unexposed to post-Enlightenment philosophies. They are not receptive to arguments from ethics or economic ideals. They primarily care about religion, family, and gibs for their ingroup.India was never going to be important to the Cold War which. It was one of the biggest forces in the Non-Aligned Movement
>>65453689you're telling me an egg fried this rice?
>>65457630>India was never going to be important to the Cold War
>>65456169I think that's kind of a strange line to take since historically the VC were anhillated at Tet and never really able to regenerate due to the Hamlet program, Phoenix program, and the PBR/Army/SEAL lock down of the Mekong after 68-69. So your kind of proposing this hypothetical constraint on a counterfactual when in actual history that constraint didn't occur.
>>65458387Why would Tet have happened if the communist center of gravity was insurgency? In this counterfactual obviously nothing like Tet would ever have beeb attempted, even you don't buy into the line of thinking that Tet was a deliberate internal self-sabotage by the North.
>>65458462I'm confused about what you're saying. Earlier you made a claim like basically it was unwinnable due to being a jungle counter insurgency. I said, well, all the insurgents died so I'm not really following the logic. Now it seems like you're saying the insurgency wasn't the center of gravity (which I agree with) but that kind of makes no sense because earlier you were saying inability to put down the insurgency was the causal factor in defeat. Those are like diametrically opposed positions so I don't really get what you're trying to say.
>>65458518Insurgency wasn't the North's center of gravity, but would have been if US air power were employed more effectively. Combatants in a war engage in a cycle.of competitive adaption, and the obvious adaption to being denied the means to accrue conventional forces and build the modern mechanised NVA that eventually defeated the South would have been to pursue protracted unconventional warfare. The inability to put down insurgency was a causal factor in defeat despite US forces never managing to develop the war to a point where it mattered. Even if the US decided to stay after Tet and did improve their application of air power to the point that the NVA was degraded out of existence, I do not think for a second that the North was nearly as incapable of regenerating the VC as you think or that the VC could not have been indefinitely effective at that point - IRL the VC were not comprehensively regenerated because the North favored continuing to build NVA capability and, in no small part, feared internal power struggles that would arise after their victory if there were a strong and autonomous VC in the South.I write all of this as a person who doesn't even think the US lost in Vietnam. I'm just using "won" and "lost" in the normie senses as they're vaguely assumed in schools or whatever.
>>65455106>North Vietnam straight up invaded Laos and CambodiaThey invaded Cambodia to stop the Khmer Rouge chimpout that was spilling into Vietnam. Pol Pot was a adherent to a particularly retarded and destructive iteration of communism that even other communists found repulsive.
>>65457630A mean IQ of 68 doesn't help either.Even without going full "1488RaceWarNOW" it does need to be reiterated just how much the commie/libtard post-war racial egalitarian consensus hurt the study of warfare, politics, and just any attempt to create predictive models of human behavior in general. Not only did those in power refuse to openly use predictive racialist models they actively punished, ostracized, and ruined anybody who did so. How many of the managerial classes in general and the actual controlling elites more narrowly actually believed that bullshit or were just using it as a front to prevent political opposition which could destroy their system(ie white nationalism and organized racism generally) is debatable. I'd say most actually powerful jews actually knew race was real and just didn't want to get holohoaxed for real, but what about the others. You have claims of Stalin loving a race-baiting negro-fetishizing movie about egalitarianism. How much of this shit was performative and how much was genuine emotion from retards who really wanted equality even if they knew it was impossible.TLDRL: military doctrine and discourse has been written by people fundamentally unable to describe the reality of the human condition for 80 years because "wacism bad" and so every time you read somebody talking about the potential utility of this or that shitskin nation as an ally you can't help but roll your eyes.
>>65454251We were fighting that war with our arms and legs tied together.
>>65454306People like listening to drug addicts, they mistake the psychosis and brain damage for esoteric wisdom
>>65458851>You have claims of Stalin loving a race-baiting negro-fetishizing movie about egalitarianism. How much of this shit was performative and how much was genuine emotion from retards who really wanted equality even if they knew it was impossible.I've read Kotkin on Stalin, and it turns out that behind closed doors communists talk about communist shit, there wasn't some act that was dropped in front of private company, those guys were 100% believers
>>65458869Afghanistan was exactly the same, there was no plan.Go in, kick Taliban ass and then what?
>>65456151>Fat.Vietnam hates China like Britain hates France. They don't claw for each others blood.>>65456367Arming the population so that at worst you get an Angola situation. Do you have something against giving civilians weapons and toppling tyrants?
>>65456494decolonization is a good thing, it liberated oppressed people. take your weird autistic hatred back to /pol/
>>65453764>>65453848>>65454204Only great takes in this thread. If you're in favor for spending your nations blood and treasure without anything to show for, you're in the wrong, simple as.If you're measuring your wars success in how much stuff you expend you're doubly wrong. War is about imposing your will upon the enemy. If the enemy doesn't submit to your will you lose.
>>65459571>War is about imposing your will upon the enemy. If the enemy doesn't submit to your will you lose.This is correct.But it's also true that the US military wasn't actually defeated in the field. The polical leadership was innefectual and mismanaged the war, but NV won by outlasting them and not their military forces.So when thirdies mock America for losing against "rice farmers" and pretending the US military was weaker somehow, they're being retarded.
>>65459675>yeah we lost to rice farmers>but we lost because of stupidity not weakness>so really we didn't lose to rice farmersThe distinction doesn't change that the whole venture was unforgivably retarded, and that's not only apparent in hindsight; any informed observer at the time who wasn't a trigger-happy world-policer would have opposed it.I care less about the 50,000 American dead than what the corruption and failure of leadership did to the domestic character of the United States.The casus belli was fabricated and the only thing to gain would have been a warlord of our choice running an irrelevant backwater.
>>65453682>a few more B-52 strikes and we would have won.
>>65454514War is the continuation of politics by other means. You can win every battle and still lose on the political front (as in Rhodesia).
>>65458892>not just lying psychos>actual race-cucks
>>65453682I feel like post tet offensive vietnam war would have been like post 2012 afghanistan.
>>65459734Yes.
>>65459766If you mean guys going home in droves and the remaining guys seeing zero point anymore, then yes.
>>65459707More like >if you bombed all the dykes in North Vietnam 12 million would die as a result and they'd have to capitulate or live in total shit for the sake of spite>if you blew up every dam in Iran they'd run out of water in a week, 30 million would die, and they'd have to capitulate or live in shit out of spite>if you nuked NK and Chinkland into ashes hundreds of millions would die and they'd have to capitulate or live in shit out of spiteIt is always possible to hold on if you are willing to roll around in the shit indefinitely, but it would at least nullify them as a real military threat. What is needed is the will to go further and hit all the population centers with nerve agents, drop agent orange on all the cropland, and then send kill teams to shoot anything warm-blooded over 20lbs so even if they don't get them all they starve to death.Overwhelming power can easily crush any amount of will, its just a matter of using it. I pine for the day that the US goes full apeshit white nationalist, and so should you if you love war if only to see the smug look wiped of the face of every political faggot when they realize that politics are obsolete and Clausewitz is dead.
