Turns out, the news about the death of the tank were greatly exaggerated, the modern tank is a chonky boi that just shrugs off everything you throw at it and is still one the most mobile assets at the tactical level, the drone that was supposed to be its natural predator, is its best ally, providing recon and full 360 security at all times, removing the blindspots tanks famously used to have.https://files.catbox.moe/vou9ts.mp4
There are no drone countermeasures being used. anti tank retards only have half the story
>>65555064The people that say that tank is dead would have said the plane is dead when SAMs entered service.You build countermeasures because being able to 1 hit kill a MBT or throw HE 5km is still very useful.Right now tanks effectiveness in Ukraine is drastically reduced because the up armouring reduces recon, traverse and mobilitybut we'll see hard kill drone counters on them within a decade.
It's in dronefags' best interest to downplay tanks because an armored push is one of the few ways to reliably squish a drone operator.
>>65555076>within a decade.We saw vatniks test their arena APS on various T-72s a month ago. It achieved basically nothing. Once the APS ran out of juice that was it.
>>65555064I think the tank in its current form needs a big-think when it comes to top attack and cheap guided munitionsHowever, it looks like the assault gun is back
>>65555064RETVRN TO SAINT-CHAMOND
>>65555084Yeah, that's why I'm saying a decade until it's a purpose made anti-drone and not an existing APS with software updates.
>>65555103Nah, APS is a dead end. The future of anti-drone warfare is anti-drone drones operating their own swarm of dedicated anti-anti-drone micro-drones so other drones can't counter-drone them.
>>65555117APS will launch micro drones from the tank to counter threats, it will use visual identification instead of radar.
>>65555117>Nah, APS is a dead end.If you're retarded, yes. APS was in development way before FPV drones were a spec in the eye of any zegroid for good reason.
>>65555117I never said the solution was APS, I think a CROWs type system working as a CWIS will be the first practical system but micro-drones could also be an option.
>>65555126It is. The magazine depth and cost is astronomical compared to cheap FVP drones. Arena costs anywhere between a quarter to a million. Trophy also costs around half a million.>>65555127>CROWs type system working as a CWISThat would be more feasible.
>>65555139>It is. The magazine depth and cost is astronomical compared to cheap FVP drones.Cost will get cheaper as developed, and FPV drones aren't the only threat on the battlefield that needs countering. It is particurally accuate for russia-ukraine but there's plenty of conflict zones in the world still where the #1 threat to a tank is an RPG from a dude waiting in a ditch.
>>65555143>accuateacute, even.
>>65555064>chonky boiWhat the fuck happened to this board? Why are people talking like Redditards? >inb4 its just the british pig fag followers invading bc tanks or some shit
>>65555143>Cost will get cheaper as developedPerhaps, but it is extremely unlikely it will ever trade favorably with an FPV in the $500-$1200 range.>#1 threat to a tank is an RPGMaybe to a rusted out T-55 or T-72M but RPG-7s stopped being a problem since the 80s.
>>65555151>british pig fagYou means the bloke who fellate cuckllenger 2 so hard even after we have confirmed pictures of cuckllenger remains after getting blasted in ukraine??Lol, what a fag.
>>65555076IT'S THE COST YOU FUCKING LUDDITE. You can stick 1000 SAMs on a battleship but then it costs more to defend the ship than its offensive utility. YOU FIXATE ON FLYING DRONES when the real issue IS UNMANNMED WARFARE YOU DUMB CAVALRY HORSE FUCKER. Drones now fly, crawl, run, swim and probably burrow too. YOU CANNOT UPARMOR AND DEFEND A MANNED VEHICLE from such multidimensional attack AT A SENSIBLE COST OF MONEY, WEIGHT AND POWER. You also have to factor in the COST OF DEADVHUMAN CREW IN TERMS OF DOLLARS, TIME TO TRAIN AND MORALE PENALTY. YOU DUMBASS COCKSUCKING OSTRICTH WITH YOUR HEAD DOWN YOUR ANUS. Wake up and smell the revolution. War has changed.
>>65555224just make an unmanned tank
>>65555163>but RPG-7sare you so autistic that you can't see I meant shoulder launched rockets in general? if someone says bazooka do you always start talking about the WW2 'zook?
