The economics of missile interception just don't work. It's so much easier to spam offensive missiles than defensive missiles. I feel like we should be changing strategy entirely and build as many ballistic missiles as possible rather than trying to shoot down enemy missiles with even more expensive missiles, when we could instead make even more offensive missiles for striking the enemy.
Intercepting is still cheaper that letting the missile hit something expensive like a power plant.
>>65502150Why not just invade the country firing those missiles and stop them from firing them in the first place?
>>65502184I'm just talking about the economics of stand off strikes, not overall war conduct.
>>65502184Invading a country with a population that won't accept your puppet government is how you get Vietnam and Afghanistan.
>>65502187the economics of stand off strikes cannot be separated from overall war conduct
>>65502188Why not just kill them then? If you invade and win, the populace are at your mercy.
>>65502216You know why not, so let's avoid a tiresome conversation
>>65502222But from what we've seen, it doesn't take all that much to agitate a populace into enabling and accepting genocide.The average person will gladly force great suffering and death on others so long as they feel it is morally justified, and morality can be bent and manipulated quite easily.What if Iran, for example, detonates a nuclear device on US soil in a terrorist attack? Wouldn't that galvanize the American populace against them?
>>65502232>But from what we've seen, it doesn't take all that much to agitate a populace into enabling and accepting genocide.Source: my swollen anusAs expected, a tiresome conversation
>>65502236Source: history*You can look at practically any genocide committed in the past century and see how easily the general populace gets manipulated into hating and wanting to destroy an outside group, at least to the extent of enabling the military destruction of them.
>>65502216Lets say you do, you invade a country in a muslim part of the world that has been saying for decades you are the devil and want to genocide them and start genociding them. What do you think happens next? Do you think other muslim countries are ok with that? Do you lock down the whole boarder of a country on the other side of the world when you can't lock down your own? Do any of the dozens of extremist groups decide they are willing to fight you? What about the ~5 million muslims in the US, are they cool with it?Don't just answer 1 and call it a day, answer all or fail in your war, weakening your country militarily, economically and diplomatically.
>>65502243>Do you think other muslim countries are ok with that?Yes, of course. Those sh*a devils deserve their destruction and all the honorable and venerable Sunni countries wouldn't mind one bit if their biggest enemy disappeared.>Don't just answer 1 and call it a day, answer all or fail in your war, weakening your country militarily, economically and diplomatically.Literal nonsense. See for example:>Do you lock down the whole boarder of a country on the other side of the world when you can't lock down your own?Who cares about refugees escaping the country into other shithole countries? Where exactly is the relevance in this?>Do any of the dozens of extremist groups decide they are willing to fight you? They already are fighting the US. Are we pretending like Islamists haven't been doing this shit for decades now?>What about the ~5 million muslims in the US, are they cool with it?Are they traitors to the United States? Then deal with them adequately.
>>65502241Enabling genocide is not easy at all, point out literally one in the last century that was "easy" and not instead the breakdown of order
>>65502266>Enabling genocide is not easy at all, point out literally one in the last century that was "easy"The holocaust. The Nazis genuinely didn't have to put much effort into enabling hatred against the Jews. Getting into power is the hard part, not what you do after you're there.>and not instead the breakdown of orderBreakdown of order IS easy though.Maintaining order and developing it further is hard. Destroying it is as easy as taking out a couple transformers in key locations.
>>65502241Putting your enemy on deaths ground is a way to make sure they resist you as much as humanly possible.
>>65502150>The economics of missile interception just don't work.incorrectwe just don't know how to build cost effective products in the west(or build anything at all really) and so it seems like its a losing proposition
>>65502286That is actually a good thing if you have absolute supremacy in terms of military ability and fires. It just means they'll die in the open.It's far harder to deal with an enemy that's 99% just people trying to get by and 1% of fanatical fighters who use the rest as cover to strike at you as hard and covertly as they can.
>>65502292So you think, say, China, could probably build cost-effective interceptors?
