Why do Euros like Delta Wing+Canards so much?You dont see the Americans, Russians and the Chinese doing this.
>>65494697Canards are gay and Europe is big into homosexuality.
https://desuarchive.org/k/search/image/MojNOWSMng8h2QKShrHXXA/What does he mean by this
>>65494697F-47 and J-20 come to mind
>Why do Euros like Delta Wing+Canards so much?Because it's a good idea>You dont see the Americans, Russians and the Chinese doing this.- americans are retarded- russians wanted to do this for nextgen before ussr collapsed, look up mig-1.44- chinks did j-10
>>65494697Isn't it designed for maneuverability? Meanwhile, burgers like their stealth so less surfaces for radar to bounce off of means canards probably no good. Not sure what's going on with the f47 though assuming the rendering is actually how the design is suppose to be.
>>65495544F-47 looks like it will probably have a pretty weird layout, almost like something you’d expect in an ace combat game. Tailless aircraft have pretty significant stability issues in supersonic flight, it’s one of the major obstacles to building them. I’ve heard rumors that I can’t substantiate will any public information that one of the reasons Lockheed lost were persistent stability issues on their demonstrator. Boeing may have gotten around this issue with a similar dihedral/anhedral setup for the wing as was done on Bird of Prey, which at least at subsonic speeds was very stable. However too much stability in a fighter can be a bad thing, and it may need the canards to bring it back to an acceptable level of maneuverability. Also, for what it’s worth, it is possible that when not maneuvering the canards could help stealth and reduce the number of radar spikes in the design. Northrop engineers claim their “christmas tree” was the stealthiest fighter they could come up with, and the forward canards maintaining edge alignment with the wings was a big part of that. Not having them would have actually increased the number of radar spikes.
>>65494697They fell for the maneuverability meme. Americans focused on climb rate and energy retention.
>>65494697It seemed like a good idea at the time. Before stealth killed aerodynamics, delta canards was the most manoeuvrable thing you could reasonably build and the reason why it came about at that time in particular is because you require fly by wire for delta wings to work and that was exactly what fly by wire was being introduced. The Russians experimented with the only even more manoeuvrable thing you can do, which was the reverse wing design and came to the conclusion it's not worth it.The US uses a lesser version of this in the F16 where there is a little delta-like shape on the front before it branches out into normal wings that keep it stable enough for conventional hydraulic steering.Anyway, then stealth happened and the concept was shitcanned before eventually the Russians made a stealth jet with something resembling a delta wing with the Su57, except it has those flaps at the root of the wings instead of canards and it's not exactly a delta wing design, more like idk, really flat lifting body with melded wings kind of thing.Finally we have that 3 engine Chinese tailess design that's probably the ultimate evolution of the delta wing design direction.
>>65494751fpbp
>>65495511>stealth is a meme, maneuverability is king>in 2026euros really are just retards with a superiority complex lmfao
>>65494751>Canards are gayDoesn't the new F-47 have canards?
>>65494697Because it must have a homosexual mustache. Like all Europeans.
>>65496098>Tfw I just shaved down to a mustacheI promise I'm not guy guys, my boyfriend can vouch for me
Europeans need to just look "cool" and not do anything with it so who cares really
>>65496072>2025 AmericaIt is extremely gay, obviously
>>65495874For some odd reason, the front reminded me a bit of the hornet from WC1
>>65496063>everyone and their mothers are racing to manufacture more and more powerfull aesa radars >he thinks stealth will be a gamechanger in the future you can literally see it happening in front your eyesaircrafts are becoming more and more steamlined to combat aesa's computational advantages but sadly fluid dynamics have a ceiling that cpu's dont only in 2025 amd finally made a MIL STD epyc cpu which is light years ahead of anything right now now is the supermaneuverability the solution? well in a situation of lets see 40 vs 40 where all the bvr missiles are gone and you are down to fox 2s most surely especially if you shit like python 5 that can off bore your ass from 360 no scope but thats it really in any other case its a meme
>>65497080The meta will remain stealth basically forever. Detection range will remain king and stealth is necessary to give an advantage there. Increasing radar detection range will decrease missile payload as they become larger to take shots from longer ranges. Plane maneuverability will never outpace missile maneuverability, and will be deprioritized beyond what is necessary to actually safely fly the thing.
>>65494697Yuromutts just use the delta wing + canards just to be rebellious at Americans.
