I'm confident that there is a perfectly justified reason but in the modern era where fully automatic rifles are the norm why is a light machine gun for mobile units still necessary where the 100 round magazine exists?I understand that drum magazines present reliability and portability issues that mean they are not a suitable replacement for box magazines, but would a drum magazines distributed across more members of a squad not be equally or more capable than 1 light machine gunner but with more role flexibility afforded?
>>65562967Because auto rifles are shit. >....distributed across more members of a squad not be equally or more capable than 1 light machine gunner but with more role flexibility afforded?That was what the marines had in mind, the M27 was meant to be issued with casket mags. Never happened, its all 30 rounders, but they still treat the whole squad as a base of fire.
>>65562985>That was what the marines had in mind>he doesn’t know
because ARs overheat and SAWs overheat much slower.
>>65563017this, ARs can fire full auto, but they cannot sustain full auto without melting downalso heavier lmgs are going to be much more controllable under full auto
well, there is the problem of barrel lifespan, then there is the problem of ergonomics and the size of spare magazines. can't put em on typical PC pouches. also there is the problem of ammo distribution of a squad. you don't *need* everyone to go dakka. just one and with enough sustenance, unless your doctrine involves a dedicated machine gun section.
Because real life is not COD and barrels will overheat if you keep firing them in full auto.
>>65562967We tried that, M4s started bursting gas tubes and barrels because surprise surprise infantry rifles aren't designed for sustained full auto fire like in your retarded burndown tests. This is also what happened to the G36 but because Germans are retarded they blamed the gun instead of the retard that dumped several hundred rounds through a gun in a short period of time
In order to sustain the high rate of fire most machine guns have design features that offset issues such as heavier barrels to combat overheating and cook-offs, bipods for more accurate sustained fire, yet as a result are often heavier or otherwise less capable as general issue rifles. You could create some form of "heavy assault rifle" that tries to fit a middle ground but the end result would be something that's worse at either role, when most infantry tactics involve separate fire and maneuver elements with weapons specialized for their role.
>>65562967because cyclic rate and sustained rate are two very different things
>>65562967Heat and barrel wear are the scourge of automatic weapons, and that's why they tend to be designed with certain features, like:>heavy barrels>quick change barrels>open bolt operating systemsRifles get too hot causing weapon damage and unintentional discharges due to closed bolt design causing cookoffs in the chamber.
>>65563741If you have no barrelNo heat problemsWhy not make gyrojet mgs?
>>65563746I like the way you think, can't overheat a barrel that isn't there
>>65562967It's an "in theory, theory and reality are the same; in reality they're not" thing. It's been tried and never works out. Every 15 years or so for the past 50-60 years a new generation of soldiers gets the hope that drums are more reliable than in the past, or that they'll work in this new environment/versus a different enemy, and then they give it up after their first contact.Enough suppression is subjective, but to get it, you basically always need more ammo than a drum mag can supply. Drums are also very bulky, less reliable, and harder to pack. A belt or a SAW box full of a belt is easy to carry and its free. A 100rnd mag costs you your own money and then you drop it on the ground 12 seconds into your first firefight, it breaks, or you bang it on something, or it doesn't fit in your dump pouch. There's always some minor detail which ruins it. And then you go to reload. Did you bring more drum mags? No, they don't fit on your gear. While the SAW gunner is still shooting, and when he's done he'll simply rip out another SAW box.
>>65563719>>65562985>M27and now USMC has adopted it as the servicewide standard infantry rifle>>65563234>G36 'blamed the gun'Is a bad rifle. Designed 'just enough to satisfy the contract' aka close enough for government work. Not one of HK's finer moments. There's a good reason why the (light machine gun derivative) MG36 wasn't mass produced or adopted by any nation.
>>65562967Does anyone have the file on how to drill the 3rd hole? No one has posted in in a while.
>>65564565Yeah dm me on twtter: lilijunexx
>>65562967You're thinking about this too much in video game terms. LMGs just don't have the range that you often need out of a machine gun and a separate LMG will have its own logistic line that intrudes that of the company level machine gun. It's a zero sum game. Therefore, the GPMG is king again.
