>>65463512
It woulda be sufficient for the remnants of the soviet bloc. Life was good, end of history etc.
No one expected that the Dragon awakes. Not the clowns in charge of this bordello at least.

>>65463512
You already made this thread the other week you nigger faggot.
https://desuarchive.org/k/search/text/The%20Intel%20i960MX%20/

>>65463534
Good repost, I didn't have a superior officer to point my attention into this subversion and I didn't see it before.

Implessive thread

>>65463512
Uses it to do what? Draw the graphics on the screens? Sure, it could do that no problem. All the serious calculations for the radars etc are done by custom hardware or FPGAs anyway. There's also probably hundreds of even more low-tech MCUs all over the aircraft controlling the various subsystems and feeding data into the central processing unit. I work on a project developing an embedded device with a retail cost of 40-50k per unit, and it still has a couple AVR MCUs controlling power etc

>>65463512
How is it that that thing can run a fucking fighter jet but my 1200 core multithreaded ryzen super mega cpu can't open microsoft word in less than 120 seconds?

>>65463512
What the fuck? A plane that first flew in the 90s has a CPU from the 90s?
No fucking way.

>>65463512
I immediately disregard anyone with an anime pfp and so should you

>>65463512
>>So that December, the Air Force bought its last 820 chips.
It's called a lifetime supply. This is comman sustanability.

>>65463675
Bloatwate and spyware

>>65463725
i have all that disabled

>>65463512
/v/ tourist here, my only knowledge of planes comes from ace combat and knowing a couple of them by name and appearance, including my wife the F-15E. I have a question
how hard/easy would it be for them to upgrade the system/hardware so that they can install newer, still in production, cpus on it? Say they want to put ryzen 7 9800x3d on all raptors out there. On a gaming pc this is piss easy, just change the motherboard to an am5 board and potentially the ram to ddr5... how would that work on an airplane?
thanks in advance

>>65463675
>>65463725
>>65463735
The real reason is highly optimized code takes longer to write and requires better programmers that want to be paid more.
Why would a profit driven business increase their overheads for something customers will just accept being shit?
It's not like you have started using LibreOffice so MS doesn't care.

>>65463756
i used libre office and other alternatives but i occasionally have to use word for compatibility purposes
stop being a smug retard jumping to conclusions

>>65463752
First, there's the obvious issue of it being an entirely different socket design. Second, it's a 32-bit processor and modern CPUs are almost entirely 64-bit, so all the software would need to be rewritten. This then raises the possibility of the new software not playing well with the remaining old hardware and corresponding software, meaning you're either rewriting all of that to update it or starting new software from scratch, or replacing the hardware entirely.

tl;dr you'd effectively have to rebuild the entire god damn plane

>>65463762
Jesus... seems like a potential for a cascade of issues one after the other, yeah doesn't seem practical at all, thanks

>>65463735
No you don't. You're using bloatware and spyware as you typed that.
What you observe as efficiency and responsiveness is a hallmark of personal computing as it was passed down from a time where computing was a limited resource.
This limit on compute was essentially not in consideration during the popularization of the web. The silicon valley types had such hubris that they thought so long as the foundation was sound, compute limitations can be ignored.
This presents itself in all sorts of ways, but software slop is all still based on this push based on the web - the browser.
Modern software all runs on it in some way. Your apps are glorified webpages. Utility software that for some reason runs on a fucking JavaScript interpreter. It did not occur to anyone that assigning an entire mini operating system to a browser, to be run on top of its native operating system, with the browser handling its own sandboxing, is a disgrace to computing. It did not occur to them because they never believed computing should be personal, the only thing that mattered was pushing the web, the one thing they could centralize and monetize.
A tower of Babel with intentions impure. Look at the fucks that it's attracted - Palantir, RAM hoarders shown up by DeepSeek, billionaires installing cameras to find kids to fuck. It deserves to collapse.

>>65463675
Hey, at least you aren't in the USAF's position. You can actually get a nice new CPU that fits your socket right now for like 100 bucks (AND 5500 are still less than $100, right?). Unless someone in charge wants to solder new CPUS onto existing hardware AND have the code rewritten to make it compatible, the F-22 might be on its final legs.
Genuinely sucks too, I love the F-22.

