>perfectly good ship >construction well underway>retarded king comes and asks an additional gun deck>can't argue cause he's the king and he can destroy you>additional deck makes the ship too heavy, while being too tall and narrow of beam>sails for roughly a mile before capsizing Didn't naval architects have some sort of failsafe in case of aristocratic meddling?
yes. but it requires a sacrifice every once in a while.that was one such sacrifice.
>>65506171>Didn't naval architects have some sort of failsafe in case of aristocratic meddling?They hired a Dutch guy to design the thing, he was considered a world-leading expert in ship design, he was the one who implemented all the changes the king wanted.When the ship proved to be highly unstable, he basically just said "No, it isn't. I ran all the numbers and the math checks out, just trust me bro, I'm an expert".When the ship sank as soon as it hit open waters he was obviously under investigation for incompetence and possible deliberate sabotage.His entire defense was "I ran the numbers, the numbers all looked good. The ship was stable. Only almighty god himself could ever know why it sank."Somehow he wasn't held responsible. But the fact that the Swedes didn't build any more of the planned ships shows pretty clearly that they knew he was talking out of his ass.
>>65506194>just do a proletarian revolution bro>it will magically remove all political medeling and leadership fuckups bro
>>65506171That's bullshit, basically fuddlore. The completed ship was very close to the original, intended design. If anons want the actual history of the Vasa and her demise they should check out this serieshttps://youtu.be/yknLUNgMqOI
>>65506223It will create a society where there are multiple levels of legit and legal structure to internally deal with leadership being retards, yes.
>>65506227I pray that you live and die (horribly ofc) under proletarian rule.
>>65506227Worked really well with those 5 year plans.
>>65506294Nothing wrong with five year plans, even Project 2025 uses them.
>>65506171It's gonna happen again with Trump's battleship.
>>65506194lol, lmao even
>>65506227>there are multiple levels of legit and legal structure to internally deal with leadership being retardsThat being to send to a concentration camp anyone who dares to bring it up or doublt the glorious leadership publicly.
>>65506222Half the ship was built using Swedish feet, the other using Dutch feet. A Swedish foot had 12 inches, while a Dutch one had 11. While the Dutch inch was longer than the Swedish one, there still was a difference of about half a US inch between the two feet. So the ship had a slightly different (heavier) shape on one side. It was also too tall for its beam, meaning it had very poor self-righting momentum.
>>65506320>Trump's battleshipI hope he adds an extra gun deck.
>>65506222>His entire defense was "I ran the numbers, the numbers all looked good. The ship was stable. Only almighty god himself could ever know why it sank.">Somehow he wasn't held responsible.It sounds like a polite please-don't-chop-my-head-off way to say>It's not my fault that I made exactly what you wanted me to and your dumb-shit idea didn't work
>>65506171>Didn't naval architects have some sort of failsafe in case of aristocratic meddling?No and ships sinking for retarded reasons are actually a pretty common thing troughout history. My personal experience is that only people who have grown up near the sea can grow into seamen, city people and inlanders have a predisposition towards reckless behavior at sea because they think its like gigantic park pond or small lake. Its more like traveling across the Warp, but without demons. If you fuck up you are dead. An example from the recent past is the loss of El Faro. A rusted out former USN auxillary ship that sailed into an hurricane because the captain wanted to look good for the MBAs at ship HQ by sticking to their scheduled arrival time so he could get enough goodboy points to be promoted to a new vessel. When the Coast Guard inspected El Faros sistership, she was immediately redlined and forbidden to operate because she was in a state of advanced decay. The company had intended to shift her to the west coast and have her run between Seattle and Alaska, meaning she would have to run trough massive pacific winter storms. After the Coast Guard inspection, she was scrapped.
>>65506194>normalize driving electric cars by making them look like normal cars instead of retarded futuristic tech demonstrators >huge success >make your next electric car look like retarded futuristic tech demonstratorWhat was he thinking?
>>65506700Inevitably, success gets to anyone's head and they lose the ability to self-criticize, thinking they are gifted by the Gods and can never do any wrong (anymore).It's why the Romans had a slave constantly muttering "memento mori" behind a triumphant general. "You're hot shit now but don't think you'll be hot shit forever".
Funny how a thread about warships has no warships on it.
>>65506171History is full of retarded rulers that think they know better and cowards that won't tell them to fuck off.
>>65506770Prachtig.
>>65506689>Ocean is more like traveling across the Warp, but without demons. If you fuck up you are dead.Without demons, you say? Are we talking about the same ocean?
>>65506194There are two in my rural neighborhood. I think they loop neat. Im hoping when the battery poops out on one of them ill be able to buy it for super cheap and use it for my two minute drive to our local corner store and back.
>>65506770'Ave a cog, mate.
>>65506605Source?
>>65506833that's not a fucking cog at all
>>65506171>Didn't naval architects have some sort of failsafe in case of aristocratic meddling?Not at that time. It wasn't until the loss of HMS Captain in 1869 (an unseaworthy ironclad designed by a prominent private citizen over the objections of more skilled naval engineers, that sank in an otherwise survivable storm) that we started to see a move towards the centralized, technocratic model of naval procurement that we see today.
>>65506870>in 1869Fuck, got the date wrong. It was launched in 1869 but didn't sink until 1870.
>>65506861It's what we would call a Renaissance War Galley but the Russians at the time called it a Cog. Just liek now, an era when ship classifications meant fuckall, mostly because of retarded lubbers.
