So now with the war in Ukraine, has the previous consensus on the effectiveness of the AK-47 (and later guns like the AK-74) changed? Obviously I'm not suggesting any positive feelings towards Russia whatsoever, Putin is a tyrant and will fall as all tyrants do, and Ukraine will emerge victorious, I'm just curious if the AK-47 itself is still considered a 'good gun' or if the war has proven that it's actually shit now. I hold no positive affectations towards Russia whatsoever, this is purely about the effectiveness of the gun itself, which you could argue isn't even really a Russian gun since it was inspired by designs outside of Russia.SLAVA UKRAINI!
Eh, not a terrible concept for bait but you lay it on too thick for it to be believable.
>>65607291>Obviously I'm not suggesting any positive feelings towards Russia whatsoever, Putin is a tyrant and will fall as all tyrants do, and Ukraine will emerge victorious>SLAVA UKRAINI!it's legitimately hilarious that anons feel compelled to put disclaimers like this in their post when making any post that involves russia since they know if they don't their thread will instantly be brigaded by people calling them a ziggerkekAnyone to answer your question OP, the AK turned out to be a dogshit service weapon. Every single Ukrainian wants an AR-15. I remember early in the war there was the Ukrainian Rambo + trench goblin vs russia horde fight and the Ukrainian Rambo was interviewed after. He was extremely excited to announce his performance earned him an AR to replace his AK. Any Ukrainian who has the choice to use an AR or AK chooses the AR.
>>65607298
>>65607302We had someone get called a Russian in another thread for liking the aesthetic of balaclavas, you can never be too careful with this sort of thing.
>>65607303What makes the AR so much better? Is it the rails? A better magazine that doesn't stick into the dirt when you're prone?
>>65607308>get called a RussianSo what? Since when "Russian" become a forbiden word?
>>65607319When Russia turned into the Third Reich and decided to try to conquer Europe again
>>65607317It's just more accurate, soft shooting, and light.
>>65607323>Third Reich and decided to try to conquer Europe againThats what ukraine propaganda told you. Just leave russia alone. They will be busy among themself.
>>65607291RIP TO THE KRINK
The AK is hard hitting shit box and always has been. But being a shit box is its greatest strength which will always make it viable.Its just now the AK is dated by modern weapons and technology which leads to diffrent tactics all together. The AK is not the only thing that has been Mogged by the new age.Modern firearms have breached the gap of being "just as durable and reliable" or close enough of as being as durable or reliable at less weight and sporting better accuracy do to advanments in production. But even then modern firearms are still pretty Gucci and have the need for bells and whistles to fully shine.The AK platform though is a pointed stick and stone in a form of a gun. It might have lost its time in the sun, but its not going away anytime soon, or ever infact.
>>65607291The AKM is okay, 7.62x39 is still lethal but you're going to be outranged by both .308s and 5.56/5.45s; so IMO worst of both worlds. The AK74 is an excellent gun, but it is old. The tactical differences between an AR and an AK are basically irrelevant (in terms of ballistics and form factor), but at an armorers level the AR is in a class of its own. AKs are harder to mount optics to, they're hard to mount modern handguards to, they're just generally harder to service and upgrade. AKMNs and 74Ns were never common in any soviet army, and even among russians who had the 74Ms, the actual issued dovetail optics were all shitty. Railed dustcovers can work, but a little play in the hinge can ruin the whole thing; so its not uncommon for hand fitted shims to be used which would be unacceptable in a mass issued gun. Time will tell if the AK12 is the upgrade the gun needs, they seem willing to iterate on its early issues; but even before the war soviet satellites were moving away from AKs so its influence has shrunk significantly.>>65607303>He was extremely excited to announce his performance earned him an AR to replace his AK. Any Ukrainian who has the choice to use an AR or AK chooses the AR.>It's just more accurate, soft shooting, and light.Nigga, western guns were exclusively for rich people pre-war; he wasn't excited because of stats; it was a flex. Like if somebody were gifted a Rolex, the saltwater resistance would not be the reason they were happy.
