Can't stealth be defeated with radars that use more power like gigawatt or petawatt?
>>65614987The F-35 is cute and very sneaky
>>65614987>Muh suoer duper radarStealth can be defeated by using eyebal mk.1
>>65614994>See that dot on the horizon?>The teensy tiny one you can barely make out, yes.>Go get my rifle. I'mma shoot it.
>>65614995Picture this. F-35 called to do an strafing run at their target. Why? Because like always US always overconfident in their ability to do SEAD/DEAD. While the aircraft fly low then suddenly blam!! An 40mm antiquated Bofross openfire and shot it down. Whose spot that plane? Eyeball Mk.I
>>65614998Sounds great. And then we post pictures with the caption, "Sorry, we didn't know it was invisible!"Delightfully devilish.
>>65614987Yes, because if you use enough power eventually you just have a death beam. Try giga-peta-watt.
>>65614998When's the last F-35 strafing run you can point to?
>>65614998>US always overconfident in their ability to do SEAD/DEADwe have a lot of experience
Depends on how you define “defeated” but the answer is almost certainly no.Because the entire point of stealth isn’t to be perfectly invisible all the time. It’s to be less visible than non-stealth aircraft. So even if you develop some sort of super radar that can detect an F-35 at five hundred miles, if a regular aircraft could be detected at two thousand miles, then stealth is doing it’s job. Plus, trying to brute force detection by cranking up the power comes with a lot of downsides.
>>65614987You don't even need more power, you just need a different wavelength.
>>65615025Nobody knows since F-35s are invisible.
>>65614998>reformer crying
>>65615227Wavelengths aint freeIf you go too high, you're not penetrating clouds. If you go too low, you're not traveling enough distance before dispersion.
>>65615227That’s fine for search radar, but it doesn’t work for fire control and guidance. And having Uber radar is kind of pointless if it’s only capable of telling you that there’s something vaguely somewhere over there. Maybe.
>>65614987People keep overestimating stealth, yes it inflicts a considerable negative effect on radars but stealth has diminishing returns, you need more and more stealthiness if you want to call it that in order to continue getting appreciable reductions to your detectability.
>>65615403wow it's almost like those two different systems ought to use different sensors huh
>>65614987Wouldn't that just create a fuckton of noise?
>>65615451Sure, but if you can’t get a lock with your fire control radar, then your search radar is meaningless. Actually, it’s worse than meaningless, it’s actively detrimental since search radar can be seen (read as: targeted) from farther away, and it’s going to make it bigger and less mobile, which means it’s more vulnerable to SEAD and DEAD aircraft.
>>65614992stealth fighters are gay
Stealth can be defeated by conventional radars if you fly too close to them. RAM coating and reduced RCS don't make a plane invisible, just harder to see.
>>65614998Yeah bro, tell that to the JDAM reducing you to particles kek.
>>65614987>Can't stealth be defeated with radars that use more power like gig-ACCCCCKKKKKKKK!!!!
>>65615214i dont care if i have to carry my irradiated testicles in a wheelbarrow i want to see that bird from 5000 miles out
>>65614987At what wattage does it start microwaving the operator below the radome?
>>65615214>Plus, trying to brute force detection by cranking up the power comes with a lot of downsides.Such as?
>>65614998More 3rd world brown hubris
>>65614987Both Venezuela and Iran had new, top-of-the-line chinese radar systems. It, uhh, it detected an F-35 alright - each time it gets blown up, an F-35 is nearby!
>>65615778For one, all that power needs to come from somewhere. Which means your radar sets and launch vehicles are going to be way harder to move, and take much longer to tear-down. And while more power theoretically means longer range, it means you can be seen at much, much longer range because physics. And since radar horizon is a thing, all the enemy needs to Dow is chuck a few low-flying cruise missiles at it and it’s fucked.
>>65615806Yeah, okay Sanjeet. Whatever you say.
>>65614987Not really, unless you plan to keep your radar hardwired into a dedicated power plant just to power it. And even then it's not going to help you much as munitions will always out-range your radar's maximum detection range for a stealth platform. Take for example the Russian S-400 92N6E (Grave Stone) Engagement and Fire Control Radar which is claimed to have an average power of 12 kilowatts, and a peak power of 500 kilowatts with an estimated detection range for an F-35 (RCS of 0.001m^2) of 13 miles. In order to just double that detection range (26 miles) you would need to increase power output by 16 times (2^4) because maximum detection range is proportional to the fourth root of the transmit power. Even increasing the power to 1 gigawatts, you would only increase you detection range by ~6.7 times, or ~87 miles. You had to increase your power 2000 times to increase your detection range from 13 miles to 87 miles, you now have to deal with all that extra heat from pumping in a gigawatt of power into your same size aperture, and figure out how you're going to supply that radar with a 24/7 feed of a clean, pure 1+ gigawatts of power or your signal to noise ratio is going to be atrocious. Nothing is 100% efficient and the radar system has all kinds of auxiliary equipment that will need power too. So, again, you're going to need to basically hard wire it to a dedicated power plant that can supply it with ultra clean and stable power along with designing a cooling system to deal with the extreme amount of heat that pumping in 1+ gW of power into a radar comes with. You would need something like the US AN/FPS-85 EWR that is the size of a warehouse and even then you're going to be fighting basics like radar horizon, etc. All that just for an F-35 to launch a missile from 100 miles away and destroy your radar anyway. This is literally the very reason the US went all in on stealth, and once everyone else figured it out they are too.
