No. Budget friendly was a gambeson in early medieval, and munitions armor in late medieval. Hes wearing a mail shirt, which wasn't particularly cheap, and the scaled leather bullshit just seems to be an elaborate tabard.

>>65519987
Looks like a peasant get up tbqh

>>65519988
Peasants couldn't even afford gloves.

>>65519978
metal scale armor in medieval europe was not common/very rare except for the brigandine.
those could be affordable depending on the time period

>>65519990
Where you a peasant?

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>>65519978
No, that is nothing. Your question also depends very much on time and place as in the later medieval period the common footsoldiers of most states could afford plate cuirasses and often more.
The Game of Thrones TV series is also all over the place when it comes to their visual language. Some people wear fantastical migration era mail and "skyrim fur armor" while others have full suits of fantasy plate. And iirc this charakter is the brother of the Lord of the Riverlands and thus should be far more kitted out... and also far more colorful.
>>65519987
The mail shirt is also very short. And I think the leather bits should invoke some kind of scale hauberk.
>>65519990
Kek no. Free farmers that were obliged for marital duties were required to keep quite a lot of equipment.

>>65520018
Nah I had gloves

>>65519990
>>65520035
>Free farmers

I mean it all comes down to where and exactly when you are. A big problem is recent American immigrants have projected stories about whatever east of Berlin shithole they crawled out of onto British/American shared history.

>>65519990
They couldn't even afford feet!

>>65519978
Sure, a gambeson if you are broke and leather over a gambeson if you are slightly less broke.
Metal armour was well outside the budget of plebs but a merchant could afford it or to supply it to guards.

>>65520055
The issue is that most people think that all peasants were serfs and that serfs were essentially slaves. In addition to free farmers there were also a variety of types of serfdom/bondage relations and most of them made it so that the peasant wouldn't have to fight, as his primary duty was to economically support dedicated fighters (i.e. nobles and their retinues). But there were also types of bondage where one was expected to fight. The whole topic is so large that making blanket statements is always very imprecise.

>>65519978
Chainmail was state of the art in 11th century and most of the crusades. It only protects you from cuts but doesn't absorb any impacts.
>>65520035
Breast plates came into use in the late 14th century. Those could protect you from direct blows even from a mace. If breast plates were available nobody who could afford one would wear chainmail.

>>65520066
Pretty much what I was trying to communicate there.
But you know, the Old Country was terrible, we got pogrommed uphill both ways, we're totally genuine Americans just like you though, etc.

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>>65520067
>Breast plates came into use in the late 14th century
That's why I specified the later medieval period. But even for the earlier periods the mail is too short.
>>65520069
Ok. I don't care for usamerican identiy "politics".

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>>65520067
>If breast plates were available nobody who could afford one would wear chainmail.
Plate was cheaper than mail anyway, since the invention of the trip hammer and the black death made the more labor intensive production of mail more expensive.

>>65520055
>A big problem is recent American immigrants have projected stories about whatever east of Berlin shithole they crawled out of onto British/American shared history.
Mostly Mark Twain's fault actually, he really hated Southerners and noticed that they romanticized medieval Europe so he basically invented mudcore out of spite.

>>65520079
>usamerican
why have I seen more of this recently? is it in vogue in some space or another?

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I find Sweden to be very fascinating during the early modern era. Gustav Vasa could call upon his nobles, burghers and freemen militia. The freemen militia wore baggy pants which was considered extremely unfashionable and armed themselves with a cuirass, helmet, crossbow and usually a sword and halberd. It's notable that they prefered fighting as crossbowmen 'skyttar' and were legally protected from participating in sieges, that duty fell to the nobles, burghers and mercenaries. The burghers also loved crossbows but would be more heavily armoured. So you had these country bumpkins fight German landsknechts in Danish service which has been depicted.

>>65520163
Don't know. In my native language the equivalent term is used since the 1950s.
>>65520166
>It's notable that they prefered fighting as crossbowmen 'skyttar' and were legally protected from participating in sieges
Interesting. What was the reason for this?
>Swordstaff
Are there surviving swedish examples? A google search didn't yield any results - only drawings.

>>65519990
Fucking peasents, man! Dumb gloveless bastards.

>>65520179
>Don't know. In my native language the equivalent term is used since the 1950s.
Oh, really? What lanugage? In English and all the spanish I'm aware of it's just American (or gringo) and the usamerican people trend to being losers.

>>65520035
I hope this story ends "happily ever after..."

>>65520045
Fucking poser peasants, man. Lying gloved bastard.

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>>65519978
Nah man. This is.

>>65520035
>Free farmers that were obliged for marital duties
I thought Prima Noctis was a myth.

>>65520179
I'm just guessing but I suppose people prefer shooting their enemy from a safe distance. I took a look again and apparently they fought in an early version of pike & shot, the majority were crossbowmen that were supported by "billmen" who would engage the enemy when it was time, though the crossbowmen would also participate in melee.
There's one surviving example, just search for swedish swordstaff and someone's photos on FB should come up.

>>65519987
>gambeson
>early medieval

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>>65520185
German. To be fair this term is more often used in the news or academic publications, colloquially the term "american" is used far more often, but I find it useful to denote topics that relate to the USA.
>>65520186
Well it is about the Burgundian Wars... so one person specifically didn't get a happy ending.

