Is damaging the crown of your gun by cleaning the bore from the muzzle end an actual thing or just fudd lore?
>>65567485Only if you use a steel cleaning rod
damaging the crown reduces accuracy by 5% and stopping power by 10%
I mean yeah you can damage the crown but more like if you shove your gun into a rock. Non issue unless you're cleaning with a file.
>>65567561That’s what I imagined the likely culprit would be if it happened at all. Do any major manufacturers even make steel cleaning rods anymore? Seems like a dumb idea
>>65567596Cheapo from china kits I'm sure
>>65567601Wouldn’t it be more expensive to make it with any kind of steel as opposed to aluminum or other soft metal?
>>65567613Look xuenyang ordered 2 tons of steel wire and we have to make something to sell or the chairman will make us work 20 hour shifts again.
>>65567561Isn't the barrel be made of better quality steel than some random steel cleaning rod?
>>65567613Why? Cheap steel is very cheap, aluminium ain't.>>65567637The barrel being slightly harder would help, but it doesn't render it invulnerable.
>>65567485Ive done it with a BRASS rod and it only took one strong thrust. The cleaning patch was very tight so the rod bent and touched thr crowning.
>>65567703>"Shit that didn't happen" for $200 please
>>65567768Hardness doesnt work like that. A softer material can and does wear harder too. Go tell Ruger to make harder steel
>>65567775And it was this kit https://www.stilcrin.it/en/products/1000-complete-cleaning-kits-/9-rifle-and-multical-cleaning-kits/88-cleaning-kit-with-brass-rod-d4mm-or-5mm-3pcs---3-brushes-.html
>>65567775Hey I remember that thread
>>65567775It's hard to explain how things work to retards so it's better to use examples. My go-to example is reminding them that a knife can become dull just from cutting cardboard boxes.
>>65567775That wasn't done by a cleaning rod.
>>65567637Generally barrel steel is heat treated to soft as butter in order to relieve all the stresses in the steel. Also in case of barrel obstruction softer steel is more likely to just bulge and split instead of shattering to shrapnel.A cleaning rod would ideally be made of spring steel so it can take some abuse without bending permanently. This makes the rod hard. Use protection to save the crown
>>65568016>Generally barrel steel is heat treated to soft as butter>in case of barrel obstruction softer steel is more likely to just bulge and split instead of shattering to shrapnel.This, more or less.Most barrels aren't really heat treated at all, besides possibly being normalized or after the barrel blanks are rifled.Barrels are usually made from fairly soft and "stretchy" steels.Generally chrome-molybdenum alloys are used.But some steels used for barrels are better than others.The method used to rifle the barrel is also a factor when it comes to strength, with cold hammer forged barrels being the strongest in common use, and barrels with cut or broached rifling being the weakest. Pressed rifling (button rifling) is somewhere in the middle of the scale.
>>65567485It is a thing if you're using a steel cleaning rod and rubbing it sideways on the crown.If you're using brass or plastic coated rod then it's probably fine but why not just clean from the back? All guns are designed such that you can easily clean from the rear as that is the proper method.
>>65567485I use a plastic cleaning rod
>>65567485With a steel cleaning rod, it's possible if you're rough. Crowns are not critical for basic precision though, it just helps a bit for fine precision at long ranges.>>65568016>>65568035They aren't gonna harden them like some high grade cutting bit steel or anything, no, but you're making it sound like they make barrels completely soft. Barrels have flex and springiness to them, and their rigidity has an effect on how much they flex (and thus harmonics), which is one of the reasons you'll see heavier profiles on precision weapons.(Length can also play into it, which is why one of the oldschool fixes for an old pre-580 Mini-14 was to SBR it.)If barrels were "butter soft" you couldn't use bayonets with infantry rifles.>>65567775Probably still good.>>65567790>My go-to example is reminding them that a knife can become dull just from cutting cardboard boxes.Pretty good example. Rough repeated use with a steel cleaning rod would do cumulative wear.
>>65568237>They aren't gonna harden them like some high grade cutting bit steel or anything, no, but you're making it sound like they make barrels completely soft.Barrels are fairly stiff and somewhat springy, but that's not due to heat treatment. They are the way they are because of the steels used.Barrels are generally not heat treated in any conventional sense (quench hardened and tempered), the way that bolts, receivers, trigger components, etc typically are.>If barrels were "butter soft" you couldn't use bayonets with infantry rifles.You absolutely can bend a rifle barrel by bayoneting things wrong.I've seen barrels bent by soldiers tripping and falling on their rifles too.You it's pretty easy to bend regular barrels, they aren't like big springs or rock-hard press dies.Just look up any given video of WWII-era (or prior) rifle manufacturing, and you'll see footage of factory workers using a machine (pic-rel) to bend rifle barrels and eye-ball the straightness of the bore to correct off-center bores caused by imperfect drilling operations. Hand-operated bending machines like this are still used by smaller manufacturers who make their own barrels.
>>65567596Pretty much every U.S. and foreign milsurp gun had steel cleaning rods, save for the few that used pull throughs, hell the USGI m16/m4 cleaning kit still uses steel rods to this very day
>>65568057>All gunsExcept garand-derived actions, and lever actions, and revolvers. And loads more probably
>>65568035>the American rifles just detonate
>>65568057>All guns are designed such that you can easily clean from the rear as that is the proper method.Uh, no, it's very common for many guns to not readily allow you to run a rod from the chamber end without some extra disassembly.Like on an AK, that barrel isn't coming out of that receiver without a trip to a real armory or a factory. It's not just 1940s guns like the AK either.If you can clean a barrel from the chamber end, obviously that's a bit better, but if you were prone to fucking up the crown by cleaning it from the muzzle, you're then doing wear on the chamber instead.
>>65567485Cleaning rods are outdated anyway. I just use those pull through ropes with the brass brushes to get into the rifling. More compact, lighter, and shrimple to use. It us annoying having to buy one for each caliber rather than just having one big set though.
>>65568057>All guns are designed such that you can easily clean from the rear as that is the proper method.Marlin Model 60 says otherwise, chief.
>>65568419I would rather beat up on the crown than the chamber as well anyway. Also you gotta be beating that fucker like you're loading a musket to do any real damage.
>>65568433True. Crown damage isn't really a big deal for most guns anyway, unless we start getting into actual structural damage around the muzzle.
>>65568353The A-bolt was made in Japan
>>65567485I cleaned through the front with a metal rod all the time. I have a small nick on the crown of my barrel. I don't know if I did it or not. All I know is that the rifle still can shoot 1/4moa no problem, so I think as long as you're careful it won't do shit.
>>65568429Everybody gangster till they get some shit stuck in their barrel
>>65568287>Barrels are generally not heat treated in any conventional sense (quench hardened and tempered)In modern practice, rifle barrels are most commonly alloy steel heat treated to around 30 HRC. (For instance, the M4 barrel spec: 26 to 32 HRC.) The bar stock is hardened before machining, and barrels are stress-relieved after.Stainless barrels are typically 416R at similar hardness, again heat-treated as bar stock.They're not very hard, but they are definitely heat-treated, with a very conventional Q&T process.
>>65568853That hardness range is not considered hardened for 4140 or 4250 alloy it's what you get from normalizing.
>>65568016>This makes the rod hard. Use protection