>>65615727THAT was what the wonder wall meant???friends don't let friends listen to Oasis>>65615025I can't point to an F-35, but a Super Bug did take some hits coming out of a strafe run some months ago in Iran.
>>65614987>Do the Russian approach of MOAR POWAHHHHHH and have zero sophistication>As we know Russian radars are amazing anti stealth platforms given the yoinkening or the decapitatingYour signal to noise goes to shit, good luck with those power electronics as well.
>>65615472That's exactly what we need now. Noise, and a whole lot of smoke. And money.
>>65615789say what you want but chinks always bring the bants
>>65614992>The F-35 is cute and very sneakymust not be... neither Iran nor ukraine are clear of EAD..a handful of F35 SEAD/DEAD sorties over the ukraine/Russia border would have prevented 10's of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of deaths that came at the end of glide bomb strikes....why was this not done?even if you lost 2 or 3 F35's over the course of the SEAD campaign, it would have saved literally $BILLIONS of dollars that were otherwise spent fighting on different terms...literally pennies on the dollar cost/benefit ratio there
>>65616306> why was this not done?Because the US isn’t at war with Russia?
>>65616323ok ziggroid>send literally any other weapon system EXCEPT the one that could put an end to the whole thing with a handful of SEAD missions...i truly dont get it...explain this logic to me like im 12yo.F16's, Gripens and Rafale?>fineand early Christmas gift from uncle sam in the form of a handful of SEAD/DEAD sorties to preclude the glidebomb menace entirely>NOPE sorry!
>>65614987I don’t think people understand how stealth works. There’s different frequencies like low and high. Low is used like a searchlight and high is like a laser. Stealth is specifically designed to defeat high frequency radar to deter weapons grade locks. You can technically spot stealth aircraft with low frequency radar but now you detect stuff like moister, dust and everything else just floating in the air. It’s what Doppler radar is used to track clouds. So you have to know when and where an aircraft is to even find it, to actually detect it. I’m over simplifying it. Now you add the US’s very sophisticated electronic warfare capabilities and there isn’t really an air force or air defense that can really stand up against the US. It’s like a magic enemy that can appear out of nowhere and drop a bomb on you.
lol this thread>ackshulllly....stealth isnt some magic invisibility cloak and doesnt matter that much....it just has to do enough to make you smol enough to create doubt, a shitty lock or hide you from the front...theyre going to find you anyway using (some method) so its just gotta be "good enough" to survive to the stand-off launch pointlol soooooooooo apologies....when?
>>65616355Why are you posting a non stealth fighter?
>>65616361
>>65616361>>65616368see>>65615214seems like "good enough" is all it takes
>>65616381>seems like "good enough" is all it takesEvidently not, as Ukraine still has all their SAMs systems, and Russia can't fly the SU-57 past their own border in fear of it getting shot down.
>>65616404its loyal-retard doesnt seem to mind flying past their border tho....it even wanders off on its own sidequests and everything..
>>65616335> explain this logic to me like im 12yo.Okay, I will.The US is not at war with Russia. And the US doesn’t want to risk giving their cutting edge aircraft to a not-actually-ally-ally that has had an issue with corruption and risk having said aircraft fall into the hands of a potential enemy.
>>65616381Correct. “Good enough” is all it takes.The Su-57 is not good enough.
>>65616419>The US is not at war with Russiabut it sends everything else, including fighter jets..and the US wouldnt be "fighting Russia" it would be precision striking Enemy Air Defenses, silently fleeing the scene and yukking it up during the CNN segment on the event afterwardsthis one sole act of virtual non-aggression would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives from glide bomb attacks and high-value targets from ALBM's>>65616422>Correct. “Good enough” is all it takes.>The Su-57 is not good enough....but no nato air defense ever detected it..despite it making confirmed sorties into their airspace..
>>65616426>but it sends everything else, including fighter jets..>and the US wouldnt be "fighting Russia" it would be precision striking Enemy Air Defenses, silently fleeing the scene and yukking it up during the CNN segment on the event afterwards>this one sole act of virtual non-aggression would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives from glide bomb attacks and high-value targets from ALBM's>>65616422>...but no nato air defense ever detected it..despite it making confirmed sorties into their airspace..
