Everyone talks about how while the Vietnamese Army did topple the Khmer Rouge in just two weeks, but the new government they installed was incredibly weak and unpopular. It was seen as a Vietnamese puppet state (which it sorta was) and a massive insurgency movement soon began. Some of the insurgents were former Khmer Rouge soldiers, but there were also monarchists and nationalists, all opposed to the new government and Vietnamese rule. Things got so bad that between 150,000-200,000 Vietnamese soldiers were stationed in Cambodia over the course of the more than ten year long occupation.
>>65493090At least they usurped that slant-eyed devil who was bent on emptying his country of people. Imagine a country so fucked that the Vietnamese had to go in and restore humanity. I hate commies of all kinds but have to give credit where credit is due.
>>65493090Unlike the conflict with America, this war did not receive massive Soviet or Chinese financial aid. The campaign was funded largely by the Vietnamese state, making it increasingly unpopular. The government also avoided calling it a war, instead describing it as an “internationalist mission,” which further obscured the nature of the conflict.Reports of Vietnamese soldiers raping Cambodian women and killing innocent Cambodian men also became public, causing considerable controversy within Vietnamese society.
>>65493113It's still wild to me how many sympathizers the Khmer Rouge had internationally.
>>65493113The Cambodian resistance could broadly be divided into three groups, the Khmer Rouge loyalists, the KPNLF, made up largely of former military junta from before the Khmer Rouge came to power and the Sihanoukists. Royalists and Buddhists who wanted a return to the monarchy. The latter two received American support, including arms and funding and operated along the Thai border. It’s a tankie myth that the US was directly funding and training the Khmer Rouge in Thailand. The Khmer Rouge were primarily armed and supported by the Chinese. That said, Thailand and the US did tolerate their presence along the border and allowed them to use Thai territory as a base from which to launch attacks against Vietnamese forces.
>>65493113>this war did not receive massive Soviet or Chinese financial aidThe reason why China didn't support the Vietnamese was because Khmer Rouge was supported by the PRC due to Khmer Rouge's maoist ideology. Vietnam also started to align themselves with the Soviets instead of the Chinese during the Sino-Soviet split, which made them enemies. Hell they even invaded Vietnam in the Sino-Vietnamese war.
>>65493140>>65493126Perhaps the most bizarre part of all this was how Western far-leftists reacted to the war. To understand why they reacted that way, you have to briefly understand the Sino-Soviet split and the rise of the New Left. The Soviet Union and its Marxist-Leninist ideology were seen as this rigid, “red-fascist” ideology by the counterculture and the USSR was viewed as only slightly less evil than Western imperialism. Mao on the other hand was seen as the real revolutionary who was going to liberate the world’s oppressed. Everyone was suddenly a Maoist, even if they had absolutely no idea what that actually meant.Then the Sino-Soviet split seemed to confirm everything they already believed, that the USSR was an imperialist power, while China was the genuinely revolutionary alternative. So when Vietnam kicked the Khmer Rouge out of Cambodia, a lot of them basically interpreted it as Vietnam becoming an imperialist power itself and falling into the chauvinism and nationalism of Marxism-Leninism.
>>65493180https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-5/wc-kampuchea-2.htm>Vietnam’s naked aggression against Kampuchea and the Kampuchean people reached a new level with the capture of the capital city at Phnom Penh on Jan. 7. After a 16 day full scale armed invasion involving over 100,000 troops and heavy aerial bombing, the Vietnamese are now claiming control over “almost all” of Kampuchea.>Yet despite their claims of widespread popular support, resistance to the Vietnamese invaders continues to be fierce throughout the country. Fighting is reportedly heavy at the country’s only deep water port at Kompong Som and several islands northwest of it. The Kampuchean army still remains in control of the provincial capital at Pursat, 100 miles northwest of Phnom Penh. In addition heavy fighting continues in Battambang, northwest Kampuchea’s major city, Sisophon 30 miles east of the Thai border and at Nimit 13 miles from the frontier.>These examples of resistance reflect the heroic revolutionary spirit of the Kampuchean people. As our Chinese comrades state, “The capture of Phnom Penh by the Vietnamese does not mean the end but the beginning of the war.” As is evident the Kampuchean Revolutionary Army and people under the leadership of the Kampuchean Communist Party (CPK) are already actively waging a people’s war. While the Vietnamese control the towns, the Kampuchean army remains strong in most of the countryside enjoying the full support of the people. Ieng Sary, Deputy Prime Minister of Kampuchea, speaking in Peking said that Kampuchea would continue fighting even though its army was heavily outnumbered by the Vietnamese. “We do not have so big an army but we have the people with us,” he said. “We will take the weapons we need from the Vietnamese. An aggressor is never strong.”
>>65493182https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ca.secondwave/october-kamp.htm>The military aggression against Democratic Kampuchea early this January and its occupation by more than ten heavily Soviet-equipped Vietnamese divisions shocked the whole world.>Many people were stunned to see Vietnam attempting to forcibly annex a neighbouring people who were previously their comrades-in-arms.>But we see today that after the American war of destruction, instead of devoting its energies to the reconstruction of the country for the welfare of its people, Vietnam consolidated and developed its military forces in order to extend its control over neighbouring countries. Vietnam is practising regional hegemonism, that is, using all means, including military occupation, outright colonization and systematic pillage, to become the master of Southeast Asia.>Vietnam’s ambitions fit right in with Soviet plans for world domination. Vietnam needs Soviet military help to wage its wars of aggression. And through this help, the Soviet Union is consolidating its hold over Vietnam and is turning it into another Cuba. However strong an imperialist power may be, it cannot hope to control the whole world completely on its own. It needs to establish faithful allies, who, like Vietnam today, are themselves ambitious and aggressive, to do its job in certain regions of the world.
