Up until recently I used to think cup hilts were faggy and looked rather gay. Swept hilts were cool and my guard can easily make up for any defensive deficiency inherent to its design.Come last weekend I sparred with somebody with a cup hilt at the our club and got mopped. He let me try it with a few other members and after a bit of practice, I got really good with it. I no longer had to move and dance around as much. The cup was basically a cheat code against anything that doesn't have a longer reach. My world was rocked. Was I just a faggot that fell for the memes of pretty hilts? Or is there something to cup hilts that I failed to see that doesn't make them all that great?
>>65607322>Or is there something to cup hilts that I failed to see that doesn't make them all that great?Cup hilts are great. They are the meta in any duel where no buckler, gauntlet, cloak, etc., max protection. That being said, some people are skilled enough that they can catch and bind an opponent's blade with a swept hilt (I'm not one of those people).
>>65607322Did you enjoy the fencing scene in Die Another Day?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAMGkUZulvw
>>65607322>Or is there something to cup hilts that I failed to see that doesn't make them all that great?Probably just mass. Which is not a massive deal if you're receiving and dealing thrusts, but a slash-centric environment wouldn't had liked such weight. When you read the history of 1XXX pattern heavy/light cavalry/infantry swords, it seems cup (and sheet metal) guards were occasionally criticized for being too weak to stand up the random rigors of battle and got replaced or reinforced with solid bars, which sounds strange to me, but I assume that they were made very thinly to compensate for their mass. Weight reduction would explain why many guards were compromised with decorative holes. Cup/sheet hilts are obviously superior to all alternatives for protection, but they would not have been so needed in a context where you would be wearing a gauntlet, even a leather one. Really solid knucklebows were a very popular design choice, which adds even more mass. Also cup hilts are really annoying to wear, the first thing any soldier issued a sword with a cup hilt would do is cut off the side facing their body to make it easier to wear, which is why a lot of swords were designed with really lopsided guards.
>>65607569very good scene
Hand hits are more a feature of indecisive fights, as most of these fights were indecisive it was a big deal, cutting someone's hand and making them beg was typically how a fight ended, in Italy even battles ended this way.But in mortal combat if you lost your blade in someone else's guard, they had a cut on their good hand and you had no weapon. So if you ever wondered why the scotish basket hilt dominated the cup hilt in a military setting, that's why.
>>65607897In a military setting you'll be wearing some sort of glove anyway. Even then, you had swords that had "almost" cup hilts like Pappenheimers which were well-regarded for the extra protection they provided while still retaining the capability to trap blades.
Seeing as it sounds like you guys know way more than I do - what do I look for when getting a “functional” sword, meaning one I can hack pumpkins with in the backyard and then put back for the wall, waiting for an intruder to massacre?
>>65607929Hack pumpkins? Something with a curved edge so you won't have to worry about edge alignment.
>>65607929I'm going to assume you don't want to accidentally buy a wall-hanger.There's no guesswork or analysis, swords intended to be used will be advertised as such. While there are properties/geometry that are expected from a proper sword, if you're being given enough information to infer if they're display pieces or not, you would already have told up-front what type of sword it is already. If there's no information given, it's either a wall-hanger or the shop is lazy, either way just change shops. Most sword shops are third-party resellers. Go straight to the manufacturer's site or find an online shop that bothers categorizing their swords by intended use and manufacturer. Alternatively, if you really can't be bothered, you can just go to a sword forum, find someone's review or a manufacturer's video of them hacking at something, call it good enough, and buy that.
>>65607960I like how you’ve introduced a new problem that never would have occured to me>>65607970Basically, yeah, I know knives and blades pretty well, I can sharpen chisels, planes, kitchen knives and straight razors to where they do what they should. Never had a long blade anything, and the display/wall-hanger category doesn’t exist for those.I was just in Toledo, Spain, and saw all the 40-100 euro crap in souvenir shops, but I also went to what’s meant to be one of the last actual workshops there. Their stuff looked decent to my eye, nothing stupid (anime or movie shit), prices 400 euro upward. Carbon steel, full tang (I think), shipped with “historically accurate edge” (their words). Does that sound reasonable, both for the price & wanting to avoid a wall-hanger? Same reason why I never bought a de-milled gun, even if I never go to war, just feels wrong.
>>65607322Cup hilt swords suck for wearing as a sidearm in day to day life, because the cup is fully circular and will always be bumping against you as you move around. The asymmetry of the swept hilt allows it to rest better against your side.
>>65608021>the cup is fully circularThis is not a requirement The cup hilt epee's I used in fencing class in college had asymmetric cups.
>>65607998That price region seems about right for a very cheap test-cutter, although I've seen a lot lower recently (not sure why, maybe the Indian workshops are having a fire sale. This is not a joke BTW, Indian smiths really do dominate the low-end market). Also for that price point they might just be a reseller, being a reputable European smith usually commands extremely high prices. But if it's really an actual workshop just ask, they're literally right there. They might try to scam you but chances are, no one wants to be recorded assuring a seller that a sword is not a wallhanger, only for it to break and maim the user. That would be a massive legal and reputation liability. Not stocking any dumb anime/movie shit sounds promising though. Note that even reputable shops will stock fantasy shit, it's just that they'll tell you upfront they're walhangers.
