Do you like cowboy guns?
>>65497318>You take a sip from your trusty Vault 13 canteen…
Yes I do!
There is something about lever actions that is just so satisfying
>>65497441I wish lever-action 12-Gauge shotguns with exposed hammers were more of a thing.
hell yeah brotheRmore so the revolvers though, I've never really cared about lever action rifles but they look cool
>>65497456Why? Theyre an objectively bad design. Winchester had to strong arm john muthafucken browning into designing the 1887 which was still a piece of shitGet an 1897 if you want exposed hammerGet a 1912 if you want The Perfect Repeater
>>65497318I do but I also think people mythologize them too much. The winchester rifle DID NOT win the west. Thats 20th century revisionism. Hell the transcontinental railroad was already finished for years before the beloved '73 even came out. And the 1866 was only in production for a few years until then too, not enough time to be prolific. No name midwestern percussion rifles and cheap import belgian shotguns won the west.
>>65497318Yeah. Just wish I could afford more
>>65497318No because of the majority of cowboy gun owners
overrated as fuck. 1900-1940 guns are better in every way
>>65497318Lever actions make me erect however I am inclined to agree with this anons sentiments >>65497608
My problem is that I enjoy REAL cowboy guns, not just the Hollywood slop. I visited the local cowboy action club and they all have slicked up 66 and 73s, 1887 shotguns, and Colt SAAs, all shooting steel silhouettes at 15 yards or less. But I read their rules and it makes no sense.. wouldn't legit cowboys be taking long range shots with a sharps or trapdoor? Why aren't European pistols from the 1870s - 1880s allowed? Why isn't double action allowed, even though European designs already had it for decades by that point? It's because their retarded rules were done up by boomers thinking the spaghetti Westerns from the 60s and 70s were historically accurate accounts of the cowboy era. It's fun enough if that's what you're into, but it ain't for me
>>65497850based take. I wish more companies would come out with a wider variation of reproductions from that era. Everybody and their mom makes a SAA clone- which is fine, but you take something like the 1897 Winchester, and literally NOBODY currently makes one. Cimarron was making one up until a few years or so back, but nobody that I know of makes one.
>>65497850Its stupid, both colt and s&w had double action guns in the 1870s too. They wont allow that but they'll allow any shitty modern box lock SxSAnd I'm sure muzzleloaders got used a lot more than the cheezy shows and movies tell you they do too. Its like they think that everybody everywhere suddenly all switched to cartridge arms immediately after the Civil War. Even though you can find pictures of rural people using tennessee rifles into the 1920s
>>65497850Single shot rifle and long range are in CAS as side matches. 300 m with black powder must be fun. Theres also The Plainsman thats CAS but with cap and ball and single shots only and even in the main match theres categories for black powder and cartridge black powder(frontiersman and frontiersman cartridge). Double Action I assume is banned because when going for overall win theres no reason to not use one.
>>65497850Why would cowboys in the American west use European guns you fukken euroboo
>>65497901Cimarron doesn't make anything, they import with QC requirements and finishing options. As to why the cowboy larp fests use older guns its because the "wild west" goes from 1865 to about 1895 and most people prefer the earlier half of the timeline.
>>65497940I never understood that definition of the wild westThe west was obviously wilder prior to thatAt the latest I would say the wild west began with the 1849 gold rush. One could argue even earlier
>>65497939If you wanna be super realistic most American cowboys in the west would be using cheap single shot shotguns cause the fancy "cowboy guns" were expensive as hell.
Yes I do
>>65497578>Theyre an objectively bad designDo you just think that the 1887 is the only physically possible approach to making one?
>>65497850You're not wrong, actually.>>65497934>Double Action I assume is banned because when going for overall win theres no reason to not use one.Do a Double Action Only sidematch.
>>65497608Actual cowboys. Like "I work in a ranch" cowboys probably just own a cheap shotgun. Whats wrong with that?
>>65497850Use your brain bozo. Its a sport. Theyre not ACTUALLY cowboys trying to fight other injuns and horse thieves. They are playing a fun competition with rules. If double actions were allowed, then EVERYONE would be using double actions so they could win. It will just turn into a USPSA/Steel Challenge match at that point. If you want to use a double action pistol in competition go compete in a Steel Challenge match.