>>65463783
didn't read

>>65463675
>>65463756
Actual performance-intensive algorithms aren't run on CPUs, that would be extremely wasteful. You couldn't run a phased array demodulation routine in real time with even the latest gen of high-performance CPUs. They use ASICs (basically custom application-specific silicon) for the hot loops, maybe FPGAs for less intense parts that need to stay upgradeable. CPUs are good for servers, gaming, general purpose because they can run single threads with a lot of conditional execution/branching very fast. They're shit at massively parallel workloads, which is why you also have a GPU to do graphics stuff and don't render 3D in software.

>>65463512
>The F-22's avionics used Intel's i960MX processor.

>90s cpu on a mcm designed in the 80s

who even fucking write this shit

>>65463530
>Not the clowns in charge of this bordello at least.
The clowns are in denial to this day btw kek

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>>65463530

>>65463798
It's not that hard technically, they can just synthesize the core in gateware and get a drop-in replacement with no software changes needed. It's a 90s chip after all. It would consume a bit more power, nothing crazy though. The main costs would be buying the IP from Intel and recertification.

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>>65463752
>I have a question
>how hard/easy would it be for them to upgrade the system/hardware so that they can install newer, still in production, cpus on it?
They started that in 2021. Curtis-Wright got the contract.
https://curtisswright.com/news/press-releases/news-release-details/2021/Curtiss-Wright-Selected-by-Lockheed-Martin-Aeronautics-to-Provide-First-Open-Architecture-COTS-Modules-for-Service-Onboard-F-22-Raptor-Aircraft

But, the F-22's "computer" isn't like your PC at home that has a motherboard and 1 CPU. It uses something called Common Integrated Processors (CIPs) which are basically supercomputers. The F-22 has two CIPs installed, with room for a third one if they need even more raw processing power. Each CIP has 66 slots that each take one processor card per slot, though not all are filled with processors. IIRC the F-22 had around 35 CPUs, and with both CIPs had the computing power of 4 Cray super computers back in 1995. The CIPs in the F-22 were upgraded with PowerPC processor cards in around 2005-ish, too. Everything is connected with fiber optic data cables for high transfer speeds. I think the YF-23 was even more powerful, with the test pilots saying that the YF-23's processing unit was just as powerful that the literal supercomputer Northrop Grumman used in their main facility. By no means am I an expert on the F-22's CIPs, just know the basics that are public.

>>65463762
>you'd effectively have to rebuild the entire god damn plane
No, see above.

>>65463825
F-22's processing unit (CIP) was developed around 1995. Different subparts of a huge project like this don't all magically finish development at the same moment. Crazy, I know.

>>65463856
I'll pull this from the last thread OP made, as it talks about the mid-2000s CIP upgrades done on the F-22:
>Around Lot 5 production (mid-2000s), the Air Force began swapping out portions of the old i960-based processing cards inside the central Common Integrated Processors (CIPs).
>They transitioned to PowerPC processors equipped with Motorola's AltiVec vector execution units for heavy radar signal processing and data fusion.
> The modular liquid-cooled CIP design allowed technicians to pull out older circuit cards and slide in new commercial-off-the-shelf (COTS) PowerPC cards without redesigning the entire aircraft frame or flight control wiring.

>During the 2010s, software demands for weapons integration (like AIM-9X and AIM-120D) outstripped hardware capacity. The USAF executed memory expansion, processor node additions, and bus speed upgrades within CIP 1 and CIP 2, while utilizing the extra physical slot reserved for a third CIP.

>Recent modernization initiatives introduced an Open Mission Systems (OMS) compute enclave.
>By adding modern auxiliary mission processing units running containerized software stacks (such as Kubernetes and Defense Unicorns' software deployment layers), software updates can now be pushed directly to open compute enclaves on the jet in minutes rather than taking months of OEM integration.

>>65463870
> 32.3.1 Common Integrated Processor (CIP)

>The Common Integrated Processor (CIP), developed by Raytheon Systems Company, provides the memory, I/O, data, and signal processing capability required for the IAS. It has an open, expandable architecture supporting radar, EW, CNI, mission software and Controls, and Displays processing requirements. The F-22 core processing system uses two installed CIPs (with growth space for a third). Each CIP contains 66 SEM-E slots in two rows. Due to the wide utilization of common modules, only 13 unique CIP module types are utilized. To provide for additional growth, each CIP is about two-thirds populated.