>>65502150but america and israel are raping their enemies after having survived massive missile barrages because of their interceptors. they can do what they want and iran runs around like headless chicken. perhaps if iran had interceptors, they would have been able to complete their nuclear program. you can't put a price on jihad.
>>65502188That doesn't describe those two things at all. In Afghanistan the military was forbidden to actually defeat the enemy. In Vietnam, they weren't allowed to invade the north. In both cases, if the politicians actually wanted victory instead of stock options, they would have won big time. >but le nukes!china didn't nuke ussr for being in afghanistan or helping vietnam invade cambodia and they hated them a lot fucking more than the united states.
>>65502277>The holocaust. The Nazis genuinely didn't have to put much effort into enabling hatred against the Jews.completely false statement and I'll explain why>building off centuries-long anti-semitism>years of focused effort and reorganised institutions to exclude Jews from public life>giant world war kicked off, enabling concealed mass killings>installation of authoritarian government able to bypass public opinion>population STILL not uniformly behind genocide"easy">Maintaining order and developing it further is hard. Destroying it is as easy as taking out a couple transformers in key locations.????????
>>65502150A reminder that the thirdie has nothing of value to defend and thus cannot comprehend that you use whatever you have to protect it.
>>65502188>>65502216Funny you mentioned Afghanistan.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQSndaDIvcs
>>65502150The Fattah-1 costs from $1-3 million per AUR for Iran. Iran's GDP is $300.29 billion. One Fattah-1 accounts for 0.00033% of Iran's GDP. The PAC-3 MSE cost $4 million per AUR for the US. The US' GDP is $32.49 trillion. One PAC-3 MSE accounts for 0.00001231% of the US' GDP. In other words, the US could fire off 27 PAC-3 MSEs (equal to 0.00033237% of US GDP) before the US is spending the equivalent in terms of GDP percentage Iran does to fire off one Fattah-1. And that's if the Fattah-1 actually costs only $1 million to produce - which I have my doubts on. So, no, your statement doesn't add up when using actual math.
Cheap drone carriers with cheap medium/short range missile ought to do it.The thing iran is doing with recoverable drone missile should also be looked into desu.
>>65502773>The thing iran is doing with recoverable drone missileWhat?
>>65502779Its the a remotely piloted drone with a jet/rocket engine, using IIR, it loiters around for a bit scanning for a target and if it doesnt get any it deploys a parachute so you only expend the fuel instead of the whole missile.
>>65502769The economic argument isn't actually in the US 's favor.Being limited on funds means that you can scale production to demand (ideal example: Ukraine)Being limited on production capacity means monetary cost scale inverse exponentially to leftover capacity as production capacity is maxed out (see: RAM)For this and various other reasons, you really want to be on the side limited on funds in industrial societies ("post industrial" societies are finding this out the hard way right now)
>>65502236>>65502241Genocide is such a vague term that it can mean effectively anything in this day and age. Were the allied powers privy to a genocide when they killed a million Germans, dissolving and then suppressing the Nazi party as an entity? If not, then does that mean targeting subcultures of an existing ethnicity while leaving the greater ethnicity itself intact isn't genocide?
>>65502790
>>65502790Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of GenocideArticle IIIn the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:Killing members of the group;Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.The Nazi party is a POLITICAL group, and Germans weren't being killed "to destroy Germany because it's German"
>>65502783>If it doesnt get any it deploys a parachuteCan I see it doing this and landing? I've never seen this feature verifiable proven. The US has intercepted many 358s headed for Yemen, and no parachute was mentioned. Iraq has found 358s that landed in Iraq, and none have parachutes around them, either. Are you sure you just didn't fall for Iranian online propaganda and ate it up without doing any of your own research into it?https://www.centcom.mil/Portals/6/Documents/Reports/20FEBslides.pdf
>>65502805>Germans weren't being killed "to destroy Germany because it's German"*Henry Morgenthau sweating nervously*
>>65502184Because your tanks would be blown up by drones
>>65502769This is true, and its why the war isn't actually about ballisticsThe real disproportionate value exchange for Iran is denying commercial shipping through the strait (straits now that the houthis are back in the game) which costs them practically nothing to do and can be maintained as a capability in the face of anything short of a actual ground invasion of Iran
>>65502805That's the problem, nowadays you see autists treating their political groups like they're their own sovereign countries and peoples and whenever they're confronted for causing trouble they'll tell you they're being genocided.
