From apex SMG of the MP5 to utter mediocrity, what would you have done to make it better?Assume that you're still making an SMG in bigger calibers like .40 and .45, would you still make it a cheap plastic blowback gun, or would you do it differently?
>>65515501.22 is not a big caliber for a pistol cartridge.
>>65515503Neither is it for a rifle, yet everyone and their mudda uses .22 caliber rifles for mainline infantry Almost like artillery and air superiority are truly the only things that matter!
>>65515499Wasn't the UMP devised for a contract asking specifically for a dirt cheap SMG? Honestly just make it a roller delayed and it's probably as popular as the Mp5 still is today. Easy.
>>65515499>take a P90>add Super V recoil dampening system in the back>two-stage trigger of the AUG>chambered in 10mm Auto
>>65515526>two-stage triggerFor what purpose?
>>65515526>make the p90 heavy>give it a shitty trigger>make it in a caliber other than .45ACPOk retard
>>65515499Bullpup it
>>65515550>using Fuddy-Five when 10mm "Man Mangler" exists
>>65515541semi auto or full with the same trigger pull, eliminates the silly rotating selector of the P90.
>>65515559Just do a normal selector instead.
>>65515526>add Super V recoil dampening system in the backLiterally just better to use a delayed action so that you can have a lighter bolt (and gun) instead.
>10mm Auto / .45 Auto>lever-delayed blowback, telescoping closed bolt>6" barrel, integrated quietener option for .45>magwell in grip, thumb paddle mag release (ambi)>full LRBHO functionality, heel mounted bolt release>aluminum mags with clear viewing windows, drop free>extruded aluminum upper, grip integral to lower and molded out of plastic>top receiver rail for sights and optics, bottom rail for grips>MLOK slots on side>modern take on classic H&K rear drum sight and hooded front sightThoughts?
>>65515555More like man meat mongler
>>65515526>two-stage trigger of the AUGThe P90 already has a two stage trigger to go full auto, what the fuck are you talking about?
in .45 wouldn't change anything, the UMP is kingin .40 the MP5/40 is best
>>65515638Probably from one of the PCC or frt threadsnobody on this board comprehends what firearms even are let alone how they're constructed/how they functionbecause they're nogunz video gamers
>>65515499There are many things one could do to make it a superior design; unfortunately, all the changes one could make would increase the cost.>Making the bolt lighter like the MP5.>Making it delayed blowback like the MP5.>Making it gas operated like all the AR-9 or the SIG MPX; it could be a DI gun or a short stroke gas piston gun (Controversial as HK alreadymade the best delayed blowback in the market).>If they insist on a straight blowback, give it a hydraulic buffer tube to better absorb recoil just like the Daniel Defense SMG/PCC or the B&T APC (controversial as some people hate buffer tubes).>Make the frame/receiver heavier like the MP5 (the opposite of what consumers wanted).
>>65515512MP5 was an offshoot derivative design of a roller-delayed rifle (chambered in a pistol cartridge, making it thus a submachine gun). That is how and why it exists in the first placeThat is how and why we today have the notion/idea of a "muh roller submachine gun" to begin with, so that nogunz in 2026 can say>muh roller delay SMG, i wantz it, hazz to be dat
>>65515660Correction of my own comment >>65515660:>Making it gas operated like all the AR-9Yes, many cheaper AR-9s are straight blowback and not gas operated; I was merely thinking of the higher quality ones that are gas operated. My bad.
The gun was fine for the humble role of straight blowback mostly polymer SMG/Carbine. Availability and an appropriately humble price tag was all it lacked.
>>65515752Being a blowback gun that's mostly made of plastic, you'd think that it would be priced very cheaply.
>>65515662Delayed actions make for less felt recoil and overall lower weight, as compared to blowback. If you've ever shot even a semi-auto MP5 clone of some kind, you'd know how handy and smoothly shooting they are, so I don't think it's weird that people want that in a 9mm carbine (or other pistol caliber). That's in addition to decades and decades of fame with spec-ops and SWAT types, and entertainment like action movies.It'll cost more, but for people who just want something cheap there's plenty of options, like the Hi-Point.
>>65515499Make it roller delayed like the regular mp5 and make it take extended (20+ round) mk23 or usp mags and make it handle fuddy five up to 45 super
>>65515888What's he looking at bros
>>65515888Whats the cheapest double stack pcc thats worthwhile? Been eyeballing the FPC since it came out
>>65515667Anyone got any experience with those? I used to have a 10.5" blowback one that took modded uzi mags a long time ago. How is the recoil on the gas operated ones?
>>65515559That's called a progressive trigger and it sucks.
>>65515967dat ass
>>65515559doesn't P90 already do that? just rotate to full auto and do half trigger pull for semi
sell it and buy an mp5
>>65516127>mp5Not built or chambered in .45 ACPthe MP5/40 is the best submachine gun available in .40 S&W and a better firearm than both the UMP 40 and MP5/10
>>65515499The thing should have been a downsized G36. The Mp7 is a downsized G36, so its not like they cant, they just chose blowback.