>>65493113>Reports of Vietnamese soldiers raping Cambodian women and killing innocent Cambodian men also became publicMega based!
>>65493185https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-5/cpml-kamp-leaders.htm>The Central Committee of the Communist Party (Marxist-Leninist) of the U.S. sent the following statement of support to the leaders of Democratic Kampuchea–Prime Minister Pol Pot, Deputy Prime Minister Ieng Sary, and President Khieu Samphan.>The Communist Party (Marxist-Leninist) of the United States gives its full support to the Kampuchean people in their present efforts to resist the Vietnamese aggression now taking place in Democratic Kampuchea.>No matter how many acts of aggression, invasion, subversion and occupation are launched by the Vietnamese leaders and their Soviet masters, we are certain that they will never succeed in conquering the Kampuchean people, whose precious liberation was achieved only three-and-a-half years ago after defeating U.S. imperialism and its puppets on the battlefield.>During the war of national liberation from 1970 to 1975, the Kampuchean people were in the front lines of the world struggle against U.S. imperialism. Today they are in the front lines of the fight against the Soviet imperialists who seek to dominate the entire world and their Vietnamese agents who pursue the aim of regional hegemonism in Southeast Asia.>We are not fooled by the Vietnamese efforts to conceal their aggression under the cloak of a puppet organization made up of a handful of Kampuchean traitors. We know that the entire Kampuchean nation is unified in its resolve to defeat the Vietnamese aggression, liberate the country once again, and carry forward the tasks of the socialist revolution.1/2
>>65493188>We are also not fooled by the appearance of Vietnamese and Soviet military superiority. We know that the Revolutionary Army of Kampuchea and the Kampuchean people are at this very moment in the mountains, the jungle, and all parts of the countryside, ready to unfold a protracted people’s war which no aggressor will be able to survive.>We expect that the flag of oppression and domination which has been hoisted by the Vietnamese aggressors temporarily over Phnom Penh will not be able to fly for long. We have every confidence that the three gold towers on the field of red–the only flag that represents the Kampuchean people–will fly once again in Phnom Penh.>Our Party’s support for the Kampuchean people is unshakeable. We will do everything in our power to support you in your present struggle.2/2
Bruh I ain’t reading all that, where’s my anime t shirt order.
>>65493126My personal favorite is that one western communist sympathizer who went to Cambodia to meet with Pol Pot himself because he was invited, and then got fucking killed over an off hand comment.
>>65493215I heard about that but thought it only happened because the guy was an "intellectual'. What comment did he make lmao
>murder literally an entire quarter of your country>specifically murder pretty much anyone who is or even just might have an IQ above room temperature, meaning all your countries doctors, engineers, and everyone keeping the lights on, put retarded children in charge of relearning medicine from scratch by injecting coconut milk into people's veins and seeing what happens>western leftist act like the Vietnamese are the bad guys hereNever underestimate the pure evil of a commie
>>65493218I think pretty much anything would piss off a bunch of starving beaten and brainwashed teenagers
>>65493218No one actually knows, all they know is at some random point when talking with Pol Pot he just absolutely flipped his shit and ordered the dude killed
>>65493090>Veitnam War >FUCK YOU IMPERIALIST PIG AMERICA YOU HAVE NOTHING BUT PUPPET STA->creates 3 different puppet states Commies have nothing but projection don't they?
>>65493225If it makes you feel any better, many of them either committed suicide or experienced “ego deaths” when the Nixon–Mao talks happened. They wept and suffered panic attacks, feeling as though their world had come to an end. Some tried to cope by convincing themselves that this was all a brilliant ruse by Mao, but when he died and Deng Xiaoping took the helm, it was the final straw. They gave up on Russia, they gave up on China and sought out even more obscure thinkers about colonial and oppressed thought.
>>65493182>>65493180>the most bizarre part of all thisThat would be Sihanouk and Sung becoming personal friends resulting in a Royal Government in exile being hosted in Pyongyang and the DPRK helping restore a Monarchy, this lead to the surreal spectacle of a King surrounded by heavily armed Nork Bodyguards.
>>65493234Norman Finkelstein(who was a western Maoist at the time) describing the scene>Those not wondering what a Maoist is wonder how I could have been one. It’s a historical moment that has vanished without a trace.>In the early 1970s, when I came of age politically, the U.S. government was raining death on Vietnam abroad and hunting down Black militants at home. The system manifestly required more than a little tinkering to be set right. Anyhow, I had committed myself not just to a reformed world but a world turned upside down. For all its Marxist pretences, Russia seemed to resemble the United States. The grey-on-grey of Soviet-style socialism didn’t exactly fire the imagination. On the other hand, China appeared on the brink of ushering in a new world. Those coming back from Maoist China echoed the writer Lincoln Steffens on his return from Lenin’s Russia: “I have seen the future, and it works.” From Chairman Mao down to the ordinary worker and peasant, everyone seemed to be practicing a simple, austere lifestyle, contemptuous of bourgeois amenities and devoted to a larger collective purpose. I still remember the sense of moral inferiority on my first sighting of a real-life exemplar of this “new socialist man” from China (in fact, a woman, Carmelita Hinton, daughter of famed Maoist author William Hinton) at a left-wing conference in New York. Shamed by my bourgeois baggage, I decided against introducing myself to her.