>>65555224In all that seethe, have you once considered the cost of me and the boys playing football with your moms head because you put all your eggs in the unmanned basket, so we just drowned out your signal with white noise and drove up to your front door? If everything you field relies on a clean signal or an easily trackable fibre optic cable, all it takes is a sunspot to spread your cheeks like some butter.
>>65555224>ou also have to factor in the COST OF DEADVHUMAN CREWanon, this might shock you, but they do that already.
>>65555224but what if we put a spinny wire on it to bat them awaymotors and wires are cheap
>>65555232Then use a more general term next time, you illiterate fuckwad.
>>65555163>RPG-7s stopped being a problem since the 80s.achieved mobility kills against abrams in Iraq and Afghanistan, and did fine against T-72 in the 90s
>>65555224Unmanned tankhttps://xenonauts.fandom.com/wiki/Scimitar
>>65555163>>65555263RPG-7s in 202X are a waste of a warhead because an FPV can use the same munition to actually kill a tank instead of inconvenience it. It's why you hardly see them being used by anyone on either side of Ukraine.
>>65555304Ambushes still exist outside of Ukraine's stagnant front anon.Being able to not only disable a vehicle but machinegun people that bail out is way better than just killing the vehicle.
>>65555084Slavs are gay useless shit without Anglo-Saxons propping them up, I wouldn't read too much into it.
>>65555126Being in development for a long time doesn't automatically make something good.
>>65555092>>65555088Maybe the tank of the future if a turretless starship?Think about it. Big gun for lobbing HE at fortified positions from up close that can also fire ATGMs in case he runs into any enemy armor.
Tank v tank: use gunTank v infantry: use coaxTank v ATGM: use APSTank v low flying helicopter or drone: use SAMTank v loitering drone: use anti-drone droneTank v kamikaze drone: use laser, microwave and CIWS-type machinegunA tank is gonna need to be a 100+ behemoth to be armored enough to absorb hits, carry a counter to everything and enough ammo to make it last, and also plow mines and breach obstacles. This can only happen with full on portable reactors. Land battleships are here.
>>65555374Maybe something like a shorty 155mm SPG mixed in with a heavy, double shelled armour design to try and keep shaped charges off the meaty, burny and exploding parts.In terms of enemy armour, the use of combined arms with some close-in drone oversight for the immediate area, something higher up for a bigger battlespace overview and then just commit dedicated assets to pop anything that threatens it. Could be dismounts and FPV's to get rid of enemy infantry, artillery, weapons teams for anti-armour or a bit of dual-purpose ground strike aircraft or drones overhead with missiles.Lots of possibilities, in some ways its a pretty specialist vehicle but it might be a ready solution for shorter range, protected indirect and direct fire support
What are the technical hurdles for unmanned, remotely operated tanks?
>>65555384Mostly signals to hop out of jamming, some kind of autoloader, bandwidth for high def, low latency equipment and the control mechanism for the vehicle itselfAll something that can be done, but it'd be easier to do it all from a blank sheet rather than adapting existing stuff, which might be cheaper initially but sometimes means you're not getting the most out of something never intended for a purpose.
>>65555117>anti-drone drones operating their own swarm of dedicated anti-anti-drone micro-drones So... APS but needlessly complex and expensive? No.
>>65555384Mainly jamming or damage to physical cables. Everything else has been solved for decades.
I wonder if fiber-optic drones could be used to ensure wired communication for unmanned vehicles.
>>65555384You could disable it by jamming it or simply destroying the antenna, or whatever they use to send and receive signals, which in turn would make it easy for the enemy to capture it mostly intact.
>>65555064>Adding makeshift armor that makes tank far more survivable in the drone era.Overweight western tank (like challenger 2) could never, lmao.
>>65555428The second turtle is so much larger than the first one it's like a western tank. Most likely a Leopard 2 though.
>>65555224>le costnigger going again>l-l-l-le tank is le battleshipjust admit you're a midwit who experienced his first war and jumped the gun on drones obsoleting everything because it made you feel clever and ahead of the curve.drones are cheap, cheap drones get cheap counters, those counters are being worked on right now, warfare will continue to evolve beyond the momentary frame of time where drones were not being adapted to yet and you felt really smart.