>>65607391In the Modern war in Donbas in the trenches and tree line forts an AK pattern weapon is all that is all that is really required. The whole thing is Drone and then Storm assault back and forth.Highly accurate western designs are a waste of resources in combat that is minute of man Most* of the time.I believe personally that the AK is fine for the new technological drone war future. What was old is new again. Its good as long as its cheap to make because the men carrying it are meat popsicles on both sides.
>>65607426Not himBut wouldn’t shotguns be better? They’re good in CQB trenches / apartments and they’re good against drones
>>65607291I never liked it much as a weapon. It has neither the precision I want or the quality in the ons I used. That being said one weapon with centuirefire, semi and burst much the same as any other within 50M. My top choices would probably be a G3 or suprisingly enough a garabnd after that a decent precison scoped rifle rifle with good glass and bedding and ammo and after that a semi auto shotgun and finally any SMG in 9mm+P with a 30 round or up mag. I've just never warmed to intermediatre cartridges if I want to shoot someone the other side of a concrete block wall oir a thick tree.
>>65607441>>65607441>But wouldn’t shotguns be better?I used one in combat but it was at point blank ranges in a built up area. It worked. Really you have fucked up if you are not doing the job with explosives.
>>65607441agreed
>>65607291What optic is that?
>>65607291Nice try ziggie, but you'll always be brown.
>>65607291Literally nobody has ever said the AK47 wasnt an excellent gun. Seasoned post.
>>65608446The AK-47 is fucking garbage Ivan, it was obsolete even by the time it was created
>>65607330>Leava russian aloneAnon it was russia that invaded into georgia an ukraine.Russia refuses to leave others alone. I wonder what business it jad turning half of syria in carpet bomb target practice.Russians nowadays are scum that's left after 100 years of purging and driving off their bravest, smartest and most virtuous males. It was never a country that left others alone in history.T. Ex soviet who felt it after the soviet ynion fell.
>>65607553Relevant image.
>>65607303>Anyone to answer your question OP, the AK turned out to be a dogshit service weapon. Every single Ukrainian wants an AR-15There was a story about Bakhmut where the gist of it was that the firefight was so intense and continuous that they had to cycle rifles to let them cool down and it was that phase of the war where they were using all sorts of random kit donated by everyone in Europe that had surplus/expired military gear to dispose of, plus whatever the guys before him had left over.Some of them, the AK included, tended to fail faster because of polymer parts that melted. Something like a FAMAS was considered the longest lasting and the AR was the most reliable.
>>65608679What is...>Limited Penetration Breaching Theory...anyway?I've never come across that exact expression.
>>65608679Inb4 [some guy with an oversize satchel charge demolishing a whole building.mp4]
>>65607291It hasn't changed. Before the AR, most people would agree that the AR is slightly superior, but also that slight differences in assault rifles just simply don't matter in the grand scheme of things, and that as long as a rifle goes bang when you pull the trigger it's fine. That general consensus still hasn't changed. Sure, now, after the war, you now get a lot more people rabidly attacking the AK simply for being Russian, but it's hard to argue with the fact that both sides are still using soviet equipment, and that any Ukrainian success at the infantry level have nothing to do with what rifle they're using since they're still mostly using the same rifle.Actually, engagement in /k/ is at an all-time low, people just can't be bothered to argue about AK vs the AR any more. Or maybe it's confined the the generals, I wouldn't know.
>>65607323>Russia turned into the Third Reich /pol/ or reddit, call it.
>>65608744You hang out in the doorway and get shot to death instead of running into the center of the room to be shot to death
>>65607291smells like an angry zigger falseflag/strawman thread LMAOkill yourself pidor.
>>65607317practical answer: rails that hold zeroreal answer: cargo cultists want gucci gun
>>65607291It's a piece of shit but there are millions of them and it works.
>>65608935You are a disgusting retarded shill. I hope you fucking die.
