In a topic that I'm sure will be of no interest to anyone I want to talk about the Lorraine 37L and it's weird variants.The French military had (quite reasonably) came to the conclusion that in a future war tanks would need supply across stretches of terrain that trucks could not cross and in closer contact with the enemy than unarmored vehicles could survive. The Lorraine 37L was designed and built to satisfy their request for a fully armored resupply unit to operate with armored units. 1/?
The layout of the Lorraine had the driver and assistant driver (who as far as I can tell did not have an MG to operate, at least not in production models) sitting in the front, a mid-mounted engine and a storage compartment at the rear. Ammo for the tanks, spare parts and other goods would be carried there, and everything was protected by thin armor good enough for rifle caliber small arms fire and shrapnel.
The Lorraine 37L was very short and narrow, as is evident by this photograph. Still had very good suspension and cross country ability though
For fueling French tanks, the Lorraine would tow an armored fuel cell behind it. This fuel trailer had a self-contained pump, allowing the Lorraine to transfer it's fuel load in about 15 minutes.
>>65487803Sooo panzerfaust and Tiger food.
Lorraines were in service by the time of WWII, although given the lack of large scale French armored movements it's questionable how useful they were and there's quite a few photos of rows of them destroyed and burnt.
neat thread OP
Also they made an super kawaii version>>65487810Yeah man the 9mm frontal plate wasn't going to stand up to an 88mm armor piercing shell
Anyways, the base model of the Lorraine isn't what I find interesting, but rather the variants that developed from it. To act as an artillery tractor the cargo compartment had it's walls heightened, allowing the gun crew to ride in relative safety.Perhaps inspired by this, someone got a visit from the Really Good Idea fairy and started looking at that fuel trailer and started plotting...
Resulting in this, one of the world's first fully tracked APCs that towed an infantry trailed behind it. Four men could ride in the rear of the Lorraine itself, with another six in the armored trailer. I'm uncertain if the assistant driver would be part of this infantry complement or not, but regardless having 10 men fully protected (sans the roof) on a fully tracked platform is impressive. The trailer part, maybe not.
Another angle of the combo
The next iteration would look shockingly modern, raising and extending the floor of the rear compartment while extending the front of the hull upwards. Squint a bit or give it only a glance and you could be forgiven for thinking this is an M113.
Still no armored roof but the 8 men it could carry would probably be better protected than German troops in Sdkfz 251s
After France fell Germany would convert some of these into a variety of SPGs, artillery tractors and other variants. Here is an artillery observation version
And one of only a handful of photos of one with a Panzer I turret slapped on, probably for occupying forces.
During the occupation French factories would continue to manufacture them, claimed to be tractors. Late war some of these would be turned into makeshift combat vehicles, by both French forces and German units with nothing better.
And someone, somehow, some way managed to bolt a 17lber on one
Based smol tonkDid they have radio?
It’s all well and good to have given the trailer off-road capability, but it looks like tank capacity and paved-road performance have been sacrificed as a result.
>>65487868None of the photos I've seen (apart from some German variants) seem to have radio masts so I don't think so. At least according to wikipedia the armored resupply point was supposed to be prearranged
>>65487915
>>65487889>the armored resupply point was supposed to be prearrangedI guess the French are not big fans of Clausewitz
I am a big fan of their 25mm AT gun
The Canon de 194 GPF, the worlds first SPG
>>65488221>drink beer>forget how to postwhoops
>>65487833huh neat, didnt know about any of these.
OP, got a pic of that prototype panhard EBR from like 1939? And if you got any other armoured vehicle prototypes (france, interwar and ww2) it'd be appreciated.
Good thread OP. It interesting to see how far along the french got into mechanising their army, and how hard they got fucked due to short term political idiocy and penny pinching.
A vehicle intended for close logistics not equipped with any weapon seems imprudent to me.
>>65487813IIRC they only got issued to armored divisions, and those guys didn't do too well during the invasion. French C2 failed massively and instead of using their armor and mechanization to create a breakthrough for the infantry to exploit as was intended by doctrine, the heavy armor DCCs were forced to be used defensively to plug holes in the line and react to Gemran exploitations.
>>65489138nah that's not itwhat actually happened was that they lost air superiority, and the Luftwaffe bombed and shot everything which slowed movement down to a crawl and inflicted significant casualties, so there was no way to "react to German exploitations" even if they wanted to>forced to be used defensively to plug holes in the linefrom 1944 to this day, this is how NATO mechanised infantry divisions have been formed, so that wasn't really the problem
>Bren Carrier, French:O
The P16, a late 20s/early 30s half-track tank(?)
>>65488767This thing?