>>65493244>Maoism seemed irrefutable proof of an alternative to the rat-race existence. To cynics who maintained that creating a society based on non-acquisitive values was utopian, I replied: Look at China! It was even said that petty theft had disappeared. Bicycles weren’t chained up, lost items were returned. While I was taking a nap late one winter’s night in my college student centre, someone stole my brand new work shoes from, literally, right under my feet. Furious at the theft and having had to walk home barefoot in the slush, the next day in my Chinese foreign policy class I indignantly declared, “This wouldn’t have happened in China!” Many of my classmates no doubt silently thought that it served this self-righteous ass**** right.>The precepts of Chinese Communism mirrored my own of a decent society. Prime Minister Chou En-Lai always had pinned to his lapel the button, “Serve the people.” Praising the wisdom and dignity of ordinary workers, a Mao quotation declared that the “workers and peasants were the cleanest people, and even though their hands were soiled and their feet smeared with cow-dung, they were really cleaner than the bourgeois and petty-bourgeois intellectuals.” A sports meet in China would open and close with the chant, “Friendship first, competition second.” The eyes of a sceptical female co-worker of mine lit up when I quoted Mao’s aphorism, “Women hold up half the sky.” In one parable I emotionally recited, Mao wrote, “Death can be weightier than Mount Tai or lighter than a feather. To die for the people is weightier than Mount Tai, but to die for the fascists and oppressors is lighter than a feather.”
>>65493244>Norman FinkelsteinThis is not a time for jokes, anon.
>>65493248>What clinched my disenchantment was the increasing sterility of Bettelheim’s, and my own, “problematic.” After Mao’s death, his heirs, the “Gang of Four,” were in short order dethroned, and his legacy was dismantled. The theory of socialist transition, on which I intended to write my doctoral dissertation, seemed more than ever divorced from reality. In addition, the rapid collapse of Maoism forced me to rethink many of my beliefs. There must have been a lot more rot at the core of the Chinese Revolution than I was led—and allowed myself to be led, and led others—to believe. What hurt most for someone who thought he knew so much was how foolish he had been. I remember one non-believer telling this true believer that, before I ever got to China, there would be a McDonald’s at the Great Wall. I sneeringly dismissed his “petty-bourgeois” cynicism. (He in turn recoiled at being labelled merely a “petty” and not a full-fledged bourgeois.) Well, a McDonald’s did open for business at the Great Wall while I lost all interest in making pilgrimage to China. In fact, from the day the Gang of Four was overthrown to this day I’ve not opened a single book or read through to the end a single news article on China. The wound runs deep, the pain lingers. For the first three weeks after the coup I could barely make it out of bed. I was later told that Bettelheim had to be hospitalized. Whether, in my case, this was due more to disappointment or embarrassment, I cannot say. In any event, I learned an important, albeit excruciating, lesson: de omnibus dubitandum (Marx’s credo).This man is a respected academic who was bedridden for three weeks due to a political struggle that occurred in China and now refuses to read anything related to China, because the CCP betrayed him
>>65493215I thought it was a small group of three or so "journalists" (you can't hate them enough) that went over, one got killed for no reason, and even that wasn't enough to get the remainder to rethink their political allegiance in any meaningful way going by what I've read. I should know better than to be surprised at these things at my age, but it's still wild to read about "intellectuals" supporting the regime who's unofficial mantra towards their people was "to keep you is no benefit; to destroy you is no loss." It reads like a caricature and makes scifi dystopia shit like "a brief life burns brightly" sound optimistic.
>>65493254Give it a read, this dude is absolutely evil.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Finkelstein
>>65493236That would only be remotely weird to someone who abjectly refused to interpret it in the most obvious way possible: One monarchy restoring another.
>>65493322>norks are a monarchy HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>65493332Russia is a democracy with free and open elections too!
>>65493334>free and open Open to (((who)))? To Russians? Yes.
>>65493322Correct, however no one had figured that out at that point.>>65493332What exactly do you call four generations of absolute rule by a Divine Bloodline, one that legally enshrines prior members of that bloodline as Eternal Rulers in their Constitution??
Nice try, OP. Almost tricked me into reading a literally Marxist rag.
>>65493180Do they really just decide who's the best by how many of their own countrymen they kill?
>>65493338And that's why they all vote for whoever controls the vote counting. Amirite comrade?
>>65493126It's absurdLeftists in Sweden were celebrating the fall of Phnom Penh and even denied the Cambodian Genocide for years after much of the world had already accepted it as fact.>>65493225It makes me very sad that practically all of Cambodia's artists were killed off by the Khmer Rouge, they were among the best in the world, in my opinion.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffQ1tWq1Pe0
>>65493106>The Chinese took offense to this
>>65493281>Finkelstein rose to prominence in 2000 after publishing The Holocaust Industry, a book in which he writes that the memory of the Holocaust is exploited as an ideological weapon to provide Israel a degree of immunity from criticism.[3] He is a critic of Israeli policy and its governing class. The Israeli government barred him from entry to the country for ten years in 2008.[4] Finkelstein has called Israel the "Jewish supremacist state", and views it as committing the crime of apartheid against the Palestinian people.[5] Through personal accounts in one of his books, he compares the plight of the Palestinians living under Israeli occupation with the horrors of the Nazis.[6] Finkelstein's most recent book on Palestine and Israel, published in 2018, is Gaza: An Inquest into Its Martyrdom.Doesn't sound that bad to me tbdesu
>>65493552
>>65493255I really like this particular documentary on Maoist China, lots of primary sources.Great series, too, the episodes on the Soviet revolution and decolonialisation in Africa embody the same ideas, Africa Addio (watch it in Italian, the U.S. version is sensationalized) is also similar.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsCl4ivabS4
>Pol "Cradle to Grave in 60 Seconds" Pot>Pol "Ideal Society? Baby Bashed Against Tree" Pot>Pol "Planned Parenthood" Pot>Pol "Suck the Binkey, Die to Chinky" Pot>Pol "Tomb of the Unknown Toddler" Pot>Pol "Damn the Pram" Pot>Pol "Late-Term Arbor-tion" Pot>Pol "Wear Glasses; Your Ass is Grasses" Pot>Pol "19 is Too Old" Pot>Pol "Angkor Wat's Full of Dead Tots" Pot>Pol "Bleed Child O' Mine" Pot
>>65493595Pol "If her age is on the clock, she's ready for the rock" Pot
>>65493600>Pol "Old Enough to Cry, Old Enough to Die" Pot
>>65493595>Tomb of the Unknown Toddler
>>65493373I like reading commie/anarcho zines, because their arguments are so damn easy to pick apart.