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>>65520201
>when one spelling mistake invalidates my entire post
>>65520206
>I'm just guessing but I suppose people prefer shooting their enemy from a safe distance
I mean, battles are always dangerous so why single out sieges where crossbowmen were useful in surpressing the defensive walkways or specifically targeting single points/VIPs?
>There's one surviving example, just search for swedish swordstaff and someone's photos on FB should come up.
Sadly not. I get a reconstruction.

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>>65520253
Hmm I think it was actually that they were exempt from storming.

>>65520300
Thx for the image.
>exempt from storming.
Makes a bit more sense.

>>65519978
>Everything dyed black
Your man there is a medieval fashion victim, and the equivalent of a modern actress appearing in public in a retarded looking dress that cost more than the average car.

>>65520035
>Free farmers
a farm owner was the boss of 10-20 people, not an average joe, more like lower management in todays standards.

>>65520482
Lmao no.
Plenty of people simply owned and farmed their own lands. You can get a lot done if you have enough kids and extended family concentrated together. Peasants were also fairly communal and would help each other out with work.

>>65519978
>40lbs of steel
>affordable

Nah.

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>>65520166

>>65520514
absolutely not. owning a farm was a privilege. a farm owner was akin to a small business owner. peasants worked at those farms as maids and stable boys/field workers. competition among farms was hard though, its not like today where farms get tax payer money galore. farms used to fail and go bankrupt a lot and ownership changed every few generations.

>>65520514
>>65520581
you see that even reflect in typical farmer family names. "meyer" literally means "bigger" or "greater" because the guy was above the local plebs.

>>65520482
Not necessarily. A Free Farmer as its baseline was simply a farmer not in any relation of bondage and thus also had martial obligations (anybody who was considered Free in medieval society had those). More often than not Free Farmers were wealthy because they had to be simply to maintain their societal station and thus could also employ workers (who could be Free as well or Unfree). Those Free Farmers who could not afford this maintenance entered bondage relations.
Anyways my comment aimed at the all too common notion that peasant levies were a bunch of unwashed dregs when in reality they were at worst lower middle class.

>>65520253
>Inherently long duration of service
>Takes you away from tilling and growing seasons and/or your ass is freezing to death in a lean-to during the depth of northern Europe winter because you do not own a tent because they were very expensive
>High chance of shitting yourself to death from disease in the siege camp

The more interesting thing is that the burgher/freeman classes had enough sway to dictate terms of their military service during the early modern eras shift from feudal to national military forces.

>>65520482
A yeoman could have a small estate managed by himself and immediate family. Or a large one staffed with many.
But they were all expected to keep a regulated list of equipment. At least in Anglo history.

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>>65520179
>>Swordstaff
>Are there surviving swedish examples?
None that I know of, but here's a modern guess made by Peter Johnsson.

>>65520575
didn't this fatty have some weird beef with the HEMA community?

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>>65520667
>Is Mormon
>Is cringe
Hated by
>Gay larpagans and trannies
>Also cringe

There is an annoying undercurrent of American trannies and European my wife's son liberals in the hema/reenactment community. Matt Easton, poster child my wifes son style bong liberal, seethed people he knew interacted with >shadman and it was a whole thing on the Internet. Matt Easton also scammed all his retarded fans into buying $900 windlass made ($150) swords on the lie they'd be exacting copies of museum pieces he'd measured. Then they hit hands and the stated weights, balance points, dimensions, and grind were all wrong because fucking surprise they were Indian swords made on a power hammer. Then he made a 25 part video series about how original swords were shit too so all the modern manufacturing caused problems with his repros are no big deal. After the first run of suckers they proceeded to sit as dead retail stock because they're priced 4x higher then they're worth. Then the Chinese gaped all their asses, Matt Easton specifically, by swordier making cheap and good hema and cutting swords at a sub $300 price point with "stolen designs".

And couldn't happen to a better guy, Matt Easton's claim to authority/actual business is selling antique militaria. Which is now under constant threat because the UK is tackling migrant crime by... even more proposed knife and blade bans that will put him out of business.

By comparison shad is just a goober who doesn't know much about swords IRL (cough, like skalagrim) and that sets off the jealous pseuds he's made a small career out of fooling around with cheap production sword repros. His biggest crime is being publicly Mormon, but not for apostasy because that means he clearly wants to kill all the gays, and writing some tedious fiction books. But the swords he plugs (romanceofmen ironically) are actually really solid cutting katanas, beating out the ~$600 katana markets manufacturers while costing sub $200.

>>65520669
>>65520666
>>65520575
Fine pike gem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-XXeNfmcxM

>>65520581
>>65520583
Anon, farms were not modern businesses, they were largely families farming their own land, consuming what they sold, and then selling off the excess. Commercial farming existed, but was not the majority of farms by any means. Even then, literally everyone with a trade of any sort employed people. It's not equivalent to modem middle management by any stretch.

>>65520179
>Interesting. What was the reason for this?
Same reason nigger tribals prefer throwing spears and running away to closing with and stabbing the enemy to death. Same reason untrained militias in the firelock era were notorious for breaking at the first sign that they might be engaged hand-to-hand. Man's natural inclination is towards ranged weapons and skirmish warfare. It takes training to break that instinct and teach them otherwise.

