Such an impressive amount of accomplishments
It really was an incredible crucible of knowledge and skill back then. Ever since operation paperclip their best and brightest get brain drained overseas, so you wont see the leaps and bounds of the 40s and earlier coming out of Germany again.
7.92×33mmPistolenpatrone M43Pistolen-Munition M43
>>65547124As fucked up as the nazis were they really did change warfare forever
>>65547268Even Russian and Ukrainian love STG-44
>>65547100Indeed.
>>65547268I'd say it was less the Nazis and more the response to them that significantly changed warfare. It's hard to ignore the B29 and Essex shaped elephants in the room
>>65547100piece of shit that wore out quickly
>>65547100MG34/42 > STG44 when it comes to innovation.Don't get me wrong the STG did a lot to codify what an assault rifle should be and what it should look like. But nearly everyone had been experimenting with the idea for a while at that point and some arguable cases had already been fielded. But nobody was even close to what the nazis were cooking when they invented the GPMG
>>65547399You're not wrong about the significance of those two building and design programmes but those were really late 1930s efforts coming to fruition shortly before WW2 ended, so the war certainly influenced them but they were absolutely not a response to the events of the war.>>65547100Yeah, it's weird how tehy got to a shape and setup for a weapon that has not changed in a major way.To somebody who has no clue about firearms, a pic of a StG-44 with a ZF-1 is teh same as any modern assault rifle with an optic of your choice mounted.Sure, modern ergonomics are better, you get a laser and a light etc., the ammo is probably a bit better than 8mmkurz and so on.But the basics are the same.Except bullpubs, of course. But those do not count.
>>65547422>But nobody was even close to what the nazis were cooking when they invented the GPMGIt's really a six of one, half dozen of teh other thing.Everyone was slowly moving towards a GPMG and personal self loading, rapid fire weapon.The US went for the Garand, the Soviets equipped a sizeable portion of their infantry with PPsh SMGs (and introduced the SVT)Everyone's MGs went from HMG only to a more mobile LMG during ww1, or in the decade after. (Chauchat, later the Bren, 'light'version of the Maxim)The MG34 and 42 and then the StG were just the first time this all came together in the form that has persisted to this day.
I feel like older rifles were lighter, more accurate and shot further.
>>65547446>The US went for the GarandAllowing the Garand's full-power-rifle paradigm to become institutionalized after WWII, culminating in the M14 and 7.62 NATO as the general-purpose infantry standard instead of transitioning decades earlier to an intermediate cartridge, was tragic
>>65547474I feel like your post is stupid, inaccurate, and has no basis in fact
>>65547485ur a nigger lol
>>65547509>Springfield Armory's carefully measured response to the FAL trials
>>65547518correct, and they were righteous for it
>>65547485No, it really wasn't. We established a very good rifle round as standard within NATO and frankly the MGs are the most important guns in any army on a tactical level. Could you imagine how gimped we'd all be if we were stuck with a 280 brit or 30 carbine GPMG? Or even worse, every nation fielding their own MGs in their own caliber and the absolute logistical headache that entails. Moreover the switch to 7.62 NATO opened the door for us adopt a not terrible LMG (I love the 1919A6 and the BAR but they're awful LMGs). Moreover we already had 30 carbine in service, which for all intents and purposes is an intermediate round as it has way more in common with 7.92 midget than any other cartridge from the war
>>65547422Apples and oranges comparison.
>>65547485Kept us from getting stuck with a crappy pre-SCHV nothingmaster caliber and gave us a great, useful compact full power rifle round.Sure, it was stupid but it worked out in the end
>>65547422I'm inclined to agree. I mean the STG has a post war lineage through the STG-45 and eventually the HK roller delayed guns but there's no country that straight up made 1:1 copies or rechambered old STGs. Meanwhile the MG42 has tons of direct successors that you can just glance at and go "yep that's an MG42 clone"
>>65547608>STG has a post war lineage through the STG-45No
>>65547587>Moreover the switch to 7.62 NATO opened the door for us adopt a not terrible LMGWhich LMG was that exactly?
>>65547627The M60 isn't that bad, most of the horror stories come from decades later when the guns were more worn down than your mother
>>65547635The M60 shouldn't even existThe FN MAG was RIGHT THERE
>>65547399They made the first ballistic missile. The V2 is a beauty.
>>65547638Fuck you, we're not buying Belgian like all those homosexual, war losing Europissers. We're making our own LMG, with blackjack and hookers
>>65547644It was a larger copy of Goddard's design. Until the FBI stepped in VonBraun even corresponded with Goddard to trouble shoot it.
>>65547422>the STG did a lot to codify what an assault rifle should bebro this is the first of its kind. Its revolutionary.
>>65547657Not even the first German one.
>>65547662yes it is. The stg 44 is the worlds first modern assault rifle.
>>65547268>literally had to make up the term assault rifle to bamboozle Hitler into got gutting the project
>>65547100Beyond the overall conceptual leap forward of what an infantry fighting rifle could be, the technology in metallurgy and stamping in the Stg 44 is really impressive for the time. The Russians had trouble with stamped AK relievers for a couple of years, after all and those things were less complicated.
>>65548070That's not what happened.
>>65547662>>65547666Technically speaking, there were several earlier development models that ran under the MKB and MP designations.MachinenKarabiner and MachinenPistole, these were the ones Hitler did not like because he thought having an automatic gun would cause soldiers to seek cover and shoot instead of charging.Which is fucking idiotic, everyone knew by 1918 that an SMG (MP in German parlance) was ideal for close combat.>>65548070They did this one simple trick and suddenly der Fuhrer liked it.
