How can any country prevent starship from throwing 100 tons of bombs from low earth orbit?>B-but Elon won't allow his spacecraft to be used in warsAll congress has to do is force him to sell starships, they will pay him a good money, it will be cheaper than a F-22, as Elon expects each Starship to cost 50 millions. Each F-22 cost 150 million.More Starships produced = increased mass production = decreases the cost of each unit. Elon will actually want to sell Starship to the military forces.Will Starship be under the Air Force branch, or will they create a new branch for it?I can already imagine the navy and army fags seething with jealousy.
Isnt it easier to just crash the whole Starship on people?
Orbital bombardment has been viable since Sputnik, it's just that we have treaties to limit ourselves to suborbital strikes.My guess is that the game theory behind it is that having mystery strikes without warning time is too unstable for either side's liking.
>>65601044what does this do that you can't achieve with ballistic missiles? If you're the US with military infrastructure all across the globe, an SRBM/IRBM will always be cheaper than taking a bomb, strapping it to a Starship, going into orbit, deorbiting the bomb and crashing it into a target. It just seems like a big waste to me, when the Starship could serve as a genuine force multiplier by dropping satellites into orbit. It could even fuck with enemy satellites on a large scale.
1. No2. This >>656010473. You need to go back >>>r/ElonMuskCircleJerk
>>65601069It's not the mystery strike without warning time that's a problem, it's that anything beyond a tactical ballistic missile is largely the realm of nuclear weapons because the cost to effect ratio of throwing HE with something that expensive simply isn't worth it, and as a result, if someone sees the US launch ballistic missiles at them, they have at least a realistic reason to worry about them having spicy rocks, which in turns making them very escalatory against anyone who can shoot back. While cruise missiles and bombers can carry nukes, the US has used them in conventional strike operations enough that they've been normalized as a non-nuclear threat and as a result are much less of a problem to use.
it will never work and facist chuds like elon ADOLF musk need to kill themselves for making fake flying cars instead of stoping global climate change and denying people immigration needed for healthcare initiatives
>>65601103>>65601044Fuck off back where you came from.
>>65601069But it is far too expensive to launch a one time use rocket to bombard with conventional explosives.With Starship, the cost of each flight will be cut by a lot, and the rocket can be reused.
>>65601070>what does this do that you can't achieve with ballistic missiles?Can be reused, lower costs, huge payload.
>>65601070You skip the orbital part and use it as a re-usable liquid fueled IRBM. The booster comes back to base to refuel like a manned bomber.
>>65601139>Can be reused, lower costs, huge payload.I highly doubt that a Starship costs less than a PrSM. Concerning the payload, I feel that the trend over the last ~50 years has gone away from big payloads towards smaller and more precise ones. Unless you need some sort of boutique bunker-busting weapon, of course.>>65601141>You skip the orbital part and use it as a re-usable liquid fueled IRBM. The booster comes back to base to refuel like a manned bomber.This sounds so retarded it's probably bait, but fuck it, I'll bite. Using a Starship sub-orbitally means you're not making use of the Starship's full capabilities. Liquid-fueled IRBMs were obsolete in the 1960ies for a variety of reasons (refueling times, handling of hypergolic fuels, etc...).
>>65601178Starship doesn't use hypergolic fuels. If you can't get the basic facts right why are you even typing? To shit up the board?Here's the concept: instead of sending B2's to Iran (or wherever) over a 16+ hour flight with complicated refueling and escorts and pilot recovery ops on standby and overseas bases all to deliver 2 MOPs each, launch 15 MOPs on a single Starship, which get there in half an hour, and refuel at home the same day. It's cheaper, faster, safer.
>>65601044This is the most important development in the history of the world. Never before has a nation had the capability to deploy a company-sized element of BWC anywhere on earth with mere minute's notice. The aching, wet, empty brown pussies of the world are now able to be colonized in record time. Thus begins the Weapons Of Mass Fornication arms race.
this is a fundamental misunderstanding of orbital mechanicsif the starship is in orbit, how does the weapon then deorbit from the ship in a fashion that doesn't modify the ships orbit and causes a 'fast' reentry for the weapon?a ship in a 200km orbit can't just 'drop' a bombi suppose you could fire a missile but then what the fuck is the pointsubstituting the assent phase of a ballistic missile with a reusable rocket launch AND deorbit phase would just be a dumb waste of resources
>>65601178It will cost less on the large scale.No more need for bases all around the world.Starship can just go to orbit, launch some bombs and return home.Most of the countries won't be able to touch it.>if the starship is in orbit, how does the weapon then deorbit from the ship in a fashion that doesn't modify the ships orbit and causes a 'fast' reentry for the weapon?You just need a small push, gravity will do the rest.