>>65520726
>$900 windlass made

They were never $900. They're $400 max.

>>65520092
Mail can be repaired in the field and you've always got the jack of plates option too. You're not always going to be clanking around with tents and a baggage train.

>>65520079
>I don't care for usamerican identiy "politics"
Me neither but is has infested and homogenised historical awareness.

>>65521318
Mail is not any more repairable in the field than plate for the VAST majority of people. Either there's a smith in the train, or you're probably fucked as any repair you do yourself either won't hold, or relies on tools a soldier does not own.

The reality is that plate rapidly displaced mail, being cheaper, faster to produce, and more effective. Mail stayed in circulation, but in large part because the secondary market was huge. If you were a filthy commoner, you'd get a helmet and brig or breastplate before you'd even glance at mail unless you were "I can literally only afford a mail standard" poor.

>>65520667
All I know is he wrote a really shitty book that people made fun of for a bit

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>>65520726
You shut the fuck up about Matt. Almost everything you said was wrong.

>>65519988
>scaled shoulder cover
>scaled vest
>chainmail shirt under it
>leather strip skirt
>proper belting for his sword scabbard
>some sort of house sigil/emblem on his chest

what the fuck kind of peasants you looking at bro?... they wear a simple shirt, pants, a light tailed hat, maybe some stockings and a simple leather shoe.. if they're a little more rich then your average peasant they wear the SAME SHIT just dyed with color, or a really long tail on their hat.. or both

>>65520035
isnt that kept in an armory though? never though peasantry was even allowed to keep and maintain their weapons/armor

like they might have their sword and underclothing like a gambeson or something but their entire set of plate and helmet? wouldn't that be a great way to have half your army show up with stolen/lost equipment

>>65520035
>and also far more colorful.
He's known as "The Blackfish" IIRC so the showrunners took that literally.

>>65521370
Fair point in the case of poorfags and munition plate.
Pliers, leather strips and sinew are not exactly high technology though. If you have horses you can find something in the spares. The poors aren't operating independently in any case, but a raiding party might and your fucking tournament plate is not the go-to even if you own it.

>>65521404
>never though peasantry was even allowed to keep and maintain their weapons/armor
In some places and times it was restricted. In other places and times it was mandated. And in a lot of times and places there weren't much in the way of laws about it, and it came down to how much money they had to throw around and how important they felt arms&armor were.

>>65521404
>never though peasantry was even allowed to keep and maintain their weapons/armor
see >>65520066 et al.

It's not all the same thing. Englishmen for instance would famously be required by law to keep and train with a bow. Slavov Shiteovich might get chucked in a well for looking at a scythe with malicious intent.

>>65520066
Serf is a broad term that could mean literally anything.

The bottem of the totem pole mud farming quasi-slaves were called villeins. Then you had cottagers above them (they had their own land but owed labor), and free tenants were above them (they just had to pay rent). You also had freemen who I don't fully understand.

And that's the argi ecosystem there was a whole other military ecosystem where you had like retainers, men-at-arms and captains and knights who were all varying degrees of someone's bitch.

>>65519978
The real tragedy of that show is not how the writing when to shit, it's how the costumes went to shit.

>>65521094
Now they are. And that's still comically overpriced for a windlass.

>>65521394
>Voted for the party backing the expanded kniof ban that'd destroy his and Todd's professions
>Doesn't believe you should own guns
>Because he's a hekkin good person, unlike >shadman
>Wrong about half of his medieval hot takes, not an authoritative source or well researched on anything (like >shadman)

I hate fatter (less fat? Now they're both fat) 2nd skalagrim as much as the next guy, but for the right reasons. The same reasons you should have long since stopped watching most swordtoobers but especially Easton. They're bad at reviewing swords and have conflicts of interest they've been exposed on but never disclosed.

>>65520055
>lord of the manor is a faggot and a drunkard
>flatpack your hovel and fuck off to another village
>your new manorial lord is overjoyed to have another skilled ploughman
>black_death.jpg
>rent like a shitload of open field land and a house on the home farm off said manorial lord but retain common rights
>you are now a yeoman and based

>>65521517
I'll say that as cringey as Matt can be some of the time he seems to have stopped that in recent years and has been way more cynical and anti government on his facebook. Seems to have given up hope on a lot of stuff, shitposts about the state of the UK military, posts photos of his guns frequently. He's no Paul Harrel but the petty sniping seems to have MOSTLY stopped.

>>65520035
Show me a surviving example of medieval peasant gloves.
Checkmate, revisionist

>>65520726
>Swordier
>Good
I bet you watch Sellsword Arts and consume swords in HEMA as Content. No one who places at tournaments uses Swordier, both because they suck and people are loyal to their brands who dont do shit like blatantly stealing designs. The current influx of tiktok driven retards to get into hema and hype up every new sword & buy one just because it is a New Thing is turning HEMA into such a shitty Current Year Thing because you can't just wanna show up and sword fight. You gotta have your ironic fucking HEMA shirt and sticker and make sure to tag your tiktok videos that are 80% a face way too close to the camera with some fake authentic "POV you just discovered a Nerd Gym" basedboy caption fuck.