The main advances from the Sturmgewehr were in doctrine, not weapon building itself. Post-WW studies done in the states concluded that building around the assault rifle is the way of the future.
>>65547100desperation may not be an aphrodisiac but it can be an accelerant
>>65548611>desperationIt's a 1942/43 development program, nobody was desperate at that time.
>>65548515>m14 happened>then m7Now xm8 in the works because m7 couldn't do what the m4 does. Shit is cyclic.
>>65547610>H&K doesn't exist
>>65547124Sadly trueOur own fault though, germany is just calcified and resigned. Only the right still has a positive vision of germany, but that one is insufficiently steeped in reason, to put it mildly.
reminder the designers wanted a longer slightly slimmer cartridge but the ammo factories would take too long to retool so the kurz round was the compromise. they actually wanted something very similar to 5.56
>>65549029>It's a 1942/43 development program, nobody was desperate at that time.It's not the development program that was desperate, it was rushing its deployment into the war. The Allies had a ton of prototype weapons too including select fire carbines, larger tanks, helicopters, jet fighters and so on but most of them had no or very limited deployments because rushing a prototype or new weapon to the field can cause... well all the problems German wonder weapons are famous for.They built a half million STG-44's but they never took off and the Soviets ended capturing warehouses full of them, untouched. Turns out trying to introduce an all new rifle cartridge into the supply chain during a massive war is hard. They would have probably been better off building more G43 rifles or MP 40's not because they are better weapons but because they used the ammunition already circulating.
>>65547124Germany heavily invested into research already in late 19th century. Bunch of nobel prizes for things like chemistry were won by german scientists. Without them germany would have lost way earlier in ww1 as they found dozens of substitutes for key ressources. No wonder germany believed science to pull them through in ww2, what else could they bet on.And stuff hasn't changed that much. Germany is still huge in pharma, chemistry, engineering. Just cause its not big headline things doesn't mean there is no innovation. There are tons of small companies that are world leader for some random small part all over the place. >>65549196Best cure against right sentiments is a right goverment. Just look at the US.
>>65549542Like so many WW2 nazi Germany designs these things were started in 1941 or 1942 when it became obvious that the current tanks/planes/AT guns/you fucking name it were no longer adequate, and then ended up being introduced into mass production in 43 and 44 when things started going to shit for them.In a way, tehy just continued as previously decided, and the desperation designs were done by other companies.Also, the Soviets captured the entire production line for StG-44s IIRC, looted it and ended up selling it to somebody in Africa.Italy also tried switching to a new cartirdge in WW2, and it ended up being a mess.France dodged thet bullet (heh) by surrendering, but they were just about ready to switch from 8mm Lebel, too.
>>65549542>>65549576StG 44s are still in use by the tens of thousands in Africa and across the "near east" and the ammunition is still being manufactured along with stashes of (rifles themselves and) old German production.G43 turned out to be a mediocre rifle. MP 40 isn't a rifle.
>>65549706>StG 44s are still in use by the tens of thousands in Africa and across the "near east" Way to miss the point entirely. No one is saying the rifle isn't a good idea conceptually, just that during the war was the wrong time to try and put it into service.>G43 turned out to be a mediocre rifle. MP 40 isn't a rifle.Better a mediocre rifle or submachine gun with ammo than an amazing rifle sitting in an armory because there is no consistent and reliable flow of ammunition available.
>>65549755checked, wrongG43s and MP 40s aren't used in 2026StG 44s are
>>65549706I doubt they're using any WW2 era German ammo, that stuff was mostly steel case, externally lacquered, and had a penchant for corroding from the inside, out due to the propellant. There was a lot of Czech made stuff cranked out postwar that looks like WW2 German but was properly manufactured, as well as some E. German mfg.If they're shooting much of anythign though, it's probably the Yugo made stuff.
>>65548515>Post-WW studies done in the states concluded that building around the assault rifle is the way of the future.And yet it took the US 24 to actually make an assault rifle the standard service rifle
>>6555041324 years*
>>65548070literal fuddlore
>>65550413It took Germany 50 years.
>>655475877.62x51 is down grade of the .30-06 though
>>65547100>Such an impressive amount of accomplishments>Countries adopting STG44 after WWII?>..>...?*crickets*
>>65550413M16 aren't chambered in fat and slow 7.62 round.
>>65550460Yes, 24 years to adopt the M16 as standard
>>65550506Who did adopt STG44 or 7.62x33?
>>65547124Don't forget the Soviets taking them as well
>>65547100Not really. In the case of the assault rifle they were the first nation to get there, but they weren't the only nation working on the concept.Actual, true German innovations would have been things like ballistic missiles, guided missiles, and submarine design. Even then these weren't unknown concepts, they just weren't priorities. Arguably spending time and effort working on these projects hurt the German war effort.
>>65547485Fucking retard, 7.62x51mm is objectively THE perfect rifle round. Full auto is a fucking meme.
>>65547434I want that Famas.
>>65550459see ---- >>65549706 + >>65549813(it wasn't going to have continued to be manufactured after 1945, itself, because in the next decade many other "assault rifles" and """"""intermediate""""" cartridges would be newly developted)
>>65549563>Best cure against right sentiments is a right goverment. Just look at the US.I'd rather live in a white shithole than a muslim/african shithole, thank you very much.
>>65550735>THE perfectIt's a good round but wouldn't call it that
>innovate
>>65547400checked, they're still in use 2026
