It's kind of cool to hear about how much the IJN and IJA hated eachother. Has any military come close to how much they fucked one another over?
>>65496025IJA IJN rivalry is overrated desu. Though they did have difficulties caused by a refusal to share intel / materiel that hampered the war effort, they generally worked well together and were a mostly unified force by the time the war expanded beyond china. I think the true best example of this is the Janissaries and how they consistently fucked over the Ottoman state to keep their gibs and status.
>>65496153The IJA trying to open up an entire front really shouldn't be downplayed. Though I guess that is less interservice rivalry, more extreme military autonomy.
>>65496025One time, the entire US military started shooting each other over what side of the mason-dixon line they happened to lived on
>>65496025the Heer did their level best to fuck with the waffen SS.they blocked them from recruiting form amongst the conscripts blocked them from buying weapons and equipment from their own suppliers did it's level best to prevent officers from going over
>>65496272Himmler was Hitler's Prighozin
>>65496422Checked lol
>>65496025Well in WW2 America had to fight a bunch of random islands so the Army can feel like they were relevant.
>>65496422>"Speer, you faggot, where are my shells?!?!"
>>65496153>I think the true best example of this is the Janissaries and how they consistently fucked over the Ottoman state to keep their gibs and status.I don't know how they expected to create literal castes of slave soldiers and get away with it
>>65496267This might be a dumb question but was there any substantial difference at the start of the Civil War among the services regarding members defecting to the Confederacy as opposed to remaining loyal to the Union? Was the US Army more prone to defections than the Navy or the Marines or vice versa? I know the most prominent Southern Unionist of the entire war was a sailor, Admiral David Farragut, but he also had plenty of Army counterparts like George Thomas.
>>65497121Navy was overwhelmingly Union.
>>65496025There was the time the Austro-Habsburg army was camped out somewhere in Europe in the 1780's because there was Turks running around being niggers, Turks could be anywhere, speaking weird, dressing funny and with squinty eyes bent on genocide.At this point in time, the whole-ass army was made up of everything from drunk hillbillies from the balkans, homicidal hungarians and all the way up to inbred officer corps from various euro-shitholes.>No one understands anyone else>Late one night>Someone sees a Turk>Yells TURK!Whole place turns into a fucking riot with a couple of 100 dead and 1000's wounded. There wasn't any Turk, but if there had been they were ready to beat that cunt for all he's worth
>>65496025not technically interservice but i feel like it's appropriate>When the planning for Pearl Harbor had been in full swing, Admiral Yamaguchi had learned of a version of the attack plan that scratched his CarDiv 2 from the operation. Accounts of the ensuing incident vary, but all agree that a highly intoxicated Yamaguchi essentially assaulted Nagumo, placing him in a Judo headlock and demanding that he relent and include Soryu and Hiryu in the operation. Kusaka apparently intervened and separated the two. For his part, a similarly intoxicated Nagumo had threatened to knife Admiral Inoue at a garden party being held by no less personage than Prince Fushimi, the emperor’s uncle.
>>65497178Lmao Jesus Christ
>>65497145>American Civil War navy: "don't pick a fight against your massively more industrialized trading partner that also supplies most of your raw materials, that would be retarded">Imperial Japanese Navy: "don't pick a fight against your massively more industrialized trading partner that also supplies most of your raw materials, that would be retarded"Huh. Does being in the army make you retarded or does being in the navy make you smart?
>>65497173lol
>>65496272>blocked them from buying weapons and equipment from their own suppliersEarly war, at least. But that's what makes early and very late war WSS so kino, everyone's running captured equipment like a bunch of bandits
>>65497178Japanese Naval officer corps consisting of the very drunk, very strong and very prone to knife fights over honourfucking kek
>>65497191Traditionally the navy has always been the most professional branch of any armed service with of course a few exceptions.
>>65497258It takes a certain level of discipline to keep yourself sane while confined to a metal tub in the middle of fucking nowhere for weeks or months on end. Hierarchies must be maintained with great diligence, and that system has been in place for centuries without too much real change.
>>65496025yes. anything PLA(x) related in modern changistan. its like a temu version of imperial japan
>>65497191Sailors got to go see how the other places lived and worked; almost no one else had the time, money, and desire to go globe trot and there wasn't any good way to really convey how different things were outside of text which is much less impactful then modern media
>>65497258>>65497285literally the most rebelious are the navy guys, german and russian navy crews were literally commie revolutionaries
>>65497323oh and spanish navy was infested with commies to the extent that RN was afraid to keep its fleets near the spanish civil war cause somehow they thought the commie propaganda would reach them
>>65497298Story? I don't know anything about the PLA, I only know Xi Jinping rotates through party officials like crazy.
>>65497323Sure but they did it all together.
>>65496153The jannies didn’t have an inter-service rivalry retard they were just a corrupt praetorian guard.