I legitimately miss the days when Lee Smith and Skallagrim's End Him Rightly were the annoying memes of the day and not the rampant consumerism and commoditization that is going on. Most of the Chink sword makers suck with the exception of LK Chen, Swordier deserves special mention for not just doing a major foul but for doing what appears to be an attempt to undercut the major sabre suppliers in Europe and drive them out of business so triple fuck Swordier.

Skallagrim is cringey, Shad is an annoying faggot. Skallagrim isn't gonna try and be the smartest man in the room in every conversation and at least he admits he isnt that great + is trying to get better. Shad can't let someone else have the last word and terminally online retards fall into that trap and it kills them.

>>65520035
>The mail shirt is also very short
That is completely normal for the early medieval period.

>>65520035
>marital duties

>>65522274
>he doesn't train in the marital arts

>>65522305
yeah no i got sent into that shit like a russian conscript

>>65522305
Waste of my time, I'll never need it.

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>>65521404
No, Free Men (Free Peasants, Knights, etc.) were obligated to wage war and thus were responsible for their own equipment, which was their property. Urban militias usually stored most of their equipment in guildhouses because they were organised around those institutions.
>>65522101
Here.

>>65522109
>T...t...they stole the hutton saber!!!1! (Literally lol, lmao btw that this was said in real life)
>Unlike you I'm a real hemaist, can't you see by how invested i am in YouTubers!? I hate everyone else at my nerd gym!
>Windlass good, swordier bad! Daddy said so!

I actually go outside and do a small renfest circuit with my living history group and one of the not shit sword booth guys had a new off the boat stock of swordier junk at internet price. It's decidedly ok. I wouldn't pay what I did for my VA sharp for any of it but that's the funny part of costing nothing. I would look at it pretty hard to replace any aging hanwei, zen warrior fencing (sca machinist crap), and even castile armoury (the literal biggest piece of shit a friend was saddled with for a rapier, temper nonexistent) piece of beater kit and some krieger and hfarmory offerings because... get this... they're all cheap foreign imports.

>>65519978
Blackfish is a commander, his armor isn't all that important. In the books he wore real armor.

Was the warhammer the drone of medieval warfare?

>>65522792
The poleaxe maybe

>>65522792
The only thing comparable to drone warfare in the middle ages would be a big rock dropped from a sufficient height or launched via some engine.

>>65522669
complete bullshit. nobles feared peasants revolts so they kept peasants unarmed and specifically not trained in warfare. you saw that in the numerous peasants revolts all over europe in the middle ages. pro tip: the peasants were always armed with farming tools predominantly and got clapped by professional armies almost every single time.
yeah in some region in some century under some lord or king it might have been different, but not in general.

we also got some examples of the nobles abandoning the peasants in case of foreign invasions (mongol, turk) and the peasants getting massacred with little resistance, because they werent equipped or trained or organized enough to defend themselves alone in any way. so much for the "every man was equipped and trained" no absolutely not, forget about this meme.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Peasants'_War

>>65522837

Boiling pitch or oil had to make storming rather unpleasant. I imagine it made your metal armor fry you like a stove top even when it didn't completely find its way inside. Probably made the suffering much worse protecting you just enough that all the nerves in your skin didn't burn and go numb quickly and you instead died agonizing or survived long enough for the skin to come off and die of infection.

Or what about the flammable liquid clay pots. Like molotoving someone back in the day.
Would seem to make the fight quite unsporting.
Didn't they have big flaming tar balls too that caught whatever they hit on fire?

>>65522851
>Yeoman and city burghers were by law mandated to have arms and armor and provide civil defense and campaign service near universally across northern, western, central, and most of eastern Europe
>Nononono but what about peasant revolts
Wiki the battle of golden spurs retard

>>65522948
Boiling oil or tar is a victorianism, that shit was expensive and rare enough to not waste like that. Now boiling water and red hot sand are entirely other things. Imagine climbing the siege ladder and you get a face full of 600 degree pocket sand through the ocular.

>>65522792
>>65522837
>>65522802
>They don't know about Talhoffer's UGVs

>>65520166
>Swede going straight for the balls

>>65523094
No, the one on the right is a landsknecht in Danish service.

>>65522851
>so much for the "every man was equipped and trained"
I never made that claim and always differentiated between the Free and Unfree population groups, as the former had martial duties and was such required to own arms while the latter was barred from this obligation. And you bringing up the German Peasants War is really funny as firstly this conflict took place after the middle ages and secondly took place in a time when the number of Free Farmers in Germany already had significantly declined because the ecclesiastical and secular landholders had extensively expanded and consolidated their ownership over the land since the 12th century. Within the various uprisings that get consolidated into this one conflict were a few Free Farmers who acted as leaders for their respective peasant bands but the overwhelming majority of the revolting peasants were unfree and thus had no arms of their own nor any amount of training because they were barred from those.
>>65522948
This >>65523004
>Or what about the flammable liquid clay pots. Like molotoving someone back in the day.
There were no liquid and volatile fuels. The materials they had were far more viscous and thus were mainly used against structures. There were also smoke pots which released a variety of irritating fumes.