Differences between assault rifles matter less than many think, as long as the design doesn’t have any obvious botch-ups, it’s good enough to do its job. If we assume that AK based on a proven design gets made in a factory that gives the slightest shit about its quality control, it’s a fine design.It’s not meaningfully outdated, neither is it ”le indestructible slavic gun that survives for generations without requiring maintenance”. It’s a good design, that’s it. That being said, I’d still take a good AR over AK, but it doesn’t mean that AR would be meaningfully better in wartime conditions.
>>65608798That's reddit, based on context. /pol/ wouldn't use the Third Reich as a pejorative.
>>65608753I think it was a ukie with 3 tank mines strapped together, that he threw into a building... Anyone got the webm?
>>65609060
>>65609079Thanks anon. I think there is also a third version of this as well and the ukie just makes it, the house getting obliterating behind him.
>>65607291At the end of the day, does the small arm really matter? AK or AR, in the hands of someone who knows how to shoot, both will drop a guy in their given range.
>>65608928>You hang out in the doorway and get shot to death instead of running into the center of the room to be shot to deathThanks, I always wondered.>>65608798>Russia turned into the Third Reich>>65609038>That's reddit, based on context. /pol/ wouldn't use the Third Reich as a pejorative./pol/ WOULD ignore that the USSR was hand-in-glove with the Third Reich trying to conquer Europe though.Really, Russia turned back into a wannabe-USSR in its form of one-party Russian Empire.
>>65607305i think of this meme every time someone says "pidor" or "peramova" or "vatnik"stop saying those vodka-words and speak english
>>65609060>I think it was a ukie with 3 tank mines strapped together, that he threw into a building... Anyone got the webm?Here's a different one and guess what, throwing AT mines is also something you can use drones for.There's nothing you can't ruin with drones if you try hard enough.Except for sapper's hearing I guess.
>>65607317AR fires an intermediate caliber that causes less kickback and recoil making it more comfortable to fire and easier to control the weapon when laying down covering fire/firing on full auto. AK fires a larger caliber which can cause discomfort and be difficult for your average gruntlet to control. I'd imagine the quality of ammo available also makes a huge difference; if you're using AR platform you're probably firing some well-preserved NATO surplus or even brand new rounds that will fire perfectly. Meanwhile if you're issued an AK you're probably being issued Soviet era surplus munition that's rusty or corroded that's prone to misfire and wreck your weapon
>>65607291Until we get a few dozen examples of Norky 125 round heaven so we can test the pure bliss of firing one into people until it empty we can't really determine if the AK platform is good at killing humans.Of course it works at it's job.
>>65608678I mean, there is a reason they're the most massive country on Earth. And it is not "live and let live".
>>65610280>AK fires a larger caliber which can cause discomfort and be difficult for your average gruntlet to control.Nobody uses 7.62 AKs, even mobiks get 5.45 guns; and the difference between 5.56 and 5.45 are functionally meaningless.
>>65610297Russia uses Type 73s, of course they use 7.62 x39 rounds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_73_light_machine_gunYean i know complicated because of the top feed belt combo not to mention the grenade ;launcher.
>>65610280>/k/ has never been this nogunz>>65607291>obvious European b8 threadIt makes sense.
>>65607302This it ok bait if it was just the first mention it might have passed but the second and the slabs was to thick >>65607303The pro Ukraine stuff is likely just some but hurt trolling of some tanky that sad lost of Russian gear got exposed.>>65607291On topic though, I have honestly not heard that much. Ak is that what people know and baseline. The western stuff is treated as premium. People seem to prefer them mostly on ergonomics and aftermarket parts. The hate I have seen was more on specific gun that are unreliable but it's more die to wear/quality. A second hand western gun will simply be better then a gun that was already 65 years in service
>>65609256>At the end of the day, does the small arm really matter in the drone ages where (((you))) can simply send an FPV drones to blow somebody ass off?