>>65555084>we saw vatniks test an already bad APS with very limited charges in any direction fail>an APS that was never even specifically designed against drones in the first placeyeah, you're retarded.
>>65555428retard-san, soviet tanks were already far more overweight than any western one by the time they started being forced to slap ERA on all of them, that's only gotten worse now.
>>65555447>retard-sanSoviet tank = +- 50 TonWestern tank (like Challenger 2) = +- 65 TonWho is the retard now??
>>65555310Stock Abrams tank have no protection against RPG-7VM warhead tied to FPV drone.
>>65555453I get we have talked about Ukraine a lot of the last 4 years but don't make the classic mistake of thinking every war is going to be Ukriane.If either side had air superiority you would see EW planes locating RC drone teams, still the most common drone by far, and marking them for air strikes.
>>65555458>RC drone teamsNTA, but can they locate every drone teams in a wide ass front?
>>65555451>western tank built for that weight, has way more engine power>soviet tanks were already struggling with just the 90's add-on ERAthank you for proving my point for me, it's not about absolute weight, retard-san.
>>65555460They can locate every RC drone team.
>>65555458Well obviously not every war is going to be Ukraine.Some wars are going to be Iran instead.
>>65555240Drones no longer need to talk to anything. You can pre-load a map, target, relative positioning from a single network ping, and there is nothing to "jam".
>>65555240>dude just mount a 200kW barrage jammer on the tank
>>65555465Russian tank (T-90M) literally have more Power to weight ratio compared to Chellenger 2, you stupid nigger.
>>65555468my counter to that would be too simply use transmitter chains and spoofers for the radio controls and/or mobile drone born signal transmitters. you would be wasting all of your jdams on 40usd transmitters that are placed randomly in the field while not hitting a single actual drone pilot.
>>65555627they winning air strike move against fpv drones would be to strike the supply trucks that bring them to the front. going for thousands of faint em-signals that pop up all over the place and only last 10mins is a fools erand.
>>65555550May we see them in field usage?
>>65555224You detract from your own argument by sounding like a bitch.
Who got it?>>65555555
>>65555631I am not going to spoonfeed you, petukh. But there are multiple instance of T-90M being equipped with improvised turtle armor that is so heavy it will make chellenger 2 transmision hang themself if it is ever equiped to chellenger 2.I believe i have seen one in /chug/.
>>65555084That's because T-72s are complete dogshit and the Russians are retarded
>>65555648Jewish meekava with trophy didn't fare much better either.
>>65555127>a CROWs type system working as a CWISthis
>>65555651Just one fpv drone will be enough to kill it.
>>65555655What it it were on an MBT with other APS?
>>65555327Right now these slavs like ukranians have handed you your ass in any exercise involving experienced drone operators as opposing force vs standard western armor doctrine. So hard it is not even funny>inb4 we meant to lose multiple times in a rowYes that is it. Keep coping all the way to getting slaughtered in real drone war. You can always run back behind the oceans with your tail between your legs if things get too nasty
>>65555660Like what?
>>65555645>immediately starts thinking about having gay sex with his opponent Why are you a fag zigger?
>>65555661NTA, Ukraine and Russia are the undesputed experts is drone warfare and the rest of the world is being too slow to intergrate them at the platoon level.That said the main reason is drone warfare is changing so fast that if you dropped $20b to copy what Ukraine was doing in 2023 you would have to throw that all in the bin today.Everyone is waiting for the state of drone warfare to stabilize before spending big enough to arm a military with them.Personally I wish were were giving platoons Mavics and 9" FPVs today just to let them train with them and learn some tactics but it's too early to field them at full scale in peacetime.We also need to get our shit together with domestic motor and flight controller production aiming for ~$500 per unit.
>>65555668>No argumentConcession accepted, pidor.
>>65555064I really like this guy's posts on his tank concepts. https://x.com/7N39AP/status/2105657900341579988
>>65555064>the death of the tank were greatly exaggeratedYeah,shooting few rounds at a target with less than 20 m range and then running back with their tail between their leg is totally usefull and not some ukraine propaganda to raise tanker morale. *Sigh* How low /k/ have fallen.