>>65493090They got Pol Pot out. Good enough. Someone had to.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4reO3LabZY
>>65493480Oh so they've learned what the Democrats did in 2020? Good on them. Odd how there aren't any Jan 6th's in Russia though, almost as if the people know the elections are valid.
>>65493557>reading comprehension I'll break it down.>oy vey the Jews use the 6 million!>proceeds to use the 6 million for the Palestinians If I have to go further to explain how what the Third Reich did vs the Israelis did is completely different then there is no hope for you.
>>65493664or the Russians don't have free speech
Man, I though USSR tankies were bad, Maoists are just a whole different breed though.
>>65493090>overthrowing Pol Pot is like the US in VietnamIt was Vietnams WW2, completely justified to stop a genocide while the US funded it, it was based as fuck they had the balls to do stop them straight after 30 years of war.
>>65493140The right wing Cambodian anti-communist government led by Lon Nol, which was overthrown by the Khmer Rouge in 1975, was also anti-Vietnamese.Lon Nol massacred nearly 70,000 Vietnamese in Cambodia from 1970-1975, both communist Vietnamese and anti-Communist Vietnamese.Lon Nol celebrated his coup taking over Cambodia in 1970 by tossing 3,000 Vietnamese corpses into the Mekong river which floated down to the Mekong delta.Both the South Vietnamese government and North Vietnamese government angrily condemned Lon Nol.Cambodian-Vietnam rivalry has nothing to do communism, its ethnic.Vietnam historically invaded and annexed Champa from Chams, Central Highlands from Montagnards and Kampuchea Krom from Khmer Krom, who were Cambodians.Cambodia wanted Mekong Delta and Saigon, which were Kampuchea Krom, back from Vietnam.FULRO was made out of Cham, Khmer Krom and Montagnard fighters who fought both south Vietnam and North Vietnam for independence.Lon Nol supported FULRO, and Lon Nol planned to eradicate both South Vietnam and North Vietnam. South Vietnamese ARVN also killed and raped Cambodians which resulted in Lon Nol ordering massacres against ethnic Kinh Vietnamese all over Cambodia.>>65493854Vietnam literally installed former Khmer Rouge members who defected to Vietnam only because Pol Pot was going to purge them. Hun Sen defected to Vietnam in 1977 and Heng Samrin defected to Vietnam in 1978.Both of them were Khmer Rouge who participated in Khmer Rouge massacres from 1975-1977 and only defected to Vietnam because Pol Pot was going to turn on them and kill them next.Vietnam installed these two ex-Khmer Rouge as the Cambodian government, which is why right wing Cambodian anti-communists formerly loyal to Lon Nol continued to fight against the Vietnamese occupation.Lon Nol loyalists broke out of Khmer Rouge prison camps to fight against Vietnamese since the Vietnamese were ethnic enemies and installing former Khmer Rouge officials to rule Cambodia.
>>65493921>By 1957, approximately 77% of senior officials in the West German Justice Ministry were former Nazi Party members.>During the 1950s, over 70% of top judges in West Germany possessed documented connections to the Nazi regime.Happens all the time anon, you can't train a new sectary of agriculture over night and there are a limited number of people with valid skills.
>>65493187>>65493113>>65493921Cambodian government are Vietnamese puppets, but the people hate Vietnamese so much that the Vietnamese puppet government has to go against Vietnam in ASEAN over the South China SEA.Because Vietnam is occupying Cambodoan land (Kampuchea Krom aka Mekong delta and Saigon). Khmer Krom live there.Cambodian men literally pimp Vietnamese girls to white paedophiles. Vietnamese are in the bottom rung of Cambodian society and are the ones being fucked by expats. Vietnamese girls and women fill Cambodian brothels.https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/01/05/cambodia-wants-china-as-its-neighborhood-bully/http://www.nypress.com/inside-k11-phnom-penhs-notorious-child-brothel/Inside k11, Phnom Penh's notorious child brothel.None - Do not DeleteNovember 18, 2003Ushered into a sort of makeshift living room, I am told that in the daytime the neighborhood is a typical Cambodian slum, full of street vendors and the thick, mysterious flow of motorbikes. On the walls are several signs in Vietnamese, local beer ads and Backstreet Boys posters. I sit on a crusty sofa, across from the Vietnamese pimp speaking broken Cambodian to Mr. Yo.Four young Vietnamese girls enter the room. The pajama-clad quartet storms in like the kids they are, all giggles and restless energy amidst the boredom of the metal and concrete room. The girls, who look about 10 to 12 years old, climb over the pimp like he's their father, tweaking his ears and messing his hair. One sits down next to me. There is no sign of fear or physical abuse. I try to get my head around the family atmosphere and keep the noticeably sexualized youngsters on the other side of the room.Mr. Yo expects me to indulge. Apparently, I hadn't made myself clear."You don't think?this is what I wanted to do? Do you do this sort of thing?""Yes.""How?""Because they are Vietnamese it doesn't matter," the Cambodian Yo states simply. "We wouldn't let our girls do this."