>>65498145No, but the amount of "lever swing" you need to make a lever shotgun mechanically possible, is simply not ergonomic. Too much mechanical disadvantage. There's a reason literally nobody made a lever action 12ga since the 1901 was discontinued save for chinese replicas and 21st century turkshit for australian gun laws
>>65498253>No, but the amount of "lever swing" you need to make a lever shotgun mechanically possible, is simply not ergonomicMaybe you just have short arms.
>>65497318No.
i like revolvers and sxs shotguns. it'd be nice to get a breechloader in the future. while i don't dislike lever actions, i dont love them either.
>>65497318Yeah but the thought of reloading a colt saw annoys me. Gates are gay
>>65497924Yeah
>>65497318Indeed
I'd get a lever but the pricing is prohibitive compared to function. For the price of one lever chambered in a pistol round I could get two budget ARs that are much more utilitarian and would out-perform a lever out of the box. I'm not really one to be anal about practical uses of a gun you buy but I need to draw the line at paying $1k for effectively a novelty gun that I'd use purely for fun.
>>65500885a redditard!
>>65500965You can easily find used top eject winchesters and pre safety marlin 30-30s for 4-600. You want the dumb 45-70 or 357 caliber meme guns you pay accordingly. And honestly unless your life or livelihood directly depends on firearm usage (it doesnt) all guns are simply "novelties"
>>65501041Never used plebbit a day in my life and I intend to keep it that way. Luv me ‘obbits, shimple az
>>65497318Fuck yeah, I have a Henry lever-action .22, a Ruger Wrangler, and Colt Python to be rootin', tootin', and shootin'
>>65497578>Winchester had to strong arm john muthafucken browning into designing the 1887Proof?
>>65497318Most of if not all of my guns are cowboy guns so a little the very least.
>>65497318Yes, but I don't care for the Western genre. Figure that out.
>>65502094oops, forgot picture.
>>65497318Not really, I'm more of a 20th century revolver guy. But I'd like to get a top break S&W copy someday.
>>65502098Question for the lever guys: I picked up a really nice Marlin 336 but the loading gate opening has a bunch of gouged jagged edges I have to file off. Does this ever happen naturally through use or did some wanker jam a knife in there trying to clear a jam?
>>65498165You know exactly the kind of owner I'm talking about
>>65502258
>>65497604>>65502214Bully post, brother
>>65502345There really needs to be a synthesis of the two True Grit movies. The first one was more book accurate in most places but the second one was definitely a better quality movie.
>>65502362I love them both honestly. I didn’t read the book until after I watched both movies. And it surprised me that the first movie was literally line for line the book. And the movie was made in the SAME year as the book. I think overall I prefer the first movie, but the remake is an absolute gem and a very respectable remake.
>>65502373I don't like Leboeuf's character from the new movie. They turned him into comic relief where the original was a professional lawman. But it's worth it for the bear guy alone.I went back and watched the old movie recently. I hasn't remembered that the original girl still did a pretty good job of being an irritating sperg. She was the mom in Better Off Dead too, didn't know that.
>>65502410Yeah Matt Damon as Leboeuf was weaker in the new movie, but I feel like he was supposed to be somewhat of a comic relief anyway, so I didn’t care that much. But both Maddie Ross’s were great
>>65497924There were also double action Webley’s and their Belgian copies in the West as well. Custer had a pair of RIC revolvers that he may or may not have carried at Little Big Horn
>>65498253You absolutely could design a system that uses a shorter throw.
>>65497939
>>65503353Lugers in early 1900s America were all 7.65mm pistols, weren't they? I believe that 9mm were submitted for those early Army field tests, but I don't know if it had any actual commercial presence around then.
>>65497939>Why would cowboys in the American west use European gunsBecause they were often either better or cheaper.
>>65502458More likely an Adams (or Belgian copy).I'd fucking love a Adams repro but noooo, fucking boomers and their single action bullshit only.Sam "Can't Figure Out DA" Colt and his patent trolling butt boy should have just been shot and dumped in a mine shaft so competent people could get on with it.
>>65503409Samuel Colt was dead before the 1873 Single Action Army, but I do agree that I would love to see repros of Colt's early double-action guns.Hell, I'd settle for a Blackhawk with a DA/SA trigger.
>>65503439Colt's incompetence IS responsible for the persistence of SA well past the point it should have died though, because Colt's DA guns were shit.