>>65555645>I am not going to spoonfeed you, petukh.Translation: There is no info, there is no real tank, there is just the usual zigger lies.>there are multiple instance of T-90M being equipped with improvised turtle armorshow them, or fuck off>I believe i have seen one in /chug/.show them, or fuck off to your containment board with the other browns
>>65555645Do you have any saved WEBMs or threads of turtle T90Ms dated between 2025 to now?How many T90Ms have been deployed? How many lost?Does Russia have T90Ms or are they still sending out retrofitted T72s with gimped T90 optics packages due to supply shortages?
>>65555550and other fantasies you can tell yourself LMAO.maybe when it's not caked in ERA shit and then on top of it all the scrap metal ziggers are welding to it these days.
>>65555645i saw this zigger die in /chug/
>>65555834The ERA tiles don't add much weight because most of them are empty.
>>65555836qrd?
>>65555758Mostly, Russia just uses turtled-up T-72s. And T-62s, too.>How many T90Ms have been deployed? How many lost?Russia claimed 217 in service, 200 in storage in January '22.Oryx confirms 218 T-90s lost.Russia also claimed hundreds of T-90Ms would be newly produced. As in, 250 per year starting in 2023.But the 'new production' T-90M since 2022 are likely all old T-72 hulls, with new welded turrets and chinese electronics/optics.MAYBE they have newer transmissions. We have mutliple videos of the hulls being completely stripped, engines overhauled, etc. Also, the engine is still the same old V-2, even though it's now turbocharged.However: We have not seen those 'new' T-90s being used, and lost, in Ukraine. So either they don't exist, or Russia is actually re-constituting the tank formations they lost early in the war. Somewhere, in a place the OSINT people have not yet found.Yeah.If you want my half-educated, half wild-assed guess:Russia lost almost all their in-service T-90s, pulled everything they had from storage, and then made a few 'new' T-90s with existing turrets and guns, refurbed hulls, and is now making a few dozen of them a year because they can't make new turrets and main guns fast enough.This should leave the T-90 inventory at around the same active number as in 2022, or slightly above.200 to 300.And they probably hold them in reserve, as a fire brigade to be used when the front collapses.
>>65555758>T90Ms or are they still sending out retrofitted T72sThe T-90M is in of itself a retrofitted T-72.
>>65555862Have they actually made a single new hull since the soviet onion went belly up?
>>65555881Of course they have, fggot.Welding some meta together to make new hull wont be hard, especially for russia. The country that have made tank since before ww2.
>>65555852Same as the last time it was posted, which thread is still up on the board I believe.
>>65555862>front collapsesIt is never going to happen tough. I guess those T-90M is only going to be collecting dust.
>>65555852/chug/ user goes schizo and gets shot for putin.
>>65555886Anon what do you thing the 72 in T-72 means?Russia is a fucking joke but lying just makes you look stupid.
>>65555890>what do you thing the 72 in T-72 meansThe year that hull design is revealed?
>>65555886Might we see them?
>>65555897Very good, now what year did WW2 end?
>>65555862>Russia is actually re-constituting the tank formations they lost early in the war. Somewhere, in a place the OSINT people have not yet found.This cope is 4 years old. I want a new cope.
>>65555907NTA but 1974.
>>65555907It never ended lol
>>65555909I miss those threads>Russia is just sending trash first>the good stuff is coming any day nowIn week one it was plausable because Ukraine had a shitload of ATGMs so putting T-72s on point does make sense if you don't value life but by week 3 if they existed it would have been time to send them.
>>65555917Those were fun times. VDV sea drops need to make a comeback too.
>>65555917I think it's safe to say that Russia is putting literally everything they have on the front (donkeys and drunks).
>>65555952At least the donkeys are probably mostly sober
>>65555890It doesn't matter my nigger. T-72 factory is in russia, they have all the equipment , resourecs, and the willingness to make new T-72 hull.
>>65556073okay can we see one
>>65555460How many US troops were bagged by ISIS drone operators in Iraq and Syria?None? Strange that, I wonder why...
>>65555645Uh oh, ziggy meltyHave homosex in hell faggot
Its really obvious its one not just for the slang but randomly bitching about british stuff out of nowhere, they've got the uk on the brain.