>>65607549Delusional ignorance. Russia is mass issuing advanced ap rounds pretty much as a standardized item now. It’ll blow the fucking doors off any of the cartridges you listed for barrier penetration.>inb4 Russia can’t do that they’re literally using donkeys for logiGuess valgear is lying then. Their ammo supply is superior to the Ukrainians right now per his videos.No one wants battle rifle shitters btw.
>>65607291AK isn't the logistics champ the AR variants are, it's not losing on some component of the gun's attributes, the AK loses because it's not in as good a production and supply line.
>>65610382Considering you already get a lot of anons calling each other Russian bots just for saying they like AK type weapons it’s not really surprising that anons feel the need to add this disclaimer into their OPs now
>>65607319Since /k/ got brigaded by tourists. They may just outnumber the jeets and the bots at this point.
>>65607291>putin is like, le heckin bad and i like, dont LIKE russia because theyre le bad too...Jesus fucking christ this board is full of faggots. Yes, russians are subhuman retards, no you don't need to purity test yourself to discuss weapons. I can't wait for all of the noodle armed noguns europoor war tourists to fuck off so actual weapon discussion between gun owners can happen again. Its all so tiresome and pathetic.
>>65610600Because it’s the best war we’ve ever gotten. 10 to 1 casualties in favor of Ukraine, every single weapon that Russia has ever made is proven to be garbage, and Russia itself is dissolving into nothing, it’s going to balkanize
>>65610613Shut the fuck up Zigger faggot
>>65610617Kill yourself
>>65610624You first Reddit tourist
>>65610625Post gun and outlet, Suhkdeep, you should know how this works by now.
>>65607323Russia was always worse.
>>65610272I like the little X-wing icon. For most purposes the targeting computer is fine.
>>65610613>tfw in another thread someone is saying that there's 50 Russians killed for every Ukrainian killed, and he got called a Zigger because the ratio of Russians-to-Ukrainians was too low
>>65610357>7.62x39NIGGER READ YOUR OWN GODDAMN LINK
>>65610959it's a false flag accusation, seeing 'what blew up?' in every bait thread they post made them really, really mad so they go out of their way to post it in on-topic threads now.
>>65610959no, the entire thread was an obvious zigger falseflag, as was this one LMAO.
The AK definitely needs modding>smaller rounds like ak74 round>polymer replacing wood>plastic mags>rails for opticThis, just for starts
>>65610764>I like the little X-wing icon. I think that's a direction of flight cross-hair.>For most purposes the targeting computer is fine.The red circle might be lateral drift of the drone while looking through the down camera (bomb sight), I assume the green cross is directly down.
>>65607317I assume OP is talking about the AK74 and other 5.45mm derivatives like the AK100s, not actual 7.62x39 AKMsBallistic performance and weight is roughly equivalent, but most similarities stop thereARs have a much easier manual of arms, are infinitely more customizable, have better optics options, and are actually more reliable in adverse conditions thanks to the dust-cover and tighter toleranceslet me give a very basic couple of examples: 1. do you find the length-of-pull too short on your AK? too long? generally speaking your only options are folding the stock away or dealing with it, there aren't very many adjustable stock options for AKs whereas there's about a million over-the-counter collapsing stocks you can stick on your AR in about 2 minutes2. open magwell guiding your reloads are always gonna be easier and faster and more consistent than a flush rock-and-lock like the AK, G3, FAL, or M14personally, if I were in SHTF, I wouldn't mind an AK at all, but I'd probably like an AR15 better, and ukies are in bigger shit than I'm ever likely to be-t. has never fired a caliber smaller than .308 in his life
Threads like this sometime make me wonder how many people on here shoot or own guns at all.The AK has performed just fine in Ukraine. Any quality infantry rifle will perform close to identically in practice to any other quality infantry rifle. A lot of their AK74s are old and do not have side rail mounts by default and Western weapons are status symbols in Ukraine so a lot of them prefer Western guns. At the same time I’ve seen soldiers say they prefer AK because of looser cleaning requirements or because they are familiar with the manual of arms. I’m sure there’s a million anecdotes of one or the other platform failing spectacularly but nonsense lore always makes its way to the public via anecdotes from conflicts.