>>65503444What other double-action guns were really around in the U.S that were particularly good? I really like the Starr revolver a lot, it has a really smart design overall, but it really came into its own when it ditched its janky attempt at double-action for a normal single-action only.IMO, it's really not until the 1870s that the American industry finally starts getting double-action revolvers right overall.
>>65503451>around in the U.SNone, largely due to Colt's horseshit. That's why I want a new-made Adams.
>>65497318Tell me about that Model 3. I really want one but I've heard some are junk.
>>65497939Because "Made in Belgium" was the 1800s equivalent of "Made in Turkey"You could buy a Colt for $7, a Smith & Wesson for $4, or for $1 you could get a potmetal double-action pocket revolver out of the Sears catalog and the ad would show a guy on a bike shooting a dog with it
>>65501354I'm not gonna look it up but I'll corroborate it and say I heard that tooBasically Browning wanted to do a pump shotgun, but Winchester said "We're the lever-action guys, it has to be lever action" so Browning took the opportunity to try out a bunch of other design ideas he had to see if they'd work. That's why the elevator is so goofy and why it's not just a lever rifle scaled up to 12 gauge.
>>65503916I've heard the story as well, but I've never seen a primary source, as far as I can tell the story is completely apocryphal
>>65503905>the ad would show a guy on a bike shooting a dog with it
>>65503363Luger pistols were offered for commercial sale chambered for 9x19 starting some time around 1902, before 9x19 was adopted by any military.Although the 9mm versions were initially less popular than the 7.65mm versions.
>>65503947>ad literally says the gun is for good for shooting predatory door-to-door salesmen that they to pressure and intimidate housewives into buying ludicrously overpriced family biblesInsanely based.
The reason we don't see many S&W or European revolvers in westerns is because the Colt SAA was the only one durable enough to survive the abuse of a film set.
>>65497901The Cimarron imported 1897s were trash and is the only gun I consider a complete dud in my entire collection, it lasted maybe 50 shells before every shot was a light strike. And it’s impossible to take it apart as all the pins were either shattered from 12 gauge recoil or just fell apart.
>>65504089>the Colt SAA was the only one durable enough to survive the abuse of a film set.thats bullshitits the one cheap enough to be abused on a film set.same thing applies to the blackpowder standins they were cheap and not rare. has nothing to do with durability and everything to do with availability.
>>65503468Just buy an Uberti, usually hear nothing but good things about those except price.
>>65504089>shooting blanks on film sets is somehow more demanding and harder on the guns than firing live ammo in actual military servicePlease consider the meaning of the you're saying before you regurgitate completely unfounded boomer fuddlore.Your claim is CLEARLY retarded and false.Hollywood westerns used lots of Colt SAAs because those were cheap, easily available, shot common ammo, and were seen as quintessentially American.So Colt SAAs became the standard generic "Western" gun. Didn't stop Hollywood from using other guns too, but they usually only strayed from the generic standard if they had a plot-related reason for it.If a character was supposed to be a poorfag, he might be carrying a nameless Belgian revolver, or an obsolete cap&ball gun.Conversely, If a character was supposed to be a legendary professional gunfighter, he might carry something fancy like a Lemat, a top-break S&W, or a Merwin Hulbert, etc, etc.Everyone else just got [Generic Western gun no1] that was a Colt SAA, or a replica thereof. Because any given propmaster/armorer would have piles of those just laying around.
>>65504045Book agents means gambling bookies.
>>65503939https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1887>Its lever-action design was chosen at the behest of the Winchester Repeating Arms Company, best known at the time as manufacturers of lever-action rifles such as the Winchester Model 1873. Designer John Browning suggested that a pump-action would be much more appropriate for a repeating shotgun, but Winchester management's position was that, at the time, the company was known as a "lever-action firearm company", and felt that their new shotgun must also be a lever-action for reasons of brand recognition. Browning responded by designing a breech-loading, rolling block lever-action.
>>65504791My understanding is the only real source is brownings brother matt retelling the story years later with him saying John said, "I've been thinking about a lever shotgun and it will sell, but I think my slide design will look better and be easier to use." I also believe at the time Winchester had bought several of his patients for slide guns that they never built, so it's not that he had to be forced to build the 1887, but that is what the story has become over time and is being repeated here.