>>65608864I get it - their stuff goes from 450 to over 1k, plus scabbard, I’m talking about Mariano Zamorano, they’re part of the Toledo swordsmith association, talk about their master smith qualifications and so on. Half the shop is the factory floor, but not the forge, saw that much. I did see an old drill press that alone I would like to have, lol. And yeah, I get it that selling Game of Thrones and LotR can keep the lights on in some otherwise legit places, do what you must - way better they do that than go out of business. I was at some other shops where they were upfront about “the GoT swords sell well”, but then the guy was pretty evasive about who makes the better swords & his “top of the line” were carbon steel “templar”, which is a bit silly as there is no historic templar sword design. I’m already gone from Toledo - I asked, they Zamorano said they make them right there, all the same carbon steel, difference is some have plating & then how elaborate the crossguard and hilt are. A carbon steel two hander is about 500 euro, plus sheath (and shipping). So sounds kinda normal, eh? Honestly - I’m in a weird place in my life, so why not a fucking sword.
>>65608906>was pretty evasive about who makes the better swords & his “top of the line” were carbon steel “templar”No doubt about it, they're reselling those inexpensive swords from somewhere else. Their real workshop probably makes swords that sell for thousands of Euros. "Templar" is a really common word choice used for generic medieval swords churned out by the hundreds from a workshop. They make the same thing and slightly change the fittings. If they have an online shop just take one of their images and google it, you'll get a billion hits from other shops all selling the same thing, and at least one of them will mention where they sourced it from. If you want something inexpensive and in that price range, it is either going to be from India or China. Both countries dominate because of the low cost of labor and a supposedly continuous history of smithing surviving into the current day. Personally I would avoid Indian sources, the named Chinese sellers have a significantly better reputation than the named Indian sellers, and actually have a brand reputation worth protecting.
>>65608936The evasive was another shop - I’m not afraid to name names, Simon Artesania. Zamorano were upright - we make em here, here’s a buff dude who does it, made to order. From what you say the price is alright & I am pretty sure they’re legit, and if carbon steel and functional edge is not insane at like 5-600 euros, then great.
>>65608950Oh right. Yeah, I misread your post, I didn't notice that you was talking about another shop.
>>65608986 No worries, I appreciate you sharing your experience - I don’t have that.
>>65607703>mass>massive dealYou're getting stabbed carlos
>>65607322>I have no cupTell me again why I shouldn't picrel?https://www.kultofathena.com/product/balaur-arms-kriegsmesser-2-0/?attribute_pa_item-grade=standard-grade
>>65609159not even remotely the same kind of sword to warrant talking about in the same context
>>65610100I don't care about that poser shit, is it a good sword or not?
>>65610104>poser shityou have never and will never swing a sword at someone in your life, if you tried you'll just get shot, so just get whatever you want retard
>>65610631Just stop replying, if you don't know. You just look stupid.
>>65610631NTA, but the US is not the world, mate. In Europe I think in 98% of cases a sword will put you at an advantage. You’ll probably get fucked in court on grounds of proportional self defense however, but that’s a different story.
>>65610688>98% of cases a sword will put you at an advantageThis could be said for any 10" (25cm) dagger.
>>65610755Absolutely. With short knives I have a feeling you’re more likely to have it turned on you, with a sword I think the pure shock & instinct to avoid slashes will keep a distance if nothing else.
>Not basket hilt masterraceNgmi
>>65610902Basket hilts are more for military sabers.
>>65612670Citation required. "Imo" doesn't count.
What point of balance makes a sword you can actually do nuanced swing with? Around the crossguard?
>>65615340you need to look at pivot points instead, balance point won't say much by itself. then there are vibration nodes that affect how steady it feels during the cut and how much force do you feel in your hand.
>>65615413Well shit, all sounds really complicated - but also thank you.
>>65615340For most accurate replicas of a one handed cut-and-thrust sword, 4 inches from the guard seems to be the standard. I wouldn't go for 6 inches, unless you really like hacking things apart.
>>65614552European militaries by the end of the 19th century adopted basket hilts because they learned that their soldiers were more often just whacking the sword at their targets. Basket hilts offer more hand protection on the leading part if the hilt during the swing while the closed loop design made it less likely to slip out of the hand should the user lose grip.
>>65616333Rather than adopting basket hilts they just resumed using them after a short lull in their use in favor of the eastern fashion associated with the Hungarians and Poles during the Napoleonic period, with highly curved sabers with simple flat D hilts and associated uniforms to go with them.
>>65607929buy something from ColdSteel
>>65607929This is the best sword in here; >>65609159
>>65607322the spear has always been superior to the sword. of course, the layout of your home is to be considered but it is the spear and the shield which conquered the world.
>>65616749Take your meds. Nobody is talking about spears or home defense.
>>65616656Don’t take it the wrong way, but ColdSteel looks incredibly gay. That American kind.
>>65607929just get picrel
>>65617560I got one of those, even a Tramontina.
>>65617560Cold steel also sells several machetes with sword-style blade and handle shapes, all cheap and useful for chopping vegetation. I have the gladius and saber versions and they're fun, especially the gladius. It would 100% delimb, decapitate, and defenestrate.
>>65617232>That American kind.Um, you mean the BEST kind?
>>65617830Hell yeah, brother, 5.11, tanto blades and sodomy.