>>65611115Mind posting the actual ratio then? I saw 10:1 which is believable, but then someone said it was 20:1 and I'm not sure that's as believable.
>>65607317long stroke vs didust cover mounting vs railssight radius16in bbl vs 20in
>>65611777oh and chin weld vs cheek weld
>>65611777you also forgot the fact that AR parts are made to such a precise level that they are completely interchangeable from gun to gun in a matter of minutes.
>>65610617>>65610625im republican :)))
>>65611043>Spamming "what blew up" in every thread on /k/ has alienated 90% of /k/ Yes.
>>65607319since the pro Ukraine janitor deletes any post that speaks poorly of Ukraine as off topic
>>65611039I assume he was implying that since they use that piece of shit they can be assumed to also still be using x39.
>>65610959The board is absolute shit now. I wish someone would drone strike the servers.
>>65611777Last point is not a valid point.
I've been playing a lot of Stalker 2, how's the Malyuk?
>>65613196Yes, you're in agreement with anon.You've just failed to process the accusation anon made that it is /chug/ doing it, not the pro-Ukraine posters, which you've learned by now include a fair portion (though not all) of the board.
>>65611777nothing wrong with long-stroke
>>65608446>>65608658>"AK-47"
>>65607291The only people hating on AKs are either autistic noguns who obsess over meaningless details their favorite youtuber said or autistic noguns who frantically screech at the mere mention of anything Russian
>>65608658>Obsolete>In 1947>Worked far better & was more easily produced compared to STG-44>Its only contemporaryOkay, retard.
>>65610615>best warYou weren't here for Syria. Welcome to /k/. Now go back to wherever the fuck you crawled out of.
>>65609079Did this guy survive?
>>65613632people prefer what they're apt to do, so if someone's apt only for short-strokes then we know how many "women" were hired for their "oldest job on the planet" capabilities
>>65616973>Syria General faggotGet back to your containment board, brownoid.
>>65610615>every single weapon that Russia has ever made is proven to be garbageHyperbole is not your friend, anon.
>>65617209>doesn't remember /k/ before it was all generalsYep.
>>65607291An automatic rifle that does its job.It's not great, but it's not bad either.People will continue to shoot and fight with it for a very long time.
>>65611777>16in bbl vs 20inAre we living in the 1960s dipshit?
>>65607291>I'm just curious if the AK-47 itself is still considered a 'good gun' or if the war has proven that it's actually shit nowThe AKM is a 67 year old design and it shows, heavy and inaccurate but good enough at closer ranges.The AK-74 is an improvment in every way but still shows it's age with a lack of rails.The AK-12 is legitimately good and is pretty much on par with every modern assault rifle.I hate that you have to rah rah Ukraine to talk about Russian kit in anything but negative terms, they still have some OK stuff and were the inventors of fiber FPVs.
>>65617525Uh oh... We have vatnik shills here fellas.Go back to /pol/ you zigger.
>>65617540Kek and fuck you anon.
>>65607291You are a massive faggot holy shitAnyways, it's funny that the AR vs AK discussion has basically turned into what's left of the 9mm vs 45 debate, where only the losers remain. This entire thread is, and I'm being generous here, guys comparing the two rifles who clearly only own AKs and don't know what the fuck they are talking about in regards to the AR. The only oddity here is the massive amount of yuros itt who don't own any guns at all and will call you a zigger if you speak to highly of the AK in a way that implies the Russians are using it in an vaguely ok manner, but otherwise they are adding retarded conjecture to this discussion. OP is a faggot, but I guess that's tradition
>>65607291The AK is on the way out, nobody wants em anymore, the American choice is going to be the dominating one shortly, America just cannot stop winning to be honest, M4s on moon and M4s on mars
>>65613739AKs are trash bro
>>65617226Careful, the trans mods and jannies might ban you for not calling him a zigger.
>>65613739Bro it's not 2012 anymore, update your software
