>Survives against the combined efforts of 5 separate Crusades thrown against them in the middle of Catholic EuropeHow did nobody figure out that you could defeat knights with wagons before this?
>>65534976Hus and Wycliffe were based.t. Catholic
>>65534976But they lost.
>>65535629That's not what the thread is about.
>>65535629Eternal reward in Heaven
>>65534976Because it wasn't the wagons. The wagons were useful as portable field fortifications that required very little time to set up but they were nothing special beyond that. Gunpowder was the bigger issue.
>>65535629Not really. The faction that wanted to wage war to spread hussitism lost to the faction that did not.The next king after the wars ended was a hussite and so was majority of the country until 17th century.
Wooden bawxes
>>65535884>hussite was majority of the country until 17th century.What happened then? Did people just get bored with it?
>>65535908Martin Luthor made it redundant and after various agreements ended overt religious wars it sort of had no more purpose.
>>65535908Battle of White hill, ie. Austrians
>>65535901The COWARDSThe FOOLS
>>65534976>How did nobody figure out that before this?The tech wasn't there yet before this, mate.Literally the moment it popped up it was used like this.
>>65534976Heavy wagons with wide wheel-bases require well-made roads to travel long distances in a timely fashion. Bohemia's attempts at roadmaking until that point was essentially filling old creekbeds with rocks and call it good enough because haycarts could roll over them. Logistics once again defines the conflict.
>>65535908Austrian recatholization. But Hussites who survived and left evolved into todays Moravian Brothers and they are still an active church around the world.
>>65535627The funny thing is, if the church had listened closely to them and adapted accordingly, the reformation probably wouldn't have happened.
>>65534976Wagons needed good roads. Retarded yuropoors cannot into highways.>Muh heckin hitlerino and muh urtobuns!Kraut propaganda. They are a conquered people. All their achievements are ours now. Deal with it.
>>65536359Real Americans are all Germanic or Nordic.
Western European knighthood was at their peak of retardation in the late middle ages. It was basically just "let's charge them headon lmao" and resulted in fucks ups like Nicopolis, Agincourt or this. And they kept doing it.
>>65534976As for why nobody thought of it, well, armies are usually lead by nobles, and what noble would cower behind wooden boxes? They would be mocked as a coward and foolish. But once you get to it, is it really so different from defeating knights with the help of quickly deployed wooden stakes, cheval de frise or sudis? The wagon fort was also presumably a staple of medieval camp life, the trick was that the Hussites knew that they could rely on the crusading army to charge into them no matter how bad the odds looked for them, or how much better just doing anything else would be. After all, refusing an invitation to open battle was grounds for criticism. Add in that they're a crusading army fighting against heretics, and they're guaranteed to attack.
>>65534976the thing people are missing out on it that this was a non-professional force beating a force of professionals.you don't beat the professionals just because you have x or y weapon.you do so by realizing your own limitations and fighting the superior forces in such a way as to deny them exploiting that weakness.in the case of medieval militia/peasant armies they'd be far more likely to route than stand their ground when charged.all medieval victories of footmen against mounted knight share two things. the footmen can't route safely because there a feature behind them that prevents them form getting away for instance the battle of the golden spurs with the Flemish right up against a river.or they had feature or a means to break up the charge like the stakes. preferably they'd have several of those.every time that a footman army fought a mounted force and it didn't have one of those it got crushed.for instance the same Flemish host that won the battle of the golden spurs got absolutely crushed a bit later when they fought the French in an open field.it isn't the credit of this or that feature or bit of kit that won those battles but the commanders that realized it, positioned their armies well, didn't get cocky and refused to let their enemies exploit their weakness.
>>65536596cont.the best modern analogue to this would be the Egyptians during the opening stages of the Yom Kippur war. Egyptian command realized that their ground forces were inferior when it came to maneuverability, combined and complex task or taking initiative. so they drilled the opening moves for months. did their limited offensive to the book. and instead of getting drunk of their victory. rushing headlong into a meeting engagement that the Israeli's would dominate they dug in. when the Israelis counter attacked they ran headlong into the first generation soviet ATGM's. it wasn't the ATGM's that won the day they could have been using AT guns, rocket propelled grenades tank destroyer or even their own armor. it was the proper use of an inferior force in a way that denied their weakness to the enemy.