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>>65519978
if we're talking about plate armor, then i would say pic rel is what the average infantryman would wear, minus the visor because you would typically not have one on foot
if you couldnt afford a minimum of armor then you were a liability, and most armies by the time of plate armor were proffesionals
also scale armor was never a popular thing, and it was never cheap

>>65520067
>doesn't absorb any impacts
they werent so much concerned with that
a concussion or bruise can heal, and a bone can be set, but somebody bleeding out from getting cut or their organs getting run through is significantly more serious
and no its not easy to stab through good maille either

>>65520092
i'd say they were about the same, or maille a little cheaper honestly
it takes an artisan and countless years of training to know how to turn a slag of metal into an intricate piece of armor, but anybody with enough wire and a few hand tools can start linking rings by the dozens, including women or children

>>65523403
>Just have wire bro

An armorer workshop in Italy, flanders, etc. would have teams of apprentices drawing wire, producing rings, and assembling sheets of mail but it isn't something happening as any form of cottage industry. Mail for it's uses as voiders, skirts, mail shorts, and the rarer full halberks was a product of massive armor exporting regions alongside every other part of the harness.

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>>65520726
i paid about $500 for one of those swords and its fucking great, what are you on about
the greatest appeal of it at the tine it came out was that it was a very budget friendly handmade sword made to the quality standards of a $1200 bespoke sword, at a time when your only other options were extremely poorly made chinese stuff for <$300
now theres better options because the market has caught up but it was a big deal when it happened

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>>65520667
shad has a doctorate from reddit university, his historical sources are the hobbit and something a guy once said to him at a renaissance fair, and he acts like the entire medieval period was a game of dungeons and dragons
nobody should take him seriously but people unfortunately do
he even tried to build a castle and it would have been cool as hell if he actually tried but failed, but he didnt even do the bare minimum and basically quit on the idea day 1 after a few issues, pic rel is all there is and its a fake facade

>>65523423
depends on the time period though no?

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>>65523437
>Bespoke
>Windlass
Anon you overpayed by approximate $250 for what you received, simple as. Windlass swords weren't "bad" (for $2-300) 15 years ago but we're taking under 5. What back then do you think you're referring to?

You got into the sword market at a bad time where VA went actually boutique and Paul Chen/cas hanwei had it's factory fire but the market hadn't filled the hole they left yet. Matt Easton sold his credibility for the product run and the reality of what it is, a mix of shortcuts (like just deciding the Wakefield hanger doesn't have a langet bar because it'd be hard to manufacture then trying to deboonk that widely held interpretation) and incompetent execution (barely an attempt on the castillion swords furniture to be correct to the original) at the price point of what a few years prior was a sword and scabbard from Valiant Armory or the Albion Squire Line.

Right now Albion Swords has a royal armories sponsored hema sword for $633usd; 80CrV2 steel typeXIII blade made on a CNC machine in Wisconsin instead of in an Indian pot factory. Meanwhile Windlass is selling picrelated for $700 and the royal armories site has their Wakefield hanger at 864dollarydoos. Todd cutler right now has their correct Wakefield sword and scabbard for $640 (ostensibly made in the UK by his staff). It was and continues to be a gyp that should leave a bad taste in your mouth. Nothing new for the budget sword market, DSA somehow still exits, but Easton chose to fall on this sword rather than admit it became a boondoggle.

>>65523554
It'd be a city based guild controlled profession or workshop set up by a court/royal patron in almost any situation someone would have access to mail armor, like all armor. There was a vibrant arms and armor trade even in the "dark ages." Then medieval hill smelters and mining in general is it's own whole thing, which feeds into why mining regions/ports became sword and armor exporters.

>>65523639
i dunno man, i think you're nitpicking it
tod cutler's swords came out a little after i bought mine and in retrospect i would've bought his instead, but it doesnt make me go and think "wow matt easton is such a faggot piece of shit this is garbage"
https://todsworkshop.com/products/medieval-sword-type-14/

>>65523683
another point i should mention which was really important for me at the time is that its a $500 sword with a wood core scabbard, and most decent swords did not come with them at the time

>>65523683
The multiple videos he produced to tell you why every problem with his swords are actually historical and not a result of his over promising (or getting finessed himself which is very possible lol) is why you should go and think "wow matt easton is such a faggot piece of shit"

Out of all the internet sword autist scandals Easton's is the actual scummiest yet he still throws stones.

>>65523711
theres armorers with established businesses that scam people every day by sending them something not as advertised or just not at all sending it out
I've lost $2600 to one that from everything I could tell was completely legitimate and even knew a guy personally who ordered from him and still got fucked
wheres all the uproar for shit like that? atleast matt easton fucking produced something that i received

>>65522790
The books arent canon anymore im afraid

Why does he look like homeless? And armor is supposed to be expensive and highly prized and looked after. You're talking about a society where metalwork was just a dude with a hammer

>>65520667
If you think thats weird, check out reviews of his novel "Shadow of The Conqueror". He's an autistic lolcow now

>>65519978
no. But amongst other things
"Medieval times" spans close to half a millennium, its like asking if that settler in Jamestown and a soldier in Afghanistan had the same equipment, because they're both from America.
Then there's Where? a soldier in Norway's very different to one in Italy.