>>65504045>>65504579Why not both?
No clue if I came to the right place, but I might as well ask. Are there any good derringer options for someone on a budget ($500 or less MSRP)? I would prefer something in a cheap caliber too, but that is not a must.
>>65505614https://palmettostatearmory.com/bond-arms-stinger-22lr-3-compact-pistol-2rds-black-basl.html
>>65505678Thanks.
>>65504579Apparently not.Seems like traveling book salesmen were quite the scoundrels back in the day.But I suppose that a cheap-ass revolver being used to ward off hired goons trying to collect gambling debts isn't a unrealistic scenario
>>65503342seems moreso with the turkish shotties that came out 11 years ago.
>>65497578>Theyre an objectively bad designNot bad but definitively worse than the 1893Why JMB didn't do a reciprocating bolt shotgun like the 1893 but cycled with a lever is another question.
I do, but all I have is an old sxs. It's a great gun though.
>>65502253Picture of it?
I like em
>>65503468>>65504104The Model 3 has a bushing at the front of the cylinder to keep BP fouling off the cylinder pin. Uberti didn't want to sell theirs with a cylinder too short to work with 45 LC and lengthening the cylinder would require shortening the bushing. The correct approach would be to lengthen the frame and keep the bushing intact, but being Italians and not knowing (or caring) about how it worked, they took the easy way out and just shortened the bushing. As a result, most people will tell you that the Italian version only runs on smokeless. In my experience you can make the 38SW version work with BP, but it takes lots of lube and you'll be manually assisting the cylinder after a few reloads. I don't have one in 45 LC but I'm told that they jam up hard quickly. Again, not a problem with smokeless, but what's the fun of that? Other than that, mine has been great.>there's another fix out there that requires some machining and milling and shit that supposedly corrects it but i'm not about to try it with a drill press and hand tools
>>65510158Its pointless, shoehorning a lever into the design to operate a slide action shotgun when you can just . . . make a slide action shotgun
>>65514103The correct approach would to not make it in 45 colt. Fuck 45 colt. Overrated cartidge that boomers force every replica to be chambered in
>>65514707It's what's commonly available as a rimmed big bore revolver cartridge.
>>65497318Would getting into cowboy guns as a start be an okay idea or would I be better off going for something more modern?
>>65514103Honestly, I'd be using smokeless powder.>>65514707>>65514894.45 LC also uses the same diameter bulets as .45 ACP, which I'm already invested in reloading. It's kind of a shitty round, but if I wanted someone for the effects of the bullet rather than>neat gunI'd just get a .44 Red Hawk or something.
>>65502410>She was the mom in Better Off Dead too, didn't know that.Haven't watched that in years.Car races, Hot chicks, Dancing, Cocaine mountain, and EG Daily.I know nothing to do with /k/ but this dude was not to be messed with:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsxJfcFVnpo
>>6551489444-40 is an objectively better cartridge, and correct in both colt revolvers, the aforementioned model 3, and winchester rifles, unlike 45lc which was only used in the saa and other coltsAnd its not really much more expensive than 45lc either
What was the most powerful handgun of the Old West?
>>65516054Supposedly the full power load of the 1847 walker wasnt beat in pure energy until the 357 magnum in 1935
>>65516045>44-40 is an objectively better cartridgeFor blackpowder, sure, it's just about optimal, but it's also less commonly available and also it's annoying to handload.>unlike 45lc which was only used in the saa and other coltsSure, but it's also barely the same .45 Colt cartridge today, that cartridge went through changes even back in the day. The modern .45 Colt cartridge is a typical .44 Special style affair, and is a stronger and more reliable case.>>65516054Counting common factory handguns, and not cut down rifles or stuff, think that the Colt Walker was probably it, but it's just not nearly as powerful as legend has gassed it up to be. You weren't ever meant to load 60gr of powder in the things (which is actually not easy to even do), and it's gonna put horrible wear on your frame if you do that.>>65516063That's the claim, yes, but I don't think it's actually quite true.
>>65516063As in hole in head or decent decapitation?
>>65516093Various sources say 450-500 ft-lbs, which is greater than 44spl or 38-44 HD loads of the 1920s-30s, so I believe it
>>65516117>Various sources say 450-500 ft-lbsFor what loads though?