>>65497323Being a traitor doesn’t really make you any less disciplined.>>65496422>dumb retard everyone smart in the military and government hates leading a bunch of Russian criminals from prisons to rape and kill children Checks out
>>65496025The Night of the Long Knives between the SS and the SA
>>65497886Debatable. Even if you consider those to be military branches (which they were not really as of July 1934, with the Waffen-SS’ predecessor the SS-Verfügungstruppe not being formed until a couple months later), I’m not sure that this counts as a mere inter-service rivalry. Röhm’s leftie SA milieu was actively agitating for a “second revolution” against the government or at least all the significant pre-machtergreifung establishment holdovers in it. The SS was not such a holdover by any means, and they received orders from the top to purge the SA rather than acting against it on their own initiative. They certainly amplified the suspicions against the SA, but those were hardly unfounded and not adequately attributable to simple rivalry or avarice.
Wasn't there some beef between the usmc and the usn in the pacific eventhough they are meant to act as one?
>>65498030There was some beef between the Army and USMC when a USMC General relieved a Army General and good old boys from west point got big mad and caused a tit for tat before they squashed the beef.
>>65498016People always meme that it’s because rohm was gay, literally everyone knew he was gay and no one cared, they did the knight of the long knives because rohm wanted to sperg out and coup the Nazis and try to coup the German government when Hitler was telling him “chill bro I got this they will vote for me :)”
>>65496153>overratedThe IJA tried to assassinate Yamamoto because he was against expanding the war in China and didn't want to fight the US.
>>65496025During the Falklands war, Argentine Navy Aviation kept a lot of details on how to perform naval interdiction from their fellow Air Force pilots because the admirals and commodores were trying to up one another politically in order to become more prominent within the Junta government (which was run by the Army anyways)This is one of the main reasons for the failed and misconfigured fuses reported by the british navy
>>65497178sauce
>>65496153>>65497854I don't know if you can compare the Janissaries to anything. They were a slave military corps of Islamized Slavs and Caucasians, that gave the Ottomans an edge in manpower. but they stopped mattering as tactics began to improve in Europe and they ended up a bloated corps used mainly to suppress rebellions, often against the empire's own people, but also sometimes against Arabs and Kurds.
FBI vs ATF one is funny. There was a declassified FBI memo where they said not to give the ATF any important missions or info because they are all fat and stupid. Very rare fbi W
>>65497191You're confusing Yamamoto's moment of lucidity with the IJN as a whole. The Pacific invasion was the Navy's plan, because it would rely on them. The Army wanted to invade Russia.
>>65499485That sounds familiar (long read)https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna24549241I think there was also a case of the FBI, ATF and Police ending up trying to arrest each other's undercover agents in a sting but I don't know if that's just fiction or anecdotal. But it was pretty fucking funny considering how the US arranges its law enforcement
>>65496025the british fucked over the australians, the americans the danes, patton and montgomery, all the russian generals fucking each other over under stalin, the worst has to be the allies and poland though, the Americans and the south vietnamese and the afghans and the kurds and ukraine, the Russians and cuba and venezuela, the british and dunkirk and the french, the germans and the romanians at stalingrad,
>>65496208noice. Have a (you).
>>65499485>FBI vs ATF I feel like that would be less of a rivalry and more like a cool jock who has to hang out with and tolerate his unlikeable, annoying dork cousin.
The Middle Ages are loaded with stories of feudalist squabbling between lords completely buttfucking battle plans over petty bullshit. Just look at the French at Agincourt
>>65500030True enough the battle of bosworth where the last legitimate king of England died, Richard III had a faction lead by a man called stanley that basically sat waiting to see who was doing better before he joined in on their side to be on the winning team. It's almways amuzed me that the British are so into their monarchy when in reality the tudors were more like teh Kims in Korea down to establishing their own religion with themselves at the head of it and like the Kims they mudered everyone and anything from commoners and their own sisters, wives etc and ruled by fear. The tower of london is filled with the marks on the walls of all the people their hauled in and tortured and executed, it was state terror. They knew that they were an illigitiate dynasty and even went so far as to alter old stones and decoration to put their symbols in. From the tudors up it's been a farce with no legitimate line, the only real valid claimant after being James the II, the coronation of a kind was a Catholic ceremony, no non Catholc can have a legitimate coronation. They wind up at pic related
>>65499338Shattered Sword
>>65500083You want a hilarious comp? Look at all the Arab nations that attacked Israel after WWII. You had a numerically inferior coalition force attacking in total disconcert and getting buttfucked before concluding not that they had been outfought or that their mission was doomed from the start. No it was that they had been betrayed by the people in charge and started the age of coups in the Middle East and set the stage for the shit show that the region is to this day.
>>65500083Battle of Bosworth was actually a lot more complicated than that. Stanley came in at the last minute and saved Henry who had just been charged by Richard. Henry was losing up until that point. If Stanley hadn't made his move then we would probably be talking about Richards charge as a stroke of tactical genius today.
>>65496025>>65496153IJA-IJN rivalry are legendary since army from the west and navy from the east.
>>65499099Even the US military had huge respect for admiral Yamamoto after his death.