>>65523522
Shad is a rabid moron, sorry, rabid Mormon, who would be 100% MAGA if he were in the US. he has an entire second youtube channel of culture war bullshit whining about all sorts of trivial shit being "woke" and all that sort of stuff. Hardly what the average "redditor" is like; in fact, the complete opposite.
>>65520667 I know for a fact that Shad has attended three to four HEMA clubs in his local-ish area of Australia, and quit every single one of them after one single class per club. He has never participated in hema in any sort of structured courses, even at a beginner level, because he started pulling shit like arguing with instructors about how he thought stuff should be done (like complaining because as a total beginner he wasn't allowed to run in and start sparring on day one.), or being so winded and out of breath that he wasn't even able to do the warmup sessions for some of the clubs, and complaining about it. (My source for that was one of the HEMA guys heavily involved in the region btw.)
After his failed attempt to take part in doing HEMA, he started doing videos claiming he knows how to fight. Make of that what you will.

>>65523639
>Todd cutler right now has their correct Wakefield sword and scabbard for $640 (ostensibly made in the UK by his staff).
Tod cutler's products are made in India. specifically one of the former Windlass factories in Balawala, Uttarakhand, small parts are riveted together in the UK to qualify for the "made in the UK" label.

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>>65521394
>>65520667
This cuck is your guy?

>>65523667
>which feeds into why mining regions/ports became sword and armor exporters.

bit more complex than that.
in the context of European arms and armour industry, the main centres of production were Passau, Solingen, (both blades) Milan, Augsburg, Innsbruck, (armour) and to a lesser extent, Brescia and Toledo. (mostly blades.)
the only significant port city for armour was Venice, and that was mostly via the manufacture in Brescia and its export through the Venetian Republic.

All of the major players were in fairly specific sites. Easiest way to describe it is like a Venn Diagram - you have fast running water - rivers. you have mineral ore in easily mined locations that can reach those rivers (usually mountainous), and lastly, you have large forest areas capable of land management. when all those areas intersected, like the middle of a venn diagram, that's where the arms industries ended up being established.

the fast running water was used for waterwheels, and power hammers for forging, and similar processes.
They were also used for shipping - first of the raw materials to the foundries, but also for the finished product out into the world. Solingen shipped to the Rhine going all the way to North sea, Passau to the Danube all the way to the Black Sea, and with a short land hop, into the Elbe which went all the way up to the Baltic Sea.
the mining, pretty obvious - the raw ore for smelting. And the part that was essential for all that, the forest, which was coppiced, to produce faster growth, which was harvested for charcoal-burning. Charcoal of course being the primary fuel for smelting and forging well into the 17th-18th C, Coke wasnt really used in europe will the 17th century. (China were using it a long time earlier but it didnt catch on in europe). Coal/coke wasnt economically viable or mechanically viable (too much sulphur makes the iron crumble when hot), well into the 17th or 18th century.
simplified version, but gives you the basics.

>>65524502
The armor tech hasnt advanced much since the bronze age

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>>65524685

>>65524707
Hes right, armors literally just to stop your enemies attack from killing you. Theres no innovation etc.

>>65520726
Hi Shad. Taking a break from ducktaping foam swords together

>>65524779
any ideas? reactive armor like pox-infected babies bound to the armor to explode into the attackers face when struck?

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>>65520055
I mean they had their reasons,
>My great-great grandma left because she didnt want her children to be Saxon sharecroppers, also her husband beat them on the regular so she left for America with her kids.
>My GreatX Uncle saw his father and older brother get the bayonet when they fought the constulbalary over being evicted during the potato famine.
The long and short of it is that serfs were sharecroppers and thats not an easy life, add an extra dollop of violence and misery to the mix and living in a NY tenement seems like an upgrade.

>>65523004
They boiled pitch. They sowed the fields with pitch. This was as valid a defensive tactic as trenches.
Pitch was far superior to burning tar, it stuck to horses and armor and flesh.

>>65520147
>Mostly Mark Twain's fault actually
Nah, Hypenated-Americans are basically defined by their baggage. Especially the Catholics.

>he really hated Southerners and noticed that they romanticized medieval Europe so he basically invented mudcore out of spite.
And he was right to do it; those butthurt aristocrats laid the foundations for the ACW.

>>65525340
I would suggest this as some light reading, its only about 20 pages.

https://www.academia.edu/112926446/The_Legend_of_Hot_Tar_or_Pitch_as_a_Defensive_Weapon

"The Legend of Hot Tar or Pitch as a Defensive Weapon"
Dr Rainer Atzbach
2015, Castles at War : The Danish Castle Research Association "Magt, Borg og Landskab" Interdisciplinary Symposium 2013, Bonn, pp. 119-134

>>65524504
You've never heard of competent men on the wrong side?

>>65524504
Mayby Shad autistic mormon ass isn't that bad in comparison

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>discussing swordtube lolcows
I am forgotten

>>65528981
who cares about a weird emo sword guy from canada
his peak point of happiness in life was probably playing magick the gathering in highschool and the rest of his life has been spent trying to get those times to come back

>>65519978
gambeson obviously

>>65529052
Hes more accomplished than you, cuck

>>65530377
Based. Btfo that freak!

A factor i don't think is given enough consideration is how metal accumulated as a resource, was recyclable and in particular which metals could and couldn't be recast.

I suspect lamelar armour was far cheaper and more widespread then generally believed because it would have been made from recasts and cut downs, which is ultimately why coats of plate became the norm.