>>65502789>The economic argument isn't actually in the US 's favor.Yes it is, it's literally basic economics.>Being limited on funds means that you can scale production to demandWhat the fuck does that even mean? Production is always scaled to demand, especially in the US.>(ideal example: Ukraine)Ukraine isn't limited on funds. They literally have an almost unlimited bank account funded by Europe and the US.>Being limited on production capacity means monetary cost scale inverse exponentially to leftover capacity as production capacity is maxed outThe US isn't limited on production capacity, hence the ability to rapidly ramp up production once the US DoD demand meets it.> (see: RAM)What do you mean by RAM? There's multiple military usages of RAM.>For this and various other reasons, you really want to be on the side limited on funds in industrial societies ("post industrial" societies are finding this out the hard way right now)That's just cope for being poor.
>>65502790>does that mean targeting subcultures of an existing ethnicity while leaving the greater ethnicity itself intact isn't genocide?I believe the technical term in that case is "democide"
>>65502828Sounds like shitskin cope that you know isn't even true. KEK.
>>65502831>Production is always scaled to demand, especially in the US.You must be a productions expert from the federal reserves.I think our demands will be going up soon, please prepare your production lines.
>>65502840>You must be a productions expert from the federal reserves.No, I'm just not a retard like you. PAC-3 production went from ~200 to 600 without standing up another production line. Because guess what? The DoD ordered 600 instead of the 200 they did in previous years...>I think our demands will be going up soon, please prepare your production lines.That's been happening for almost 3 years already.Also, way to ignore the other 90% of my post, idiot.
>>65502150>The economics of missile interception just don't work.War is inherently a wasteful activity. It only matters in the here and now because countries are engaging in wasteful colonial affairs.
>>65502812Idk, the design should still be looked into like the ukranian anti drone drone that can be deployed again it drives down attrition.
>>65502850>way to ignore the other 90% of my postI really should've went for 100%. Now I've given you the false impression that 10% of your model output has qualitative value.
>>65502868The US already thought of this years ago. They use HPMs to fry the incoming drones and then fly back to their launch point when done to be refurbished and reused. They work on drone swarms and fiber optic drones, too.>>65502869Oh, going with the midwit "U IS BOT!!!!" now, are we, brainlet?
>>65502799/qa/ lost, sorry.
>>65502216Russians reduced the population of Afghanistan by 1/3 over a period of ten years and still lost.Germans were murdering anyone they didn't like in Poland, the Balkans and the USSR and still couldn't control those areas.It doesn't work.
>>65502150Is this you, anon?
>>65502150And yet Iran has gotten objectively BTFO in this war so far, and has done fuck all damage to its enemy.>yes but moneyMIC hand wringing continues.
>>65503171Killing 1/3 of enemy's population doesn't matter when the enemy has 10 kids each and they don't even feel the losses. Maybe if soviets sterilised afghans after they had 2 kids it would've worked better but they couldn't justify that ideologically.
>>65503171Basically the same reason you don't assassinate leaders and kill negotiators too.Most of the world figured this out several centuries back, you'd have to resurrect some shitty little barely iron age tribe and bootstrap them directly from seething irrelevance to a major world power to find anyone who doesn't have an instinctive aversion to behaving like that.
>>65503196This is such a completely nonsensical comparison I have to assume you're a retard
>>65503694Welcome to the modern internet. Roll D6, on a 5+ you get to talk to someone who's not subnormal.