>>65601272You're not wrong, but what Starship could allow is to deploy a 20 or 30 t penetrator, which then maneuvers to de-orbit and dives into a target at several km/s.Sure, you sacrifice some velocity because you have to de-orbit, but that is still the most lethal conventional bunker buster ever.It's not the classic 'rods from the gods', of course. But if the number of boosters and starships really gets to dozens you could set up a launch within a few hours and have this fuckhuge chunk of metal and ceramics hit a target less than an hour after launch.It probably violates a few treaties though.
>>65601411the main problem is that getting into orbit and then deorbiting while the plane of your orbit is in line with your target has a lot of lead time and is really not very sneaky or unexpected at all, objects are fairly easy to track in space.also, the footprint and acceleration of starship matters.ICBM's are cold launched and instantly pop out of hidden installations in the ground.the launch of a starship could be anticipated by an enemy with halfway decent surveillance capabilities literally days in advance, and the massive IR signature as it takes off would be unmistakable for anything else, starship also has a much lower TWR than small ICBM's and thusly takes far longer to accelerate to it's final speed, actually slowing delivery time.all in all it's a fun fantasy to have, but entirely impractical in the real world.still tho, imagine dropping a starship filled to the brim with butterfly mines onto an enemy capital lol.
>>65601497Except not many countries have any missile that can shot down something from space.>Oh... I see they deployed starship.>Oh... I see they released 10 MOPs.Good luck intercepting those bombs at hypersonic speeds.
>>65601497>the main problem is that getting into orbit and then deorbiting while the plane of your orbit is in line with your target has a lot of lead timeAs a hypothetical, once Booster and Starship are in mass production with a dozen or more launch pads in Lousianna, California and Florida, you could have a booster on teh pad, lift a Staship loaded with one or two of those mega-bunker-buster on top of teh booster, fuel teh whole thing and launch in less than a day.Since you can select any inclination you want from those three laucnh locations, you wil be over your target in less than 90 minutes. Sure, this is more of a 'ground alert' type of thing, and you will not be hitting tactical, moving targets.But most bunkers do not move, so yeah. And it sure beats flying a B-2 or B-21 around the world for 12 hours.
Just stick two dozen starships with 30-40 something LRASMs each in orbit. The instant war kicks off you boost them down and they launch. Can have a carrier group killing capability anywhere on the globe in 8 minutes. The LRASM has enough guidance capabilities that you only need to get the starship with 150 miles of the carrier group. Nothing on the planet could defend against that, short of shooting down the orbiting starships as the opening act of the war. Add that to the upcoming starshield constellation and it's over.
>>65601952>if you do that we'll nuke youNow what?
>>65601987Well obviously we nuke them back. And we have both more nukes and actual missile defenses. Either way, not developing a capability because it'd make you win a conventional war too hard is retarded. Frankly, we could load up a bunch of starships with early or mid course interceptors as well. There's a reason China is doing a massive nuclear buildout, they're afraid.
>lose control of the nuke reentry >nuke yourself by mistake Imagine the memes
>>65601044You could do FOBS but one or two all up starships for an ODST style evac like of that WSO that was shot down would probably end up being cheaper than how they actually did it IRL.
>>65601192Not him, but you can't store fuel in a Starship on the pad. It'll boil off. You have to start fueling it a little less than an hour before launch, and then empty the fuel back into storage if it sits there for an hour after you finish fueling it. That's the downside of using cryogenic fuels and oxidizer on Earth, especially the densified super-chilled stuff that SpaceX has pioneered in order to increase performance. If you want rapid-response launch, that's where solids shine, and why every US military rocket uses solids.That said, your comparison of Starship to B-2s flying out of Whitman is a fair point. As long as payload integration could be performed rapidly (or a few Ships set aside with pre-loaded bays) and all of the mission programming was set aside and ready to be performed on short notice, an orbital flight with rapid payload deployment and said payload doing its own de-orbit burn(s) could hit just about anywhere on the planet faster than a subsonic bomber from CONUS (but not faster than a solid-fueled ICBM/SLBM). With SpaceX's expansion/cadence plans over the next few years, purchasing a few cargo modules (or even whole Ships) and keeping them stashed in a bay under armed guard near a pad might even be a cost-effective idea--although keeping anyone from seeing that you just opened the military hangar and rolled out the government-owned Ships would prove as difficult as sneaking the B-2s out of Whitman (note the misdirection required to pull the big attack off last year, and what you'd have to do in order to keep anyone with eyes on the launch site from figuring it out until it was too late).So, is it *possible* to use Starship to launch weapons that are sub-orbital or immediately de-orbit? Yes. Is it worth it? Dunno, maybe. There are some trade-offs involved, and it's not really useful as a second-strike weapon once hot rocks are flying.