>>65493090It goes beyond inter-communist beef, Cambodia has always had tremendous hatred for both their neighbors (Thailand & Vietnam) for invading & destroying their ancient Khmer Empire and hegemonizing them between the 1500s-1700s. It doesn't matter if Vietnam "saved" them from Pol Pot, they're Vietnamese and that's enough for Cambos to hate them.Besides Cambodians- especially the Monarchists- blame the Vietnamese for empowering & helping the Khmer Rouge to power to begin with. The Khmer Rouge after all were part of the Vietnamese dominated Indochinese Communist Party, which was the precursor of the CPV
>>65494066>Besides Cambodians- especially the Monarchists- blame the Vietnamese for empowering & helping the Khmer Rouge to power to begin with.And there's the onion.
>>65493090Vietnam getting dragged into decade-long quagmire entirely of its own making against starving rice farmers and losing miserably will never not be funny, even if it was against the literal Khmer Rouge.>>65493140>It’s a tankie myth that the US was directly funding and training the Khmer Rouge in Thailand.>Communists are vile lying sacks of shitMANY SUCH CASES!
>>65494132>even if it was against the literal Khmer Rouge.TBF the Khmer Rouge were only the third-most important rebel group, the ex-military dictatorship and the royalists were the most active insurgents.
>>65494066In the book First They Killed My Father, the author who lived through the Khmer Rouge era and was a child soldier herself, describes how they were inundated with propaganda claiming they would undoubtedly win because they were racially purer. This narrative portrayed their eventual triumph over the racially impure mongrel Vietnamese youns(dogs).>>65494087Some Vietnamese monarchists were willing to fight alongside the Khmer Rouge, so that's another layer.
Given how old this war is, and how the war ended just as the Cold War as a whole ended in 1991 through the Paris Peace Accords (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Paris_Peace_Agreements; linked this one because Paris hosted many peace negotiations before this), how come we never got a documentary in the 2000s at the latest about the war? I mean, was there plenty both Vietnam and Cambodia are hiding about that war that veterans couldn't speak about it?
>>65494132>Vietnam invades the country, defeats them militarily, and installs their own puppet government>losing miserably???
>>65494146Vietnam actively doesn’t want to talk about it. The government can’t celebrate it as a glorious victory, it’s seen as a military embarrassment. The soldiers are viewed by many young Vietnamese as war criminals, rapists and imperialists.>Victory over the US military is remembered each year in Vietnam as a triumph over foreign aggression in a war of national liberation.>Less celebrated is Vietnam’s quiet retreat from its own deeply unpopular foreign war that ended 25 years ago this month. A war where Vietnamese troops, sent as saviours but soon seen as invaders, paid a steep price in lives and limbs during a gruelling decade-long guerilla conflict.>On the 25th anniversary of their withdrawal from Cambodia, Vietnamese veterans are still haunted by their memories of war with Pol Pot’s army.>Some wonder why Cambodians are not more grateful to the troops who freed them from the brutal Khmer Rouge regime.>Though the Vietnamese government has never officially confirmed casualty numbers, some 30,000 Vietnamese troops were believed to have been killed before the final withdrawal in September 1989.>Unlike Vietnam’s wars against the French and Americans, the intervention in Cambodia was “downplayed” to the Vietnamese public, Mr Thayer said. When soldiers returned from Cambodia without the fanfare of previous wars, veterans felt that they had been “forgotten”.>Gratitude was also not forthcoming from Cambodia, where hostility towards the Vietnamese remains ubiquitous. It is an enmity born of conflicts between ancient emperors and kings, of lost territory and a much smaller Cambodia faring poorly through history to a far more populous Vietnam.>Every few months, a group of veterans from the war in Cambodia meet in Ho Chi Minh City. On a recent Sunday morning, their get-together started early with short welcome speeches followed by swift toasts of strong rice wine.
>>65494168nta but they still retreated in 1989, the occupation was too financially costly for the fragile Vietnamese economy.
>>65493215You're thinking of Malcolm Caldwell, who got shot in his hotel room just prior to the start of the Vietnamese invasion. To this day, no one is entirely sure if he was ACK'd by the regime for running his mouth or was killed by anti-Khmer Rouge dissidents.Also fun fact, he directly inspired one of the antagonists of Far Cry 4, Noore Najjar.>>65494139Fair point.>>65494168>???>fighting a decade long insurgency that bleeds your country dry (Vietnam completely missed out on the Asian economic boom of the 80s, largely as a result of sanctions imposed on it because of the war in Cambodia) and ends with you withdrawing in disgrace and your puppet government capitulating almost immediately and the Cambodian monarch you started this entire shitshow to overthrow back on the throne within a few years isn't losingNGMI>>65494146Couple of factors1. The entire Vietnamese-Cambodian War was an absolute shitshow where quite literally everyone even superficially involved came out of it looking bad.2. The war is seen as a massive embarrassment in Vietnam because they lost and it tempered their euphoria at beating Japan, France, the United States, and China back-to-back. The Cambodians would prefer to forget the Khmer Rouge-era altogether.3. By the 2000s, United States was too busy repeating the Vietnam experience in the desert to care. US-Vietnamese relations normalized in 1995 and this was conveniently around the same time that stuff like the POW/MIA issue and "le heckin' vets got spat on by hippies" began to be politically swept under the rug.
Like clockwork, every Vietnam thread summons him.