>>65564565M16 tdp is on odysee
I see where you're coming from but the purpose between the two is completely different. A SAW gunners load out can consist of up to 1000 rounds and they provide covering fire (either as part of a local support by fire or as part of the assault element itself) for a maneuvering element (generally a squad, hence SQUAD automatic weapon, a larger element will have 240s or something) in it's simplest definition. That kind of ammo and firing schedule simply cannot be done with an auto rifle, lookup any AR meltdown on YouTube and you average maybe 300 rounds before the gas tube blows up or it starts having cookoffs.LMG's aren't open bolt and belt fed for the lolz, every SAW gunner in the army would love to just have an AR with drum mags but it simply can't keep up with what a true SAW is supposed to do. Carrying 600+ rounds in drum mags on your person would be uncomfortable and damn near impossible, linked ammo is really the best way to do it without even mentioning the feeding problems most drums introduce (tracking the 249 is far from a machine that just eats belts trust me).
>>65562967Most government, even their low drag special forces, still run automatic belt fed for sustained firepower and has purchasing power to afford machinegun and its ammo. Most won't even consider slight drawbacks of LAMG.For lawful civilian, the speculative price of machinegun is too high vs hard earned cash and the ammo bill to run the into needing barrel swap is also very high. There is no particular advantage for poorly armed and supplied forces to run belts. The same money can be better spend on nvg/ir/comm or even spare vehicle and fuel.Box mag is still fine by with jungle coupler or ready mag to reduce reload time.Another reason to skim on belt is to maximize grenade launcher potential. Big tubes are ammo hungry too.
>>65563726>Lewis gun>PKP (somewhat, in a zigger kind of way)
>>65562967>least phallic looking gun
>>65563741>open boltIt seems like you should be able to modify an M4A1 action to change the full auto to activate the bolt catch when trigger is released, and release the bolt when pulled. You could probably make it a 4 position if you wanted normal auto and open bolt auto.The only real difference is using trigger pressure to close the bolt and having the bolt catch default open.
>>65562967Fires from an open bolt, heavier barrels, swappable barrels./thread
>>65564828you have reading comprehension issues, retard.
>>65562967Beta C drums are absolute junky shit you have no idea and MUCH inferior to a belt and belt box. Drums generally can be a chore, even good ones like the AK 75rd and the Magpul 50rd.Drums being kinda shit is why quad stacks are a thing.Autorifles fail because they are limited by magazines. >>65563234MG36 was bought in smaller numbers by some Arab types. It was doomed by the Beta C mag.
>>65565743You can modify anything into anything, so the fuck what?Ok, good job, you've modified your M4A1 (why the A1 specifically by the way?) into a LMG with a weird open bolt modification, and you threw the Ares Shrike 5.56 upper onto it so it has a heavy, swappable barrel and can be belt fed. Now what? Good job, all your guys have guns that are expensive than a M249 while being less functional than one, and none of them have their lighter weapons that were perfectly fine.
>>65562967There are reliable high capacity magazines but those were never the bottleneck for increasing infantry firepower. Portable firepower is awesome but you really are limited in small arms by heat (barrel life (throat erosion), cook offs, gas tube ruptures in di guns, accelerated wear, ect) and logistically (ammo and parts). Not saying to go full gwot sf but everyone having a sbr as a pdw with heavier weapons on tap (Carl g’s, m107s, dmr’s, miniguns, gernade launchers, m2s, mortars, and air power) is really the way to go. Where you can’t bring mechanized infantry we should give them the dmrs and lmgs they need (think mountains of Afghanistan or the jungle loadouts of spy with their stoners and rpds) but that represents a much smaller niche. I do not think suppression can be replaced with precision like the direction the usmc has leaned with the m27 but it helps to have a mix of both.
>>65565842Sog* not spy
>>65565743Even with an open bolt operation, like the MP40, Uzi, M3 SMG, the M4 would still have heat issues, and be further limited by the use of box magazines.>heavy barrels>quick change barrels>open bolt operating systemsAdd "belt fed ammunition" to that list of features for a decent automatic rifle and it would be closer to complete.IMO, the operating methods and designs of fighting small arms isn't the issue, it's the materials they're made of that would lead to advancements in development. Alloys that reduce weight while providing the same or greater strength that can be operated at higher temperatures is the key to the future. That won't happen though, as the costs are considered too high, and the ground fighter isn't considered worthy enough.
>>65562967>would a drum magazines distributed across more members of a squad not be equally or more capable than 1 light machine gunner but with more role flexibility afforded?Anon, you'll melt your rifle like that. They're not made for sustained automatic fire.
>>65562967your not going to need that magazine depth