>Colt Walkerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_EbMvLh6ZE
>>65516119Supposedly 60 grains of powder behind the original 170 grain conicals will sling them at 1100 fps, or 140gr round balls at about 1200fps
>>65516135That doesn't actually fit in the Colt Walker.
>>65516137Uberti doesn't "recommend" it, but ive read on the forums you can fit 60 grains in there, barely. Id like to get one if my own one day to do my own load development on it though.
>>65516140See: >>65516122 at 16 minutes.You can't really do it like a lot of people think. 60gr is basically full chamber on a Colt Walker with actual blackpowder, you're really gonna struggle to try to fit much more than 40gr.
>>65516157He mentions using a 260 grain conical, so of course 60 grains wouldn't fit.
>>65497318yeah imho firearms peaked at the end of the 19th century
>>65515909You can, but some cowboy guns, even modern reproductions, can be temperamental, like 1851 Navy revolvers and some lever action reproductions. I wouldn't recommend black powder to a complete noob either, too much work for someone just trying to learn. As a new shooter you want something dead simple, cheap, and reliable. Get the Ruger single action in .22, it's nicer than a rough rider, and it comes with a .22 WMR cylinder in case you want to spend more money on ammo.
>>65514707>>65516045When they rolled these out in the nineties, you could buy 45 Colt at a gun shop. You couldn't buy any of the cartridges that the Schofield was historically chambered in at a gun shop, and ordering ammunition off the internet wasn't a thing. Their choice made sense. Granted, they've had 30 years to reconsider, but this is Uberti that we're talking about. They didn't bother with CNC until 20 years ago and they only did it because Beretta forced them to.>44-40 is an objectively better cartridgeAh, I see that you went with the oft-quoted "1200 FPS" figure. That's out of a rifle. Out of a pistol, they're about the same. Besides that, 44-40 is objectively more difficult to reload and costs more, so...>>65516140Anon, this may surprise you but not everyone on the internet is honest. Believe it or not, there are people on /k/ that don't own guns but love to tell other anons about guns, and there are people on other forums that also lie.>ive read on the forumsThey lied. Whether they lied inadvertently by repeating a lie in an effort to be helpful or they lied intentionally to cause problems for strangers, I can't say. But they lied.>picrel is 50 grains of fffg goex>not saying it's impossible to get another 10 grains and a ball in there, but it's not going to be easyThe next time someone gives you the 60 grains figure, show them this picture and ask for details.
>>65514702What are clueless politicians for $200?
>>65514702Lever feels better.
>>65516734>rectangular cylinder stop notchesThat is very obviously NOT a walker cylinder dude
>>65516734>Ah, I see that you went with the oft-quoted "1200 FPS" figure. That's out of a rifle. Out of a pistol, they're about the same. Besides that, 44-40 is objectively more difficult to reload and costs more, so....44-40 Winchester and .45 Colt would obviously have closely comparable ballistic performance, but it's not power that makes the .44-40 better for blackpowder, it's the case. As you know, the .44-40 Winchester has this subtle and thin-walled bottleneck to it, and the actual purpose this serves is better obturation for blackpowder, sealing the chamber better and making sure much less fouling comes back into the action.That thin neck is annoying to reload with, sure, but it has a very real purpose and value which the .45 Colt can't offer in any of its incarnations, antique or modern, and it's one of the reason the .45 Colt cartridge just wasn't as suitable for rifles at the time.For smokeless ammo today, this doesn't matter, but for blackpowder, where even the nicest make is gonna be pretty dirty, it's a big deal.This isn't me saying that all repro bigbore guns should be .44-40 no matter what, I think chambering for .45 Colt is good enough on its own and has its purpose (if you're only shooting smokeless, this is completely unimportant), but there were some very real practical reasons people preferred .44-40 back in the day, and they aren't insignificant today. It depends on what you want and value out of your guns and ammo.
>>65517436Subjective.
>>65517571Fucking obviously? You might as well have said "Well that's just YOUR opinion!"
>>65497456cimmaron just released a repro of the 1887. seems decent made, but made in PRC so it could be ok? the chinese stuff is 50/50 whereas the turkish shotguns are all pretty terrible https://www.atlantarifleworks.com/products/shotguns-cimarron-cl188726-844234239177-7175>the price tagyou can always get a maverick 88 and run it. you cant break them
>>65503947this looks like a copy of another ad