So it is stupid or controversial to suspect that this kind of armour was always used as a reinforcement as the materials were available?

Also point out, importance of wool to stop soldiers just freezing to death in the field, importance of waterproof clothing. Oil skins, oiled leather.

It never seems to rain in movies, who wants to take million dollar set equipment out in the rain? Which costume department wants to wash every damn thing because it's got covered in mud. Historically there was a fighting season because nobody wanted to march, do battle, freeze in winter either. But that said, what's often missing from armour is basically their woolen thermals and waterproof clothes.

This guy isn't wearing leather armour that's like his raincoat, it's a tabbard., like a kind of cut down poncho.

>>65530377
Skallagrim is literally a self admitted interracial cuck fetishist.

>>65532736
That somehow invalidates his accomplishments? What have you achieved?

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>>65532135
Cast iron wasn't used in medieval armor.
Lamellar armor isn't the same as a coat of plates and many pieces for the latter were deliberately produced; some being as expensive or more so than plate cuirasses.
>So it is stupid or controversial to suspect that this kind of armour was always used as a reinforcement as the materials were available?
Wdym? There were wide maile collars that were popular into the 16th century similar in the dimensions of the OP pic. But nothing made out of scales.
>>65532151
Nearly all medieval clothing was made out of wool. Linen being the preferred material for undergarments.
>Oil skins, oiled leather.
Wool naturally already comes with fat secreted by the sheep. You can still buy lanolin today to proof your wool products. And then there was a specialised form of processed wool called Loden, which was also valued for its weather resisten properties. But eventually any wool will get soaked through.
>This guy isn't wearing leather armour that's like his raincoat, it's a tabbard.
No it's mediocre fantasy armor. Surcoats and tabards looked very differently.

>>65532920
>That somehow invalidates his accomplishments
Yes?
Is that a serious question?

>What have you achieved?
I've managed to go my whole life without dressing up as a six foot mongoose and encouraging a black man to fuck a woman in front of me?

>>65532920
What accomplishments?

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>>65535612
things you've not done are hardly an accomplishment.
I dont go round bragging that I've never landed on the moon.

are you his wife? are you the person who fucked his wife? no. Who gives a toss what they do in their bedroom. Its not the fucking Saudi Arabian morality police. do you go prying into your neighbours windows at night tutting because the Joneses like oral, and the Smiths are into dressing up in rubber? Who fucking cares.

what kind of sad, pathetic loser obsesses about what some guy on youtube gets up to when its nothing to do with the subject they make videos about.

>>65533820
>Cast iron wasn't used in medieval armor.

more importantly, medieval societies didn't have the technology to melt steel to do casting/recycling. Cast iron as a structural material didnt really come along till the middle of the 18th century, and wsnt used in weapons (outside of shell cases, where cast iron being a brittle, breakable material was an advantage) in any case.

>Nearly all medieval clothing was made out of wool.
>>65532151
there's also the fact that leather was pretty nasty stuff, given how it was processed. It seems it simply wasnt used for clothing.

they did archaeological digs in York in the 70's and 80's, and found thousands of leather peices - belts, shoes, sheaths, all sorts of stuff. And of those thousands, exactly one piece might have been for a piece of clothing. The same pattern is seen in Netherlands, excavations of medieval Dordrecht, in Novgorod in russia, In Dublin, ireland. Tons of leather, no leather clothes.

you really dont get leather as garments till the development of buff coats in the post-medieval era, with different tanning methods.

>>65528981
Him and Schola just have annoying cucky liberal opinions on things and otherwise are just boring or spouting off basic information. Not enough ranting and yelling.

>>65519978
Budget? Anon you were either well off or skinning local animals to make clothes lol. There was no disposable income below the general level of Laird/Lord.
You'd layer boiled leather and if you were really crafty layers of leather pounded with layers of hide glue. Metal? What are you out of your mind?

>>65520188
"bicycle irish"

>>65520055
No, they more projected Britain circa 875 AD to being the same as circa 1381 AD. It was more evolved but the basic relationship existed and transferred (and died in notably) Americas. It was just less Slave-y than it seems.

>>65520069
idk my grandfather described speaking polish anywhere but home in the US as something the family would get pissed about, strangers wouldn't care. So they'd quietly take you home and beat your ass in private for it.
My family's immigrant era was pretty harsh, they about made you tattoo the american flag on your cock.

>>65535632
>things you've not done are hardly an accomplishment
In most company sure, however Skall sets the bar that low.

>>65535632
>are you his wife?
Lmao are you? What kind of supercharged turbo niggerfaggot genuinely goes to bat for self professed cucks. You just rush to the defense of your fellow queer huh, a true homo knight to the end this one. Do you think the Gun owner forum is the place for your "why can't you just let people enjoy sucking dick" attitude you fucking retard? There are boards enough for you fruitcakes.

>>65535671
you have particularly poor reading comprehension when you think "what sort of sad fuck obsesses over what kind of stuff someone else does to that doesn't affect you" is the same as "rushing to the defense of".

Do you think the "Gun owner forum" is the place for YOUR "but they fuck in ways I don't approve of" attitude?
Yeah. you think you're entitled to go on about this shit constantly, but oh, anyone else isn't appropriate right? fuck off, you goddamn hypocrite.