>32.3.1.1 CIP LRM Types

>The Dual Data Processing Element

(DDPE) is the backbone of the CIP’s digital processing capability. Each DDPE has two independent, 32-bit, 25-MHz Intel 80960 (i960®) microprocessors on each side of a SEM-E module. Each side of the DDPE operates as a general purpose computer executing Ada code. The DDPE module is Liquid Flow-Through (LFT) cooled, weighs 1.2 lb and is connected to the CIP backplane by a standard connector which uses 332 electrical pins and 4 fiber optic and two coolant connections. The IAS employs 13 DDPEs to support radar, EW, CNI, and MS/W functions. Currently, product improvement programs plan to replace the Intel i960® with a state-of-art processor in 2005.

If you'd like to read more about the hardware/software and how it all comes together.
https://www.studocu.com/en-us/document/california-state-university-san-bernardino/stem-education-advanced-research/the-avionics-handbook-cap-32-raptor/123023315?sid=9a73029c-3573-4447-a8d0-ff56b38bedc91787997760

>>65463856
>Curtiss-Wright
Wtf those fuckers are still alive

>>65463926
Yeah, I was surprised to hear it too. They've seemed to pivot into electronics, and still make higher-end valves and shit. Seems like they've done well over the years, honestly. They've made a lot of smart decisions over the years to continue growing and adapt. I thought they died out or got bought up decades ago.

>>65463539
>y-you have a s-superior officer!
why are thirdies so whiny, indirect and pathetic?

>>65463926
This reminds me of how people are always surprised Nokia not only still exists but is like the 2nd or 3rd largest telecom infrastructure company on the planet.

>>65463530
keep it up wumao and we'll make it a millenium of humiliation

>>65464063
Open the Strat of Hormuz first

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>If you travelled back in time to the cold war with a piece of current tech your gaming pc would be more valuable than a F-22 because its nano scale material science is much more scifi than the avionics of the worlds most advanced fighter jet
Funny how nature do that

>>65464068
already happened, seems to be making you guys very upset lmao.

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>>65463512
>>65463539
Oh lovely another episode of "chinkshill makes the exact same thread and hopes we don't make fun of him this time" this is my favorite show :DD

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>>65464068

>>65463823
This is a side-note since it doesn't really interact with your overall point (which is correct for mil hardware) but you are underselling the CPUs a bit.

>which is why you also have a GPU to do graphics stuff and don't render 3D in software.
GPUs are only for quick and shitty immitations.
CGI for real movies, realistic or Disney is done on fucktons and fucktons of server CPUs because raytracing (real, photorealistic raytracing, not the kiddie shit Nvidia is selling to retards) actually involves a lot of high precision calculations with lots of branching.
GPUs are only big PP when you can stick all the RAM right on the chip but you can't plausibly fit a whole Disney city onto those measly tiny cards.

So yes, you do render cutting edge 3D in software.

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>>65463512
>what the fuck is that custom spec military hardware muh strategic supply chains think of the taxpayer!
>holy shit is that off the shelf hardware purchased by the military muh strategic supply chains im going insaney in the membrainy!
Jesus Christ, Is there no pleasing (You), faggot?

>>65464123
People are just surprised that the "best" and most "advanced" fighter aircraft in the world uses obsolete hardware

>>65464139
Except it doesn't, as has been repeatedly pointed out in two threads now. Continuing to pretend otherwise won't suddenly make reality change, that's not how the world works outside of chinkistan

>>65464123
It's also how basically all military hardware works. It's not a fucking PC where you swap out the CPU and GPU every three to five years by grabbing whatever's available, you have a narrow set of needs and a single integrated package of equipment, software and hardware to work together. Then you develop upgrade packages that either work with those initial choices, or find ways to replace them for newer/more available parts if required.
It's how it all fucking works.

>>65464099
Cool, didn't know that. I'd assume they would be using stacks upon stacks of workstation-level GPUs, but I've never worked with graphics especially at this level

>>65464084
>turning off their radars to sneak by undetected.
Wow, what a power move. Chinkshill sisters, how do we cope?

This happens a lot in engineering. There's a lot of autism about consistency and if you change chips often times you have to run a whole suite of expensive tests all over, so it can be cheaper to buy years/decades worth of replacement parts as a stockpile. I worked at a company that had to hunt down Google Pixel phones in South America when they got discontinued.

Even if it was mostly painless, why would you want to upgrade a fighter plane CPU every two years or whatever? It wouldn't accomplish much.