>>65493113>The government also avoided calling it a war, instead describing it as an “internationalist mission,”oh how the turn tables. also modern rhetoric is so incredibly indirect and gay because of constant moral high grounding
>>65493106The Vietnamese ran with that for good pr but they didn’t want a dumbass like pol pot around and apparently weren’t concerned about the genocide from what I’ve heard
>>65493187Kys, chud.>>65493281Guy's completely nuts. A literal contrarian schizo.
>>65494257The regular Vietnamese soldiers seem to be horrified by what they saw. entire villages filled with dead, starving people. These weren’t corn-fed American good ol’ boys who had never seen real deprivation, they were Vietnamese farmers who had grown up knowing poverty, hardship and hunger firsthand. And even they were fucking horrified by what the Khmer Rouge had done in Cambodia.>Le Thanh Hieu's unit pursued the retreating Khmer Rouge to the border with Thailand. He remembers seeing Cambodian villagers lying on the sides of roads dying of starvation and illness.>"They were dying everywhere. They were dying of hunger," said the 54-year-old. "We didn't have rice to feed the starving. We only had army rations to feed ourselves in battle.">Yet, he said, "faced with this situation the soldiers could not avoid saving lives" and they used their rations to make a thin rice soup for the starving.>"I don't want to have this experience to tell you about," Mr Hieu said.>Vietnam does not want to entirely forget about the war in Cambodia, said Mr Nhan. It only wants to remember an official version: a victorious, lightning attack that toppled Pol Pot.>Best forgotten, Mr Nhan said, are the 10 years of punishing hit-and-run fighting and the largely-forgotten veterans still scarred from their experiences.>"For me, the truth needs to be said," he said.>"Sometimes I think the dead are lucky. They rest in peace. We have to struggle every day. Our lives continue."
>>65494132Not just commies. See Russia's "everybody shooting at me is ISIS" story in Syria.
>>65494066> Vietnamese for empowering & helping the Khmer Rouge to power to begin withFrom an outside perspective, isn't this kinda worse on the Cambodian part? An ally helped you come to power and then you backstab them after it's done
>>65494132Didn't Vietnam win the war against the Khmer Rouge because they dismantled the government?The only thing they failed to do was control the country afterwards as seen by the amount of insurgency and rebels groups
>>65495703>>65495708>>65494257Vietnam ultimately felt had to invade Cambodia because even beyond the Khmer Rouge’s crimes against humanity, Pol Pot’s regime repeatedly raided Vietnam while it was trying to rebuild after the War. Vietnam initially sought diplomatic solutions but the Cambodian leadership was convinced of its own racial and ideological superiority, viewing Vietnamese people as racially impure and themselves as the “true” communists. They were, essentially, high on their own supply.
>>65493234I think that was more after Mao died and the Gang of Four got purged. It's the death of the God that does it in. They could spin the Nixon-Mao talks as Nixon giving in or Mao playing 5D chess. Also some of them became Hoxhaists because Enver Hoxha was the last true hardliner but that wasn't as much of a thing because it's Albania.>>65493281He's not that evil. He turned into a big Rosa Luxembourg fag. His parents were Stalinists in a funny/weird way even though they weren't communists who read any Karl Marx. They were Holocaust survivors (Auschwitz and Majdanek respectively) who met in a DP camp but you couldn't say a bad word about Stalin in their house. It's like there's the Red Army and then there's some beefy German concentration camp overseer names Gertrude who crushes Jewish women's throats in with her boot every day for fun.
>>65493595>Late-Term Arbor-tion
>>65495703>From an outside perspective, isn't this kinda worse on the Cambodian part? An ally helped you come to power and then you backstab them after it's doneI mean, pretty much all of Indochina was a god-awful blood-soaked mess for like 50+ years starting with dubya dubya two but even if you ignore the crimes against humanity happening next door and the practical implications of this (refugees, regional economy in the shitter, foreign interference, etc.) the Cambodians weren't exactly gud bois who dindu nuffin. One of the things that pushed Vietnam from slap-fighting to war was when Khmer Rouge forces crossed into Vietnam, brutally murdered several thousand civilians and then scampered back across the border while laying mines.I've read a fair bit about the nastier parts of the 20th century and as far as I'm concerned the Khmer Rouge make the Gestapo and NKVD look like amateur hour. Like, yeah a lot of people were executed and abused and etc. under the Nazis and Soviets but at the end of the day a massive proportion of their kill count was from secondary causes like disease and starvation whereas in Cambodia it was just straight-up mass murder on an unprecedented scale. Or, to put it another way: if the Germans had been as enthusiastic as the Khmer Rouge, the Jewish Question in Germany would have been answered somewhere around 1935.
>>65495766Some of the worst violence in Cambodia was also (apparently) when Pol Pot's faction purged a faction that was more traditionally "Marxist-Leninist," closer to the Vietnamese and was located in the east near the border. Pol Pot's base of support was in the southwest and was more ethno-nationalistic.The Khmer Rouge was actually a pretty disorganized thing when it took power. It was like several peasant armies that converged on the capital and there were different factions. Also I think another reason for the violence was basically just hills-have-eyes stuff. There's something about pure peasant rebellions like that which get really violent. There's just a combination of hatred of people not like them ("hey four eyes!"), familiarity with sharp instruments, and skinning animals. It's a pattern that crops up again and again when you read about peasant revolts in other parts of the world going back to the Middle Ages. Fancy lads impaled on pikes. Also there was the Boxers in China.
>>65493090Cambodia is now controlled by China LMFAO Fuck ho Chi minh
>>65493281>dude is absolutely evilWith the last name of Finkelstein is anyone surprised?