>>65515499Bore out the bolt carrier and put in a tungsten mass to reduce bolt bounce.
>>65516345(as said on prior threads ---go to desuarchive) G36, UMP, and MP7 were the three polymer receiver long guns of HK at beginning 1990s. Of those the latter is probably the most successful design: essentially a mini-G36 in the smaller chambering with magazine-in-grip, and because of the small OAL dimension the most effective of these 3 polymer receiver guns from HK. UMP is less successful (and also in submachine gun comparison to the much earlier MP5 derived-from-rifle-G3-HK33) as a relatively crude simple blowback design but it does the job in its originally-intended .45 ACP that the MP5 never could be chambered. G36 is HK's biggest failure (although they/others claim 'welp it satisfied the Bundeswehr contract') and simply not a great infantry rifle; the shorter-barrel variants are tolerable as CQB arms.
>>65515499Make it a roller gun and chamber it only in .357 Sig.
>>65515499bullpup it & make it 10mm
RE: muh delayed blowback or muh roller, B&T has pretty much done a cheapo trailer park version of this with their various rifle- and pistol-caliber guns. >>65515961>handle 45As previously noted the original 1960s MP5 can't be chambered for .45 ACP.45 ACP conversions of the HK roller guns have been done using a G3 as the donor. If you want an MP5-style submachine gun in .45 ACP you're going to have to use a G3 or HK21 size rifle receiver as the starting point of the design. tl/dr it's going to be a heavy beast, heavier than the UMP 45
>>65516379Are there any bullpup submachine guns? (pistol caliber chambering)besides the 9 mm AUG
>>65516387>21I presume you meant 91.
>>65516403No I meant HK21 the machine gun which has a beefed up bolt/locking partsbut also include 91 (which would have been duplicative as already said G3)
>>65516391theres a few, but never they got popular
>>65516391Chinese JS 9
>>65516424Converting a 21 to .45 should constitute a capital crime.
>>65516455checked, maybe but from a parts kit what's the differenceyou want the .45 ACP gun to be full autocould even make it belt fed (from drums)
>>65516370The UMP has tungsten sand sealed into a compartment of the bolt, and that stops bolt bounce, but it's not magic.>>65516312.40 is inferior.>>65516387>As previously noted the original 1960s MP5 can't be chambered for .45 ACP>If you want an MP5-style submachine gun in .45 ACP you're going to have to use a G3 or HK21 size rifle receiver as the starting point of the designWhat makes you think this? People have very much done .45 MP5s without using G3 receivers, like Fleming.
>>65516374Uh, thanks chatgpt. The G36 was a huge success (single handedly pulled HK back from the abyss of bankruptcy), and while more successful than the UMP, I think you're way overstating how well the MP7 sold.>as a relatively crude simple blowback design but it does the job in its originally-intended .45 ACP that the MP5 never could be chamberedProblem is, nobody wants that. .45 is already a round that most of the world doesn't care about, so you're primarily restricted to US customers; and the UMP only actually hit the market at the turn of the millennium; by which time North Hollywood had gotten every PD and federal agency taking a long hard look at their arsenals. If they were to gimp themselves with an SMG over a carbine, they didnt want "crude but does the job"; they wanted something nice. Soft shooting, tunable, and a categorical upgrade to the MP5s many of them already had. The UMP simply wasnt that, but if it had been gas operated then it potentially could have been.
>>65516391P90 is a bullpup, it's just arranged Chicago style
>>65515499>what would you have done to make it better?Make it a roller-delayed blowback gun and only offer it in 9mm and 10mm.
>>65515499Why bother? Just get an AR
>>65516478>.40 inferiorMP5/40 is the best submachine gun ever made.>Fleming very muchNobody cares.>>65516486>huge successWrong. It's a piece of shit rifle.>nobody wants .45OP does>categoricalBack to video games, nogunz GPT.
>>65515509>>65515503.22-250 is the future of pdws
>>65516500checked,10 mm has been superseded in short-barreled select fire rifles by .300 Blackout. (and also for most submachine gun pistol-caliber chamberings)>>65516486That is why submachine guns aren't typically used or sought in 21st century by militiaries, spec ops, or LE unless their dept specifically has a million-round stash of pistol ammo they've been promulgated to make use of based on gov budgeting.
How small can the HK roller system practically scale down? .32? .22lr?
>>655165214.6×30mm
>>65516504By your own logic, OP cares, faggot.
>>65516529Do you have a single fact to back that up?