>>65601272There are a couple of options.First, if the deployment mechanism is reasonably fast, you copy the last few Flights before 14: launch to a sub-orbital velocity, deploy the munitions, re-light and put the Ship into orbit so it can be recovered.Second, push for orbital velocity up-front , deploy the munitions, and fit them all with enough thrust to de-orbit.Obviously, anything with that kind of range has to have some form of guidance. ICBMs mostly use star-trackers, INS, and now GPS (if it's still working by that point). You're probably looking at low millions per weapon at a minimum.
>>65604800What if they stored conventional weapons on space?And then they would deploy the bombs that are already there.
Can't the pentagon just create a super large laser weapon and use starship to put it on orbit.
>>65601081>>>>r/ElonMuskCircleJerkWhy does Elon make certain people so fucking mad?
>>65601403The fuck you talking about? A gigantic grain silo would be easy as fuck to hit in orbit.Just do an Iran and make cheap road capable ICBMs using solid fuels and ignore Musk's boondoggle.
>>65601044>will they create a new branch for it?>doesn't even know about spaceforce.>talking about all this shitFuck off retard.
>>65601044The ability for Starship to dump an enormous amount of equipment into orbit with unprecedented cost efficiencies is a far more formidable capability than employing it for some kind of reusable ICBM nonsense. >>65601139What kind of psychotic continent-razing Teller bomb requires a whole-ass starship to deliver it to its target?>>65601192This is retarded for one main reason: it will be blindingly obvious to anyone with even a minimal spy satellite capability that a starship launch will be taking place from a military installation and that it very likely has a military payload. A purpose-built missile could be launched from an aircraft, silo, or ship will relatively little warning compared to the entire process of staging super-heavy orbital rocket launch. >>65604829Now we're talking
>>65601997>and actual missile defenseslmao
>>65604927He bought Twitter and removed the censorship. This broke a lot of people's minds; they considered it a betrayal on the level of Emmanuel Goldstein, for many of the same reasons.
>>65604819Then they would effectively be satellites, and would have to be capable of maneuvering in space in order to avoid collisions and de-orbit themselves safely over water after a few years.
>>65605024>angry pro-iranian seethingsorry iran lost and is getting blockaded, hope you get over it some day.
>>65601044It’s easy to launch a geostationary satellite that drops nukes on the area beneath it, the thing is the mere act of having such a satellite constitutes a declaration of war against the country located underneath it
>>65601044>How can any country prevent starship from throwing 100 tons of bombs from low earth orbit?well physics will even rods of gods bs cant cause widespread damage
>>65607860
I think better use for it is getting other strategic cargo into orbit rather than using Starship as its own.
The only way starship has a hope of becoming operational is if the US authorities finally wrest control of SpaceX from a Kremlin compromised puppet, and into the hands of a competent administration who will resume aid to the Ukes. But as Churchill said, you can always count on America to do the right thing after they have tried every wrong thing. Elon musk possibly has a higher kill count than many serial killers or even dictators through his ainaction or outright sabotage of Ukraine, and is still allowed near US infrastructure, which is abhorrent.
>>65608948you're retarded lmao, spacex is never getting nationalized, cope and seethe, spacex is succesful exactly because it is not nationalised, and starship development is coming along swimmingly, the porkfat retards that caused SLS are not fucking invited to ruin this as well.
>>65608948A nationalized SpaceX would ditch Starship as a retarded boondoggle that will never work and just focus on launching Falcons since those are actual rockets.
>>65608948a nationalized SpaceX would just become NASA 2.0, I.E a do-nothing jobs program for retarded black woman where nothing is ever accomplished.