>>65497112thats my point currently aesa tech literally chocked because of the fpga that is older than jesus this will change however we are talking about a 20 years give it or take generation of processing power here >Plane maneuverability will never outpace missile maneuverabilityin a fox 2 situation its very likely for this to be the case unless again you have a 360 killer missile in bvr either you sit on a comfortable range that can outpace the missile which is what normal air forces do oryou can install the brown update and go hunt the plane that fired upon you before trying to outpace the missile normal stuff
>>65497138Better detection will just drive the need for better stealth. We will see some profoundly goofy fighters as they try to manage a four spike configuration, which are the best at making sure the reflected energy never makes it back to the radar to even be detected. But the only way I see air combat having a major shakeup from the current boring state of affairs is if the next generation engines actually manage to generate enough power and cooling that integrated laser weapons actually become both a viable and meaningful aircraft weapon, and at a power level high enough to intercept incoming missiles. If that does happen things are off to the races, but if it doesn’t what we consider fighter planes start to animorph into B-21 style flying wings before everything probably transitions to ground based ballistic missiles that we pinky promise don’t have nukes, driven completely by the soulless need for more range. Though if satellite AMTI actually does work I really don’t know where anything goes from here, that may truly be the most boring timeline.
>>65497165>Better detection will just drive the need for better stealth.what did i say here?>>65497080>next generation engines actually manage to generate enough power and cooling that integrated laser weapons actually become both a viable and meaningful aircraft weaponnever gonna happen with our current pathetic pace on batteries
>>65496063Anything but admit US superiority. It's such strange behavior. We'll bring them along for the ride, they just have to ask to be on the team.
>>65497080>>well in a situation of lets see 40 vs 40 where all the bvr missiles are gone and you are down to fox 2s most surely especially if you shit like python 5 that can off bore your ass from 360 no scope >but thats it really in any other case its a memeIf you shot all of your BVRs you run away and let SAMs cover your escape to the airfield so you can rearm.Close range fights are straight up not a thing.
>>65497237There is still a limit to sensitivity on radar. Current stealth fighters really aren’t that well optimized for pure stealth, speed and maneuverability requirements have until recently kept fighters from taking that anywhere near the limit. There is still a very long way they can go in terms signature reduction without getting into things like metamaterial research, which is apparently quite promising. You are looking at advances in one field and saying they discount advances in multiple others, but we have really not seen that to be the case. As regards lasers, with the amount of money pouring in I wouldn’t rule out their presence on certain airframes in the next ten to twenty years when there are currently trailer based systems around being used. They don’t have to be even anywhere near a sure thing to massively change the calculus of air warfare.
>>65497243nobody does this for obvious impractical reasons in a mass air fight you cant rotate >>65497255>As regards lasers, with the amount of money pouring in I wouldn’t rule out their presence on certain airframes in the next ten to twenty years again its all about batteries we dont have a way to peak power burst firing form the source its self engines arent capable of such a thing on bigger planes? sure but it defeats the point
>>65497080Yeah dude, I like Ace Combat too
>>65497416let me guess american?
>>65497524Yeah, what are you, Osean?
>>65497527Considering the state of the threads lately? We've got Belkan infiltrators!
>>65496063I thought canard were to air in short take off rather than maneuverability? Also the f-47 will have them it's clear that the whole canards =/= stealth thing is not true if designed correctly. Of course all of the examples OP gave are 4th gen so stealth was not the priority >>65497080I really don't think stealth will stop being important in the future, rather coatings will pick up the slack once geometry can no longer be optimized
>>65494697The Boeing F-47 (and F/A-XX) almost certainly have canards. The pros and cons of canards, let alone different styles of canard, have too much nuance for brown seethe to comprehend.
>>65498102p.s. the purpose of canards is to add control with large delta wings (for the internal volume) + no vertical surfaces
>>65498107>p.s. the purpose of canards is to add control with large delta wings (for the internal volume) + no vertical surfacesThe primary purpose of canards is to enable low speed landing and take off without the plane landing at a 30+ degrees noseup angle. See old Draken landing videos to see what I mean. Concorde solved this lack of vision problem by going without canards and instead angling the entire cockpit downwards.
>>65494751>Canards are gayWhy?
>>65498390It also had the droop snoot.
>>65497548>>65498390All else being equal, canards are worse for take off distance because the canard is at a higher AoA than the main wing, so the canard stalls before the main wing can get to max CL.
>>65498504Yankees are mindless tribalist sheep. As soon as a Yankee McD boiengo plano have canard, then they'll suddenly sing praises about it. See: hypersanic missilles.