>>65556166Probably because they were using consumer drones with unencrypted controllers, which means that anyone can kill the drone by broadcasting a Disarm command on the same frequency. These days it's quite simple to reflash a consumer drone to use encrypted controls, so that trick doesn't work anymore.
>>65555662What do you mean>Like what?Like an MBT
>>65555887couldn't find it so, but >>65555889 is good enough of an explanation. first I heard of a american cum/chug/ger going full retard and getting shot for it.
>>65556203pretty sure he walked up to a military base and asked the guard at the gate to surrender to him along with the other base personnel or he would stab him.naturally this went about as well as you expect.
>>65556213>>65556203>pretty sure he walked up to a military base and asked the guard at the gate to surrender to him along with the other base personnel or he would stab himClearly he was filled by the confidence of father russia.
>>65555163>Perhaps, but it is extremely unlikely it will ever trade favorably with an FPV in the $500-$1200 range.It doesn't need to 'trade favorably', it needs to do it's job and protect the tank so it does its mission. The west can afford some very slightly lopsided cash exchanges against their enemies, particurally since, again, traditional APS does much better (or does anything at all compared to nothing) against a number of munitions that interceptor drones cannot do anything about.They are complementary systems, not replacements.
>>65555250It is a general term in the modern day, particurally since there's more RPG systems than the RPG-7. They're on what, 23 by now?
>>65556223holy shit this guy might have been the schizo zigger czech, now I have to find the full video.
>>65555952>>65556057Surprised there hasn't been any donkey rape videos, to be honest. Maybe they are saving those for after the mobilization.
>>65555281Based game
>>65556223how is a car like that road legal?
>>65555281>>65556345It’s a OK game, very annoying to do ground missions in.>land>aliens rape you and your inexperienced soldiers die a couple turns in>especially on more difficult missions later on, god forbid a alien base near you.>end up constantly save scumming/retrying until you finish the mission. Even normal difficulty is hard, do I just have to go fully into armor early on then focus on better interceptors and etc? The shield guys are alright as grenadiers I guess, but I have little opportunity to use the assault rifle or shotgun half of the time.
>>65556374Rearviews obstructed so it probably isn't.
>>65556384>Even normal difficulty is hard,I've found playing it slow is the best way to go. Position, move up without exposing yourself to any new angles, pop around and initiate, use your pre-positioned soldiers to fire, or since you've ideally put them in a good position they can swiftly advance.
>>65556384>>aliens rape you and your inexperienced soldiers die a couple turns inOG XCOM was like that, at the start of the game you don't expect your teams to take less than 80% casualties on successful missions and you have to plan on failing a bunch of mission with full wipes and have a roster of teams of higher and lower priority with sacrificial meat in the roster at all times.They're true to the spirit of the genre I guess.
>>65555103>a purpose made anti-drone and not an existing APS with software updates.>>65555117>APS is a dead endUkies have a domestic APS they designed to defeat FPVs, it apparently has about a 50% success rate and is in use in the field.
NoelReports just had an interesting post on EW that showed Ukies using EW to either jam or spoof control signals while intercepting the cam feed and identifying when it was attacking their forces.https://t.me/noel_reports/53461Their screens are mostly censored of course but this is a pretty rare sighting of EW operators in action.This is the first 30s only, the original is in the post. Sound doesn't really matter but the full file was over the board limits on mp4s.
>>65556610By design, all analog cameras are compatible with all analog goggles, and the transmitter transmits in all directions without any encryption so if you have a receiver you can just scan through the channels until you pick something up. I believe Walksnail are the only commercial goggles that use an encrypted signal to protect against interception.Also by design, standard ELRS doesn't use any encryption or authentication, meaning it takes very minimal equipment to hijack the signal and steal your drone. The was an intentional choice by the developers to stop people from using it as a weapon, but you can easily update your transmitter to use PrivacyLRS to prevent spoofing.
>>65555224Everyone is using tanks fine, if anything now it makes sense more than ever to use tanks as they are about the only military unit capable to advance and occupy land without getting immediately pasted by FPVs, consider some turtle tanks literally took dozens of drones to neutralize, furthermor, the current tribal round in Holy Land shows despite heavy use of drones by Hezbollah the IDF has managed to advance into enemy territory, with Merkavas showing to be more survibable than the T series.