>>65536482>But once you get to it, is it really so different from defeating knights with the help of quickly deployed wooden stakes, cheval de frise or sudis?I think that's all there is to it, really. Hussites deployed something like 20 men per wagon, so even with a relatively small force of 5000, that's 250 wagons you're bringing devoted to and converted specifically for use as makeshift defensive structures. Unless you specifically have a shitload of wagons and draft animals to pull them lying around for some reason and/or you have a specific need for rapid fortification deployment no one would bother with it.
>>65534976They were Proto-Protestant, or Protostant as I like to say.
>>65536359Remind me, what were american highways like during the Hussite Wars?What are they like today? (Hint: I'd rather drive on european ones. Fucking EASTERN Europe has better roads than like 90% of the US nowadays LMAO.)
>>65536033>>65536359Complete nonsense, wagons didn't just pop into existence in the 15th century.
>>65536019Nobody invented the wagon before this?
>>65537659>Unless you specifically have a shitload of wagons and draft animals to pull them lying around for some reasonThe Battle of the Herrings (1429) involved a completely normal supply train being ambushed. It was 300 wagons.
>>65535908They became protestant
>>65536359Roman roads have lasted longer than anything built in or by America ever
>>65536399>Real Americans are all Germanic or Nordic*Anglo
>>65535908the kings remained catholic (with two exceptions) and in the two hundred years they managed to suppress the protestant majority.but there is a church with the chalice on my street and most streets in the neighborhood are named after prominent hussites, so it's not like they died out
>>65539476Ænglia is in Norþern Germany / Souþern Danemark.Þe Ænglish, Saxons, & Jutes were all from þat same region.
>>65539268Yeah, but that's a dedicated supply train running deliveries to the besieging army at Orleans, no? A normal army wouldn't usually bring along that many wagons, no?
>>65540613I think you'd be surprised.To be fair I don't KNOW myself, but speaking of the Hundred Years War, let's take some of the longbow wanking as fact. Three arrows in the air at any one time at full rate of shooting. Each archer needs a decent sheaf of arrows to accomplish that, and WILL need resupplying through the battle - and of course certainly afterwards.Now consider how many archers are in that army. How many arrow bales alone you're going to need, and that's before you start getting into any other supplies. Even "Marius' Mules" had their limits.
>>65539468The roads in question
>>65536599Wow. The egyptians must have taken a lot of ground as a result of that conflict
>>65539476Anglos have been ruled by Germanics and Nords for hundreds of years.
>>65539468Is it because USA is not as old?
>>65539598>most streets in the neighborhood are named after prominent hussite>living in Žižkovmy condolences
>>65541221
>knights get btfo'd so hard a Japanese rape fetishist makes a manga about it
>>65534976The real question is the human race is ready for Hussite/Juche fusion style?
Knights lost to Muslim warriors
>>65538245>Remind me, what were american highways like during the Hussite Wars?It wasn't the right kind of Americans back then, so it doesn't count and didn't exist.
>>65548396muslims warriors got BTFO eventually and have spent the entire rest of their existence in a constant humiliation ritual.
>>65539468Pretty sure cars fuck roads up more than carts and buggies, fagman.
>>65541214Cool i live a few towns over from there
>>65534976>Catholic Church spend the last century in a schism between Rome and Avignon>Have a council in Konstanz to reunite>be Jan Hus>start chimping out at reunited Church and shit>everyone tells you to chill and suggest you chimp out AFTER the council ends>continues to chimp out>gets burned>Bohemians chimp out>Western Europe's attention is towards controlling this chimpout>thanks to this, the Turks manage to conquer the the Romans and the entire BalkansHussites REALLY deserved the stake and the rope
>>65548692>thanks to this, the Turks manage to conquer the the Romans and the entire Balkans>anyone in western Europe>taking crusading against the Turks seriously>after the disaster at NicopolisAlso Balkanoids deserved it. If you get yourself into the position where Frogs need to travel halfway across the known world to save your ass, you deserve to get your ass subjugated.
>>65548606Definitely not.
>>65548692Hus traveled in good faith under the belief he was given safe passage and would not be harmed. He was burned at the stake. Papists will claim utter supremacy of Christendom and yet their conduct is no better than scheming bandits. What man is to be trusted or what cause is righteous if it can't keep its word? Hus died true to his word, never recanting. You killed a Good man from fear and ignorance.