>>65464139
But it’s not obsolete for its job there. When you have custom hardware for a device that has one clearly defined job and the hardware is good enough for that and reliable, there’s no need to muck around with it just for the sake of moar power. Now, if new functionality or procurement issues require it, that’s an another story.

>>65464013
This is like saying people don't know that Nokian tires are made by one of the world's largest telecom infrastructure providers. They aren't, Nokian Tyre was spun off into a separate company in the 80s.

>>65463622
IIRC all the computational heavy lifting was done with 32 i960s networked across the airframe. I'd occasionally come across 860s and 960s still doing signal processing at one of my old jobs where a lot of the hardware was designed back when VLIW was still a good way to do DSP

>>65463512
For an aircraft that started being designed in the 1980s, that’s actually impressive.

>>65464318
Yeah I don't buy that, you don't run a 1,956 element phased array radar DSP routine with 32 off-the-shelf cores from the 90s. Maybe its radar has its own custom hardware for the heavy lifting, which they don't count as part of the airframe processing ability? I could see it being part of the radar assembly itself

>>65464072
Goddam' I love this retarded cat.

>>65464318
>>65464557
It doesn't even make sense when you compare the actual clock frequencies. How does one do processing on an X-band (10s of GHz) range with a Mhz-clocked processor in real time? There's gotta be a stage doing some serious decimation somewhere in between. And it's gotta be pretty smart, cause it doesn't use simple waveforms, it does frequency hopping and all kinds of Low Probability of Intercept stuff. I don't know shit about radar signal processing, but it doesn't pass the smell test

>>65464591
>X-band (10s of GHz) range with a Mhz-clocked processor
These things don't have anything to do with each other.

>>65463735
>i have all that disabled
lol, lmao, kek, hahahaha, rofl, lel, etc.

>>65464591
Downconversion into an ADC or ASIC that then sends data to the CPUs

>>65463530
>No one expected that the Dragon awakes
Implessive ESL!

>>65464591
How can you listen to a radio tuned to 107.3 MHz when you can only perform one calculation per second or less?

>>65464557
>>65464591
The original radar has 4 IQ baseband data streams of some bandwidth. You want to back of the envelope it at say 100 MHz bandwidth, that's 8 times 100 megasamples (maybe 8-bit?) times number of operations in the DSP chain amount of floating/fixed point ops, of course it would be decimated as soon as possible.

>>65463675
F-22 wasn't programmed by jeets.

>>65463835
So what's the maximum angle of attack, 20 degrees? Provably as maneuverable as a B-2, but won't have nowhere the range or the payload capacity of a true bomber, or the RCS, chink engineering.

>>65463675
Because you have a shitty old pc?

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>>65464762
implessive

>>65464357
Tluly implessive.

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>>65464762
The splinter camo is cool

>>65464644
But that's times the number of T/R elements, right?
>>65464618
You demodulate, sample and decimate. There's some SDRs that digitize then do everything in digital, which means you can theoretically decode every station at once. For advanced radars, my guess would be that you'd want to do everything in digital, for basically the same reasons.

>>65465053
Based on a quick reading, the original F-22 radar cannot do fully independent digital baseband streams to each T/R element, which makes sense to me considering the age of the tech. I work on comms not radar (and am a stranger on a basket weaving forum) so grain of salt

>>65463512
Nothing a fighter jet is doing actually requires that complicated of math and processing.

>>65463856
>But, the F-22's "computer" isn't like your PC at home that has a motherboard and 1 CPU. It uses something called Common Integrated Processors (CIPs) which are basically supercomputers. The F-22 has two CIPs installed, with room for a third one if they need even more raw processing power. Each CIP has 66 slots that each take one processor card per slot, though not all are filled with processors. IIRC the F-22 had around 35 CPUs, and with both CIPs had the computing power of 4 Cray super computers back in 1995.
Yeah, that is nonsense.
There'd be literally no reason for the machine to need or require that kind of processing power and it would be a huge production bottleneck for no reason.

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>>65465172
>Yeah, that is nonsense.
No it's not, you ignorant fucking idiot...

>>65464139
>obsolete
no such thing
it's "fit for purpose".

>>65463798
They use hardware and software emulators to replace the chips. Expensive but probably not even 1% of the cost of rewriting code for a new processor and recertifying it.

>>65464762
Looks like a brick flying, and this must be empty, imagine when it's full load, the amount of gas needed for these 3 chink engines

>>65465172
>There'd be literally no reason for the machine to need or require that kind of processing power
It's as much processing power as a pentium 3. It was a lot for the time but it's a joke now.

