>haha le transmission>haha le engine>haha le poor armour quality>haha fuel consumptionNormies parroting this 24/7 legitimised those "pulled out of the ass" facts.If German tanks were so unreliable they wouldn't have been as feared by everyone and praised by everyone for how advanced they wetey.Normies genuinely think that all tiger and panther tanks were bunkers basically because of the>le transmission memeThey were good, worse in the latter parts of the war but not obsolete and as unreliable as all the retards claimAlso please post the>IT'S A FUCKING TIGER RUUUUNmeme, its obligatory
>>65558003>They were good, worse in the latter parts of the war but not obsolete and as unreliable as all the retards claimNo, the panther's was objectively shit.
>>65558353It wasn't shit at all, in fact it was so good it was used by France a long time after ww2 ended despite them having the option to switch over to other tanks
>>65558003if german tanks were so good then why did they lose?checkmate wehraboo
>>65558407> it was so good it was used by France a long time after ww2 ended despite them having the option to switch over to other tanksEnough about the Ha-Go.
>>65558407>It wasn't shit at all>>65543861>The operational strength report for the I.Abtelung/Panzer-Regiment 2 for 18 October 1943 revealed 26 operational Panthers, 39 in need of repair, and 6 total writeoffs, for a total of 71 Panthers. The average daily operational strength of the Abteilung from 9 to 19 October was 22 Panthers
>another pointless wehraboo thread
>>65558454Something must have blown up in Puccia.
here you go fucktard
>>65558003>They were goodThe Panthers transmission was never good. When you have to issue standing orders to never use the on-paper neutral steer because it risks breaking the final drive every time, your design is flawed.
>>65558407LMAO. The French ditched the Panther as quickly as they possibly could with the need to wholly rebuild their own arms industry post-war. And the units that were stuck with them until that point utterly detested it for the mass breakdowns that happened every single time they did a roadmarch. Chief culprits being the final drive - which the French found to have an average lifespan of less than 200km - and the engine.
>>65558469Someone in a different thread mentioned multiple explosions/drones hit Moldova, maybe that's it?
>one king tiger kills of 39 soviet tanks on his own>wittman just bum rushes the alies and scores 15 tank kills on his own>...
>>65558682>kills of 39 soviet tanks on his ownProofs?
>>65558574>the final driveturns out the planetary gearing for the tiger's final drive was a good idea. whodathunk
>>65558003>P3 and P4 turret ring difference of only six inchesWas the P4 really that tight inside where they couldnt stuff a 75mm inside the P3?
>>65558682>ACK! Tactical advantage of parking your tiger out in the open like a retard?
>>65558914No. There were p3s with 75s
>>65558914If they managed to cram commander somewhere else.
>>65558565>>65558703(as discussed on the prior thread) Yes the Panther due to its weight had inadequate final drives and transmission. That was its inherent engineering design flaw, which couldn't be fixed with proper raw materials/metallurgy, manufacturing quality control alone
>>65558003Being feared does not mean being reliable.Hitler being a massive retard in weapons development was one of the major reasons Germany lost. He kept pushing for bigger and bigger tanks when Germany had less and less fuel and raw materials available. In a high attrition war being able to produce high quantities of planes/tanks/canons is more important than their individual quality.
>>65558003>how advanced they weteyDey wetey finna dey gon booma da dey Stalins deysa thinken, but dey Roosavelt makea trey bombad lenda leesee program an den uncle Adi got bamboozled bey dey ally atta Normandee den heesa taken his Looga out den dey blowen heesa brain out! Ooo woossa! De stinko up wetey fuurha-bonker den deys Deuychee reich dem go split in twosaa be de ally en de USSR, pee yousa!
>>65560403Less tanks generally means less fuel and maintenance than more tanks, unless you are comparing 2x 30 ton tank to a single Maus. Try to keep it in reasonable scale.Panther production was very high considering it lasted only barely over 2 years, from less total factory space than T-34 and Sherman and they had to rebuild probably hundreds of them.Same thing with aircraft. Bf 109 was a good deal cheaper than Allied types and very numerous as well. That was partially because they didn't change it that much during the war. However it had big problems leading to losses and was turning rather average on air. Germans calculated they simply couldn't operate more than certain amount of fighters and it would be preferable to instead have premium price fighters with higher performance. Of course in hindsight we know it was too late as Allies were already strafing their airfields, although Bf 109 was also an an easier target on ground.
German tanks suffer from the lack of a centralized industry that the Soviets and Americans had. People make fun of British tanks for looking like cobbled together shit, German tanks are the same but with better aesthetics.