>>65545013Reminder that flails are based and all "ackshually flails aren't historical" posters get THRESHED.
>>65535635>survives against>did not survive>>65535884Weird cope they were not even close to the majority and most had to flee.
>>65534976Because more often than not infantry heavy medieval army simply dug trenches & put up fences and told knights to come at them bro. See Legnano & Courtrai.As for wagons a lot of people figured that out from Ancient Rome, India, & China. Especially dudes who had to deal with steppeniggers.
>>65550575Why did they charge the ditch backed by walls and pikes? Why didn't they just wait for the pikemans to get sleepy or hungy?
>>65548692>Hussites REALLY deserved the stake and the ropeIt's not the hussities fault, since the middle of the 14th century Czechs did anything in their power to fuck over Bohemia. The most influential, rich and stable state in the region, and in the matter of 5 decades it become the boonies. Hussite wars were just a final act of self immolation.
>>65550588how battles come about can be complex. in a situation where an attacker must overcome an entrenched defender... well, what are the circumstances?most likely the defender has access to water or something (so they don't need to move) and the attacker has limited resources, or limited money, or some other factor that make their commander figure they gotta attack or they gotta give up and disperse.
>>65551008>>65550588In the context of this thread you have defenders who brought a whole bunch of wagons with them, wagons have historically on occasion been used to carry supplies.
>>65551039in that case the defenders stay put, and keep watch at night, and wait for the attackers to attack or wait for them to disperse, at which point you pack up and get where you were trying to get to.the attackers can try to outlast them and wait for them to make the first move, but chances are food and money is limited. so you gamble with an assault or you say fuck this and head out.
>>65551073>in that case the defenders stay put, and keep watch at nightSometimes that is when the Hussites come at you; in at least one battle they broke out of an encirclement by forming the wagons into a mobile siege wall and smashing through the Crusaders lines in the middle of the night.
>>65541221Žižkov dávno není špinavá čtvrť pro chudinu jako v devadesátkách, když teda nepočítám dolní Žižkov zhruba tam kde končí Hartigova.t. Žižkovák
>>65540613The Battle of the Herring was a small convoy! The besieging army at Orleans was 5k men. Compare that to, say, one of the first major battles of the Hussite Wars - the Battle of Vyšehrad, which had 10k men on both sides.
>>65534976It hinges on guns and on the knights being retarded.
>>65550314He was given shelter and passage. He just decided to chimp out and the worst possible moment. Given opportunity to retract and he didn't take the offer.
>>65539468Let's see those roads last one year with heavy trucks using it
>>65554128NTA but>give him free passage and shelter>immediately renege on free passage and shelter because <reasons>Chimp out how, exactly?Not that it matters, because free passage and shelter means exactly what it sounds like. You cannot remove it for any reason. You gave your word.
>>65554156They pulled a ye old fast one on him: no dealings with terrorists (heretics)Less sneaky than the infamous court proceedings of the Muslim/Semite world in general or the romans at their worst. >Trailerparkboys.png
>>65551116the Hussites showed a real knack for using what they got in unexpected ways
>>65534976>Guns>You mostly can't do that.Medieval people weren't stupid. For the most part if you park in a friend with a bunch of fortifications they'll literally just go around you and burn/steal your shit.Also, central European knights were kind of retarded and didn't dismount much so shit like this was harder for them to deal with. If a bunch of bongs tried to revolt and make a wagon fort without guns, they'd get shot up, and then rolled over by dismounted knights who were actually accustomed to mass combat on foot. I can tell you as someone who has plate armor, I wouldn't find the wagons themselves particularly intimidating without the threat of gunfire.
>>65550575>>65550588>>65551008>>65551039>>65551073I'm not sure what the illustration is based on but Legnano did not feature an entrenchment and palisade around the caroccio (the wagon with the standard for the Lombards.
>>65554253Knights (as a heavy armored cavalry) were on their way out, anyway. Bows, crossbows and guns together with pikes made heavy cavalry less and less viable.You can track this through all kinds of (in)famous battles from Crecy to Agincourt to Pavia, just to throw out a few well-known names.Anotehr factor in the region are the Habsburg, Imperial and Hungarian politcs.