>>65608954>starship development is coming along swimminglyPropellent transfer status?
>>65601044Elon is a fag
>>65608948He’s such a fucking dumbass
>>65609047If the US had any common decency left, his assets would be frozen for compromising the defense of UkraineAnd there would be an investigation into Kremlin ties.
>>65609041>goalpost moving status?going just fine, the starship program will continue doing extremely ambitious things faster than every other player in the industry is doing pedestrian things or things spacex already managed to do 10 years ago.
>>65609092You're the one who said its going swimmingly when it hasn't even done something it was supposed to do in 2022 and just achieved orbit (engines still failed though lmao).
>>65609101>was supposed to doit wasn't, there's no hard dates like that in spaceflight, and trying to corner starship on it proves you have zero arguments.starship is doing things that were considered literally impossible 10 years ago, and nobody else but the chinese are even close to that level of ambition.for a project of that level of ambition and scope, it is going swimmingly.can't say the same for blue's falcon 9 copy which also took them way longer than expected to build, and recently blew up their pad on a (very important distinction you guys ignore) OPERATIONAL MISSION.rocketlab just found a bunch of voids in their falcon 9 clone's carbon fiber hull, ULA can't seem to stop their SRB's from exploding on a basic bitch expendable rocket, and boeing can just barely get a shitty frankensteined version of the shuttle out the door for 4 billion dollars a piece after 20 years (actual good upper stage not included, that project's all but dead).i'd say for how far ahead of everyone else spacex is, their R&D is going just fine.
>>65609047Honestly can't tell if he really is that fucking stupid or if he thinks everyone else is. Only his bots will believe any of this shit.
>>65609129i don't, musk is a egotist who oversteps his boundaries beyond engineering all the time, doesn't mean spacex is getting nationalized.
>>65601272>Large rocket booster to decelerate the orbit>Another large booster to dive down at record braking speed
>you have to let us use your satellites to bomb people, because you just have to okay
>>65609047>you’d lose without meEven if somewhat true that’s a fucked statement to make
>>65609164>zigger screeching and copesWhat blew up?
>>65601044>Will Starship be under the Air Force branch, or will they create a new branch for it?What is Space Force...?
>>65609047FVEY allies need to make it very clear to the US that if SpaceX is not nationalized soon and full support given to Ukraine, that there will be dire consequences.
Why are people bringing nukes?Starship can make orbital bombardments using conventional bombs economically viable.>b..but everybody can see the starship launchingYeah, but most can't do a single thing against it. If they want to destroy a bunker in Iran, they won't need to risk any airplane, or any pilot. No need for the whole refuel operation involving multiple airplanes and airbases.Launch starship from USA, drop bombs, come back. Land on the pad automatically.
>Warriortard now spamming pro-Elon propaganda threads Yawn
>>65606269Is he wrong though.
>>65609047Starlink was barely used at the start of the conflict.Is he on crack.
>>65609327ketamine and a cocktail of uppers, but yeah
>>65609047What causes this man to act like this?
>>65609080Why the fuck would the US care about the defense of Ukraine?
>>65609121>it wasn't, there's no hard dates like that in spaceflightThe literal contract SpaceX signed with NASA said they would be having propellent transfer tests by 2022. Not reading the rest of your drivel since you're clearly retarded.
>>65609275Satellite interception missiles are a thing numbnuts. And a giant grain silo would be an extremely easy target. And what's to stop your target from blowing up your launchpad with their own ballistic missiles lmao.
>>65609047Musk is pretty much just a Bond villain at this point. Hopelessly full of himself, thinking the entire world needs his approval to do something. Or that he is owed something. Trying to play the "I'm not a politician" card, but directly impacting/creating policy and conditions that affect those matters.
>>65609320yes
>>65609522the literal contract that literally every spaceflight company has with NASA is:here's the deadli-OOPS we missed it hahathe reality is that rocketry is hard and things rarely happen on schedule, spacex is unique in that it's only slightly off schedule where others might be a whole 6 years off schedule, and they do it while working on a fully reusable vehicle, something that's never been done before.>n-not readingoh, don't worry, my dear retard-anon, i am not naive enough to think that you know how to read, you know nothing about spaceflight and it's goings on, keep your head down next time so you don't make a humiliate yourself, stay in your lane.
>>65609675So Starship is years behind schedule. Thanks for agreeing with me. Don't care about the rest of your copepost.