>>65516521why would you roller delay a 22lr?at that point, just give it a hammer fired mechanism
>>65516532>malding ESL brainletI said the OP cares about .45This post >>65516486 stated:>round that most of the world doesn't care about
>>65516539Pic related, just imagine how tiny it will be!Also after learning that the ounce is long recoil I've been stuck on the idea of non blowback .22lr
>>65515662As a hazzguns, let me assure you that indeed it does hazz to be dat
>>65516559What's kekworthy to me about all the seekers of 'smooth shooting' MP5s are the amount of complaints about the intolerable ergonomics and recoil impulse of G3 / 91
>>65515499>makes thread about UMP>posts single stack USC insteadEmbarrassing...
>>65516560The size obviously changes the form factor some.However, yes, MP5 ergonomics and handling are largely G3 ergonomics, ergo comically awkward and dated, but scaling down the action for a pistol cartridge obviously makes for something that's pleasant and mild, as compared to the mildly violent feeling of .308 from a roller-delayed gun.If I could have a 9mm subgun which had controls and overall shape a bit more like the FAL, I think that'd kick a lot of ass. Piston with a locked breech isn't really idea for 9mm though, nor are a fully machined set of receivers very necessary, so I'm still picturing it with a stamped receiver and roller-delayed action.
>>65516504
>>65515631Make the .45 in .45 Super, and then include a replacement bolt/lever setup for shooting .45 Auto as subsonics.
>>65515631Make it take AR pistol grips so people can customize the ergos a bit. Also, .45 Selbstlader UntermenschkontrolPistole Ernichtungs-Raketechambering is quite necessary as >>65516626 suggested
>>65515499I would make it an extar ep45 /thread
>>65516560If the G3 was being compared to a straight blowback .308 people would definitely call it smooth shooting and handy.
>>65515501basically yeah 45 apc eats shit out of a carbine
>>65516665.45 super always reminds me of .45 winmag and then I get sad
>>65515526Super V is direct blowback with a retarded twist. Go fuck yourself
>>65516558The best you'd get is recoil operation or API blowback. Any kind of gas system is a non starter due to sheer amounts of crud. It's already bad enough cleaning .22 cans
>>65516521NGL it's .380
>>65516478Take a closer look at the ejection port to understand why .45 MP5's started and ended with Fleming
>>65515499Simplified roller delayed system of the Stribog bar none. (It's also in the Kuna)The .45 Bog is such a better shooter than the UMP that HK needs to concede defeat and make a UMP 2.0 with that system
>>65516504>Wrong. It's a piece of shit rifle.NTA. A gun can be bad (like the G36) and succeed in the market. Tons of countries bought it; you started seeing them not only in Germany but also in the UK, France, Spain, Denmark, Egypt, Finland, Italy, Malaysia, Sweden, Argentina, etc.
>>65516529Anon, the MP7 uses a shortstroke piston system. not delayed blowback.
>>65516816>Simplified roller delayed system of the Stribog bar none. (It's also in the Kuna)It's also in that new Taurus SMG/PCC.
>>65516816
>>65516865>bought itMeans nothing, plenty of rifles have been bought by countries for 200 yearsNobody wants G36s any more they're dumping them>>65516871>MP7where in my post replied to do those 3 characters appear
CEAM Model 1950.30 carbine French proto CETME.Cute mags desu
buffered recoil like the ghm9
>>65517365Very funky looking predecessor from the same company.Dig that underfolder
>>65516665>Make it take AR pistol grips so people can customize the ergos a bit. The goal is to make it a particularly compact close range automatic weapon, so that really isn't necessary over making it short, unless you want to make it a bullpup. I think that the grip ergos on stuff like the Uzi and MP9 are good.I'd like to give this weapon a purpose which a normal 5.56mm carbine couldn't fill in the exact same way, maximizing firepower while staying shorter than an already short MK.18 or similar.>>65516811First of all, they didn't, second, they were a series of one-off conversions he did, of course they are what they are.The notion would be to make an all new MP5 in .45 from the very ground up, new receiver and all. You wouldn't need a modified G3 receiver as a base to achieve this.
>>65515499the Kuna is what the UMP wishes it was>.40>. roller delayed>less than 1k
>>65517475Do they have it in 10mm or .45?
>>65515499The same way I would fix the G36 - full aluminum construction for a start.
>>65516504>categorical>a videogame word???
>>65517838Video gamers are the kings of muh categories, categorizing categorical <----because that is the nature of video game brain & life: no flexibility, it's OCD 'everything needs its own storage box' mental illnessInvent categories, solely just to 'have a place to put things', a D&D landscape where everything has its designated power scaleSame mentality of and people that attend renaissance fairs, furries, comicon etc. Categorizing faggots, that's their entire life is concocting categories and pigeonholing, naming, illusory taxonomies so that it fits into the video game's heirarchy. Self-imprisonment delusion, that is video gamers video game corps/designers and video gamer psychology of categorization that they want to impose as a grid on the entire world, everyone they meet>you will be absorbed into the borg of my video gamer mind, here have a category [for things that need to be left alone]They can't stfu, are brainwashed