>>65502150comparing the price of the missile being intercepted to the price of the missile doing the intercepting shows you're retarded and don't know what you're talking about anyway
>>65503332>OPEN THE FUCKING STRAITS YOU CRAZY BASTARDS!!t. trump
>>65503756You know, there was no problem with the Strait of Hormuz until Israel decided to assassinate a world leader apropos of nothing.
>>65503453If you just depopulate an entire region like that, who's going to keep the lights on?You can't occupy it undefinitely with soldiers and your own population growth is unlikely to be enough, you'll need to spend massive amounts of money creating incentives to make people move and try to develop the new area, doing it forcefully is just as expensive and will generate more dissent.Ideally you want the local population to side with you eventually so they keep the place running and develop it organically so you can actually profit from occupying it on the long term.
It's not just about missiles, ALL warfare in general has an offensive and first move bias, the advantage granted by surprise, the reduction in the enemies counterattack capabilities, the seizing of momentum etc. All millitary theory and literature supports the offense over the defense as the definitive and decisive form of warfare.What people like OP might not have thought fully through though, is that you have fully justified Israel's actions since the preemptive strike in 1967 including the most recent attacks, if you have an openly declared enemy, strike first and strike fast.
>>65503843That being the case, why are we supposed to be mad about Germany supposedly trying to exterminate the Jews again?
>>65503843This sort of thinking is what got us the battle of the frontiers with almost 30k french dead in a single day.
>>65503784?You do it the way our rulers ethnically cleansed our major citiesSimple demographic change
>>65504742The things we'll do to them when the day comes...
>>65502884That is the dumbest missile they created btw, massive cost and turnaround for what is effectively a close range jammer that requires large cost per launch and a plane. If you watch promotional material they don't even pretend to be using anything to "fry" anything outside of jamming tier behavior.It does not fry onboard components, it just jams GPS, control links, etc.The F1 style racing drones would do the job this "missile" was created for, doing a more effective job too because they at least have tens of minutes of uptime for chasing down drones, quick inertial turn around for a repass and an actual fast battery turnaround that can be done cheaply in field by some dude in a bunker.
>>65502150>it's more expensive to intercept missiles than it is to shoot them so you should just let the enemy indiscriminately bomb youWhy are thirdies like this?
>>65502150Missiles and rotary cannons are an intermediary for energy weapons.
>>65502769>The Fattah-1 costs from $1-3 million per AUR for Iran.Thats an estimation using western prices for a similar missile. If you ppp-adjust it, it becomes much much less. Its simple but banal errors like this that lead to America embarking on this tard crusade.
>>65503843>Posting a jew in a non-negative context.Didn't read. Eat shit and die, shill.
>>65502850>No, I'm just not a retard like you. PAC-3 production went from ~200 to 600 without standing up another production line. Because guess what? The DoD ordered 600 instead of the 200 they did in previous years...Production went from 200 to 600 and stayed there because they went from 1 shift production to 3 shift production. Thats why it will take until 2030 or 2033 depending on source to increase production to 2000 per year. Investing in automated production is expensive because machines are expensive and have to be paid off regardless of future demand, investing in manual machine less production that can be scaled up and down easy is cheap and a drop in demand in the future is no problem, just do the layoff thing. This also means that expanding muntions production in America is quite hard once you have maxed out your existing facility. Its simply considered bad business to do so.
>>65502150That's a really aesthetic missile. What does it do?
>>65502184Because midterms and Trump promising no new wars on his current or next term.
>>65502163Your point?>>65502150The answer is laser point defense.
For each missile they made, Israel will produce 100 interceptors easily.
>>65505141Blows up out buildings.
>>65504836Nowhere did they say that. Please shut the fuck up and lurk.>>65506127Who pays for them?
>>65506127>Israel will producelmao
ITT : Thirdies literally cannot comprehend the value in defending your high-value assets instead of packing them full of human shields and letting them get bombed for maximum Izzat