>>65489304Drive me like you'd drive one of your French Bren Carriers.
since this is becoming a more general the fall of France tread. something most people don't know is the Polish connection to the fall of France. Polish officers that managed to evade capture and made it back to France were debriefed by the French. one of the things that came up in those again and again was Polish officers claiming that their radio communications must have been getting intercepted and some even claiming that the land lines where bugged.the French by and large believed this and this contributed to their less than lack luster command. with armies, core and division being reluctant to use wireless communications. once the Luftwaffe had degraded the telephone network and armored spear head had gotten into the French rear that meant that they often resorted to couriers.the Germans btw did make efforts to listen in on enemy communications ofc. but they didn't have much success. the reason why the Poles and French thought the Germans did tap Polish communications was due to just how decisive the German victory was over Poland. the Germans tapping communication would go a long way towards explaining that.the funny and tragic result being is that in turn cause the French to put up less effective effort than they could have.
>>65489972a classic instance of the intangible effects of manoeuvrist "shock", the speed of the assault and the focus on attacking C3 and lines of communication causing otherwise intact troops to panic, spread rumours, and surrender
>>65488221>the worlds first SPGNot quite
France's dedication to developing motorized and armored logistics is fascinating in their complete misunderstanding, limited designs and misallocation of armored fighting vehicles in combat roles
>>65487833This is Gavin’s great uncle from France.
I like how you can that spark of innovation the French have but horrible generals and execution leads to it being shelved or arriving way too late
>>65488224>>65490641That shit looks so cool.
>>65488224>>drink beerGerman spy! A true Frenchman would drink wine and forget how to post.
Colonial policing variant of the Laffly S15>>65490641I once again blame alcohol, I read:>the first French tracked self-propelled gunand missed the word "French"
Couple more French armored cars
I always find these sort of vehicles fascinating in that while they may have been obsolete at the start of the war thats still a armored, mobile gun truck that perhaps a few years could have been a real threat. The utility of AT rifles would have been neat to see
>>65488221They experimented with mounting a m1897 on a FT.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk-pHHkgkK0
>>65489953yep. pretty neat desu. i wonder if there is anything in the french archives nobody has ever found regarding ww2 prototypes
>>65489949It looks like something that would belong in 40k and I like it.
>>65487808>the Lorraine would tow an armored fuel cellThat's not armored.
Panhard 165/175 Command/Radio variant
>>65492473
>>65492490
>>65492492What's with that parasitic twin-looking mini-wheel set-up?
>>65492608they are there in case one of the other sets of wheels goes on strike
Remarkable thread, a rarity in these dark days.
>>65492621>in case one of the other sets of wheels goes on strikeAn absolute necessity with anything Frenchist
What's interesting is the Germans made extensive use of captured Czech tanks in Barbarossa, but despite capturing 1,500 assorted Renault R35's and Hotchkiss H35/H39's and 300 SOMUA S35's they barely used them aside from some R35's sent to die in northern Finland. Not using the Somua's is particularly puzzling. >>65491120>>65491137These could have worked. Thing of the Bong cruiser tank concept but smaller and better. You make your line-break with your heavies, your mediums exploit through the second line and then your little speedy bois race off to create anarchy in the deep rear. Not really useful when you're defending tho.
>>65492667they used them for garrison duties and even mounted their turrets on fixed positions it mainly boiled down to, are they any good? not having a radio was a strike on that pointdo we have enough to make use of them?more than enoughare we going to continue production?nopewhat kind of logistics train would we need for them?to much to be worth itthat's also why most belgian and French artillery got used by garrison and rear line units.they didn't want to keep producing the munition, they didn't want to supply the munition. so you just assign them to static units and pool the existing munition where they are.
>>65492643posted like a sir
>>65487915>>65487921real kawaii
P28 is cute
"Watch out panzer, imma get you with my low velocity 37mm!"
>The vehicle’s armor had been raised to a maximum of 9 mm, however, quite shockingly for a production run of an armored vehicle, it was not manufactured using military quality steel, but instead mild steel; with a thickness of 9mm, this meant the P28 had basically no protection at all, being vulnerable to even rifle-caliber bullets.
This Frenchman manages to aura farm despite being in a heap of shit (note fat controller in background)
It looks fun though
A German 1930s SMG design, sold to Spain, adopted by France when they accepted Republican refugees, fought against the Germans then was used to equip French collaborationist SS division that fought to the end of the war
shameless bump
>>65491120What's up with the muzzle device on this one? I've never seen anything like that.
>>65498346I havent either, my assumption would be to deflect muzzle blast from the roof of the cab, maybe to avoid throwing up water if it's wet or dust in the desert? Would seem unnecessary for a rifle caliber turret but iunno
>be france>want to adopt a semi-auto battle rifle in the 30s as your standard issue infantry weapon>trials are incomplete/your factories aren't properly tooled to churn them out yet>start producing a bolt action rifle as a stopgap using the same design as your semi-auto rifle until you're ready to just start churning out battle rifles
>>65498346>>65498378It's an early pattern flash hider which made the shooter even more visible by kicking up a bunch of dust AND doubled as an anti-compensator. I wish I was joking.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TFvBMdvuwY -- skip to 3:37Gotta give it to the frenchies, they've always been the sharpest spoon in the knife drawer.
>>65487801>TFW no Citroen Kegress yet
The Bloch MB.81, an single-engine aircraft for medical transport