There was no formal method to calculate a ship’s stability, like we have today. Ship designers mostly based their calculations to determine the center of gravity on experience and practical experiments and tests. During one of these tests with Vasa, the designer realised that the ship wouldn’t be stable and even capsize (they performed this test by having people run side to side on the deck, measuring rolling time). The king was abroad, and had sent letter after letter demanding the ship to be finished because it was needed in an upcoming war. The ship designer decided to continue commissioning the ship regardless and the rest is history.
>>65506222>When the ship proved to be highly unstable, he basically just said "No, it isn't. I ran all the numbers and the math checks out, just trust me bro, I'm an expert".>When the ship sank as soon as it hit open waters he was obviously under investigation for incompetence and possible deliberate sabotage. His entire defense was "I ran the numbers, the numbers all looked good. The ship was stable. Only almighty god himself could ever know why it sank.">Somehow he wasn't held responsible. Lol This is some Chinese Imperial Court bullshit lmao. Stick to your stories gentlemen.
>>65506227Ah yes the Soviet Union was well know for its lack of executive meddling and sane desicion making.
>>65506222Nah, they tested stability the day before by having the crew running from side to side on the upper deck, it proved so unstable that they had to cancel the test. The ship sinking was not the huge surprise it's made out to be, they feared it would, but by then it was much too late. There's a lot of bullshit being perpetuated when it comes to the Vasa.
>>65506227>actually gets bogged down in endless layers of bureaucratic fuckery and politicking like a bossstagnation time!
>>65506605nta but I saw this too in a documentary. they found at least one of used calipers and did the measurements.
>>65506870Funny how the designer of the ship was abroad during the sinking. I wonder what were his last thought as his retarded vanity project swallowed 500 men.
>>65508797>ve gaaaan
>>65506222Sound like me when I don't pull out
>>65506227But that is the exact opposite of what actually happened in evey single communist country you absolute retard.
>>65506833How are those massive oars stored?
>>65506171I am more impressed how perfectly Vasa was preserved by the low oxygen environment of the baltic sea. the ship wasn't even that deep. only 32 meters and a stone throw away from stockholm. It sat there for three centuries (longer then the US has existed for example) before resurfacinggod bless the naval fuck ups that built her
>>65509539>I am more impressed how perfectly Vasa was preserved by the low oxygen environment of the baltic sea.It wasnt low oxygen until the last 60 years. The real reason Vasa was preserved is the lack of shipworms, they cant live in non salty water. Vasa sank in water that was 100% fresh, delivered directly from lake Mälaren.
>>65509550>The real reasonthe real reason is that baltic sea in its entirety is a excellent preserver of shipwrecks. its not something specific to vasa. Low oxygen is a major contributor to it, although its effects become apparent at depths below 40 meters
>>65509516Either hoisted up and resting in their rowlocks or drawn inwards and resting in line with the rower spaces.
>>65509316kek
>>65508797>You know what they call 500 swedes at the bottom of the baltic?>A good start!
the funny thing with sweden is that we will win the war if our navy is destroyed
>>65506689An Indian submarine literally sank a few years ago because they left a hatch open.
>>65506171>naval architectsShipbuilding during that era was like the early days of aviation - the guys designing things were not using mathematical formulas because they didn't exist, and many of the principles they were building to were poorly understood. You built the next one like the last one because you knew it would work. If you wanted something new, you borrowed elements from earlier things that worked and put them together in a new combination, and hopefully that would work.>sometimes it didn't
>>65514017In Varas case the experience of the engineers was enough to know the ship was unstable. It did not even pass its dry test in safe harbor when men ran from on side to the other rocking it. Still "passed" because it was brute forced to get it out and take part in a war
My favorite ship is the IJN Kotetsu. >Confederates need another ironclad>buy it from the french>French know the union won’t like this and so take every precaution to make it appear that the ship is being built for Egypt, name it the “sphinx.”>France gets caught by the union and pressured not to sell the ship, so they decide to smuggle it to the confederacy by selling half of it to Denmark and half to Prussia, who are at war with each other at the moment, as the “Prinz Adalbert” and the “Stærkodder”>The two parts are recombined and the Danes cell the ship to the confederacy, who named it the “CSS Stonewall” and sail it to America>they arrive five days after the Civil War has ended, and the crew, who basically just need money at this point, sell the ship to Cuba>Cuba then sells the ship to the union, as the union moves to park the ship in its naval yard, it accidentally rams a freighter and sinks it, attaining its first kill>Japanese businessmen touring America see the ship in the union shipyard and decide to buy it, renaming it again to “Kotetsu” (meaning “armored”)>they sail it to Japan but in an inversion of what had previously occurred, Japan ENTERS a civil war during its trip to the country>America wants to remain neutral in this Civil War so while it had technically been sold to the Tokugawa Shogunate, America seizes the ship mid route and re-hoists the American flag, marking the second time America has taken possession of this ship while it has held the title of another nations fleet.>the Shogunate loses the war and is dissolved, and the ship is claimed by the Imperial Japanese government, marking the second time it has been purchased and then denied to the losers of a civil war.>Japan immediately has a second, smaller civil war which it finally sees actual combat use in>all this while looking like a steampunk version of an ancient Greek Trireme
>>65516482She still saw action in the Boshin war, including a boarding attempt by Shinsengumi remnants.
>>65516857How does a single company of dudes find the time to go on so many different adventures when they're nominally meant to be town guards?
>>65506689>El Faro>Captain sails right into the eyewall of a category 4 hurricaneJesus Christ.
>>65506605Maybe it would have gone better if they used their hands?