>>65498016Perhaps the Abwehr vs. Sicherheitsdienst rivalry might be a better example from nazi Germany?
>>65499495>I think there was also a case of the FBI, ATF and Police ending up trying to arrest each other's undercover agents in a sting but I don't know if that's just fiction or anecdotal. Its one of these stories that I believe is based on a true event but each retelling of it adds embellishment and often another law enforcement agency into the mix.
>>65500224If they don't speak German are they really German?
>>65500104>Richard III had a faction lead by a man called stanley that basically sat waiting to see who was doing better before he joined in on their side to be on the winning team.This is fair.
>>65500224They had another coup where they installed a dutch dude because a trade cartel wanted to protect their gibs. Yes really. This was after the coup that put cromwells Christmas banning dicatorship in"The outright ban came in June 1647, when Parliament passed an ordinance banning Christmas, Easter and Whitsun festivities, services and celebrations, including festivities in the home, with fines for non-compliance"That was Englands second pass through as a totalitarian terror state after the tudors. Then they had a bunch of traitors that backed a Dutch coup to hijack the place later on to benifit London financiersThe british monarch these days has about as much legitimate claim to the throne as an abul on a dingy
>>65500224To be fair they've been ruled by Germans longer than Germany has been a nation as well?
>>65500224That lot were another buch of imported window dressing, their names were only changed from saxe giotha to windor during ww1 when they got worried the public would lynch them for being krauts. George I never even bothered to learn English and only spoke German his whole life. This ends up with the Kaiser, the Tsar and the English 'king' all being closely related. Half the reason that kaiser wilheim was so seethingw as his cousins used bully him on family events because he was a cripple.Crime gangs basically, the only two semi legitimate Kings of England were Richard III and James the II the rest are more like some shit in an african failed state where some monkey gets sat on a chair to be head of state because a tribe with the biggest crime franchise or a mining concern decided they needed to stick in a new 'president' to do the needful for them. Brexit is particularly funny when you consider their Dutch and German overlords y coup who they treat as sacred cows to this day.If youn want to see what North Korea will be like about the kims in four hundred years just look at the BBC discussing the tudors in hushed tones
>>65500431>George I never even bothered to learn English"Moreover, George I relied on gestures, facial expressions, and the occasional drawing to communicate. This reliance on non-verbal communication became a hallmark of his interactions, making for some memorable exchanges. Royal events were often filled with moments of confusion and charades as the king tried to convey his thoughts and intentions.."https://anglotees.com/the-british-monarch-who-never-learned-english-how-george-i-ruled-britain-despite-the-language-barrier/
>>65500443Wtf. How did they not have interpreters?
>>65500224Not really a problem, the Angles and Saxons are Germanaic tribes after all. Worse as being ruled by the Normans (Danes), or that Henry VII was quarter Welsh.
>>65503265Who the fuck ever wants to talk to Germans?
>>65497173>>65497192This literally never happened retard
>>65497145>>65497191A similar thing happened with the English Civil War where the Royal Navy (hence the continued name) remained loyal to Charles I. This is usually explained by the navy being in a unique position of being directly funded by the King at the time but it continues to this day as the only branch that doesn't swear loyalty to the King because that loyalty is assumed implicit.
>>65500443amusing, but i doubt it. the source linked reads like it was generated by a chatbot>For example, though he was unpopular in Britain due to his supposed inability to speak English, documents from later in his reign show that he understood, spoke and wrote English.[89] He spoke fluent German and French, good Latin, and some Italian and Dutch.[34] John H. Plumb noted that:>Some historians have exaggerated the king's indifference to English affairs and made his ignorance of the English language seem more important than it was. He had little difficulty in communicating with his ministers in French, and his interest in all matters affecting both foreign policy and the court was profound.[90]
>>65497062Around the time of III. Murad, around later 1500s, the Devshirme system was used less and less. So by the later periods, they weren't really slave-soldiers. They were regular old caste-system.
>>65496025Not really close to the Japanese, but the Italian Navy and the Air force have a decent beef dating back to the 20s. Back when it was formed the Air force was immediately seen as a powerful propaganda tool and as such was given some special privileges: in particular they had a law passed in 1931 that said that all military planes were to be under the control of the Air force, including sea borne ones. This meant that even the scout planes on Italian ships were owned by the Air Force and flown by Air Force pilots. More impostantly, It's one of the main reasons why the Navy never really pursued carriers until ww2 had already started, as they would have not had full control over their operations and they felt they would have been a pain in the ass to operate.This beef didn't end with ww2: in 1950 the Navy Acquired a few used SB2C helldivers from the US, but the Air force took them over, citing tht same 1930s law that was technically never abolished.Amusingly that meant the Italian navy fully embraced helis, building the Doria and Vittorio Veneto class helicopter cruisers.Only in the 80s they managed to reach a compromise, with the Garibaldi and its harriers, but to this day the two branches often beef over who gets the most budget, and the Air force insisted to get half of Italy's F35B fleet, despite those being reserved for carrier use...