>>65616426> but it sends everything elseBecause everything else is not bleeding edge combat aircraft.> it would be precision striking Enemy Air DefensesYes. That’s called “fighting Russia”
>>65616434Also, I don’t think the US ever actually sent combat aircraft. I’m pretty sure other NATO allies sent aircraft and the US sold said allies F-16’s and F-35’s to backfill their forces.
>>65616335>it...explain this logic to me like im 12yoBit off topic but, open 'hot' war between the United States of America and the Russian Federation risks nuclear escalation. We don't like that Russia is pushing into Ukraine, but we try to keep our response limited so as to keep the situation from getting much more out of hand. That's the primary reason.
>>65614987Stealth is about reducing detection range not becoming invisible, even the shittiest radar will pick them up when they are close enough.As for insane power levels you run into issues like cooling and power supply, at that point you have basically made a giant microwave.
>>65616434>Because everything else is not bleeding edge combat aircraft.why does this matter if they cant be detected or stopped anyway....like is that LITERALLY not the point of stealth air-craft?>be bleeding edge black based-craft, fly directly up enemies ass..turn 360 and go homeits not called "fighting Russia" its call blowing up inanimate radar sites, flipping the bird and hitting the after burners>>65616453I dont get it..if youre willing to let a nation be destroyed to prevent nuclear war, why bother with the entire war in the first placeif player-A makes the stakes,>"Player B loses or I literally nuke you all"your choice is to either let Player-B lose, or call the obvious bluff and do everything you can to stop him, knowing hes not going to nuke the planet over player fucking Byou Trumpers are more and more deranged as time goes onyou will excuse an oxcart full of shit, then ask for more + a bigger spoon, i swear
>>65616474> why does this matter if they cant be detected or stopped anywayIt doesn’t.When you’re at war.And for the third goddamn time, THE US IS NOT AT WAR WITH RUSSIA.
>>65616476>the US has to declare war through congress to eliminate a handful of fucking radar sites with precision stealth strikesnot one fucking war in the past 100 years has been 'official' or 'declared' yet we routinely B2 stealth bomber strike fucking HOUTHIS>HOUTHIFUCKS get B2 strikes, one after the other...but ukraine....? nahhhhhhh jack shit nothingits like everyone of you squirted out of Trumps anus itselfsame logicsame brown iq levelall of it
>>65616474>I dont get it..if youre willing to let a nation be destroyed to prevent nuclear war, why bother with the entire war in the first placeNot complicated, but also not the answer you want to hear: Nations want to help Ukraine but they also don't want to completely upend the global status quo and destroy the idea of MAD. If the US attacked Russia directly (which it'd have to do if it wanted to hit them with F-35s) that would be an act of open war. This is seen as very different from selling Ukraine weapons to defend itself. By the US, by Ukraine, and most importantly by Russia who still whines about even that, but not enough *so far* to do much more than that. So while things may escalate slowly as we send Ukraine more and better equipment, they'd escalate MUCH faster if the US started hitting Russia themselves, and far more dangerously. tl;dr: We wanna help Ukraine retain its sovereignty but we're not willing to burn everything down around us to do it. So we do it slow and careful so Ukraine at least has a chance.
>>65616481Nobody ever said anything about declaring war, you fucking retarded jeet.
>>65616426>...but no nato air defense ever detected it..despite it making confirmed sorties into their airspace..the only sortie it ever made was over the red square before Ukraine forbid them from holding their cuck parade
>>65616410yeah, its wreckage revealed that it's made entirely from shitty aluminum and painted with normal ass paint and therefore has as little to do with stealth as any other russian aircraft
>>65616410>>65616404>>65616381i wonder if russia ever regrets not spending insane money on R&D on stealth tech software and coatings. That and a effective SEAD DEAD weapon/sensors and Ukraine would actually have been in trouble but I guess they havent learned lessons the US did all the way back in Vietnam
>>65616306>Why was this not done?Because we're not interested in saving slavs, you dumb shitheel. We're interested in making both nations broken and dependent for the next thousand years so that the US can remain dominant without the Europeans trying to get off the leash. The best way to do that is to make sure the war destroys both nations so that American business concerns can buy everything up and sell Russian energy to Europe, rather than allowing Europe to annex it or make a deal with Russia after the war that'll help get their economy back on track.
>>65616514Ukraine would have been in trouble if it weren't for the western world propping it up.
>>65616530The AT sent before the invasion and in the first month made a big difference but I still think the push to Kyiv would have stalled due to logistics breakdown.Since then the most important aid hasn't been arms but money to keep their economy from collapsing when their exports were blockaded for the first 2 years. The one partner they would have been 100% fucked without is Chinese drone manufactures, no one else is making LiPo's, brushless motors or flight controllers at anywhere near the rate required.