>>65609785If they manage to catch both stages in flight 15.It is over for the competition.It will be the first time both stages have been fully recovered.
>>65609785>so starship is a revolutionary project and every other player in the industry is further behind on their own project even though they’re just expendable or basic bitch falcon clonesYes, feel free to continue seething about this reality, you’re out of your depth.>t-thanks for agreeing with meI didn’t.I do accept your concession, however, you have no arguments and are just angry at a starship as some sort of weird proxy for the guy running the show, embarrassing.>i-i don’t careYou do, you just have no answer because you are sub-70 IQ and don’t know how to read, nor do you know anything about the industry.>>65609850He’s a toddler having a hissy fit, he’s just going to repeat the same narrative like slamming against a brick wall because he hates the fact that he lost and can’t accept it.
>>65609047He’s been doubling down on this btw
What if you just sent up a small satellite to deorbit some of the junk that already up there Like the plausible deniability of dropping uranium over the greater la metropolitan area
>>65610807
>>65601103Gr8 b80 m80
>>65609080ukraine is not a territory of the us btw
>>65609269Like what? They'll openly support mudslimes instead of covertly?
>>65605141> He bought Twitter and removed the censorship.LOLnigga there are literally scores of cases of him ratioing people for disagreeing with him, banning people who disagree with him, and blocking things that upset him. Dirt on JD Vance, and blocking the documentary on him, are just off the top of my head and I don't even use sh*tter.You're fucking gullible son.NTA btw
>>65611286Didn't he also block Asmongold. How much of a bitch do you have to be to block one of your glazers.
>>65601069what other side?
>>65604927He’s on record for being against the apartheid, which means he’s a commie faggot. He then later goes on record to complain about the “white genocide” in South Africa. Either he says whatever he can to get to greener pastors or he’s like every other commie faggot who will say literally anything to influence the population and keep himself in power. Guarantee he probably is a Russian lover (by proxy of him trying to tie Ukraine’s hands from killing more of them) and as a moderate I can’t tolerate anyone who realistically thinks that anything less than total Russian death and the complete eradication of their homosexual, bear loving underclass.He does employ people who make cool rockets, and he has the claim to fame for being so autistic that he got paid fuck you money by Peter Thiel to leave PayPal. Can’t dispute that his autism didn’t get him anywhere, though the majority of people I know admire the fact that he was so insufferable he got paid off to leave, so he truly is a man of the laymen.>you to can be such a fag if you only aspire to be an ass to everyone and be autistic!
>>65609047I wonder if he realises how badly this drama is compromising the market for his own product. Obviously countries can't just pull a network of comparable coverage out of their asses overnight, but pulling shit like this is precisely how you make sure nobody trusts it to be there when they really need it in the future.
>>65611978He doesn't because he thinks trump will protect him.
>>65609134It should have been nationalized immediately when Elon wavered in his support for Ukraine >>65609561Bond villain, as in a target for British intelligence? One can hope. If the yanks are too stupid to deal with traitors to Ukraine, then the Brits could drop some evidence of him committing sex crimes or taking Kremlin bribes.
>>65611926>greener pastors
Ok, hear me out. 100 tons of lazy dogs, you're dropping them from suborbital trajectory instead of LEO so you don't have to worry about them burning up, or you just make them out of carbide
>>65612318He didn’t, starlink is still supporting ukraine right now, you are a falseflagging strawmanning zigger.
>>65612549Then what is this little shitfit monke dance he is throwing, claiming Ukraine violated the TOS, after getting caught interfering Ukraine’s service? And then you just repeat the word zigger back like your dumb ass have doubtless been called many times over? 0/10 methodchka attempt, zigger.
>>65612573NTA but you do sound like a false flagging zigger.
>>65601044Actually it's not "Starship" you should care about.It's the "Heavy booster" stage doing 90% of the work.Getting into orbit is a weakness, it's NOT a defensible position, maybe it was before, but now the slightest laser would disable it and China have invested in that massively.As for it's usefulness... the problem is that you want quantity more than you want mass.It would be more useful to use a Booster to launch 20 missiles with high penetration, but their price would make defense against them very cost-effective.You are actually better developing a mean to cheaply deploy a 1000 drones swarm, and there Starlink problem is that it would become a legitimate target.Remember how China invested in lasers? You won't launch satellites fast enough to cover the disabled ones and they won't even risk a Kessler effect sabotaging their own sats.