>>65495833>evilI'd say a person who actively wishes death on his own people while at the same time whining about and underplaying the very genocide his fucking parents lived through, constantly subverting the civilization that allows his kike ass to exist and carrying water for people who would kill him in a second if they could.
>>65496437This goes beyond kike level evil, kikes for all their faults will watch out and protect their own, but this motherfucker just wants to tear down everything.
>>65493281>DePaul's political science committee investigated Dershowitz's accusations against Finkelstein and concluded that they were unsubstantiated. The department subsequently invited John Mearsheimer and Ian Lustick, two previously uninvolved academics with expertise on the Israel–Palestinian conflict, to evaluate the academic merit of Finkelstein's work; they came to the same conclusion>John Mearsheimer
>>65494179>>65494225What a pity.
>>65493281What a completely natural post about someone who has markedly pushed to unseat Israeli influence and it's usage of the Holocaust to genocide. Surely he's evil
Its funny how much communism failed to erase national and ethnic rivalries, all these communist countries were supposed to be part of united global proletariat, but instead we saw continuation of old conflicts under different red flags.
>>65498449Go back to /leftypol/ or Hasan's discord and have them send someone with an IQ greater than room temperature; the point he was making is clearly beyond you.
>>65493106> I hate commies Your fat faggot POTUS seems to love the Chinese, Norks and Russians
>>65494051Hello, Cambodian nationalist.
>>65494132>Vietnam getting dragged into decade-long quagmire entirely of its own making against starving rice farmers and losing miserably will never not be funny, even if it was against the literal Khmer Rouge.If the Vietnamese lost, how come the Khmer Rouge doesn't exist anymore? Were they all abducted by aliens and taken to Alpha Centauri?
>>65498454Communism basically requires human nature to stop existing to work
>>65498586Funny, 15 minutes and I'm yet to get a reply. The Cambodian retard is either furiously googling an answer right now or had a BSOD episode and died.
>>65498449just because someone rightfully points out some negative things about Israel doesn't make them your ally
>>65498566>Your fat faggot POTUS seems to love the ChineseIs that why he keeps slapping the Chinese with tariffs and sanction? Out of love?
>>65493090>>65493113>>65493182>>65493185Vietnam are unironically imperialist colonists but against the Montagnard.FULRO were the only good guys in all of Indochina. RIP.
>>65493090Vietnams were very popular in the 1970s. Vietnam had its own Vietnam in Cambodia, China decided to have its own Vietnam in Vietnam, the Soviets decided to start a Vietnam in Afghanistan and Libya decided to have a Vietnam in Chad.
>>65498454>>65498599Not a commie, but these states were Marxist-Leninist states not orthodox Marxist. Marxist-Leninists aren't opposed to nation-states. they believe in the idea that there are simply “non-historic” peoples who are irrelevant to history, while “historic peoples" are those capable of achieving communism. Therefore their history, including their imperial and feudal history matters.
>>65499033That’s why Russia could openly lord it over the rest of the Eastern Bloc in the Soviet hierarchy, Russians were cast as the historical people, the people who mattered, the people who drove history. The others weren’t necessarily “subhuman” in strict ML logic, but they were simply expected to be misguided younger brothers and follow the elder brother’s lead.
>>65494308>schizoHigh genetic prevalence among the steins, bergs and witz’s. >>65493281>EvilThat too
>>65498449>when you subvert the wrong nationGuys an autoimmune system disease lol
>>65498454You’re taking the espousers of that words-words-words at face value. Whatever they say, It’s a complete lie start to end.
>>65498642>ban me thuot
>>65499373Wait is this gif real?
>>65499373WTF how'd they teach the cat to do that?
>>65498642>FULRO were the only good guys in all of Indochina.this guy knows what's up
>>65499408>>65498642I first learned about the Montagnards from some war movie I saw on YouTube. They had Native Americans play the Montagnards and just act like wise Indians. It was fucking hilarious.
>>65499435>They had Native Americans play the MontagnardsI mean that's accurate to how we viewed it from the '50s on,https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Ethnography_of_Vietnam_s_Central_Hig/2_zKFyHlBk0C?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=RA2-PA189&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22Indian%20problem%22
>>65499442Yeah, I can definitely see that interpretation, free tribal people living off the land against arrogant civilization. But getting actual natives to play them is pretty funny.
>>65493244>(in fact, a woman, Carmelita Hinton, daughter of famed Maoist author William Hinton) at a left-wing conference in New York. Shamed by my bourgeois baggage, I decided against introducing myself to her.>” The eyes of a sceptical female co-worker of mine lit up when I quoted Mao’s aphorism, “Women hold up half the sky.”
>>65493770What's the source anon?
>>65493244/pol/ could not come up with a more ridiculous fanfiction of western wannabe commies than this. If I had lived in another time where I could not google your quotes I simply would not have believed it.
OT but The Killing Fields might be the most unpleasantly intense movie I've ever seen. Come and See feels like a surreal nightmare, nothing else as far as war movies get that bad. Amazing 10/10 movie. But the 2nd half focusing on Dith Pran dealing with the Khmer Rouge is terrifying and intense the entire time and extremely depressing. The part where he wakes up in the river full of rotting corpses almost made me vomit. I know Imagine is the worst song to play given the lyrics but I almost give it a pass because the movie has earned the right to play a sappy song at the end. What's really telling to me is the way the Khmer Rouge had SOME elements in government for quite some time, it makes it look like they did the killings over a number of years. Motherfucking Pol Pot killed 25% of his country in 4 years as inefficiently as possible. That's impressive in a way.