>>65558508Thanks
>>65558407>used by FranceThe frogs hated the Panther.>the option to switch over to other tanksThey didn't for the heavy tank role. They had plenty of Shermans to fill in the medium tank role but no heavies. Hence why they used the Panther and immediately ditched it when the native ARL 44 became available.>>65558003All the points you make aplly mostly to the Panther and not other German tanks.>feared by everyone and praised by everyoneThat's the Tiger tank. A genuinely good heavy tank design that deserves its praise. Nobody went around praising the Panther. The allies were just confused why the Germans felt the need for a second heavy tank. The German assesstment of the Panther is just endless bitching from '43 until the end of the war.
>>65560450The French were operating captured/recovered Normandy Panthers in who knows what condition. Even then they concluded the guns, optics, and armour were excellent. Panther was much cheaper, lighter, and easier to produce than the extraordinarily expensive tiger, even if that introduced reliability issues.
The Tiger, like the Panther, saw its weight increase beyond the initial design specifications; however, unlike the Panther, was there time to revise the design down to the details, such as the gearbox?
>>65560428thank you for your insights on german tanks, Jar-jar. You are truly Bombad General.
>>65558469They lost the sacred relcis of Dmitry Donskoi, and there's a no-shit pneumatic plague (as in, the OG Black Death) outbreak in the city of Irkutsk after a biolab did an oopsie with samples.
>>65558449>((((American sources say))))
>>65558443Lose where
>>65560732Everywhere.
>>65560731Look either you cope with most of your Panthers being out of action or you have to deal with the reality that 70 Panthers couldn't do shit.
Transmission failures are documented. The fearsome reputation of panzers is also documented. There is space between perfection and dogshit.
>>65561275Yet the general consensus leans towards the transmission issues and disregard their feared status entirely
>>65560724>pneumaticIt's pneumonic.
>>65560505The *optics* were great; actual *visibility* was *shit*. The gunner's sight had such a narrow field of view that the TC had to do almost all the target acquisition and talk his guy onto target, and the cupola vision-blocks meant that was a nightmare all of its own.>>65562627The fear was mostly leftover from the Fall of France, plus the whole post-Normandy thing of 'we're almost always attacking, so Jerry will usually get the first-shot advantage and kill at least one of us from ambush, so we're gonna be shit-scared of running into *any* German tank, be it a StuG-III or a Tiger II'.
>>65560430Had a limited number of crews tooMe262 ran on diesel half the reason to go to jets in the first place
>>65560430>German tanks>less maintenanceWho wants to tell him?
>>65558574>average lifespan of less than 200km"Drive it like you hate it" applies very badly to the Panther
>>65558698
>>65560082Short L/37s, those don't take up as much room as a long barrel 75
>>65560428>uncle Adi
>>65563694Yes, short but they're still 75s
>>65565008Clearly referring to the longer 75s, but you already knew that and wanted to quibble about semantics. Sad!
>>65560430>Bf 109>didn't change it that much during the war.I beg your pardon? It had a complete rebuild/reengining/redesign and by the end of the war should be considered an entirely different plane. The only thing it had in common with the 1938 version by 1945 was the name
>>65565230No it wasn't clear.
>>65558353Panther's transmission was fine. The simplified final-drives were fucking retarded though and caused more problems than they solved.
>>65565415>transmission was fine>The simplified final-drivesCorrect. The inadequate final drives were the Panther's primary automotive engineering fault and design weakness. Ought have been equipped with final drives for a tank in the 40+ ton class of 'heavy'. Its initial April 1942 design spec was for a '30- to 35-ton' tank but the designs soon grew over 40. And the original late 1930s Wehrmacht force structure concept was for a '20 ton' tank to eventually replace the Pz Kpfw III and IV (each of which already were in the mid-20-ton weight class). Albert Speer called the Panther a "30 ton" tank.the 1941 competing Soviet tanks that smacked them upside dey haid —>T-34 = 30 tons>KV-1 (so-called "heavy") = 45 tonshttps://en.wikipedia.og/wiki/VK_30.01-30.02_(D)Porsche's slightly earlier VK 30.01 (P)—developed subsequently into the VK 45.01 (P) "porsche tiger" prototype—weighted 30 tons, 5 tons less than the 1941 Daimler Benz (which had a rear sprocket drive) proto-Panther design. The Daimler Benz vehicle would have had better interior space usage and lower height than the eventually-adopted MAN design (that had the front-drive sprocket shaft running the hull length).Even in July 1942 the MAN VK.3002 was documented as having a combat weight "12 percent higher than 30 t." A February 1943 working group evaluated armor plate and metals requirements for Wehrmacht AFVs:>assault guns — 30.7t>Panther — 35.5t>Tiger — 45.6tSo no matter how you view the historical documentation of engineering design, doctrine on the German side the eventual Panther was destined from the outset to be a (minimum) 40 ton tank. The mid-war Nazi regime was in a tight spot to get its new primary battle tank into mass production for the Eastern front lines, so full effort was thrown by fall 1942 behind MAN's design.
>>65558407France in general is a good example of what not to do, doesn't really help your argument.
>>65558003Why were German tanks the best?
>>65566975Because they looked the coolest.