>>65463512
It would take like a month and a few lines of code to use another cpu. However assuming proper maintenance 800 chips is more then enough for decades for less than 200 or so planes still in service.

>>65463512
>Avoiding modern jeetware
Smart

>>65464591
Radio frequency is not processing frequency, and radio frequency is not processing amount.
for radio the freq is just the size of the wave. in computing the freq is how many in x time it "turns on and off" i.e. how quick the computer can move whatever amount of bits it's physically designed to handle in a single operation
The band width of that frequency channel(s) is the processing amount.
CPU terminology is not radio terminology anon.

so a 10Ghz radio might operate with 100mhz of band width. the computer has to perform FFT on the signal received to convert it to data. how this is all handled is variable, depends on how it was designed
but lets say you have a single 100mhz band width stream (that's fucking huge btw), want milisecond update rate (that's reaslly fucking fast btw), a per-block resolution of 1.25Khz (that's really fucking small for the radio freq and bandwidth, btw), are working with fast int8, and your computer is specially designed (or programmed) to be able to handle int8 chunks in 128-bit large hardware units.
you have a 1 milisecond window to push out 80,000 blocks to meet your target. let's assume your FFT calc-in-hardware can produce a result in 120 clock cycles, what with all the shit that has to move and be waited on and move again so on so forth.
now remember this calculating is batched in groups of 16 - so you can push 16 blocks every 120 cycles.
So you need the computer to perform 5,000 chunks of ops in 1ms, each op takes 120clock, working the math back gives a mere 600Mhz of CPU speed,
in a perfect world where all the numbers are exactly as I described them for the purpose of example.

the f-22 doesn't have 1 cpu it has dozens.
it's "not that hard"

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>>65464072
>gayman pc
Depends what part of the Cold War you go back to. In the 80's and possibly the 70's it'd still be amazing sci-fi magic but at least would be recognisable to them, if you really wanted to blow minds then you'd need to show them a phone. Cramming this much tech into such a small form factor complete with a (compared to what was available at the time) long-life battery capable of running it all would be astonishing.

In 1991, the year the USSR finally died, pic related was the peak of pocket-sized portable computing; powered by 2 AA batteries with a 240x80 screen.

Zhang probably put RTX 5090s in the J-20 thinking it will make the jet fly faster or something.

>>65466554
Not flying faster but it'd have more computing power for IA and controlling CCAs.

>>65464842
Implessive

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>>65463798
The F-22's production equipment is somehow deader than the Spitfire's.

>>65463752
>upgrade the system/hardware so that they can install newer, still in production, cpus on it?
A lot of time and money to redesign and test and a lot of time and money to validate. You're overthinking to put a gaming PC, although a CUDA stack might have some uses for signal and image processing for key sensors like radar and cameras.

Most of these chips are really just overgrown microcontrollers. You could absolutely run an aircraft using a car's microcontroller CANBUS.

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>>65464084
400% of zero is still zero

>>65463675
You'd be surprised at what a CPU considered obsolete by todays standards can do without layers upon layers upon layers of bloated abstraction.
Hit the hardware directly and you get amazing performance. You only get what you program though, you don't get convenience at all.

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>>65463735
>i have all that disabled

>>65463756
>The real reason is highly optimized code takes longer to write and requires better programmers that want to be paid more.
Defence programmers make well under market rate. They don't even make what H1B programmers at FAANG make. On the other hand they don't crunch and have good job security thanks to clearances and the stability of the industry. The point about being better written is, imho, valid and correct though. The code is much more performant and safe than anything running on thay /v/irgin's cheetoh dusted computer. It's all written in MISRA compliant C, which is vastly more difficult and tedious to write than basically anything FAANG is doing these days (OG Microsoft was in the good old days) but is also much more performant and safer. MISRA doesn't see use outside of safety critical applications like aerospace and automotive, and F22 is doing much harder things than cars.

do we go to YOUR country's 4chan and shit it up with psyop threads?

>>65463622
>AVR
I am triggered by these letters and having flashbacks to pouring over their fucking ISM and having to write everything in their dweeb dialect of assembly because compilers apparently all really do suck that fucking much with an AVR target.

>>65463675
Microslop Jeetware.

Wait till you hear we still code in Ada for MIC.

>>65463822
Should have, it was a bit extreme but interesting.