Not /k/ at this point, but is there a source that's consulted in this thread when it comes to the ethnic and irrendentist tensions that defined the second half of 20th-century Cambodia? I don't want Wikipedia nor Encyclopedia Britannica to be the only sources to go to about mid-1970s to early-1990s Cambodia.
>>65493281The gooning is fascism guy!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CITvCkdE9wc
>>65498449People raging about the kike who is trying to subvert Western civilization because he doesn't think the Holocaust is a unique event and that it has been exploited by American and Israeli Jewish leaders to advance a foreign policy agenda is a new one.>>65500579I think it was lower than that. Maybe 10% at the low end. That is still a lot but there's a real historical debate about it because it was Cambodia and hard to research. Around half that number were actually physically killed while the other half died from starvation/disease/overwork. A thing about starvation btw is that most deaths actually come from disease because of a weakened immune system from the starvation. Also the killings often happened in a chaotic way, like people in a town or city would be moved to the countryside and be okay in one area but similar people moved into another rural area would be butchered by the locals or they couldn't survive and they starved to death.
>>65501110Fair enough, I appreciate the breakdown of deaths. I suppose then it gets into the deliberate vs 'result of their policies' issue that I fully admit I am not the most consistent with myself. Easy to blame Stalin for every death including starvation but then it is hypocritical of me to say deaths during the great depression dont count against FDR/Capitalism for example. Even if only 10% of them are deliberate direct killings, that is pretty insane. >>65493532https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxD7fnNRppg here's a documentary about the rock scene and what happened to it. That some of these bands were able to have all members escape or lay low and survive, especially since these were the cosmopolitan educated class individuals, is kind of amazing. Really good documentary IMO, albeit less theatrical and more like a solid PBS special your history teacher would show you.
>>65494132>losingVietnam won anon.
That's bcz of Frantz Fanon. The Khmer Rouge tried to install their vision of a Utopia behind the idea of only through murderous violence can third world citizens achieve their ends. At the same time, French thinkers were changing philosophy towards hiding behind language models in thinking and speech to hide their own atrocities of the past. However, Pol Pot, unlike Ho Chi Minh, didn't care for symbolism (only symbols he left behind culturally were bleached bones). But yeah, ironically, a regime more despot and twisted than the other was coming in to intervene. That's the rabid nature of Communism in a nut-shell, ok, it's gonna have problems.
>>65499545ATOMIKSAICO, you can find him on twitter
>>65496576Have you been paying attention? They're all like that!
>>65494308No way fugs, go seethe somewhere
>>65494051Hello, wumao faggot
>>65498920>>65493090>Vietnamese own VietnamThey literally won lmao
>>65501412I for one am a fan of his work
>>65501412HOLY FUCK WHAT A CHAD (he posted this on the 11th)
>>65495926>There's something about pure peasant rebellions like that which get really violentWell yes, they're untermensch for a reason
>>65494168>X invades the country, defeats them militarily, and installs their own puppet government>fights guerilla insurgency for a decade, spends a lot of money, the heart of the people whose land you now occupy does not belong to you>leave, country is back to where it was before your expedition in less than half a decadeI’m American. This is a pattern I have great practice recognizing.
>>65500579Same but with the book the main actor wrote. Guy was a main character. But his life was about as tragic as you could possibly write. RIP Dr Haing Ngor.
>>65495926>Some of the worst violence in Cambodia was also (apparently) when Pol Pot's faction purged a faction that was more traditionally "Marxist-Leninist,"From what I understand from the single biography I’ve read, all the prisoners at the famous S-21 prison in the capitol were internal members of the Khmer Rouge, none of the new people were important enough to go there. Anyone important enough to be IN or near the capitol after the red Army evacuated it at all would have to have been Red or old people to begin. Hard to automatically say all 18,133 out 18,145 who were killed there deserved it but I’d like to hope it was their Justice for being a part of an apparatus so evil.
>>65498586Because the gooks believe(d) in communism and their retard cousin who also believed in communism was not being their friend rather it was attacking them and also apparently genociding various people which makes their glorious revolution look bad. And then they had to invade which makes them look like imperialists. It’s family matters you sub 90iq mutant. At the end, the fucking Cambodian Monarchy was restored. Total strategic kerfuffle. Go play Call of Duty it’s about your level of understanding. Historical geopolitics isn’t for you.
>>65498601It's a dedicated Cambodian autist whose mission is to reply to Vietnam threads to make Vietnam seem worse than Cambodia. I can't fathom what kind of SEA psychosis causes them to do this for years on a Libyan leatherworking forum.
>>65499033the concept of 'non historic peoples' comes from Engels. he termed it 'völkerabfälle'. so the justifications for ethnic cleansing have been in the doctrine from the start. and have seen wide use.
>>65510917Cum
>>65498586Their King made friends with Sung and Sung leveraged his popularity in the Non Aligned movement as well as the Kings popularity with the (surviving) rural people to reinstall him. The Communist Bloc lined up with it to keep Sung, the Non aligned movement and everyone who hated Pol Pot (everyone at that point) happy. So you saw a Monarch reinstalled as ruler with Nork bodyguards with the blessing of the Communist world, the free world and the middle powers, even Albania, Cuba and Uganda supported it. The fucking Derg got on board and probably South Yemen. Pol Pot was absolute shit, the only thing worse are apologists for him.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TljnADEbzI
>>65493563Best documentary on the CCP was deleted off youtube. Nearly four hours long made by BBC4
>>65515194Can it be found in The Pirate Bay?
>>65515317Something more on-topic: prior to the Vietnamese invasion, did the Khmer Rouge forces get tanks?