>>65520055
>A big problem is recent American immigrants have projected stories about whatever east of Berlin shithole they crawled out of onto British/American shared history.
I'd argue that a big part of the problem is just that people mentally reduce an entire millennium of history for an entire continent into a single monolith where everything is exactly the same everywhere
there's also the tendency for people to focus primarily on the most sensational bits that are most likely to get written down and remembered (precisely because they were considered unusual enough to be worth documenting at the time), like if people in the year 2600 were to base their entire understanding of the 20th century on the battle of verdun, the spanish flu, the soviet purges, nazi germany, the siege of leningrad, the holocaust, and the khmer rouge
and this is of course before even touching on the fact that some people intentionally misinterpret or twist facts in bad faith for the sake of some ideology or another

>>65535688
You're frantically defending an admitted interracial cuckold furry who has never been in a fight in his entire life. Yes that invalidates anything you say. Yes Skallagrim's lifestyle invalidates anything he says and does. Correct. Sucking dick makes your opinion invalid. Nothing you say could possibly have any weight lmao.

It isn't 2005 anymore, no one's falling for the "just let faggots do what they want" routine, go back to where you came from.

>>65537074
Found the virgin guys

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>>65521370
>Mail is not any more repairable in the field than plate for the VAST majority of people.
Sure you need smith and special tools. But this is small tool, hand pliers, and set of premade rings. That fit into small bag and can be carried by smith on campaign without problems. You don't even need fire.

>>65523004
rather than pitch they did use quickline. what a nightmare would it be to be on the receiving end of it.

>>65535639
>you really dont get leather as garments till the development of buff coats in the post-medieval era, with different tanning methods.
jerkins from slightly earlier were made out of leather quite often too.

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I've narrowed my plan for a personal harness down to 3 different possible kits, what do you guys think?
Regardless of what I choose it will only be finished by at least fall of 2028 so I thought I may as well spend extra for fancier stuff to justify the wait, but I'm also worried about growing/shrinking out of it.

bump

>>65540741
>growing/shrinking out of it
Just get the breastplate stretcher.

>>65523380
why leave the legs so unprotected

>>65535639
>there's also the fact that leather was pretty nasty stuff, given how it was processed.
Definitely. Hides were first soaked in boiled piss, to loosen the hair. Then, after the hair and any residual fat were removed, they were covered with a slurry of dogshit, to enzymatically soften the tissue. You ended up with a horribly stinking slab of material. While you could (eventually) get the stench out from smaller items (shoes, belts, pouches etc.), a coat would continuously reek for a very long time. I had a pair of Merrell sneakers made from traditionally cured Pakistani leather, and they smelled like a dirty barn for nearly two weeks.

>you really dont get leather as garments till the development of buff coats in the post-medieval era, with different tanning methods.
Buff coats weren't regular clothing, they were also armor. Same with earlier leather jerkins and gambesons, they were light armor or work clothing (proto-overalls). People didn't wear them constantly, because they stank (though usually the dung smell was overwritten by the aroma of fish oil used to waterproof the buff coats), were heavy and stiff.
Leather only became proper clothing material after the invention of chromium sulfate.

>>65542601
they are the most expensive part of any kit, including the cuirass
sometimes they'd have knee armor or upper leg armor, but you mostly see full leg armor on cavalry

>>65519978
>>65519988
No.
You would use quilted armor and maybe a metal helmet.
No poor peasant could afford mail.

>>65547115
Are you alive back then?

>>65547835
this is not the clever response you think it is.

It just demonstrates you're ignorant of things like reading, or education.

>>65519978
the show armor was designed to look cool, in the books brynden tully wore just regular unadorned steel armor that was highly practical. The clowns in the show's armor development division decided to make him stick out with the shittiest jester armor they could think up.
Hope this helps.

>>65547855
if you read anything or were educated on the subject you'd know depending on time and place medieval commoners might own plate armor or be required to be furnished with full sets of maille.

Why is retards saying "read" or "education" have done zero reading and are thoroughly uneducated on anything that didn't take place in a videogame?

>>65519978
When in the medieval period? Where in Europe? Who am I, what is my status and finances? If you can answer that we can narrow down from what's available to what you can realistically get. I see that this thread has been sharted by enlightencucks with no real knowledge of medieval history.

>>65547855
Retard

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>>65547888
>medieval commoners might own plate armor
Anon literally wrote
>poor peasant
Where in your mind do you think a "poor peasant," i.e. a slave or a serf family might be wealthy enough to furnish a man with the panoplies of war demanded by their local lord?
Wealthy peasants, free men, yeomen equivalents etc. are the ones who were rich enough to equip someone with proper protection. The rest didn't even go to war because why the hell would you send some useless fucker into battle when he's more good tilling the soil and producing wealth for you instead. If he dies that's one less worker on your land.

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>>65551004
this, peasants didnt really go to war much at all, drafting is a modern idea
levies applied to nobility, who in turn were expected to choose and bring their own professional soldiers (retainers) and supply them accordingly
a noble was only as alive and well as his company was so theres plenty of incentive to give them good gear

What is the best budget battle ready bastard/hand-and-half sword?

>>65552455
Dagger