>>65499021Hatred of canards is a sign of mental illness.
>>65498102>taking flame for 20 years because of the canards>now the competition is using canards tookinda ironic
>>65498102>>65499317It's going to be so funny when F-47 is finally revealed and it doesn't have canards. There's only one good reason that it might have canards, and it's not the same reason as the euro triangles or J-20.
>>65499426If the F-47's renders are somewhat close to reality then those canards are just glorified flaps like on the Viggen. On the J-20 they are aligned with the wing roots to deflect away radar returns and aid during low speed maneuvers
>>65499496They’re not really aligned with anything
>>65499426>There's only one good reason that it might have canards,Which would be because it does not have vertical control surfaces.
>>65499496>then those canards are just glorified flaps like on the ViggenThe Viggen's canards were huge and had flaps.
>>65498504Because it's a French word, which makes it gay by default. This also applies to CVs. It's a real shame too because I love ducks>>65499021It'll never uncope your slope. Only the French are allowed to speak to me about aviation matters at they're the only other country with a real carrier (gay) instead of a fake carrier (gay2)
canards?
>>65499496>If the F-47's renders are somewhat close to realityI'm saying they probably aren't >glorified flaps like on the ViggenWhat? Flaps are high lift devices on the trailing edge of a wing, not at all like the Viggen's canards.>>65500447Canards are horizontal control surfaces, how would they help make up for a lack of vertical control surfaces any better than a horizontal tail?
>>65500524Viggen's canards are a static structure that contains the flaps
>>65500937You do know that the horizontal tails on most aircraft are static, right? It's a bit unusual for a jet fighter, but is actually the more conventional type of canard overall, and absolutely not equivalent to a wing flap.
>>65494697>Why do Euros like Delta Wing+Canards so much?See >>>65494769 for the true answer. Also, Europeans apparently hate pilot view angles.>You dont see the Americans, Russians and the Chinese doing thisPer other Anons, you do. It's unneccesary for going fast, or maneuvering, it's terrible for radar cross section, and yet all current European and US and Chinese prototypes have canards. Much of what canards can do is made up for with better engines and software. >>65495874>Northrop engineers claim their “christmas tree” was the stealthiest fighter they could come up with, and the forward canards maintaining edge alignment with the wings was a big part of thatVery interesting. More info on that bird?
>>65497237>never gonna happen with our current pathetic pace on batteriesMost combat lasers use supercapacitators for charge/discharge.
>>65501233The Christmas Tree was the maximum stealth concept Northrop was working on during the preliminary phase of ATF. It was an attempt to design a fighter that would only generate four radar spikes and minimize the chance that any reflected energy would make it anywhere near an enemy radar, similar to B-2 and now B-21. Unfortunately that massive degree of radar stealth came at the cost of atrocious maneuverability, so the more balanced concept that became YF-23 was selected over it as the USAF wanted a very high degree of maneuverability in their next fighter, meaning the Christmas Tree had no chance of being selected if offered. However, with extreme maneuverability being less valuable today, and the potentially real sighting of an aircraft over Area 51 that appears to share design features with both the Northrop Christmas Tree and Boeing Bird of Prey it is very possible the next generation of American fighters could have a number of stealth features never before seen on a fighter aircraft. I don’t love the website, but TWZ did reach out to one of the engineers behind the Christmas Tree and asked him a few questions. Lot of filler but wasn’t the worst read. https://www.twz.com/air/area-51-mystery-aircraft-prompts-interest-in-christmas-tree-stealth-fighter-concept
>>65501233NTA, but 4 spike is always the stealthiest, with a pure diamond being the stealthiest 4 spike design. But a pure diamond is terrible in most other regards so you end up adding more surfaces at the same angle like the B-2 or B-21, or add a couple more spikes like the X-47B. For a fighter having the same angle at the nose and the wing is a bit of a problem, so the 'christmas tree' there or the 'hammerhead' (similar but with the front diamond chopped off) becomes the best compromise solution while still keeping only 4 spikes. Now is that compromise worth it? The F-22 and YF-23 say no, but we'll see if things have changed.
>>65499426
>>65501292>>65501308>https://www.twz.com/air/area-51-mystery-aircraft-prompts-interest-in-christmas-tree-stealth-fighter-conceptVery interesting, thanks guys. I think part of this design process is in making a supercruising stealth fighter at both the geometric and material levels.
